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Post by olinecoach61 on Jun 18, 2009 9:29:23 GMT -6
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Post by coachguy83 on Jun 18, 2009 10:53:16 GMT -6
Those guidelines are wonderful if every state is willing to start practice in June.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Jun 18, 2009 13:21:56 GMT -6
Heat related issues are a big deal with me.
As a coach in Florida, it doesn't get cool until October, now cool is relative-I'm talking consistantly in the low 80's.
We could only dream of a heat index in the 90's.
I do everything I can so we stay away from "heat related issues."
We have giant fans with a mister spray on them,
I have a kiddie pool full of cold water in the shade along with a water hose if needed.
We have a shaded area because we are in the woods, that we let the linemen work in for their drills (hogs like the shade)
I have a written schedule everyday with the water breaks written down, we follow our schedule.
We keep as close an eye on the kids as we can.
We practice at night when we start on August 10th.
We also have a heat index sensor, that we call hot-as-hellometer.
When that hit index hits 115 we get the kids off the field and practice in the shade. (we have plenty of drills)
When it hits 120 we stop practice, take and take a break till it drops.
I also send lots of info home before practice starts in August about climatization. (if that's a word)
We have a plan of climatization that we have used for years.
I send it out to the families during the Summer.
(believe it or not one of them is having their sons stand outside for a certain length of time)
Even with my high regard for the dangers of heat,
We've never had anybody play us and say, "wow you guys are a bunch of sissy's." We are known as one of the hardest hitting teams in our conference. And we win our share of games.
So just because we take heat related issues seriously and our "hogs" practice in the shade sometimes-it doesn't mean we are soft.
We don't have to prove how "tough" we are by refusing kids water. There is no defense for saying that now, somebody gets hurt-you are "in a world of hurt."
OJW
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Post by windigo on Jun 18, 2009 14:30:29 GMT -6
In defense of the coach in Kentucky that according to the press "refused his kids water". 4 of his players went for water after conditioning rather than bringing it in for a break and he told them to get their asses back. That was the "refusal."
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Post by colmesneilfan1 on Jun 18, 2009 15:41:06 GMT -6
The UIL guidelines are sufficient....we won't be doing away with two-a-days anytime soon down this way.....As long as you practice early in the morning before the heat hits and late in the evening after it begins to dissipate and as long as you give PLENTY of water/gatorade breaks and monitor your players closely, you will have no problem.....
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cmpd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 136
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Post by cmpd on Jun 18, 2009 15:54:41 GMT -6
What about the players (and their parents making) taking the appropriate measures to be well hydrated before practice. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by superpower on Jun 18, 2009 19:25:15 GMT -6
What about the players (and their parents making) taking the appropriate measures to be well hydrated before practice. Just my 2 cents. "If he's peeing yellow, hydrate the fellow." Wisdom from Coach Hugh Wyatt at our summer camp in 2006. |
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Post by superpower on Jun 19, 2009 6:12:09 GMT -6
By the way, those new guidelines appear to be too cautious, IMO. Most coaches know to be safe and use common sense in dealing with heat issues, but we also need to prepare the kids to play in the heat in the early season games.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 19, 2009 6:57:56 GMT -6
As usual, one unfortunate incident will now bring about tons of meaningless legislation. I think the bigger issue should be are there MORE or LESS heat related incidents than 25-30 years ago. Than 50-60 years ago. Unfortunately, there are no data to investigate this issue. I am sure we have our own theories, starting with video games, satellite dish, and medicating rather than parenting the child.
But we don't look for causes as much anymore. We look for bandaids, and feel good rules and programs (NCLB). We don't attack the illness, we address symptoms.
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Post by windigo on Jun 19, 2009 10:01:54 GMT -6
As usual, one unfortunate incident will now bring about tons of meaningless legislation. I think the bigger issue should be are there MORE or LESS heat related incidents than 25-30 years ago. Than 50-60 years ago. Unfortunately, there are no data to investigate this issue. I am sure we have our own theories, starting with video games, satellite dish, and medicating rather than parenting the child. But we don't look for causes as much anymore. We look for bandaids, and feel good rules and programs (NCLB). We don't attack the illness, we address symptoms. I would believe that the rate is much higher today than yesterday. Linemen are far fatter yes but the real change is the change in diet. And kids today eat a far less hydrated diet. And that diet is key. The notion that you can keep your players hydrated in a 2.5 hour practice is bull. The body can only absorb around 70oz of water in that time but its going to give up about 130oz. Outside of practice they have to replace the water they lost and sadly many don’t eat and drink well enough to do that. Then the kid goes home and drinks soda which leaches water from the body and eats chips which have no real hydration value. Yes all these things eaten by past generations but not to the same degree as today. When I was young you bought a 6 pack of coke. Do they even make 6 packs anymore? Today the buy 24 packs and they are gone in a day to 2 days. |
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Post by coach4life on Jun 19, 2009 10:29:29 GMT -6
When we were kids we were usually outside doing something in the heat during the summer. I grew up playing in Florida and we did 3 a days in the fall, as did most everyone else, and rarely if ever did you hear about a kid falling out from the heat. Now days everybody has AC, most kids have computers, PS3s, whatever, to occupy their time in the nice cool AC. They have to get out in the heat ad do stuff before practice starts to get their bodies tuned to handle the heat, that's key, along with what they are putting in the bodies as noted by windigo.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Jun 19, 2009 10:52:06 GMT -6
You are so right guys, good stuff. coach4life is right about the "culture." However, there's really no reason to howl at the moon, we have to deal with things as are. But getting kids acclimatized is what we have to do. In a related but somewhat different issue to me is-using running as a punishment. I've always felt that running was so very important to what we do that we have to "find ways" to run. Every series of sprints we do, I say everytime-Running is NOT a punishment it's to help you win, among other things.  Choosing our expressions wisely: I'm not saying that I'm not guilty, I'm just thankful I haven't been caught in a bad situation like the coach in this article. Also, now more than ever, we have to be wise with our choice of words. We can fuss all day long about the litigious generation that we line in-won't matter, what IS-IS. Unwise choices of words, and unwise choices of expressing himself is really what got this coach in the article in trouble. People heard him say that they were going to run until somebody quit, and then that they couldn't have water. Man, you are done. If that is heard by bystanders, even if nobody gets hurt, you are going to get hauled into the front office. We know that running makes you better, tougher, and more prepared, but that guy just set himself up. He's not only facing liability issues, he's facing criminal charges. He's not just looking at losing his house, he's looking at the "big house." We can only hope we don't find ourselves in similar situations. That's why I put as many "barriers" between me and something like that. A word about nutrition, what 5085 said is very true. I had a kid 2 years ago go through what I though was a head-related issue. Everything about his situation looked like he was in trouble with the head. We had our sideline doctor there, thank goodness, he grabbed him and put him through our prearranged system with little response. I was really shaken-up by it. Come to find out that it wasn't heat at all, it was a nutritional issue. It was 7PM at night, we had just finished our 2 hour practice and the kid had eaten nothing all day long but a handful of macaroni and cheese at noon. Parent issues. OJW |
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Post by airman on Jun 19, 2009 15:42:28 GMT -6
a friend of mine goes on the following schedule to avoid the heat.
6 am to 8 am practice
8 to 9 off and hydrate
9 to 11 practice.
6:30 to 9 pm practice
keeps them out of the heat of the day and keeps them from going out all night as well.
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Post by colmesneilfan1 on Jun 19, 2009 17:45:59 GMT -6
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Jun 19, 2009 18:25:24 GMT -6
The state of Florida stepped in a couple of years ago and bumped practice back, now it's August 10th this year.
I don't really know what 10 days in Florida is going to do for you, but at least we didn't start on July 31 as was scheduled.
The year before last we started on August 1st, but played in August. And it was one of the hottest Summers that year.
Just brutal.
My school doesn't start until AFTER labor day. Most schools in Florida are in school nearly 3 weeks before we do.
Then, we don't play until after Labor Day now, that means we practice for a month. That is plenty enough time to get us ready. So I haven't had 2-a-days for 4 years now.
