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Post by 19delta on Apr 1, 2009 23:24:15 GMT -6
I'm a first-year head coach. I met with the basketball coach earlier this week to discuss weight room usage. He was very upset with me because I have been telling kids who come into the weight room that, if they want to train, they either need to do what the kids I am coaching are doing or they need to have one of their coaches in there with them.
So, I'm not telling non-football players that they can't use the weight room. What I am telling kids is that, if they are going to use the weight room, they need to be properly supervised and coached.
Basically, what he wants to do is for me to let his guys come in the weight room and work out on their own. He wants the kids to do the "basketball" workout and not have to do the workout I have the football players on.
Here's my points against what the basketball coach is saying:
1) All kids who are in the weight room have to be properly supervised. If I am working with a group of kids on squats or cleans or whatever, I cannot properly coach a group of kids on the other side of the weight room who are doing dumbbell bench presses. So, there is, in my mind, a HUGE safety and liability issue.
2) If kids who aren't under my "control" (ie:, non-football players) are in the weight room, without their coach, they have a tendency to do things that really irk me...talk on cell phones, in and out of the weight room getting water, hooting and hollering out the window at girls, not working really hard, playing graba$$.
So, for me, it is a safety and discipline issue. If kids are going to use the weight room, that is fine. But if those kids are going to be under my supervision, they are going to work out with the guys I am training and conduct themselves the way I want them to act.
I should add that I really don't care what they are doing if their coach is down there with them. If their coach is down their, those kids are HIS problem, not mine. The only time this is an issue is when me (or my assistant coaches) are the only adults in the weight room.
Am I being unreasonable and making a mountain out of a molehill?
Also, for almost the last ten years, the football program has really been the a$$-end of the boys' sports programs (2 wins in the last 3 years, last season they won more than 2 games was 2001).
This particular basketball coach is the "best" boys sports coach in the building even though he has won a grand total of 22 games in the last 4 years including a 4-22 barnburner this season.
His big contention is that they have "always done things this way in the past" (he has been there for 4 years). My contention is, that is the problem! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
The other thing is that people like my assistant coaches keep telling me that we "need" this guy...we "need" him to support our program. Well...looking at the football program's progress since 2001, it doesn't look like the guy's "support" is worth a darn any way.
So again...am I being unreasonable? How would you guys approach this? How should I present this to the AD?
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Post by coachorr on Apr 1, 2009 23:52:22 GMT -6
"Am I being unreasonable and making a mountain out of a molehill?" Nope. If he wants the BBall kids to do it his way, then he needs to be in there. Otherwise you are the guy in charge.
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Post by coachorr on Apr 1, 2009 23:53:28 GMT -6
Would it be any different if you were teaching a weights class? Safety first, then discipline and respect.
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bgj
Sophomore Member
Posts: 154
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Post by bgj on Apr 2, 2009 0:16:59 GMT -6
Not at all, we've had the same problem. We require each kid who uses the weight room to go through a training session and be checked off etc. and be supervised by their coach. Otherwise they do our football program. