|
|
Post by coachwilley on May 5, 2009 18:53:30 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by mariner42 on May 5, 2009 19:57:17 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by endersgame on May 5, 2009 20:03:22 GMT -6
I'm thinking a guy who's actually studied psychology should be examining him.
|
|
|
|
Post by khalfie on May 5, 2009 21:27:46 GMT -6
Psychologist? Wow... How about we investigate the owners of the International Polo Grounds? 21 horses dead in 12 hours? Anyone going to jail for that? Need any psychologist there? One owner was crying because he had whipped his mare, for not performing earlier, before she died... Hmm... no jail time for whipping the horse... to death?  |
|
|
|
Post by coachjoe3 on May 5, 2009 22:37:41 GMT -6
Well, if they're truly trying to figure out his "state of mind" . . . |
|
|
|
Post by coach4life on May 6, 2009 8:14:25 GMT -6
What the guy did was wrong, but you have to look at his background to understand it. He grew up with nothing, his buds had his back and he had theirs, he goes from having nothing to being a multi-millionaire at the age of what, 20? One of his buds gets a not-so-bright idea, he makes a terrible decision and lends one of his boys some chup change for a really bad idea. Vince Young's self-esteem has been battered in a similar way: from having nothing, to being the super-stud in high school and college, to young multi-millionaire and team savior who has to play against a bunch of other studs where he is no longer the best athlete on the field. These guys (and others like them) aren't to be pitied, I just wish people would put themselves in their shoes and imagine what that must be like. Lebron survived it, maybe he's getting better advice and guidance. Hopefully TD can reach Michael and help him.
Your right mariner, it is selective outrage because he was a guy in the spotlight. He's done his remittance, time to leave him alone and let him get his life back together.
|
|
|
|
Post by brophy on May 6, 2009 8:44:41 GMT -6
 Dungy, Reeves, and Lovie Smith need to get Vick to CONFESSS! |
|
|
|
Post by fatkicker on May 6, 2009 8:56:19 GMT -6
i would like to imagine what it would be like....
give me 50 million............
i don't feel for 'em.....throw 'em under the jail......vick, pac-man, plaxico.........all these rejects from society that happen to have the ability to run......
really though......society plays a part.....it's what we get for idolizing those that can play a game.........
|
|
|
|
Post by phantom on May 6, 2009 10:38:49 GMT -6
i would like to imagine what it would be like.... give me 50 million............ i don't feel for 'em.....throw 'em under the jail......vick, pac-man, plaxico.........all these rejects from society that happen to have the ability to run...... really though......society plays a part.....it's what we get for idolizing those that can play a game......... Vick has been in jail for a year, will likely be suspended for another year, and has lost millions of dollars. What exactly would you like them to do to him? |
|
|
|
Post by CoachMikeJudy on May 6, 2009 10:47:39 GMT -6
i would like to imagine what it would be like.... give me 50 million............ i don't feel for 'em.....throw 'em under the jail......vick, pac-man, plaxico.........all these rejects from society that happen to have the ability to run...... really though......society plays a part.....it's what we get for idolizing those that can play a game......... Vick has been in jail for a year, will likely be suspended for another year, and has lost millions of dollars. What exactly would you like them to do to him? Exactly- what more does he need to do? He served his time- not his fault the sentencing was weak in public opinion... OJ was guilty as hell, and he killed HUMANS and served no time for that... Blame the judicial system for this BS |
|
crl
Junior Member
Pick me , pick me... I want to be on the RNC location scout team.
Posts: 476
|
Post by crl on May 6, 2009 10:58:00 GMT -6
F##k him...
tiger does not change its stripes...once a thug always a thug
Even Al Davis won´t touch this guy and when Singletary thought about it, the press, the public and the ownership told him to shut the "F up" or leave SF which will happen anyway, this guy as great as he was on the field is not the next Walsh.