Back in 1980 when I started varsity ball, we didn't get a month of practice. It was important THEN that we had 2-a-days.
Fall football practice started the week before school started in those days. We would have a week of 2-a-days, then a week of school before our Jamboree. Then-another week before the first game. You HAD to have that week of 2-a-days or you wouldn't be ready. We even had 3-a-days one year, but that really didn't work well. So the next year, we were back at 2-a-days.
This is probably how most states still work, so they need 2-a-days.
OJW
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trojan
Junior Member
[F4:wingtcoach.com] [F4:wingtcoachdon]
Posts: 494
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Post by trojan on Jun 19, 2009 19:57:42 GMT -6
But the title makes me wonder - "NEW" Heat Standards??? I'm confused. Why are there NEW heat standards? Global warming... |
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Post by superpower on Jun 20, 2009 5:04:43 GMT -6
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Post by indian1 on Jun 20, 2009 6:56:30 GMT -6
We have a bunch of kids who work outside in the summer (farming, construction, landscaping ect.) Those guys never have any trouble with the heat. They are acclimated to it because they are out in it for 10 hours a day everyday. The ones who struggle are the fat @$$es who sit inside in the AC all summer long.
We have water on hand for our kids at all times with unlimited access. Had one issue with a kid (one of the AC junkies who never made a summer workout) who go a little woozie one day that's it.
Like coachD said there is no data that shows more or less heat related problems today compared to the past. I don't have any data but I think its a matter of acclimation. In the past not every building was AC and people got used to the heat so being outside in it was not such a big deal. Most people now are acclimated to AC so that makes it twice as bad when they have to go out in the heat AND workout.
I think the answer is get outside and sweat a little bit every day so you get used to the heat. Hell I do that just to make sure I'm ready for the heat when two a days start.
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Post by coach4life on Jun 20, 2009 7:17:55 GMT -6
You are so right guys, good stuff. coach4life is right about the "culture." In a related but somewhat different issue to me is-using running as a punishment. I've always felt that running was so very important to what we do that we have to "find ways" to run. OJW There are 3 things we can control - how well we block, how well we tackle, and whether or not we're in better condition then they are. No matter how big or how much stronger they are, we can still out condition them and that could be the edge. That's why we run. When the kids are dragging around and acting like they'd rather be playing Madden, I put it in the context of having the mental discipline to be present and give it your best. If practice is lagging and guys aren't with it's time to go off: "We are not being mentally disciplined enough to pay attention to what we are doing. You will play like you practice, if you check out during a game like you are now it can get you or a teammate hurt. In that case we're going to work on the discipline required to stay on task. If we can't get with it and execute our drills (or really whatever we are working on) we are going to work on something that allows us to get things right, starting with the simplest aspect of the game because (loudly) I will not let your lack of attention to detail keep you from falling short of your potential! This is not what we planned to do, but we have to get this right so we can get back to where we were and get that right. You must be mentally tough and disciplined in this game, it all starts there." Usually happens once, maybe twice somewhere between the end of the first and second week, then rarely happens after that. You get in your conditioning early, the kids get the message, and you usually only have to do it once. We were going to do some conditioning anyway, so we just got that out of the way, got a message to them, and we just get back to the schedule. Best of all any parents hearing it understand what it's about so you don't have to worry about the nattering naybobs talkin' about the big-bad-meanie coach punishing their little Jimmy. |
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Post by coachguy83 on Jun 20, 2009 16:45:35 GMT -6
I know when I was in school we only had one heat issue that I can remember and it happened to be me. I had been working out all summer, was in pretty good condition, but all of a sudden I stopped sweating and started feeling cold. It was early August in Illinois so it was about 95 but the humidity was a b!tch. I really felt like I had done something wrong and wasn't prepared. Turns out it was because I had a sinus infection and wasn't breathing right.
Good coaches know how to watch their players in all conditions. In fact my line coach felt horrible for days after because he didn't notice a problem with me sooner. In my case it was only a mild case of heat exhaustian and my temperature was only off by a degree or two. I cooled down and was fine.
