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Post by 19delta on May 3, 2009 18:08:59 GMT -6
History Channel has a 2-hour documentary on tonight (7PM Central Time) about the philosophy behind The Art of War.
Will probably be on again around 10:00 or 11:00 or so tonight.
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Post by bigdog2003 on May 3, 2009 18:12:45 GMT -6
I saw that was coming on, may have to catch it.
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Post by jgordon1 on May 3, 2009 18:17:57 GMT -6
just turned it on
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Post by fbdoc on May 3, 2009 18:18:49 GMT -6
What was Sun Tzu's record again?
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Post by khalfie on May 3, 2009 18:22:23 GMT -6
Used to hate on Sun Tzu... due to its perceived lack of practical application... and more so, general statements that seemed to fit all situations... However, this practical application of his lessons, and deeper explaination of Tzu's philosophies played out... is outstanding... This show is fire!
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benrt1
Freshmen Member
"I'm your Huckleberry".
Posts: 56
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Post by benrt1 on May 3, 2009 18:24:16 GMT -6
Sun Tzu would've ran The Doublewing! Great show so far!
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Post by khalfie on May 3, 2009 18:26:24 GMT -6
What was Sun Tzu's record again? Did you hear that... Sun Tzu ran the Double Wing... and word has it... he was the architect behind the sniffer position... Something about being able to grab their belt straps...
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Post by bobgoodman on May 3, 2009 18:42:59 GMT -6
I recently read the story of how Sun Tzu demonstrated his prowess by organizing a company of princesses. And had several of them executed when they didn't take him seriously!
Anybody here a fan of Lao Tsu? Shih Tsu? General Tso's chicken?
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Post by airman on May 3, 2009 18:49:48 GMT -6
I am more of a Attila the Hun/General George Patton kind of guy but I will watch the Art of War. I have read it some many times and sometimes you can get lost in it being a bouch of drivel.
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Post by khalfie on May 3, 2009 18:57:14 GMT -6
I recently read the story of how Sun Tzu demonstrated his prowess by organizing a company of princesses. And had several of them executed when they didn't take him seriously! Anybody here a fan of Lao Tsu? Shih Tsu? General Tso's chicken? I don't care what you say... That right there... Hill Larry Us!
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Post by endersgame on May 3, 2009 19:52:54 GMT -6
Sun Tzu ran the Double Wing... Hahaha *snorts*
But did anyone finish reading The Art of War and go, "Okay, that was all rather obvious?"
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Post by airman on May 3, 2009 20:06:17 GMT -6
if he ran the double wing and he might have he must have got tired of that sniffer back up his but.
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Post by los on May 3, 2009 20:14:11 GMT -6
Good program, really enjoyed that and you're right endersgame, most of it seems like "common sense", but for whatever reasons, throughout the history of man, we don't always use common sense huh?....I live for the history channel anyway, lol.....there's also been a really good series, about Patton's ww2 campaigns, on friday nights at 9:00 pm est (battlefield 360)....if you like strategy?
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Post by phantom on May 3, 2009 20:40:52 GMT -6
Sun Tzu ran the Double Wing... Hahaha *snorts* But did anyone finish reading The Art of War and go, "Okay, that was all rather obvious?" A few years ago 60 Minutes did a piece about a man who teaches observation. He mentioned that few adults see the arrow incorporated into the FedEx logo. I hadn't and few of the teachers who I discussed the show with the next day did either. Great ideas often seem obvious after they've been pointed out.
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Post by khalfie on May 3, 2009 20:44:56 GMT -6
I think Sun Tzu was the bastard child of...
Wait for it...
Wait for it...
Nostradamus...
Tell me I'm lyiing!
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Post by 19delta on May 3, 2009 20:49:59 GMT -6
A few years ago 60 Minutes did a piece about a man who teaches observation. He mentioned that few adults see the arrow incorporated into the FedEx logo. I hadn't and few of the teachers who I discussed the show with the next day did either. Great ideas often seem obvious after they've been pointed out. I just Googled the FedEx logo. That is really clever...never noticed that before. I agree with your statement about great ideas...how true!