This clown in the NFL again, people will forgive you when you kill people, sell dope or even abuse women...get some reverend to say that you are sorry and have found religion the same old blah, blah ... but hurt animals for pleasure and notoriety.
That´s all people want to see when they go to the stadium to watch a game, the TV will have a field day and the objection from the community will force sponsors to say NO WAY! By the way where were his BOY´Z in all this his "Rapper Thugs"? Thinking S##t no way Ray...I want to keep my money and not let PETA into my domain.
As for Dungy , great man, good man but it will not matter.
IMHO
|
|
tarrant
Sophomore Member
Posts: 117
|
Post by tarrant on May 6, 2009 11:11:09 GMT -6
Maybe, but he was jailed for bankrolling it. not for the dog fighting itself. He made a bad decision, served the time that was required of him, and lost millions aside from that. That's about as broken down as you can make someone. He deserves a chance to prove he has learned from his mistakes. Not multiple do overs but 1 chance. If he keeps his nose clean and excels good for him, if not then it's on him for not learning from his past mistakes. As others have pointed out though other guys have gotten away with more and punished for less and are still in the league.
I'm not saying I agree with him, but he has been punished AND put into our rehabilitation focused prison system he should be able to walk out with the chance to start over.
|
|
|
|
Post by phantom on May 6, 2009 11:24:11 GMT -6
F##k him... tiger does not change its stripes...once a thug always a thug Even Al Davis won´t touch this guy and when Singletary thought about it, the press, the public and the ownership told him to shut the "F up" or leave SF which will happen anyway, this guy as great as he was on the field is not the next Walsh. This clown in the NFL again, people will forgive you when you kill people, sell dope or even abuse women...get some reverend to say that you are sorry and have found religion the same old blah, blah ... but hurt animals for pleasure and notoriety. That´s all people want to see when they go to the stadium to watch a game, the TV will have a field day and the objection from the community will force sponsors to say NO WAY! By the way where were his BOY´Z in all this his "Rapper Thugs"? Thinking S##t no way Ray...I want to keep my money and not let PETA into my domain. As for Dungy , great man, good man but it will not matter. IMHO So, people never change? |
|
crl
Junior Member
Pick me , pick me... I want to be on the RNC location scout team.
Posts: 476
|
Post by crl on May 6, 2009 11:31:24 GMT -6
Even Peta won´t touch this guy....Recidivism is what 80% of all Felons...facts are facts and I really don´t see this A-Hole as in the 20%...maybe if he walks on water.
Article on PETA stance.
PETA denies that it plans to do ads with Vick
By PAUL NEWBERRY, AP Sports Writer May 1, 9:20 pm EDT
*
Buzz up! 12 votes
*
Print
An animal-rights group said Friday it has no plans to do public-service advertisements with Michael Vick after the disgraced quarterback is released from prison.
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals said it withdrew any offer about doing the ads after a U.S. Department of Agriculture report on Vick’s dogfighting operation found “he enjoyed placing family pets in the ring with fighting pit bulls and that he laughed as dogs ripped each other apart,” according to Dan Shannon, the group’s assistant director of youth outreach and campaigns.
Shannon issued a statement late Friday in response to an Advertising Age report that Vick was set to do public service ads for PETA after he is released from federal prison. The one-time Atlanta Falcons star is scheduled to begin home confinement this month, having served the bulk of a nearly two-year sentence for financing and participating in a major dogfighting ring.
Advertising Age quoted three people with knowledge of talks as saying the proposed endorsement would be part of a comprehensive public-relations plan aimed at rehabilitating Vick’s image and helping him get him back into the NFL. He was suspended indefinitely after admitting his involvement in dogfighting, and commissioner Roger Goodell has said he won’t consider the quarterback’s reinstatement until he completes his sentence.
The 28-year-old Vick revealed in his bankruptcy case that he hopes to rejoin the NFL and believes he could play another 10 to 12 seasons. He was once the league’s highest-paid player, signing a 10-year, $140 million contract with Atlanta, but the Falcons have said they don’t want him back.
