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Post by eaglemountie on May 3, 2009 17:38:40 GMT -6
I am the assistant coach for the Track team and I coach the throws. I know this isn't about football but as coaches I am sure someone here can give me sound advice having experienced a similar situation. Long story but here it goes...
I have a senior that is ranked very highly in the state in both the shot-put and the discus (he is a freak of an athlete). I have coached this athlete since he was a sophmore and he has improved greatly in the last three years, but over that same period of time I have butted heads with him. I have pushed him very hard over that time because he expressed to me that he wanted to be a state champion, which he is very capable of. He is a bit of a space cadet in terms of having focus and concentration both in the classroom and the field (also a football player whom is struggling to get into school due to this lack of focus/effort in the classroom as an underclassman). He also lacks a lot of self-discipline, which as a individual athlete on a track team I feel is very important and emphasize in my coaching of the throws. Over the last year I have really let loose on the reigns of this athlete, not necessarily let him do whatever he wants, but not be as demanding of him, which I feel has helped his performance, until now.
The senior has gotten to the point where he is winning almost every meet in both the shot-put and the discus but his head is getting so big that he thinks he does not need to be coached nor listen to what I have to say. On Saturday, he did something that could cost him to win (under certain circumstances) a meet and he did it anyway. That was almost immediately after I told him not to do it and something that I coach all my athletes not to do.
I feel he is directly disrespecting me and everything I have taught him in the past three years. He has been coming to practice late, he does not always put forth his best effort in practice, etc. I am at the point where I am ready to be done with coaching the kid because if he hasn't "gotten it" by now he never will. He is also becoming a terrible influence on my younger athletes by his actions, one of whom is his brother.
I have met with him and the HC numerous times to help him understand the importance of commitment, focus, discipline to compete at a championship level. There are four weeks left in the season but after three years I am done with this athlete. I am thinking about going to the HC on Monday and letting him know that while I don't care if he continues to compete or not, I will no longer be coaching him.
Sorry for the long rant but I felt it necessary for you all to fully understand the situation.
Any advice?
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Post by schultbear74 on May 3, 2009 17:43:58 GMT -6
sometimes you just have to cut a man loose
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Post by fbdoc on May 3, 2009 17:50:45 GMT -6
Do you have team rules? Are they known by athlete and coach? If the kid violated a team rule, enforce the consequences that your rules dictate. Don't just be mad because the kid has a big head. Hopefully the head coach will back you up. If he doesn't, you're out of luck. On the other hand, if your "rules" are vague and the kid is just being a jerk, is it worth it on the eve of a championship to try and make a point that should have been made much earlier in the season (or in his career) ?. Good Luck.
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Post by eaglemountie on May 3, 2009 17:54:11 GMT -6
Insubordination isn't mentioned in our team rules but I don't want to have the kid kicked off the team...
(HC isn't very strong in the discipline department)
I just do not want the responsibility of coaching a kid that does not want to be coached. I want to try and send the message that no matter how good someone is that does not give them a free pass to do whatever they feel like.
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Post by fbdoc on May 3, 2009 18:13:30 GMT -6
So based on what you've shared, here is what's going to happen - The HC agrees to allow you to NOT coach the kid anymore. Unless he takes over coaching the throwers (not likely with your description of him) the kid is on his own, which sounds like what he wanted in the first place. Or... he punishes/suspends the kid for his transgressions which makes the kid resent you even more when he comes back ( I know, who cares what the kid thinks  ). And there's no way the HC kicks him off the team. Or ... I wish I could offer something constructive but I don't see young "Billy" seeing the light after another heart to heart talk. Once again, Good Luck! |
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Post by coachks on May 3, 2009 20:08:47 GMT -6
If you're having a problem with a player and the head coach isn't supporting you it sounds like you need a new job.
You can't simply have a player who you don't coach. It sets a bad example for the young kids and creates an expectation that the best athletes don't have to listen. The kid isn't bigger than the team (and, if he is, you need a new team).
