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Post by coach4life on Apr 8, 2009 22:50:02 GMT -6
How much full speed hitting do you do in practice: - during pre-season
- during drills
- during the season
- with you lines (O & D)
- with your so-called skill positions (the O-line is the real skill position IMHO)
Maybe that's a bit much detail, let me ask it also this way: What is your philosophy on when you hit full speed during practice? |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Apr 9, 2009 3:29:59 GMT -6
If we arent very good at it, we are going to do it alot more than if we are good at it.
Its that simple. In some cases kids get it and theres no point in having them kill each other, in some other cases you got a bunch of softies and they need to develop confidence through live contact (after a logical progression of course)
Its been done several ways. Some coaches think everything has to be live, others think nothing live, save it for games...both ways have produced champions.
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Post by fbcoach74 on Apr 9, 2009 9:25:31 GMT -6
We practice full pads 3 days a week. and on those days it is is full go live hitting in team drills, in individual drills, in special teams. Thursday we do pro pads and wrap up only.
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Post by coachsky on Apr 9, 2009 10:07:42 GMT -6
In Spring and Summer Camp we will go full speed on tackling drills two to three days a week and have them hit very hard. We have two rules:
- All tackling is high wrap
- We try not to take the ball carrier to the ground
We have at least one scrimmage session in Spring that we go live hitting except QB but we keep it to less than 30 plays. In the Spring we hit live at team camp and schedule at least two other 80 play scrimmages against other schools so we get plenty of live hitting in.
In the fall we go live hitting for a 20 to 30 plays at 3 of our scrimmages. We also do some live hitting in specialized tackling or board drills as a competition.
We would only hit live during season if we felt like our team had huge issues with being soft and not tackling well.
Tackling and Toughness are a mentality that you teach. When someone clobbers someone in practice or a drills coaches need to "go off' they need to make sure your kids know you love hard hitting. With that being said you also need to treat your kids like "trained assassins". Let them know you are confident that they will bring havoc, but let them know that you can't let them loose every day, because someone will get hurt!
We also tell our kids that great athletes can simulate a "kill shot" and then let up at the last moment. So we want to see them in positions every scrimmage where they could really lay a shot on people. I've seen our best LBer actually picks up RB's and carries them 10 yards upfield as a way of showing he could have slaughtered them. Our SS loves to scream as he is coming in for a shot and then will just shove off on a receiver.
We had a kid about 6 years who is playing MLB this year, who broke his ankle going live as a Sophomore, on the last play of the day. "One more play". Ne never played football again. He could have gone to any D1 school for football. He'll be a multi-millionaire in the next couple years, so I guess it worked out for the best.
Our staff is very superstitious and cautious about when and how much live stuff we do. Go watch what D1 schools do, what Pro's do. The better the athlete, the better the program, the better the coaching, the less live hitting you need. IMHO. You can expect and demand toughness without beatinng the crap outta each other. I also LOVE having S-tackling sled. Kids can tackle hard as part of every defensive drill and they never hurt themselves or another player.
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Post by CoachDaniel on Apr 9, 2009 11:01:46 GMT -6
Its real easy to do keep tackling to a minimum with good tacklers, but weaker tacklers need more time. It would be nice to have some guys thud and some guys tackle!
Individual periods - we never go to the ground, maybe once every 2-3 weeks, and every time we do, I think "What a stupid idea this was" pretty soon after it starts.
Group periods - I like going full speed on an inside drill or half-line stuff, there are fewer bodies flying around but it simulates a game situation pretty well.
7 on 7 is always thud, and Team goes full speed twice during the week.
If you have good tacklers, and you can go less, do it. I'd find out the fewest amount of live tackles I can have during the week to still be successful in the game, and never do more. I'm not smart enough to do it less with what we had last season, but its a priority to me.
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Post by ramsfootball on Apr 9, 2009 12:02:57 GMT -6
With my 8-9's we spend at least 15min each practice doing full speed take downs. No more than 30 mins total Ex. Ex 15min position drills and 15min live scrimmage. At this age, in my oppinion it's almost the only reason why young kids want to come to practice is to hit. Certainly not the sprints.
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Post by wingtol on Apr 9, 2009 15:00:19 GMT -6
We feel you play like you practice so we get after it during the regular season at least two days of the week. We are quick with the whistles but we def. get the hitting in during the season. Now of course we keep a good eye on the team as the year goes on and throttle back on hitting but still go live for a portion of every practice.
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Post by windigo on Apr 9, 2009 15:50:46 GMT -6
You play like you practice. One thing I knew when I started coaching was that every good team I played on practiced full speed and played hard against each other. Every bad team I ever played on hated going full speed and would complain when one player was practicing too hard. As a coach I preach that our hardest opponent should be each other.
