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Post by baldeagle on May 24, 2009 21:30:29 GMT -6
I'm heading into my second year as OC coming off a dissappointing season. I've read both Dave Cisar's and John T. Reeds materials which are both fantastic. Most likely going to use Daves program, seems to have a heck of a track record but Reed is very insightful and brutally honest. Just looking for some insight on Reed and differences between the two systems. Thanks
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Post by khalfie on May 24, 2009 23:29:05 GMT -6
Forget the differences... The magic lies where they are similar.  |
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tedseay
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Post by tedseay on May 25, 2009 4:52:40 GMT -6
I'm heading into my second year as OC coming off a dissappointing season. I've read both Dave Cisar's and John T. Reeds materials which are both fantastic. Most likely going to use Daves program, seems to have a heck of a track record but Reed is very insightful and brutally honest. Just looking for some insight on Reed and differences between the two systems. Thanks Coach: "Black Jack" Reed has some strongly-held "contrarian" opinions on how to coach youth football. Dave Cisar has some strongly-held "contrarian" opinions on how to coach youth football, AND a sterling track record as a coach and administrator. I know where I'd trust my money...  |
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Post by davecisar on May 25, 2009 8:41:25 GMT -6
I'm heading into my second year as OC coming off a dissappointing season. I've read both Dave Cisar's and John T. Reeds materials which are both fantastic. Most likely going to use Daves program, seems to have a heck of a track record but Reed is very insightful and brutally honest. Just looking for some insight on Reed and differences between the two systems. Thanks Reeds info is very good However most youth coaches are visual and prefer to see what they are trying to learn via video as well as text, that's why we have videos and full season DVDs. Drawing up a play and talking about it vs: Drawing up a play and talking about it PLUS video install of each play, and game footage of that play being run in 8-10 different games with 3-4 different teams Detailed blocking rules, implemenntation etc Lots of very simple adjustments- and when to run them Mine has the full spin, half spin and detailed wedge series,and we pull, very detailed blocking etc Reeds materials are very good, but he does not believe in pulling or motion ( no full or half spin) and puts his weakest player as a wideout to make it a 10vs 10 game. Most Single Wing coaches, myself included see the beauty of the offense in the ability to snap to all 3 backs, Reed snaps to just 1. Most SW coaches like mysel utilize a blocking back and fullback both as well as a wing. In order to play and compete in competitive leagues IMHO you need more than 10-10 etc, we even use a Jet Series for our older kids with a couple of Spread concepts interweaved into a high percentage passing package. We have consistently averaged in the mid 30's without ever scoring more than 47 points. We have won numerous league titles, tournaments and state titles with it. Reeds teams won games with defense, special teams and practice organizations, they rarely averaged over 20 ppg and I dont think they eve won a league title etc. Great clock managmnt and youth ball insight, but not big offensive numbers etc We update most of it every year and are very current, having head coached 3 teams last season and 3 more this and 11 full seasons of coaching SW. The more you run it, with different teams different leagues etc IMHO the better you get at making it better. I apologize if this comes off as negative, not my intention, just pointing out the differences between the two very different systems. We also do about 25 public clinics and have answered as many as 40 e-mails from a single coach needing help/clarification etc |
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Post by baldeagle on May 25, 2009 10:11:01 GMT -6
Dave, I agree with everything you've said. One of the reasons I posted was because of the lack of info on Reed other than his website. I just found his books to be a very good read and was looking for feedback.
I also don't like the mmp flanker however tiring out a good cornerback who is giving you trouble with a couple of fast kids seems like it could work on occasion.
If anything I found that next to your book Reed's was right up there as far as information, details and thought provoking ideas. Thank you for the response.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 11:59:20 GMT -6
No brainer...Cisar, hands down
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Post by coachdoug on May 25, 2009 19:39:21 GMT -6
Well, I don't use use either of their systems, but I've read a bunch of both of their materials and I've met Dave Cisar personally, and tried to communicate with Reed. Here is how I would sum up the differences: - Cisar has an astronomically better track record. Reed's teams have done well, but I'm not sure he's even won a conference championship, whereas Cisar's teams have gone something like 98-5 over an 8-yr period in several different conferences in a couple different cities.