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Post by phantom on May 3, 2009 20:13:50 GMT -6
I am thinking about going to the HC on Monday and letting him know that while I don't care if he continues to compete or not, I will no longer be coaching him. Any advice? What exactly are the ramifications of refusing to coach him for the couple of weeks remaining? |
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Post by mariner42 on May 3, 2009 22:29:29 GMT -6
I'd make it pretty clear to him that if he won't listen to your coaching, he will not be able to participate in any of the drills that you run with the other athletes, he must come within the standard practice time in order to use the implements (unless he owns his own), he cannot throw without an adult to supervise, etc. Basically let him know that if he continues to disrespect you, then he will be 100% alone for the next few weeks.
Listening to your story, I'm gonna guess and say he intentionally tapped the toe-board and scratched? If I'm correct, I'll tell you that I have a rule about that with my throwers and I will automatically pull them from the meet, regardless of whether it's their first or last throw and what position they're in, I'll walk out into the sector, pick up their marker, hand it to the official and scratch them from that event and any others at that meet. State finals or JV dual-meet, I could care less.
Could be I'm reading too much into your statement, though.
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Post by eaglemountie on May 4, 2009 5:08:35 GMT -6
Mariner, that is exactly the situation. He touched the top of the toe-board intentionally twice during competition saturday because he didn't like his throw. This is something I do not allow for many reasons, which I'm sure you know. I told the HC I was going to stratch him but he told me not to, even after I forbid him to do it again.
Phantom, his ramifications would be the simple fact that during the championship phase of a throwers season if they are not trained properly that could mean the difference between 1st and 8th place. Knowing this kid, all he would do if having to practice by himslef would show up and do nothing but throw. This would be more than dumb to train in this fashion at that point in the season. He would simply fall flat on his face at the state level if left alone. So if that is what he wants, thats what he will get. I am tired of wasting my time and energy on a kid I have sacrificed so much for over the last three years, only to be disrespected in return.
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Post by mariner42 on May 4, 2009 7:30:43 GMT -6
I told the HC I was going to stratch him but he told me not to, even after I forbid him to do it again. And there's your problem. Either he's got your back or he doesn't, and it's very clear that he doesn't. If you really want to take a hard stance, tell your HC he has to back you up on this or he has to find a new throws coach. If you're coaching guys into the state finals, physical freaks or no, you're obviously worthwhile and deserve his support. Leave the kid alone or find somewhere else to coach, imo. I coach track for the fun and the sun, if I wasn't enjoying myself every day, I'd walk out in a heartbeat. Football's different by nature, but track for me is supposed to be all fun all the time. I coach with that attitude and my kids pick up on it and we all have success and good memories. Anyone that's going to mess with my (and by extension the rest of the group) good time isn't someone I'm going to waste my energy on. |
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Post by touchdownmaker on May 4, 2009 8:01:29 GMT -6
What you tolerate you encourage. Set limits and when the kids dont observe them they dont participate. superstar egos are everywhere in sports because so many coaches tolerate it.
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Post by dubber on May 4, 2009 8:49:18 GMT -6
The truth is frustrating, but......
You do not have the authority necessary to coach this individual the way he needs coached.
Your HC has allowed this kid to take it away from you. That sucks, but that is what has happened.
You got two choices:
1. Leave the bastard alone and let him fail. Be upfront with him about what will happen to him if he does not listen to you, then let him lie in his bed.
2. You quit.......with a header like that, this would be my first choice.
I'd probably run that dude into the ground.....he'd come out to throw, and it'd turn into cross country practice. Again, IF you have the authority.
The "throwing a fit scratch" as I like to call it. There was a kid who ended up setting the state record in shot and discus when I was throwing.
He was in my sectional. Kid threw a collegiate shot and discus IN COMPETITIONS. His first discus throw is about 175' or something, and he's not happy with it. He does the pouty scratch.