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Post by td4tc on Apr 9, 2009 16:43:18 GMT -6
John Gagliardi (winningest coach in NCAA history ; look him up) has never hit in practice.he says" by the time they get to me they know how to hit.i want to teach them to be in the proper position and area.why would i protect my QB with no hitting in practice and then subject my all american LB to multiple hits"
was food for thought when i heard him speak.truly amazing guy.having said that we "thud" mostly ie quick whistles and no leg wraps but we still hit
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Post by doctorx on Apr 9, 2009 17:17:33 GMT -6
All I know is that I lost more kids in practice to serious injuries, then in a game
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Post by airman on Apr 9, 2009 17:21:19 GMT -6
John Gagliardi (winningest coach in NCAA history ; look him up) has never hit in practice.he says" by the time they get to me they know how to hit.i want to teach them to be in the proper position and area.why would i protect my QB with no hitting in practice and then subject my all american LB to multiple hits" was food for thought when i heard him speak.truly amazing guy.having said that we "thud" mostly ie quick whistles and no leg wraps but we still hit you also have to consider the situation Gagliardi is in. he coaches at an all mens college and has 185 player on the roster. He can just pull and plug in. That said they do hit each other just they only wear shoulder pads. |
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zbessac
Sophomore Member
Posts: 149
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Post by zbessac on Apr 9, 2009 17:48:50 GMT -6
I was at a clinic recently and heard a coach explain how his team tackles in practice. As the ball carrier approaches the tackler, the tackler lines up as if he is going to hit the ball carrier, but then side step the ball carrier and tackles just air. The coach ( Butch Jones from UCM) said their tackling has gotten a lot better because this way really works on getting into position to make the correct tackle.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Apr 10, 2009 6:15:39 GMT -6
John Gagliardi (winningest coach in NCAA history ; look him up) has never hit in practice.he says" by the time they get to me they know how to hit.i want to teach them to be in the proper position and area.why would i protect my QB with no hitting in practice and then subject my all american LB to multiple hits" was food for thought when i heard him speak.truly amazing guy.having said that we "thud" mostly ie quick whistles and no leg wraps but we still hit Not one of my kids could play at that level - they wouldnt see the field. Sooooooo, we are going to hit until my kids hit with confidence and desire. Once they get it, we will back off to prevent injuries. |
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Post by revtaz on Apr 10, 2009 6:59:55 GMT -6
Do you guys feel that later in the season you should back off to keep the kids fresher? It's a long season and you want them to be physically better so they they can play better.
Mike
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Post by touchdownmaker on Apr 10, 2009 7:01:09 GMT -6
We do back off here and we shorten the practices and even stop coming in on saturdays. I think it boosts morale. Practice becomes "shine and polish" in the last 4 weeks.
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Post by husky44 on Apr 10, 2009 8:32:52 GMT -6
Once season begins we are in full pads on Tues./Wed. We have a tackling circuit at the beginning of the session followed by individual and group inside/outside where we work on coverage and run fits. We follow this with team. In team we go "thud" live but no take down, and finish each session with five live plays with take down. On Monday and Thursday where we are not in pads, we begin with a tackling progression where we work on the fundamentals of tackling. This takes ten minutes. We believe that you need to begin every day with some tackling to emphasize and perfect the art.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Apr 11, 2009 9:33:57 GMT -6
Like DoctorX said,
I've lost more kids in to practice injury than in games over the years. All of them in freak accidents where a kid got twisted or something. Actually, I've not lost that many kids over the years anyway.
As the year progresses we do less and less hitting, no reason in it. It's not hard to notice that your team is a little "hitting" rusty in a game though.
But I do believe in drills.
I also believe the linemen must have heavy contact, they are the ones that need to know how to hit.
This is strange but true, and I don't plan to make it the norm:
This past year, because of a thin roster, I didn't scrimmage at all the entire year-not in the Spring and not during the season.
I have no idea why it worked.
We do 3 on 3 ('cause that's how you learn to play football)
We do a tackling circuit, (never to the ground though)
We do a stacked 3 on 3 drill that I got from Florida State.
We work form-tackling a whole bunch in our drills too.
And the linemen beat each other nearly to death.
But I never scrimmaged.
I don't know if it was good or not, just what we did.
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 11, 2009 10:08:20 GMT -6
Once season begins we are in full pads on Tues./Wed. We have a tackling circuit at the beginning of the session followed by individual and group inside/outside where we work on coverage and run fits. We follow this with team. In team we go "thud" live but no take down, But if your blocking is live, how much are you reducing the amount of contact solely by thudding instead of tackling? |
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Apr 11, 2009 13:46:07 GMT -6
Bob,
I'm not sure it's the hitting that is the issue, but the twisting and angles that occur in tackling to the ground.
Man, I am no expert on anything, so don't take me word for it.
It also has alot to do with "who" gets hurt. We all know that there are "plowhorses" and "thoroughbreds" on a ball team.
They cannot be used the same way, I didn't say "treated" the same say-you cannot have favorites.
But these linemen can take and give much more damage than my speed players can.
Just a natural thing here, not expert at all,
-You lose a linemen you'll say, "man, feel sorry for that kid."
-You lose your best runningback or receiver and you'll say, "OMG, what are we going to do!"
So there is a difference there.