- Cisar makes himself much more available. You can always find Dave here and he's always very responsive to anyone that asks his help or asks any questions about his system and/or materials (it does help to be respectful, though ... LOL). When I've emailed Reed questions, I've typically gotten answers along the lines of, "Buy the current edition of my book." This is after I've already told him that I've spent about $200 on several of his books, including the one in question, but the material on the subject question is only in a revised edition of one of his books that came out since I bought it.
- Reed is extremely arrogant and condescending. Even in his own books, and talking about his own players, he'll say things like, "Players this age are too stupid to handle this concept." Some people may appreciate how "direct and honest" he is, but I find it appalling. Conversely, I have never known Cisar to be anything other than respectful and courteous to other posters, coaches, players, and his audience in general. Dave may cite his W-L records and some other stats too often for some, but if that's his worst fault, I'll take him in a heartbeat over Reed.
As coachkell, said, "No brainer ... Cisar, hands down." |
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Post by mahonz on May 25, 2009 21:26:30 GMT -6
I'm heading into my second year as OC coming off a dissappointing season. I've read both Dave Cisar's and John T. Reeds materials which are both fantastic. Most likely going to use Daves program, seems to have a heck of a track record but Reed is very insightful and brutally honest. Just looking for some insight on Reed and differences between the two systems. Thanks I'll be John T. Reed brutally honest.... About 5 years ago I was camping with the family. It was raining and I needed some dry kindling to get a fire going. Digging around the camper I found an old copy of Reeds SW book. In all of the years I owned that book, kindling was all it was ever good for. Didnt think twice about burning it. You should ask for a refund from Reed. Going from memory here, there is nothing in that SW book you want to use if you ask me. I can echo Doug here. I did send him a few emails many many years ago and all he wanted to do was sell more manuals...too include real estate investment materails. Does his SW book still include a laundry list of other non-football related items for sale? I too apoligize if this comes off negative as I am sure he has helped many...somehow...somewhere...I just have never heard any of them speak up??? disclaimer- I do not own any Cisar materials (but should)...and am now Reed free (for good). Coach Mike |
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Post by Coach Bruce on May 25, 2009 21:35:37 GMT -6
I on the other hand DO own Cisar materials..alot of them. He has helped me very much as a young, learning coach. I have sent several emails and all were answered in detail until I was completely satisfied. He even offers to speak over the phone to help.
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Post by eickst on May 25, 2009 22:44:32 GMT -6
I own both, have read both, and would go with Cisar. I'm not saying that Jack doesn't make sense, but with Cisar's material you get a complete plug and play system for the most part, down to the last detail.
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Post by casec11 on May 26, 2009 7:50:42 GMT -6
I'm heading into my second year as OC coming off a dissappointing season. I've read both Dave Cisar's and John T. Reeds materials which are both fantastic. Most likely going to use Daves program, seems to have a heck of a track record but Reed is very insightful and brutally honest. Just looking for some insight on Reed and differences between the two systems. Thanks I'll be John T. Reed brutally honest.... About 5 years ago I was camping with the family. It was raining and I needed some dry kindling to get a fire going. Digging around the camper I found an old copy of Reeds SW book. In all of the years I owned that book, kindling was all it was ever good for. Didnt think twice about burning it. You should ask for a refund from Reed. Going from memory here, there is nothing in that SW book you want to use if you ask me. I can echo Doug here. I did send him a few emails many many years ago and all he wanted to do was sell more manuals...too include real estate investment materails. Does his SW book still include a laundry list of other non-football related items for sale? I too apoligize if this comes off negative as I am sure he has helped many...somehow...somewhere...I just have never heard any of them speak up??? disclaimer- I do not own any Cisar materials (but should)...and am now Reed free (for good). Coach Mike Great Post I have heard many others with this sentiment. Cisars hands down..... just think about this... how long did it take for you to get an answer from Dave when you first posted this question? |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2009 16:14:18 GMT -6
Again, i'd take Daves' stuff without any second thought . In defense of Reed though, (i'll be the Devils advocate) you have to remember his Big thing is being "contrarian". On several occasions he stated he wasn't a fan of the single wing, he was a fan of anything different from he normally saw . He just used it because it was different, if it was popular he would use something else. I dont agree with that, but it's just what he beleives. Everything else said about the guy is true...I think the only reason the SW he used had what limited success it did BECAUSE it ws alien in the league he coached in.