Then, he fluke scratches the next one, throws it OB or something.
You see where this is going......he's nervous by his last throw and falls out of the ring. Shot at the state title in discus was OVER right there. He went on to win Shot for state, but man.
175' would have won sectional too.......I beat his track coach could've used those points.
And, ergo, the reason football is better:
1. Team game
2. Strategy
3. Violence
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Post by eaglemountie on May 4, 2009 9:10:32 GMT -6
I appreciate the responses.
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Post by phantom on May 4, 2009 9:24:56 GMT -6
Mariner, that is exactly the situation. He touched the top of the toe-board intentionally twice during competition saturday because he didn't like his throw. This is something I do not allow for many reasons, which I'm sure you know. I told the HC I was going to stratch him but he told me not to, even after I forbid him to do it again. Phantom, his ramifications would be the simple fact that during the championship phase of a throwers season if they are not trained properly that could mean the difference between 1st and 8th place. Knowing this kid, all he would do if having to practice by himslef would show up and do nothing but throw. This would be more than dumb to train in this fashion at that point in the season. He would simply fall flat on his face at the state level if left alone. So if that is what he wants, thats what he will get. I am tired of wasting my time and energy on a kid I have sacrificed so much for over the last three years, only to be disrespected in return. Coach, I don't care what happens to him. I was asking what can happen to you if you refuse to work with the kid. |
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Post by schultbear74 on May 4, 2009 9:43:46 GMT -6
That's why I don't coach track.
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Post by tothehouse on May 4, 2009 9:46:07 GMT -6
I'm guessing this is to the point where it's hard to come up with a great answer. I would have made sure of a lot of these points people are making ahead of time.
I was an assistant coach for different sport here on campus where I thought discipline was lacking...I would crack the whip, but would be slightly stepped on in return. Basically saying the header wanted to be the "heavy", but wasn't as heavy handed as me. This was one of the 3-4 reasons I stopped coaching this sport.
If I end up coaching another sport on campus I will be clear where I stand and let the head coach know ahead of time. I would almost interview the head coach to see if I wanted to be on the staff.
I couldn't stand what you're going through coach, but I wouldn't have let it get to that point.
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Post by eaglemountie on May 4, 2009 9:55:31 GMT -6
Mariner, that is exactly the situation. He touched the top of the toe-board intentionally twice during competition saturday because he didn't like his throw. This is something I do not allow for many reasons, which I'm sure you know. I told the HC I was going to stratch him but he told me not to, even after I forbid him to do it again. Phantom, his ramifications would be the simple fact that during the championship phase of a throwers season if they are not trained properly that could mean the difference between 1st and 8th place. Knowing this kid, all he would do if having to practice by himslef would show up and do nothing but throw. This would be more than dumb to train in this fashion at that point in the season. He would simply fall flat on his face at the state level if left alone. So if that is what he wants, thats what he will get. I am tired of wasting my time and energy on a kid I have sacrificed so much for over the last three years, only to be disrespected in return. Coach, I don't care what happens to him. I was asking what can happen to you if you refuse to work with the kid. Probably nothing at all, I would coach the rest of the kids until their seasons were done and then part ways. |
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Post by phantom on May 4, 2009 10:11:02 GMT -6
Coach, I don't care what happens to him. I was asking what can happen to you if you refuse to work with the kid. Probably nothing at all, I would coach the rest of the kids until their seasons were done and then part ways. Well, fock him then. |
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Post by videocoach on May 6, 2009 12:35:10 GMT -6
Eaglemountie - my opinion I would leave him alone. Just make sure to watch your back in case he goes to the HC and complains that you are not helping him get better or help fix his mistakes.
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bgj
Sophomore Member
Posts: 154 
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Post by bgj on May 6, 2009 20:55:33 GMT -6
Kill him with kindness. He'll hate it and it just might change his tune.
Coach your butt off with the other kids.
Don't coach next year.
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). And there's no way the HC kicks him off the team.