PETA had been talks with Vick’s representatives about doing the ads until receiving the USDA report, which led the group to call on Vick to undergo a brain scan to determine if he suffers from anti-social personality disorder.
“In December, after consulting with psychiatrists, PETA withdrew the offer for the TV spot,” Shannon said in his statement. “In January, we called on NFL commissioner Goodell to require that Vick undergo a brain scan and full psychological evaluation before any decisions were made about the future of his football career.”
|
|
|
|
Post by phantom on May 6, 2009 11:33:38 GMT -6
Even Peta won´t touch this guy....Recidivism is what 80% of all Felons...facts are facts and I really don´t see this A-Hole as in the 20%...maybe if he walks on water. Article on PETA stance. PETA denies that it plans to do ads with Vick By PAUL NEWBERRY, AP Sports Writer May 1, 9:20 pm EDT * Buzz up! 12 votes * Print An animal-rights group said Friday it has no plans to do public-service advertisements with Michael Vick after the disgraced quarterback is released from prison. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals said it withdrew any offer about doing the ads after a U.S. Department of Agriculture report on Vick’s dogfighting operation found “he enjoyed placing family pets in the ring with fighting pit bulls and that he laughed as dogs ripped each other apart,” according to Dan Shannon, the group’s assistant director of youth outreach and campaigns. Shannon issued a statement late Friday in response to an Advertising Age report that Vick was set to do public service ads for PETA after he is released from federal prison. The one-time Atlanta Falcons star is scheduled to begin home confinement this month, having served the bulk of a nearly two-year sentence for financing and participating in a major dogfighting ring. Advertising Age quoted three people with knowledge of talks as saying the proposed endorsement would be part of a comprehensive public-relations plan aimed at rehabilitating Vick’s image and helping him get him back into the NFL. He was suspended indefinitely after admitting his involvement in dogfighting, and commissioner Roger Goodell has said he won’t consider the quarterback’s reinstatement until he completes his sentence. The 28-year-old Vick revealed in his bankruptcy case that he hopes to rejoin the NFL and believes he could play another 10 to 12 seasons. He was once the league’s highest-paid player, signing a 10-year, $140 million contract with Atlanta, but the Falcons have said they don’t want him back. PETA had been talks with Vick’s representatives about doing the ads until receiving the USDA report, which led the group to call on Vick to undergo a brain scan to determine if he suffers from anti-social personality disorder. “In December, after consulting with psychiatrists, PETA withdrew the offer for the TV spot,” Shannon said in his statement. “In January, we called on NFL commissioner Goodell to require that Vick undergo a brain scan and full psychological evaluation before any decisions were made about the future of his football career.” PETA? Really, you're using PETAs take on this? That's funny. |
|
|
|
Post by fatkicker on May 6, 2009 11:33:45 GMT -6
how bout a lifetime ban from the league.......
you get convicted for the same charges and see how easy it is for you to get a job teaching or coaching...........
all vick is...is a thug that can run really fast...........
no...wait......pacman is proof that multiple chances work.........
|
|
|
|
Post by CoachMikeJudy on May 6, 2009 11:36:27 GMT -6
... people will forgive you when you kill people, sell dope or even abuse women...but hurt animals for pleasure and notoriety... And here lies the underlying issue I have with the whole thing- Anyway- The article does show how revered Dungy is among his peers... |
|
crl
Junior Member
Pick me , pick me... I want to be on the RNC location scout team.
Posts: 476
|
Post by crl on May 6, 2009 11:42:49 GMT -6
Guys, who´s take would you use? The local authorities who tried to cover it up ? Goodell who gave him a chance to come clean? The Atlanta Falcons who stood by his side till they knew that they would be publicly ridiculed...lets be real here. He lied to the Grand Jury, he lied to the public and he will lie again, this is a psychopath we are dealing with a 505 personality that all of us studied that took any kind of Social behavioral classes or Criminal Justice course´s.