Now his clock management book is another story...incredible
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Post by mahonz on May 28, 2009 23:26:21 GMT -6
Again, i'd take Daves' stuff without any second thought . In defense of Reed though, (i'll be the Devils advocate) you have to remember his Big thing is being "contrarian". On several occasions he stated he wasn't a fan of the single wing, he was a fan of anything different from he normally saw . He just used it because it was different, if it was popular he would use something else. I dont agree with that, but it's just what he beleives. Everything else said about the guy is true...I think the only reason the SW he used had what limited success it did BECAUSE it ws alien in the league he coached in. Now his clock management book is another story...incredible OK...Beelzebub  I’ll play. He coached youth ball...what...5 seasons...is not a Single Wingnut...and is selling a SW book nationwide as a guide for youth coaches with plenty of his own borderline opinions attached. Examples: No pooping in the woods stance. I remember that one. After I watched Bellevue destroy DLS I started teaching my youth linemen pooping in the woods stances with even heels. A 100% improvement. He also seemed to be into teaching us youth coaches about scale. I dont remember how he laid it out exactly but as an Architect I understand every possible means of scale ever invented. I had no flippin clue what he was talking about. He claimed its death to platoon at the youth level. I dont know how to not platoon and am still alive and kickin'. I emailed him on this issue and got double talk and buy more as a response. I think his point was...do not ever coach a team with more than 18 players on it...like any of us have full control over our numbers. In his defense he knew I was calling him out on something...but he should not put his opinions out there as gosple unless he can defend them. His willingness to play a kid at flanker and ignore him the rest of the season...since he does not believe in the forward pass. Gee whiz what fun. Why not just rum em till he pukes everyday so he will quit early and get a refund. Goes back to platooning for me...you HAVE to develope players at the youth level too. No better way to do that than giving them a real chance in the games. He ranks his O-line last in importance. Thats when I knew I was dealing with a less than average youth coach. We have all made that very mistake and have paid for it...and learn to put the O-line at the top of the list of importance. I guess he was being "contrarian" in that respect. I dont know about his play designs because I got about half way through the book and...well...threw it away in my camper for some reason instead of the trash. I dont know personally but I have heard very good things about that Clock Management book but the reality is...many youth leagues go by play count and not clock because it is easier to manage for the league. Now what about his GAM? I have heard its an off tackle sieve of a defense without some major adjustments....while were on the subject. Any experience with his GAM? Dude...you and I are about to run the flexbone at the youth level for the first time. Let us both thank the football Gods Reed never had that book for sale too. ;D Coach Mike |
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Post by morris on May 29, 2009 7:58:03 GMT -6
"No pooping in the woods stance. I remember that one. After I watched Bellevue destroy DLS I started teaching my youth linemen pooping in the woods stances with even heels. A 100% improvement."
What exactly is that?
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Post by bobgoodman on May 29, 2009 9:57:38 GMT -6
"No pooping in the woods stance. I remember that one. After I watched Bellevue destroy DLS I started teaching my youth linemen pooping in the woods stances with even heels. A 100% improvement." What exactly is that? It's what Cisar's referred to as "frog": 2 point crouch. |
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Post by mahonz on May 29, 2009 11:38:06 GMT -6
"No pooping in the woods stance. I remember that one. After I watched Bellevue destroy DLS I started teaching my youth linemen pooping in the woods stances with even heels. A 100% improvement." What exactly is that? Coach As Bob stated its a frogger stance. Butt a bit lower than the shoulders, feet under or slightly outside the armpits, knees slightly rolled out, heels even, very little weight on the down hand. Its a difficult stance to hold for more than 6-7 seconds but it allows them to explde in any direction more easily...and they are looking straight at the defense instead of looking out of the tops of their helmets. I saw Bellevue use this stance...especially their center which forced the QB to really crouch down to where his butt was nearly on the turf. Looks funny but it works very well. Coach Mike |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2009 13:55:59 GMT -6
Again, i'd take Daves' stuff without any second thought . In defense of Reed though, (i'll be the Devils advocate) you have to remember his Big thing is being "contrarian". On several occasions he stated he wasn't a fan of the single wing, he was a fan of anything different from he normally saw . He just used it because it was different, if it was popular he would use something else. I dont agree with that, but it's just what he beleives. Everything else said about the guy is true...I think the only reason the SW he used had what limited success it did BECAUSE it ws alien in the league he coached in. Now his clock management book is another story...incredible OK...Beelzebub I’ll play. He coached youth ball...what...5 seasons...is not a Single Wingnut...and is selling a SW book nationwide as a guide for youth coaches with plenty of his own borderline opinions attached. Examples: No pooping in the woods stance. I remember that one. After I watched Bellevue destroy DLS I started teaching my youth linemen pooping in the woods stances with even heels. A 100% improvement. He also seemed to be into teaching us youth coaches about scale. I dont remember how he laid it out exactly but as an Architect I understand every possible means of scale ever invented. I had no flippin clue what he was talking about. He claimed its death to platoon at the youth level. I dont know how to not platoon and am still alive and kickin'. I emailed him on this issue and got double talk and buy more as a response. I think his point was...do not ever coach a team with more than 18 players on it...like any of us have full control over our numbers. In his defense he knew I was calling him out on something...but he should not put his opinions out there as gosple unless he can defend them. His willingness to play a kid at flanker and ignore him the rest of the season...since he does not believe in the forward pass. Gee whiz what fun. Why not just rum em till he pukes everyday so he will quit early and get a refund. Goes back to platooning for me...you HAVE to develope players at the youth level too. No better way to do that than giving them a real chance in the games. He ranks his O-line last in importance. Thats when I knew I was dealing with a less than average youth coach. We have all made that very mistake and have paid for it...and learn to put the O-line at the top of the list of importance. I guess he was being "contrarian" in that respect. I dont know about his play designs because I got about half way through the book and...well...threw it away in my camper for some reason instead of the trash. I dont know personally but I have heard very good things about that Clock Management book but the reality is...many youth leagues go by play count and not clock because it is easier to manage for the league. Now what about his GAM? I have heard its an off tackle sieve of a defense without some major adjustments....while were on the subject. Any experience with his GAM? Dude...you and I are about to run the flexbone at the youth level for the first time. Let us both thank the football Gods Reed never had that book for sale too. ;D Coach Mike Hey, I don't condone the guy, just saying that he only chose that offense because it was different...at least those were his words, I'm in the same boat with you on this one. I don't even call that thing a Single Wing ..though he had some good ideas, like running a corner to death, rotating flankers, I've used it myself Unfortunately I have a ton of experience with his GAM, I dumped that thing after 3 seasons with it, the reason.......The off tackle, oh yeah and the sweep, and the short pass, and the fact that it was a real footrace after 8 yards.... That would be the book I would burn. I traded it years ago, to some "tool" for Homer Rice on triple option football...who woulda thought. |
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Post by coachdoug on May 29, 2009 18:28:39 GMT -6
Well, as long as we're taking Reed to task, I'll chime in on the GAM, which I've had a couple of seasons of experience with. It is fundamentally unsound for a few reasons: - No defender is responsible for the C gap, leading to the problems with the off-tackle area frequently cited when discussing this defense. Yes, the LBs usually end up aligned in that area, but they have man-coverage responsibility on either a TE or a back, so it's asking a lot for them to control the C gap and follow a receiver in coverage.
- The DEs are the only force players, but Reed has them boxing deep in the backfield making it very easy to just kick them out of the play and continue running the ball inside the DE, but outside everyone else.
- The mirror players are supposed to line up inside their assigned receivers in man coverage, and play press, but also follow the ball and come up in run support on running plays. When asked how the heck they're supposed to do that, Reed's coaching point is simply, "Don't worry about it, the kids will figure it out."
- For the reason above, this defense is very susceptible to play-action passes. If the offense makes any kind of decent fake at all, it is almost impossible for the LB to stay with the TE on a quick out. I tried a bunch of things, and I could not come up with any way to stop this play in a GAM defense.
- Since there really isn't any safety, there isn't any deep player as a last line of defense against gadget plays or anyone breaking free. Basically, if any one player fails in his responsibilities on any given play, it could lead to a TD.
Even his time management book, which has received high acclaim (apparently even Bill Walsh praised it), is full of unsound concepts and ommissions. For instance, Reed seems to be saying that anytime a team has the lead (even in the first quarter) it should go into a full slowdown. Conversely, anytime a team is behind (even in the first quarter), it should go into full hurry-up mode. Seriously - in his book he criticizes the Seahawks for not going to a full hurry up down 3-0 in the second quarter of Super Bowl XL. Obviously, this is just foolish. Most coaches would agree that for most of the game, you're far better off just running your offense and trying to score as many points as possible. There is a point at the end of each half when time management issues become a higher priority, but Reed gives no indication when that point is. I would think that this piece of information would be one of the most important issues to address in a time management book, but Reed doesn't even mention it. He also completely ignores the fact that there may be game planning reasons to be in a slowdown the entire game regardless of score (like if the other team has much better athletes and you'll be sure to lose a shootout). If the Giants had followed Reed's advice in Super Bowl XXV, they surely would have lost to the Bills that day, and Scott Norwood would probably have had a long and succesfull NFL career. When I pointed all this out to Reed via email, his only response was to blame his son for some minor error that I had also mentioned and just ignored everything else. |
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Post by mahonz on May 29, 2009 22:10:42 GMT -6
Doug
…and Reedco laughs all the way to the bank.
I don’t get it. Many quality youth coaches give a thumbs up and recommend his systems.
Like coachalbert in this thread. That dude is a smart coach.
I think Reed has simply tapped into a vast market of idiots….myself included. Why his products have lasted this long is a complete mystery. I could be way off base here because the pile of crap I purchased was many years ago. Maybe he has improved with each addition?…if he does indeed do updates on occasion.
Still…you create piles of crap for the masses early in the endeavor and still have the staying power 10-15 years down the road? Too many guys like you inform me things are basically the same as they ever were. Besides just how long has it been since he coached youth ball? 15 years?
Every time a coach posts up a Reed question a Queen songs pops into my head because another one just bit the dust.
Oh well...its that time of year. Maybe enough shoppers will see this thread and call Dave.
Coach Mike
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Post by mahonz on May 29, 2009 22:16:25 GMT -6
OK...Beelzebub I’ll play. He coached youth ball...what...5 seasons...is not a Single Wingnut...and is selling a SW book nationwide as a guide for youth coaches with plenty of his own borderline opinions attached. Examples: No pooping in the woods stance. I remember that one. After I watched Bellevue destroy DLS I started teaching my youth linemen pooping in the woods stances with even heels. A 100% improvement. He also seemed to be into teaching us youth coaches about scale. I dont remember how he laid it out exactly but as an Architect I understand every possible means of scale ever invented. I had no flippin clue what he was talking about. He claimed its death to platoon at the youth level. I dont know how to not platoon and am still alive and kickin'. I emailed him on this issue and got double talk and buy more as a response. I think his point was...do not ever coach a team with more than 18 players on it...like any of us have full control over our numbers. In his defense he knew I was calling him out on something...but he should not put his opinions out there as gosple unless he can defend them. His willingness to play a kid at flanker and ignore him the rest of the season...since he does not believe in the forward pass. Gee whiz what fun. Why not just rum em till he pukes everyday so he will quit early and get a refund. Goes back to platooning for me...you HAVE to develope players at the youth level too. No better way to do that than giving them a real chance in the games. He ranks his O-line last in importance. Thats when I knew I was dealing with a less than average youth coach. We have all made that very mistake and have paid for it...and learn to put the O-line at the top of the list of importance. I guess he was being "contrarian" in that respect. I dont know about his play designs because I got about half way through the book and...well...threw it away in my camper for some reason instead of the trash. I dont know personally but I have heard very good things about that Clock Management book but the reality is...many youth leagues go by play count and not clock because it is easier to manage for the league. Now what about his GAM? I have heard its an off tackle sieve of a defense without some major