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Post by jhanawa on Jun 20, 2009 18:44:23 GMT -6
We coach in Arizona. I don't think a nation standardized heat standard makes sense, Arizona and Alaska have different views on heat....LOL.....I think common sense and a strong emphasis on proper hydration is key. We give unlimited water and emphasis diet and hydration as well as avoiding the monster drinks, caffeine and soda. We want our kids drinking water throughout the day, we make them carry water bottles around throughout the day in classes. Heck its a dry heat anyway, I walked 36 holes when it was 122 degrees here and never thought anything of it....I'll take dry heat over Midwest 95 degree/95 percent humidity anyday.....LOL
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2009 18:49:28 GMT -6
Very good point. I'm from IL, but have visited Vegas a couple times. 110-115 out there feels much better than 85-90 with high humidity in IL!!
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Post by coachbleu on Jun 23, 2009 14:36:57 GMT -6
We have mandatory workouts all summer. We offer 21 sessions from 6-8 in the evenings. The kids have to make 18. I also come in on some off days when the kids have conflicts.
During a session, we lift for an hour, then go on the field for individual work for 20 minutes, then condition for 35 minutes. The kids get to wear their helmets. We can do this all summer long (except for the mandatory dead-weak). I don't understand why they don't allow this in all leagues. I know in some states, the coaches can't require ANY summer participation. What in the world do they expect to gain from this? If their kids go lay around and eat potato chips in the AC all summer, they probably are going to have heat issues when 2-a-days start.
What they should do is make summer conditioning mandatory for a certain number of days. That would get the kids acclimated to the heat and we wouldn't have to worry so much about all this stuff.
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Post by kcbazooka on Jun 23, 2009 15:51:44 GMT -6
We are one of the states where you cannot have mandatory anything in the summer. You are not even supposed to keep track of attendeance and according to state rules you are not supposed to call the kids to encourage them to come to weightlifting - it puts too much pressure on the kid.
not in a real good mood today - just found out our school board has changed a ruling on the athletic policy. We are harsher than the state rules for academics - but before last night an ineligible student could practice with the team and then be eligible at midterm - now they can't practice and of course if they get the good grades at midterm they still have to go through the 14 days of practice before they play. Pretty much wiped out any student going through that for football or any other fall sport.
Of course we are still expected to beat everybody on the schedule...
I need a cold beer or six...
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Post by coachbleu on Jun 25, 2009 13:47:56 GMT -6
...or 12!
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Post by Coach JR on Jun 25, 2009 15:28:55 GMT -6
What they are though, is fodder for law enforcement and plaintiff lawyers to be used against a coach that doesn't adhere to them, and has a player die. |
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Post by formrbcbuc on Jun 25, 2009 15:59:00 GMT -6
Heat is a major issue in AZ, I was just wondering if anyone who has coached in the southwest or any place that has extremely high temperatures how you handle water breaks? I was thinking of doing it like we did in college, guys could get as much water as they want during team drills and have water breaks every 10-15 min (I believe) during Indy period. I will be dealing with Freshmen most likely, are there any special concerns with these players.
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Post by coachbleu on Jun 26, 2009 8:06:09 GMT -6
Heat is a major issue in AZ, I was just wondering if anyone who has coached in the southwest or any place that has extremely high temperatures how you handle water breaks? I was thinking of doing it like we did in college, guys could get as much water as they want during team drills and have water breaks every 10-15 min (I believe) during Indy period. I will be dealing with Freshmen most likely, are there any special concerns with these players. In south TX, we were fortunate to have a full-time trainer. He had several portable water fountains and had them positioned near our indy drills. The kids could get water whenever they needed, so long as it didn't interfere with the drills. Also, find shade if you can. Have water breaks in the shade. Practice drills in the shade if possible. Get a couple of tents if you have to. We moved our water coolers to under our covered batting cage. It's much cooler there and we have power to run mist fans. |
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Post by formrbcbuc on Jun 26, 2009 13:03:17 GMT -6
Thanks, the place I'll be coaching is a decent sized schol so I hope it will be run very smoothly. While everyone always says AZ is a dry heat, football season and moe importantly tow-a-days happen during monsoon season, othing like 98 degress and 70-80% humidity during practice.
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