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Post by td4tc on Apr 15, 2009 13:55:59 GMT -6
paranoid about the W's this year and found that we "folded the tent" when we were up comfortably.by this i mean we went to our power ball control game to control the clock and do all the conservative cliche stuff to "preserve the win".
problem with that is i think we missed great opportunities to "try out" our offense in what amounted to a "live scrimmage". we were afraid to "show too much" and wanted to save our good stuff for tougher games.
after thinking about this i think this is wrong. live game situation is a great time to try out your stuff and your athletes and it then gives other teams even more to worry about next week.we ended up with plays we repped all year and never really used. bullets left in the GUN sort of speak.this isn't necessarily about running up the score but letting the kids have some fun, keep the pedal near the floor and simply running all your stuff.
with my new less conservative attitude i'll probably have a pick returned for a TD and blow a lead but we'll have fun doing it.
ANYbody use those comfortable lead (not huge) situations to keep trying out your stuff in a "live scrimmage" or should i stay conservative and paranoid about the W??
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Post by Wingtman on Apr 15, 2009 14:16:25 GMT -6
I dont think games are for "trying out stuff." Thats just me.
If you have it practiced and ready fine. However, 1-4 reps in practice just dont do it for me.
The other side of the coin is, make the other team prepare for the world.
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Post by airman on Apr 15, 2009 14:38:57 GMT -6
i donot get this save stuff for the tougher games mentality which coaches have.
nor do I understand the preserve the win mentality either.
IN the USMC they have a bulldog for a mascot. you know why, cause a bulldog can camp his jaw down tight and still breath because of his funny nose. It is the only breed of dog which can do this.
you could always keep your oppoent down.
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Post by jpdaley25 on Apr 15, 2009 15:35:37 GMT -6
It's a fine line kind of deal. Sometimes it's worth doing; sometimes it's not. It's a judgement call and there's no hard and fast rule. If you do have a hard and fast rule - you become predictable. If you are facing a well-coached, experienced defensive team that has a great staff, you aren't going to surprise them with something new. If you are facing an inexperienced team or a team whose staff is a little suspect, holding something back is something to consider. Also, if you are walking into the unknown, It's good to have an Ace in the hole. It also depends on what you are holding back: is it a wrinkle, or is it a package. Don't hold a package back. Don't waste time practicing things you won't ever use. If the game is out of reach, I have a plan for what I want to run, and how many times I want to run it, to try to dictate what the next opponent spends most of his time working on and to try to set him up for something. Quite often this plan changes mid-stream based on what I have done during the game - It's more about what phase of the offense I relied on most to win the game and the number of times I ran certain things rather than on "holding something back." Just remember, you don't win with surprises and schemes; you win with execution and players making plays. The best surprise you can give the other team is to knock them on their @sses.  |
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Post by justryn2 on Apr 15, 2009 16:06:40 GMT -6
On the defensive side of the ball I would never take the pressure off. If the game is totally out of hand then allowing the defeated team to score just prolongs the agony. Keep them out of the end zone and get the game over quicker. Offensively I would prefer to use different personnel running core offensive plays. It gives the kids that may be starters next year a chance at some reps in a game situation.
I'm not sure what you mean by "good stuff" but, personally, I don't run anything that looks like it is designed for big play potential if my team is comfortably ahead. Its not about preserving the win but about not rubbing the others teams nose in it.
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Post by phantom on Apr 15, 2009 16:10:20 GMT -6
Win the game.
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ccox16
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by ccox16 on Apr 15, 2009 16:22:19 GMT -6
to quote Herm Edwards "You play to win the game."
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Post by groundchuck on Apr 15, 2009 16:44:32 GMT -6
Call me crazy, but isn't getting the win fun in and of itself? Why does one need to add style points after the game is decided?
I am of the "school" that says you do what you need to do to win the game. If I am up 30 in the 4th quarter I am not pulling some "barnyard" play just to practice it. One, now it's on film and if it is a trickeration type play future opponents will prepare for it. Two, it's dirty and cheap to pull out something like that if the game is locked up.
Now, that does not mean that with 9:00 to go in the 4th and up big I would not throw. The backups need work too. But IMO there is a difference between using your normal offense and doing something tricky.
That no longer becomes preserving the win, it becomes rubbing it in in my book.
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Post by td4tc on Apr 15, 2009 17:04:34 GMT -6
tried to make it clear that this was not a "rub it in" type of scenerio.these are not trick plays i'm talking about and we are not hugely ahead, just comfortable.
kind of like in golf you're two shots up(like Kenny Perry) and you try to "play it safe" . hold back on the driver sort of speak. i was talking about continuing with my game plan including passing and even some plays off our core stuff as if the score was closer so that my boys get a little "live practice".ie yes i know we can still win at this point by running power the rest of the day but what will we have learned from that except preserving the win.
i think next year i'm going to keep hitting the driver and going for birdies rather than playing for par and making bogey.
nice bulldog analogy airman.got a real visual on that.
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Post by superpower on Apr 15, 2009 17:59:43 GMT -6
Just remember, you don't win with surprises and schemes; you win with execution and players making plays. Some good wisdom in that quote, Coach. |
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Post by fbdoc on Apr 15, 2009 19:14:18 GMT -6
For the golf analogy - I don't think Kenny Perry played it "safe", I think he played it smart. He didn't start to experiment and try different things, he stayed with his game.
As far as football, I don't think we can "show too much." I want them to see our Fly Sweep, our Boot Leg, and our Play Action. It gives THEM more to think about for next week! Its what we DO! Why hide it? We're going to run our stuff - not run it up - and yes, 3 or 4 games more and we'll run something that we've been setting up but ... DON'T LOSE THE GAME because you're farting around. A guy by the name of Chuck Noll said, "Most football games are Lost, not Won." I want to make sure we're not trying to lose it - winning is tough enough!
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Post by indian1 on Apr 15, 2009 19:14:19 GMT -6
just win the f%$cking game
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Fridge
Sophomore Member
Re-Building the Bocholt Rhinos (18+) in Germany for 2024.
Posts: 148 
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Post by Fridge on Apr 16, 2009 5:30:36 GMT -6
For me, running up the score is, when you play your best play with the best players over and over again.
Let your team perform plays, that did not work during the game, or let the 2nd or 3rd string play the successful plays, and it´s all okay.
If I need a play, I call it. If I do not need it, I don´t call it. But, if my scouting is okay, then I will not even practice it.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Apr 16, 2009 5:59:51 GMT -6
Win the game or else you may not be around next season.
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Post by silkyice on Apr 16, 2009 6:38:27 GMT -6
Win the game. Nothing wrong with keeping a little something in your pocket.
Remember that while you might not be practicing your "new" stuff live, you are practicing how to finish a game. That will come in handy when you have the lead late against a tough opponent.
But, here is the real question, the one that I think you are really asking:
What if by running the new or different stuff you actually are giving yourself a better chance to beat a better opponent later in the year? If that is the case, and you have the game won, then run the other stuff.
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Post by td4tc on Apr 16, 2009 8:20:14 GMT -6
thanks silky,
that's kind of the idea i had.for example you don't need to throw anymore to win the game but your Qb rarely gets live game practice throwing.then later in the year you expect him to be able to throw when you need it and its not like a video game where you can just dial up the play and it will work.he needs some game experience throwing even if you rep it forever in practice.same is true for option stuff.one quarter of live action is worth 5 practices of reps for an Option Qb IMHO.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 16, 2009 8:54:42 GMT -6
td4tc
Just a few thoughts-
Generally, if a team is one dimensional in what they do to win (example, you say "need to throw anymore to win" and "rarely gets live game practice which alludes to a team that runs runs runs and only throws when they can't run) then game reps when the game is no longer in doubt don't really help improvement. That is just from my experience though.
I understand what you are saying though. I do think there are different scenarios to be discussed though, namely situations where the game is in hand, AND situations where the game is NOT in hand yet, but it is in control. I think these are different situations.
Which are you talking about?
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Post by td4tc on Apr 16, 2009 9:44:46 GMT -6
agree 5085, in hand vs in control are different. In control we're going to run all our stuff. In hand is where we get very conservative.One dimensional against weak teams usually means RUN and we know we can run power all day and WIN.But next week for example we play a better team that is going to force us to be more balanced.especially at high school level QB's need to have "game experience" throwing and running option to be effective vs good teams.anybody can hand off.these games where we are in hand is where i'm going to get him that practice instead of closing up the tool box early.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 16, 2009 9:57:34 GMT -6
agree 5085, in hand vs in control are different. In control we're going to run all our stuff. In hand is where we get very conservative.One dimensional against weak teams usually means RUN and we know we can run power all day and WIN.But next week for example we play a better team that is going to force us to be more balanced.especially at high school level QB's need to have "game experience" throwing and running option to be effective vs good teams.anybody can hand off.these games where we are in hand is where i'm going to get him that practice instead of closing up the tool box early. I guess what I am saying is that against a team where you can "close up the toolbox"...keeping it open doesn't really provide the quality reps you are looking for anway. |
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Post by eaglemountie on Apr 16, 2009 13:51:10 GMT -6
If you are saving plays, don't you think you have too many plays?
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tarrant
Sophomore Member
Posts: 117
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Post by tarrant on Apr 16, 2009 14:01:59 GMT -6
I won't go conservative till I'm up by 3 scores and it's the 4th quarter. Before then I'm going to run the offense as I see fit. Unless it's a trick play i try to live the the idea if I'm not running a play 5 times a game or so the play isn't worth the practice time devoted to it to get it right.
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