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Post by hlb2 on Jun 12, 2009 14:35:35 GMT -6
...young men how to care? I know that sounds weird, but our biggest enemy right now is the fact that we are eaten alive with apathy. Can you correct it? Can you teach kids to care? If so I need some help, any ideas?
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Post by coachbdud on Jun 12, 2009 14:44:09 GMT -6
i dont know... Trust me i definitely know where you are at right now. I coach at my alma mater so i have seen it as a player and as a coach. Guys give up before they even begin, or think things dont matter. We have been turning things around slowly (5-5 last year, most wins in like 15 years, came a couple plays away from being a playoff team) Our kids are starting to care more, but honestly i feel this is a make or break year, if things go well, we will be at least a 7 win team and make playoffs, and i think things will continue to improve here. if we have a bad season this year, i think the school will be done... I really feel this is our make our break year for getting through to our kids.
Give the kids whatever incentives you can. Usually this apathetic feeling comes from years of embarassing defeat. I dont care how bad you are, there is always someone worse. I dont know how your league and schedule work out but try to find some horrible team you guys can beat week 1 to boost your kids spirit. Get them into a really bad 7 on 7 tourney or league. Basically just try to find little things your kids can be succesful at to get them into it. Once they sniff success they will begin to want more and more. After being so close to playoffs last year some of our kids have really bought in. Some kids just do not care and never will, but most are easily manipulated... if they get a taste of success they will hunger for more. hope this helped a little
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coachriley
Junior Member
"Tough times don't last; Tough people do."
Posts: 406
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Post by coachriley on Jun 12, 2009 17:30:41 GMT -6
hlb, I really feel for the position you are in now. My high school alma mater is the same way, we use to be a powerhouse in the state but now they are lucky to have a couple wins in a year. It also doesnt help that they have the toughest district in our classification. But I second trying to find them some weak competition the first week and if possible the second week. The 7 on 7 thing would be a great idea. I think that some kids probably want to care and win, but they follow all of the other ones that dont give a damn. I think if you are able to sell them on anything about the team, down the smallest detail, get them going for something small and build it from there. Hope I helped, good luck to you
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Post by coachjm on Jun 12, 2009 17:48:09 GMT -6
Raise expectations and accountability, the higher the expectations the higher the achievement this holds true in all parts of education. If people aren't held accountable to existing expectations then there really is not any expectations. You won't make a ton of friends intially using this method but over the long haul when the expectations become the norm you will be fine. Also when your not winning sometimes it is necessary to rebuild the infrastructure of your feeder programs then have patience while they build (something I'm very poor at, being patient) If the expectation is for the kids to be there, working hard, with enthusiasm and they are held accountable when they are unwilling to do any of this and as coaches you are willing to model this behavior you may have a few less boys because of the increase in demands but in the end you will have a group who has invested part of themselves into their experience and therefor will expect to get something out of it.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 12, 2009 18:32:48 GMT -6
At our place we say.."the coaches drive the enthusiasm" Think about how you act...if you and the staff is feeling like you are not going to have too many wins or are going to have "one of those years" again then the players see that. I think that if you care...that will rub off on the young men.
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Post by champ93 on Jun 12, 2009 19:33:26 GMT -6
At our place we say.."the coaches drive the enthusiasm" Think about how you act...if you and the staff is feeling like you are not going to have too many wins or are going to have "one of those years" again then the players see that. I think that if you care...that will rub off on the young men. Agreed. Model the behavior you want, be there all the time, be 100% prepared, laugh with them, get after them without making it personal when needed, build a relationship with them
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Post by coachinghopeful on Jun 12, 2009 21:26:43 GMT -6
I don't believe you can teach them how to care, but you can get them to "learn" how to care. Part of it comes from setting a good example, being optimistic, and letting them know that you care so they should too. Psychologists have determined that people are often much more loyal to people than they are abstract concepts like "caring" or even "pride." Getting them to see that you care and that you're doing everything you can to make them better is the first step in getting them to trust and want to please you. Once they get a little taste of success as a group, whether it's a better record, a playoff spot, knocking off an opponent no one thinks they can, or just not getting blown out in games they're used to losing, they'll want more. Then you just need to build some leadership.
Of course you can do other things too... find out who your most caring guys are, regardless of talent, and hold them up as examples and explain WHY you like these kids and want others to be like them. These will be your leaders and the real core of your program. Reward them with gear, awards, or even simply shower them with praise in front of the others. Letting the other kids know why you hold some of their teammates in high regard is important, otherwise they might just think that mediocre G who busts his tail in everything he does is coach's pet because of some arbitrary reason like his family connections or something.
Also, talk a lot about pride: pride in themselves, in their teammates, and in their school. Hammer home that what happens on Friday is just a reflection of the pride these kids demonstrate by working hard in the offseason and practice. Then work to raise each kid's standards, giving positive reinforcement whenever you see a kid doing something good. Losers are the ones who don't try or care about what happens. Winners are the ones who take it upon themselves to make the sacrifices and take the lumps necessary to break through to success. Another word for "winner" is "man." Who wants to be a loser?
Apathy really just another word for "quitting." It's a reflection of people feeling helpless and cynical about changing things, so they stop even holding out hope to try. They don't think they have the power to make a difference, and feel embarrassed and afraid at the failures they see are inevitable, so they retreat within themselves. They may even see attempting to change things as unpleasant--this is the key component I've seen in failed weightroom programs. You've got to get them to link their personal efforts with success and find ways to reward the individuals who have the guts to put it all out there. They've got to see that they are just as worthy of success and have just as much reason to be confident as anyone else.
If you can make it fun for them in the process to overcome the perception that work=unpleasant drudgery best avoided (a common attitude these days), you're well on your way. That way, win or lose, the players are at least getting a fun experience out of the sort of things that will make them better in the long run, which is a much bigger part of building and sustaining enthusiasm, pride, and dedication than "winning the big one." If they have more fun hitting the weights (as opposed to playing grab ass in the weightroom) than hanging out at the mall or playing videogames, you've got 'em.
Another thing about apathy: with apathy usually comes the impression that you are either innately endowed with the power to make a difference (athletic talent, "winning tradition," "a good program" etc) or you're not. This, of course, is BS. Some players may be blessed with incredible raw talent, but any coach on here can tell you stories of those guys washing out because they had no pride in what they did with it. You've got to get these kids to see that even if the other team is loaded with 6'5" guys who can bench press trucks and run 4.4, that doesn't necessarily make them better football players and it certainly doesn't make them a better football team than a focused, prepared, hard nosed group who insists on paying the price to become better and refuses to lose.
Let them know you believe in them. Don't ever let them think otherwise. In high school I played on teams that actually had quite a bit of talent, yet consistently lost games to less talented teams. Our HC at the time would tell anyone who would listen (including the press) that we just couldn't win those games because we lacked the numbers, talent, and speed to compete. Talk about a motivation killer! Then he'd go in the locker room and try to give us the rah rah talk about how we could do whatever we wanted.
As far as other suggestions... try to scrimmage a local powerhouse before the season starts in a game that doesn't count. If the kids can hang, they'll gain lots of confidence, which is a key part to moving out of apathy. If they don't, no one is keeping score and you can usually get away with leaving the starters in against the scrubs for a few impressive-looking series. When you do the film, you can accentuate the positives as something to build on.
While I've focused on positive reinforcement, don't be afraid to point out mistakes and correct them, but do so in a way that doesn't tear the kids down. If they sense you don't care when something's wrong or that your optimism is fake, you'll lose them.
Good luck, coach. Instilling the right attitude is THE single most important part of building a successful program.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jun 13, 2009 4:04:48 GMT -6
My two cents on this:
some kids only care when they think success is going to come easily. Most kids at my school evaluate our chances for a successful season and if we "arent going anywhere" they dont bother to sign up to play. To them "caring" is done by discussing the chances of success, not by getting in the wt room to help control their own destiny.
i think part of the issue is the whole "trophies for everyone" concept that has been around for the last 20 years or so. The idea that just being on the team is as good as being a top notch athlete who dedicates himself to greatness.