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Post by los on May 3, 2009 21:00:18 GMT -6
I don't know Khalfie.....but here's a scary thought....if you believe in reincarnation, they might all be the same person, just reappearing throughout history.......Sun Tzu....Nostradamus.....Patton.....Lombardi.....and now Brophy, lol
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lgoody
Freshmen Member
Posts: 84
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Post by lgoody on May 3, 2009 21:12:26 GMT -6
...wouldn't Nostradamus be considered the illegitimate child of Sun Tzu?
I didn't get a chance to see it tonight, but hopefully it'll be on later. I read it, didn't retain much though. I looked through it a few months later and looked into it a bit more. I'm halfway convinced it was a compendium of teachings that Sun Tzu put together, as opposed to something he came up with on his own.
Anybody here read Vom Krieg by Clausewitz?
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Post by groundchuck on May 3, 2009 21:16:25 GMT -6
I have read the book cover to cover. There are some things that made me go "well duh" but this is b/c we have all seen or heard of those tactics before. Your strength vs thier weakness for example
Summary of Chapters: Laying Plans explores the five key elements that define a successful outcome (the Way, seasons, terrain, leadership, and management). By thinking, assessing and comparing these points you can calculate a victory, deviation from them will ensure failure. Remember that war is a very grave matter of state.
Waging War explains how to understand the economy of war and how success requires making the winning play, which in turn, requires limiting the cost of competition and conflict.
Attack by Stratagem defines the source of strength as unity, not size, and the five ingredients that you need to succeed in any war. Tactical Dispositions explains the importance of defending existing positions until you can advance them and how you must recognize opportunities, not try to create them.
Energy explains the use of creativity and timing in building your momentum.
Weak Points & Strong explains how your opportunities come from the openings in the environment caused by the relative weakness of your enemy in a given area.
Maneuvering explains the dangers of direct conflict and how to win those confrontations when they are forced upon you.
Variation in Tactics focuses on the need for flexibility in your responses. It explains how to respond to shifting circumstances successfully.
The Army on the March describes the different situations in which you find yourselves as you move into new enemy territories and how to respond to them. Much of it focuses on evaluating the intentions of others.
Terrain looks at the three general areas of resistance (distance, dangers, and barriers) and the six types of ground positions that arise from them. Each of these six field positions offer certain advantages and disadvantages.
The Nine Situations describe nine common situations (or stages) in a campaign, from scattering to deadly, and the specific focus you need to successfully navigate each of them.
The Attack by Fire explains the use of weapons generally and the use of the environment as a weapon specifically. It examines the five targets for attack, the five types of environmental attack, and the appropriate responses to such attack.
The Use of Spies focuses on the importance of developing good information sources, specifically the five types of sources and how to manage them.