adjustments....while were on the subject. Any experience with his GAM? Dude...you and I are about to run the flexbone at the youth level for the first time. Let us both thank the football Gods Reed never had that book for sale too. ;D Coach Mike Hey, I don't condone the guy, just saying that he only chose that offense because it was different...at least those were his words, I'm in the same boat with you on this one. I don't even call that thing a Single Wing ..though he had some good ideas, like running a corner to death, rotating flankers, I've used it myself Unfortunately I have a ton of experience with his GAM, I dumped that thing after 3 seasons with it, the reason.......The off tackle, oh yeah and the sweep, and the short pass, and the fact that it was a real footrace after 8 yards.... That would be the book I would burn. I traded it years ago, to some "tool" for Homer Rice on triple option football...who woulda thought. K LOL...now I remember you beating that anti GAM drum all of these years. So what gives? Why do so many youth coaches recommend this stuff? Are they just hitting an easy button for a rookie who asks? Coach Mike |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2009 22:23:12 GMT -6
I think his offense and defense books are crap...his coaching ideas other than that, (playcalling, clock management, special teams...etc..) I think are unique, and great reads. Like I said before, his clock management book changed the way I coach, I can only say that about a few written sources. Other than the few great ideas, he has come up with, and his Clock manage ment book.. I don't really care for all the other stuff
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Post by khalfie on May 30, 2009 11:47:09 GMT -6
Coaches...
C'mon now...
Why does it have to be an either or?
Before there was a Cisar... there was a Reed... to be honest... I think a newbie coach should go Reed before Cisar... it makes you appreciate the details.
Its like anything in life... if you get too much too soon, you won't appreciate it. Reed gives you just enough to be more successful than those not willing to do research... that success will motivate you to find more answers... such as Cisar, and then you really appreciate your learning and growth.
You have to walk before you run... Reed was walking... Cisar is running.
Again... I think both bring value to the game... sure one is intermediate while the other is advanced... but it takes tough times to be able to recognize and appreciate the good times.
IMHO ;D
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Post by coachdoug on May 30, 2009 11:57:00 GMT -6
Coaches... C'mon now... Why does it have to be an either or? Before there was a Cisar... there was a Reed... to be honest... I think a newbie coach should go Reed before Cisar... it makes you appreciate the details. Its like anything in life... if you get too much too soon, you won't appreciate it. Reed gives you just enough to be more successful than those not willing to do research... that success will motivate you to find more answers... such as Cisar, and then you really appreciate your learning and growth. You have to walk before you run... Reed was walking... Cisar is running. Again... I think both bring value to the game... sure one is intermediate while the other is advanced... but it takes tough times to be able to recognize and appreciate the good times. IMHO ;D Good point. Reed does at least provide a framework and some basic pointers on practice organization and such. It's not bad stuff for a new coach to start with. I guess what really bothers me about Reed moreso than his materials, is his arrogance and his condescending attitude. I mean this guy actually said in one of his books that he's qualified to coach in the NFL - he's barely a competent youth coach, but in his mind he's ready for the NFL. Unbelievable. |
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Post by khalfie on May 30, 2009 12:55:22 GMT -6
Good point. Reed does at least provide a framework and some basic pointers on practice organization and such. It's not bad stuff for a new coach to start with. I guess what really bothers me about Reed moreso than his materials, is his arrogance and his condescending attitude. I mean this guy actually said in one of his books that he's qualified to coach in the NFL - he's barely a competent youth coach, but in his mind he's ready for the NFL. Unbelievable. That's all I'm saying Doug... I don't know Reed personally... but just think about this... Just a few months ago, there were guys posting on here, about how Cisar's SW doesn't work. Can't remember the coach, but he was making excuse after excuse, about how he did this and that... but it still didn't work. Dave answered a few posts and then told the guy to call him or something... and that's special... but are we expecting all coaches to go that far for every guy that buys a book? And though emotion is hard to read in a post... what if you are confronted by a few condesending slapdicks, and get tired of answering the same old questions? Not defending Reed... but if he has become a jerk, especially after reading the few aforementioned posts... I could understand. More so, back to the coach that couldn't get the SW to work