Last night one of my seniors stood up in front of the team, voice cracking, tears in his eyes, telling his peers how much this year meant to him. telling them how hed added over 100 lbs to his squats and 70 lbs to his bench. talking about how much stronger and faster hed made himself....hes one of TWO SENIORS on the team. he cares. I am afraid the others who are not playing simply evaluated our chances for success and decided not to show up.
I didnt do anything different with this boy than I did the others, he simply did what I asked him to do, hes done the work, hes going to continue to do the work, ultimately the more work he puts in the "harder it is to surrender"
another way to approach it is to constantly stress team and family, get them to think of each other and their relationship to each other. in some cases they wil buy in, in some they wont.
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Post by chuge325 on Jun 13, 2009 7:23:23 GMT -6
Just a thought - Find ways for little victories - sometimes apathy is a defense against the appearance of failure. When they succeed, in the wieght room, in the class room, in the community or on the field, hold their successes up very high. Celebrate loudly. The ones who truly don't care - won't. But the ones who are apathetic teenagers (sounds redundant) will flock to the flame of success. Eventually, that means wins.
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Post by brophy on Jun 13, 2009 7:33:47 GMT -6
It is easy not to care when you haven't invested in anything.
Start them invested in outcomes (weight room), and they'll "care"
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Post by fbdoc on Jun 15, 2009 18:14:14 GMT -6
In the words of Frosty Westering -
"They don't CARE how much you know, until they know how much you CARE."
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Post by Coach Huey on Jun 16, 2009 11:44:31 GMT -6
lesson i had to learn ... "they'll never care as much as you do"
with that, just continue to reach them in a variety of ways. for most, it is not so much apathy toward football or work, it is they lack that sense of urgency about it. "football will be forever. or, it doesn't take that long to get into shape... i'll do it tomorrow. we will win by the time i'm a senior.... "etc. in their mind, they do care. what they lack is the perspective on the urgency about it. that is where we try to focus... sense of urgency... "it takes this long to master a skill... lets win every year not just your senior year.... you live for 75 years, you play ball for 4 so do all you can now" ... etc.
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Post by awhowie on Jun 16, 2009 12:21:17 GMT -6
Nicely written coachinghopeful.
I have had situations like this, once inheriting a defense when no-one else wanted to coach them. They hadn't won in five years. I treated the players with firm respect. They appreciated the guidance and the fact I cared about them and about their success. We won enough games to get into the play-offs. Their enthusiasm and motivation grew when they had enough direction and respect.
What I have learned for sure is that the players can learn to care about each other. Dr. Gordon Neufeld has done a lot of work on "attachment". Kids will attach, but to whom they attach is one thing you can control.
I have had pre-training camp retreats, usually one or two evenings, that were mainly games and video sessions. I had players do skits in which they ripped their team mates, and mostly me. Great laughs and great connections resulted. Once they care about each other, they can get it together for each other. One of my former assistants, now an HC, runs a sleep-over at the school during two-a-days just to get the guys together for at least one night.
The other end of the extreme is the Lou Holtz approach. He's turned around so many programs at the college level. He makes himself an enemy of the players by demanding more and more, resulting in the kids uniting against him at times. As long as they get together, he doesn't care. He pushes their buttons until they get to the level he wants them at. He gives them praise in public, and honesty in everything.
Ultimately, your own personality will have impact. Be yourself, your best self, and find ways for the players to enjoy each other together. Keep your schemes simple and attainable until they grow enough as a team for more.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2009 6:37:34 GMT -6
Be careful with the Lou Holtz thing. I think we sometimes need to remember high school is on a completely different level than college. Lou picked his kids, we don't get that luxury. Uniting the kids against you, may get you fired, seen it done too many times. However, I do agree with the way Lou did it at HIS level. He IMO was a very good coach no doubt.
Duece
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jun 17, 2009 7:20:08 GMT -6
Good point Coach
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