Ray, Pacman, Jamal, Plaxico and the numerous others...but it is ok cause they can win games it is the same BS that I have seen as a Coach for so many years that Coaches let this kinda crap slide so they can have the Win...lets look at his Brother for Hokeys sake!.
|
|
crl
Junior Member
Pick me , pick me... I want to be on the RNC location scout team.
Posts: 476
|
Post by crl on May 6, 2009 11:54:15 GMT -6
In addition, it took a federal warrant and a FBI investigation and Dept of Justice contempt of court and hindering an a Federal Investigation subpoena to the Federal court overriding the State court and local courts to bring this out in the open. This was no normal case and conviction but a Conspiracy by local officials who had to plea bargain and resign to CYA and save themselves from jail time.
This fool was 1 step away from a RICO indictment and copped a plea because he was looking at possible 10 to 20 years for Conspiracy and Racketeering charges...so has he really paid his debt?
Hey they were rougher on Gotti and he was sentenced to the same charges...this guy got preferential treatment and now they want to give it to him again.
|
|
|
|
Post by 2leegit on May 6, 2009 12:06:02 GMT -6
Lying is what most people do until you have the goods on them. Most hubands lie when they are suspected of cheating until they are caught red handed. Enron executives lied until caught with the goods. Politicians lie. We all lie. If you get stopped by the police for speeding, He asks " Do you know how fast you were going?" We always say "No Officer" knowing exactly how fast we were going. We all live in glass houses.
|
|
|
|
Post by mariner42 on May 6, 2009 12:12:05 GMT -6
(slightly NSFW) Clearly a rational, intelligent organization with great, upstanding moral values and sense of decency. Oh wait, they wanted to show that during the Super Bowl to an audience of MILLIONS. Given my status with the ex, I'm praying that's not what she believes. I'm right there with you Mike. A few things that I have a problem with: 1-Who are you quoting? If you're not directly quoting someone, then let's get rid of the quote marks and make it clear that it's you who views them as rapper thugs. 2-BOY'Z Shows an obvious contempt for a lifestyle and culture that people cannot help if they're born into and surrounded by 3-the general attitude of your post smacks of a lack of exposure. I can't say I grew up in a hard place or had particularly adverse life experiences, but one of the things I always loved about football, and sports, was that they brought me together with those that did. There are worlds and lifestyles that we only discover when we are exposed to it. It's easy to criticize the "rapper thugs" (quoting you) and to mock people who would use the phrase BOYZ, but until you've grown up with and shared experiences with people who really did talk that way, live that life, and been a part of that culture, you'll never really understand. Could be because I'm young enough to have grown with this generation, could be because I'm annoyed with the outrage people have expressed over this when the underlying causes get ignored, could be because I'm an @sshole, but I hate when I hear people come down on rap music, disadvantaged minority culture, and the 'thug life' (my phrase) from what always sounds like a middle class caucasian perspective. I'll never pretend what he did wasn't wrong, but our reactions have frequently and consistently been just as wrong, imo. Bottom line: crucifying Michael Vick is the easy way out that lets us feel better about ourselves, which is ignorant and self-serving. |
|
|
|
Post by windigo on May 6, 2009 12:15:02 GMT -6
I think Vick will sit out another year. Then he will be 30. Do any of us really think his legs will be what they were? I don’t think he can be like Cunningham was and come back as a good pocket passer. He doesn’t have those kind of skills.
|
|
crl
Junior Member
Pick me , pick me... I want to be on the RNC location scout team.