for him... he's exactly the guy that got too much information too soon. He was looking to go undefeated when he should have been looking to just put a practice plan together... And I know you are all saying... well Dave gives you the perfect practice plan... and sure he does... but how does one recognize that, until you falter with some bad plans. Reed just tells you to put a plan together, and gives you a copy of his, to make yours from... some general rules and thoughts... Coaches mess with that... get some success, but then generate questions that needf to be answered. Dave answers those questions. Which is what I guess my point is... Reed gets you to asking the right questiions, and Ciszr answers them... But if you go straight to Cisar, you'll have all the answers, but won't know why they are the right answers... and like the earlier coach, begin to question those answers, simply because you don't know the importance of the question. |
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Post by tiger46 on Jun 1, 2009 9:53:06 GMT -6
"... But if you go straight to Cisar, you'll have all the answers, but won't know why they are the right answers... and like the earlier coach, begin to question those answers, simply because you don't know the importance of the question..." I'm not trying to be argumentative. But, it is absolutely possible to pick up Dave's system, run with it and, never look back. I was one of them. The how's & why's are explained nicely. Also,- and, I know this is not a featured bonus of Dave's material because he has no control over any of it- I can think of at least three different forums that Dave posts on regularly. And, there's a single link at Dave's site that makes it above par. www.directsnapfootball.com. That site has its own links page. With all of the coaches sharing their knowledge at those various sites, there's almost no information that a prospective SW coach at any level can't find. A new coach can see that Dave is on the money with his answers because he posts publicly and is scrutinized publicly on forums with other experienced youth and SW coaches. If they disagree with him, they're not shy about letting anyone know. Personally, I've read very little of Reed's SW material. I know that I don't need to read it. It would be a waste of my time. To be fair, I did read and use his GAM for one season. But, back to sw; a new coach does not need to Reed's material, imo. Dave's material covers the stuff Reed's covers and it also answers the follow-up questions a new coach is going to have. There's no need to suffer through a mediocre season by being limited to what Reed gives. It's about value. I had $50 to spend. I was buying gold. One guy offered me a 1lb. sack and tells me, "That's mostly wet mud. It has some fool's gold mixed in, too. But, you can find some real 24k gold nuggets in there, too." The other guy offered me a 1lb sack and says, "That's all pure 24k gold nuggets. I've already sifted the mud out, seperated the fool's gold and only filled this sack with the pure nuggets. It's verified by me and many others. But, if you're ever not satisfied, here's where I hang out. And, here's how to contact me." I know which one I bought. |
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by tedseay on Jun 1, 2009 11:21:33 GMT -6
Even his time management book, which has received high acclaim (apparently even Bill Walsh praised it), is full of unsound concepts and ommissions. For instance, Reed seems to be saying that anytime a team has the lead (even in the first quarter) it should go into a full slowdown. Conversely, anytime a team is behind (even in the first quarter), it should go into full hurry-up mode. Seriously - in his book he criticizes the Seahawks for not going to a full hurry up down 3-0 in the second quarter of Super Bowl XL. Obviously, this is just foolish. Most coaches would agree that for most of the game, you're far better off just running your offense and trying to score as many points as possible. There is a point at the end of each half when time management issues become a higher priority, but Reed gives no indication when that point is. I would think that this piece of information would be one of the most important issues to address in a time management book, but Reed doesn't even mention it. He also completely ignores the fact that there may be game planning reasons to be in a slowdown the entire game regardless of score (like if the other team has much better athletes and you'll be sure to lose a shootout). If the Giants had followed Reed's advice in Super Bowl XXV, they surely would have lost to the Bills that day, and Scott Norwood would probably have had a long and succesfull NFL career. When I pointed all this out to Reed via email, his only response was to blame his son for some minor error that I had also mentioned and just ignored everything else. Doug: Thank you! I never could see what the fuss was about Reed's clock management book. If you want to understand clock management, and don't mind exercising your brain, buy Homer Smith's book: tiny.cc/LMEm5 |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2009 18:02:48 GMT -6