OJW
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Post by footballguru99 on Apr 11, 2009 21:37:00 GMT -6
We go full pads on Tuesday and Wednessday, Shells the rest of the week
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bjones
Freshmen Member
Posts: 84 
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Post by bjones on Apr 12, 2009 18:35:16 GMT -6
Outlaw, what is the 3 on 3 drill you got from Florida State? Explain.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Apr 12, 2009 21:33:10 GMT -6
We love it,
got it from Chuch Amato from FSU.
--------------------B-----------------------------
--------------------------------------------------
----------------^--OL--^------C----------------
--------------------DL--------------------------
------------^----------------^-----------------
-------------------FB-------------C------------
-------------------LB---------------------------
--------^-------------------------^--------------
-------------------WR----------------C------------
-------------------DB-----------------------------
-----^---------------------------------^---------
Ball carrier runs inside the cones.
This is one of the finest ways to see kids in actual 1 on 1 situations.
Coaches are right there, you can see much better than the standard 3 on 3.
We like this better than that standard 3 on 3 or Oklhoma.
This drill is considered a Defensive drill, but both sides like it.
OJW
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Post by jpdaley25 on Apr 13, 2009 6:16:45 GMT -6
We are 100% full live contact in everything pertaining to defense. We back off the contact on offense. We have contact Mon.-Wed in season and we do back off as the season progresses. I think the OL and DL can have a lot more contact because they don't usually have the high speed impacts that the skill guys have.
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Post by wingtol on Apr 13, 2009 7:08:15 GMT -6
We love it, got it from Chuch Amato from FSU. --------------------B----------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ----------------^--OL--^------C---------------- --------------------DL-------------------------- ------------^----------------^----------------- -------------------FB-------------C------------ -------------------LB--------------------------- --------^-------------------------^-------------- -------------------WR----------------C------------ -------------------DB----------------------------- -----^---------------------------------^--------- Ball carrier runs inside the cones. This is one of the finest ways to see kids in actual 1 on 1 situations. Coaches are right there, you can see much better than the standard 3 on 3. We like this better than that standard 3 on 3 or Oklhoma. This drill is considered a Defensive drill, but both sides like it. OJW I am guessing that they all start on the whistle and try and either block or tackle the ball carrier at the same time? How far part are the players? Looks like a great drill I want to give it a try. |
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Apr 13, 2009 7:46:40 GMT -6
wingtol,
we don't START anything on a whistle, we only STOP things with a whistle, so the whole thing starts with a snap count.
Everybody blocking everybody, ball carrier trying not to get killed.
We don't take anyone "to the ground."
What is great about this drill is you can have every position coach working with his kid on every aspect of their position.
From stance to start and every phase.
The main reason is the way the drill is layed out.
It's hard sometimes to coach 3 on 3. It's hard sometimes to see what is going on and then the coach has be behind the kid.
Being to the side of the player is really helpful.
It IS a defensive drill, so with no doubleteam or combo blocks you have to pick the matchups carefully.
Also vary the distance the back if to the offensive lineman, I've had Backs ask for different depths.
I've also found runningbacks this way. If they can make cuts and moves, and have acceleration, you can easily see it with this drill.
Spacing of the cones is personal preference. It might be too close or too wide depending you the skill and age of your kids.
Start out close and if the ball carrier can't score, then widen.
If they are scoring too much, narrow the cone down.
We also will make 1 or 2 of the groups stand still if we want to work with 1 particular section.
The players are stacked 5 yards apart.
We adjust that sometimes too.
I saw this at Ohio State's 3 on 3.
The coach holds the jersey of the DB so he can't get a quick jump. I've never done that, but it might be fun.
Like I said, the skill level determines what you do.
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Post by gunrun on Apr 13, 2009 9:06:04 GMT -6
OJW,
Are the DB's and WR's right in front of each other to start with or can you back up the DB's?
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Apr 13, 2009 16:31:11 GMT -6
I usually put them right on top of each other, so the WR can practice his stalk block.
But I can see putting them back a little apart might help the WR.
Haven't thought of that.
Thanks,
OJW
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Post by 44dlcoach on Apr 13, 2009 21:15:04 GMT -6
We got a similar drill from Cal a couple of years ago, except it was only two levels. One thing I really like about it is it helps defenders understand using the blocker to squeeze the opposite gap. Particularly outside linebackers and DB's, it puts them in a position to use the sideline as an extra defender in a drill, which I feel is something that not enough HS DB's grasp in game situations.
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Post by lassen on Apr 15, 2009 6:36:56 GMT -6
I personally believe in alot of hitting.
In a non-football culture such as Denmark, I think hitting and getting hit alot gets you used to the contact that many of our players have never had before.
Though I do more of it Pre-season. In season we have games every week, so sometimes if kids are tired af games I will ease up on the contact.
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Post by mitch on Apr 15, 2009 8:43:36 GMT -6
IMO, when you boil this game down to its fundamental element, hitting the opponent harder than they hit you is what you find.
I think you'll have a hard time blocking them and tackling them if you aren't WILLING and able to outhit them.
That is why I'm going to do it in practice until I am satisfied we can.
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