Posts: 476
|
Post by crl on May 6, 2009 14:30:40 GMT -6
Please enough of the PC, I grew up in a Barrio...life was cheap and education was something Anglos got...My parents broke the stereo-type and I received a good education and moved on. We now have a Black President, whom I voted for and will again, I am a Woolly Head Liberal and at one time had an entire Black Coaching Staff in a White middle class Community which we never had an issue of race. I do love animals and my comment for BoYZ was exactly that...when an art form admires pimps, whores and the thugs life as the be all I do have a problem with that because well frankly I lived it, coached in Inter City Schools(NYC) and my goal was to have these kids understand education over the streets, sometimes I failed and sometimes it worked...what you simply are not seeing is the mis- use of justice and the tolerance we give certain people because they are special or we are just afraid to be labeled racist because we feel a certain way. As for the crucifixion, I beg your pardon, a Felony was committed, Fraud, Perjury, obstruction of Justice, Fed status broken and innocent animals, beaten to death, killed, starved...what about that?
Is that against White Middle Class Perspective, so if I am a blackman I am allowed to do this because I did not have a father? The law is the law and in as such its effects created by these malcontents is my issue when people turn and abstractly pretend that it is just ok because society was the effect.
|
|
|
|
Post by spreadattack on May 6, 2009 15:03:57 GMT -6
In addition, it took a federal warrant and a FBI investigation and Dept of Justice contempt of court and hindering an a Federal Investigation subpoena to the Federal court overriding the State court and local courts to bring this out in the open. This was no normal case and conviction but a Conspiracy by local officials who had to plea bargain and resign to CYA and save themselves from jail time. This fool was 1 step away from a RICO indictment and copped a plea because he was looking at possible 10 to 20 years for Conspiracy and Racketeering charges...so has he really paid his debt? Hey they were rougher on Gotti and he was sentenced to the same charges...this guy got preferential treatment and now they want to give it to him again. I didn't follow things that closely but I didn't remember all of that -- including the feds overtaking a state coverup? I remember the investigation going, him not being overly cooperative, them arresting his friends/co-conspirators who copped pleas and left him in the cold. He then admitted his crime, was sentenced under the federal guidelines (which do not provide for parole and are not easy). As far as the felon recidivism rate, it's about 65%, which is high but not 80%. But what do you do to people? If you commit a felony you should be in jail for life, forever? You should be just executed -- good riddance? Criminal sentencing is rough and difficult (few politicians succeed if they are perceived as "soft on crime") but you try to fit the charge to how bad of a thing the person did, coupled with deterrence (both deterring the individual from committing crimes and warding off would-be criminals). None of those factors to me seem to merit the ol' lock 'em up and throw away the key thing. And I don't remember all the charges but, while I generally agree that Vick got a harsh sentence while others maybe are guilty and walk, that is apples to oranges. OJ Simpson was tried before a jury in state court in California, and somehow convinced them that the state did not have enough evidence to convict him. Vick was charged in federal court, with overwhelming evidence, and pleaded guilty. If I knew everything I might be able to say that's unfair, but unfair to who? Vick? Otherwise I dunno. There's too many people who get convicted and sentenced every day for things to run perfect. I find a lot of the arguments about this guy and others strange. I think the guy should serve out his jail time (again, in federal prison there is no such thing as parole, contrary to what anyone says) and then let the league deal with him. I'm also not convinced that no felon should ever be allowed back in the NFL. Yes, many felons have their employment prospects collapse, but is that accurate in every context? And keep in mind that it is usually white collar criminals who (sometimes, at least) find their way back to white collar jobs. Strange situation. Good luck to Dungy. I too would have expected some professionals as well. The NFL has to be extra careful because to it, it is a PR thing as much as anything else. But that's how it goes when you're Michael Vick. |
|
crl
Junior Member
Pick me , pick me... I want to be on the RNC location scout team.
Posts: 476
|
Post by crl on May 6, 2009 15:48:02 GMT -6
Let the NFL and the public deal with this...my feelings are to strong for any equilibrium on this matter, I will close to say sorry to any I offended but I still hold my feelings as my own.
Good evening.