Even his time management book, which has received high acclaim (apparently even Bill Walsh praised it), is full of unsound concepts and ommissions. For instance, Reed seems to be saying that anytime a team has the lead (even in the first quarter) it should go into a full slowdown. Conversely, anytime a team is behind (even in the first quarter), it should go into full hurry-up mode. Seriously - in his book he criticizes the Seahawks for not going to a full hurry up down 3-0 in the second quarter of Super Bowl XL. Obviously, this is just foolish. Most coaches would agree that for most of the game, you're far better off just running your offense and trying to score as many points as possible. There is a point at the end of each half when time management issues become a higher priority, but Reed gives no indication when that point is. I would think that this piece of information would be one of the most important issues to address in a time management book, but Reed doesn't even mention it. He also completely ignores the fact that there may be game planning reasons to be in a slowdown the entire game regardless of score (like if the other team has much better athletes and you'll be sure to lose a shootout). If the Giants had followed Reed's advice in Super Bowl XXV, they surely would have lost to the Bills that day, and Scott Norwood would probably have had a long and succesfull NFL career. When I pointed all this out to Reed via email, his only response was to blame his son for some minor error that I had also mentioned and just ignored everything else. Doug: Thank you! I never could see what the fuss was about Reed's clock management book. If you want to understand clock management, and don't mind exercising your brain, buy Homer Smith's book: tiny.cc/LMEm5Read them both, Smith's is an excellent book both can get complicated, and both provide sound advice. However from what I understand Smith revised his original book to include ideas he borrowed from Reed, for example the QB Sweep slide play, which was never mentioned in his 1st book. Reed states he sent a copy to Smith, then certain that idea appeared in the revised edition..Reed does make mention of this in his own books. |
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Post by mahonz on Jun 1, 2009 19:12:52 GMT -6
Even his time management book, which has received high acclaim (apparently even Bill Walsh praised it), is full of unsound concepts and ommissions. For instance, Reed seems to be saying that anytime a team has the lead (even in the first quarter) it should go into a full slowdown. Conversely, anytime a team is behind (even in the first quarter), it should go into full hurry-up mode. Seriously - in his book he criticizes the Seahawks for not going to a full hurry up down 3-0 in the second quarter of Super Bowl XL. Obviously, this is just foolish. Most coaches would agree that for most of the game, you're far better off just running your offense and trying to score as many points as possible. There is a point at the end of each half when time management issues become a higher priority, but Reed gives no indication when that point is. I would think that this piece of information would be one of the most important issues to address in a time management book, but Reed doesn't even mention it. He also completely ignores the fact that there may be game planning reasons to be in a slowdown the entire game regardless of score (like if the other team has much better athletes and you'll be sure to lose a shootout). If the Giants had followed Reed's advice in Super Bowl XXV, they surely would have lost to the Bills that day, and Scott Norwood would probably have had a long and succesfull NFL career. When I pointed all this out to Reed via email, his only response was to blame his son for some minor error that I had also mentioned and just ignored everything else. Doug: Thank you! I never could see what the fuss was about Reed's clock management book. If you want to understand clock management, and don't mind exercising your brain, buy Homer Smith's book: tiny.cc/LMEm5Ted I was hoping this thread would bring out some coaches that have had some success with Reeds stuff over the long haul. Coach Mike |
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Post by mahonz on Jun 1, 2009 19:17:07 GMT -6
Coaches... C'mon now... Why does it have to be an either or? Coach baldeagle asked...so he received some long overdue honest answers. References to Reed pop up everywhere. I guess its a real mystery as to why. Coach Mike |
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Post by davecisar on Jun 1, 2009 19:50:26 GMT -6
Doug: Thank you! I never could see what the fuss was about Reed's clock management book. If you want to understand clock management, and don't mind exercising your brain, buy Homer Smith's book: tiny.cc/LMEm5Ted I was hoping this thread would bring out some coaches that have had some success with Reeds stuff over the long haul. Coach Mike Im not sure of hsi name, he goes by something like IHRose < I think his name is Casey Keaster or something like that is a coach from California who posts on the the main site here often. He has run the Reed system with good success and now is an assistant HS coach, He swears by it, you may want to ask him. |
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I’ll play. 