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Post by touchdowng on May 3, 2009 21:17:00 GMT -6
Sun Tzu would have never ran the double wing. It has poor tactical characteristics. If you don't believe me you need to read about "FORMATION" and "TERRAIN" . . . . I'm speaking purely from a militaristic standpoint, of course He would have spread you out and ran a balanced attack and would have allowed your aggression (or over confidence) to beat you. Actually, he would have aleady won before you even engaged. No reason to respond . . . . game's over ;D
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Post by khalfie on May 3, 2009 21:20:51 GMT -6
...wouldn't Nostradamus be considered the illegitimate child of Sun Tzu? I didn't get a chance to see it tonight, but hopefully it'll be on later. I read it, didn't retain much though. I looked through it a few months later and looked into it a bit more. I'm halfway convinced it was a compendium of teachings that Sun Tzu put together, as opposed to something he came up with on his own. Anybody here read Vom Krieg by Clausewitz? Hmmm... got me there... But to the Fedex... I didn't understand why an arrow? So I googled... and got this interview with the creator... And yes... Sun Tzu had predicted this also... At what point in the design process did you realize you could create an arrow with those letters?First of all, by the time we?d gotten to this point we?d already created and reviewed over 200 designs; some close-in to the ?old? Federal Express logo and others progressively more daring (though all the while retaining the enormous cache of the famous orange and purple (despite the fact that many respondents in focus groups thought the Federal Express colors were ?red and blue?). The current design was one of six semifinalists that were being refined for a presentation to very senior management. If you put a lower-case ?x? to the right of a capital ?E? (Ex) you can begin to see a hint of an arrow, though it is clumsy and extremely abstract. I thought that, if I could develop this concept of an ?arrow? it could be promoted as a symbol for speed and precision, both FedEx communicative attributes. And, by the way, different kinds of arrows were utilized with some of the other semi-final candidates, though none of those were ?hidden.? Once I decided to refine the concept of the embedded arrow, I found that, to make the arrow more legitimate and identifiable, one needed to actually reconstruct the letterforms in order to make the arrow happen. This leads to your next question:
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on May 4, 2009 0:45:19 GMT -6
HAHA I had to google the FedEx logo too... I had never noticed it... I will ask around and see who else has seen it.
One of the subs at school is a FedEx worker and wears the uniform, I will ask him. Don't ask me why he wears the uniform cuz I don't know and I just laugh at him daily... He came into my office to sub for another PE teacher and I asked him if he had a package for us. Then the other PE guy came in and did the same... Was funny...
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Post by groundchuck on May 4, 2009 8:01:08 GMT -6
The real creator of double wing was not Don Markham, it was Sun Tzu.
He, not Kurt Bryan, created the A-11.
Sun Tzu would move his players effortlessly between the offensive "packages" depending on the enemy, er team, he was facing.
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Post by schultbear74 on May 4, 2009 8:28:41 GMT -6
Sun Tzu could beat you with his'n and he could beat you with your'n
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Post by dubber on May 4, 2009 8:36:30 GMT -6
Took me 30 seconds to find it.
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nexthc
Junior Member
"The Golden Rule"
Posts: 439
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Post by nexthc on May 4, 2009 8:49:07 GMT -6
Did anyone record it?
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Post by jgordon1 on May 4, 2009 9:17:52 GMT -6
Saw it last night, I would have not preferred to see it related to today's type of war. IMO, It is all too easy to pick circumstances and then reverse match them to prove your point....would have liked to see more of Tzu's history. as a side note note, I think the American Civil War was the first war in history too see the mass carnage that is so common in war today. also as Dcohio points out..the technology is so different
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Post by saintrad on May 4, 2009 9:21:54 GMT -6
Sun Tzu ran the Double Wing... Hahaha *snorts* But did anyone finish reading The Art of War and go, "Okay, that was all rather obvious?" well, after 4200 years it should be obvious. These lessons were intended for his time period and somehow have stood the test of time. Tzu, Machievelli, and Klauswitcz (sp) should be read at least once by all coaches since most of what they talk about do have modern applications. As for patton (one of my all time heros) he was a student of Napoleon and Sun Tzu.
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Post by robinhood on May 4, 2009 13:10:46 GMT -6
Sun Tzu came BEFORE Nostradamus.
I've read both Sun Tzu and Clausewitz and prefer the German dude. He's way easier to comprehend. I'm guessing something gets lost in the translation of Sun Tzu from Chinese to English.
I watched and greatly enjoyed the Sun Tzu show on the HC.
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lgoody
Freshmen Member
Posts: 84
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Post by lgoody on May 4, 2009 13:55:29 GMT -6
I thought Clausewitz was a much tougher "read", per se, but found his information a little easier to retain. Probably because I had to discuss it in class and then take an exam on it...ha.
Anyway, if you were to take the Trinity and apply it to football, how do you think that would look?
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