CRL
|
|
|
|
Post by spreadattack on May 6, 2009 16:43:10 GMT -6
Didn't offend me, I do enjoy discussion with people who strongly hold their views. Criminal justice and then reintegration into society is always a difficult issue. On the whole, wherever he is and whatever our expectation for him is, I do hope Vick gets it together. I also hope others don't follow down his path; dog fighting or not Vick got himself into quite a mess.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2009 17:15:00 GMT -6
In addition, it took a federal warrant and a FBI investigation and Dept of Justice contempt of court and hindering an a Federal Investigation subpoena to the Federal court overriding the State court and local courts to bring this out in the open. This was no normal case and conviction but a Conspiracy by local officials who had to plea bargain and resign to CYA and save themselves from jail time. This fool was 1 step away from a RICO indictment and copped a plea because he was looking at possible 10 to 20 years for Conspiracy and Racketeering charges...so has he really paid his debt? Hey they were rougher on Gotti and he was sentenced to the same charges...this guy got preferential treatment and now they want to give it to him again. I didn't follow things that closely but I didn't remember all of that -- including the feds overtaking a state coverup? I remember the investigation going, him not being overly cooperative, them arresting his friends/co-conspirators who copped pleas and left him in the cold. He then admitted his crime, was sentenced under the federal guidelines (which do not provide for parole and are not easy). As far as the felon recidivism rate, it's about 65%, which is high but not 80%. But what do you do to people? If you commit a felony you should be in jail for life, forever? You should be just executed -- good riddance? Criminal sentencing is rough and difficult (few politicians succeed if they are perceived as "soft on crime") but you try to fit the charge to how bad of a thing the person did, coupled with deterrence (both deterring the individual from committing crimes and warding off would-be criminals). None of those factors to me seem to merit the ol' lock 'em up and throw away the key thing. And I don't remember all the charges but, while I generally agree that Vick got a harsh sentence while others maybe are guilty and walk, that is apples to oranges. OJ Simpson was tried before a jury in state court in California, and somehow convinced them that the state did not have enough evidence to convict him. Vick was charged in federal court, with overwhelming evidence, and pleaded guilty. If I knew everything I might be able to say that's unfair, but unfair to who? Vick? Otherwise I dunno. There's too many people who get convicted and sentenced every day for things to run perfect. I find a lot of the arguments about this guy and others strange. I think the guy should serve out his jail time (again, in federal prison there is no such thing as parole, contrary to what anyone says) and then let the league deal with him. I'm also not convinced that no felon should ever be allowed back in the NFL. Yes, many felons have their employment prospects collapse, but is that accurate in every context? And keep in mind that it is usually white collar criminals who (sometimes, at least) find their way back to white collar jobs. Strange situation. Good luck to Dungy. I too would have expected some professionals as well. The NFL has to be extra careful because to it, it is a PR thing as much as anything else. But that's how it goes when you're Michael Vick. Good posrt Spread...However, recidivism rates vary ..depends on the type of crime, Preadatory crimes have a much higher rate of recidivism |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2009 17:15:02 GMT -6
Posted twice sorry....Don't wana get atarted on this again
|
|
|
|
Post by spreadattack on May 6, 2009 19:16:40 GMT -6
Good posrt Spread...However, recidivism rates vary ..depends on the type of crime, Preadatory crimes have a much higher rate of recidivism You're right about them varying. The 65% rate I pulled is the overall recidivism rate for all those convicted of federal felonies. So some state crimes, or sex crimes versus drugs, robberies, etc all have different rates. |
|
|
|
Post by craines10 on May 7, 2009 23:30:37 GMT -6
Maybe it takes a Tony Dungy for Vick to get his mind right. Anybody who goes from being the richest man in football to soon working construction for 10 dollars an hour is definitely going to be a changed man. If I remember his charges were for funding the dog fighting not killing, and he didnt make this mistake because he was from the hood. Did Matt Jones cut up that cocaine in that car last season because of where he was from? No he made a stupid mistake which he regretted as soon as he was caught. Dont balme the environment because everyone in the hood does not fight dogs... At least my family and friends didnt.
|
|
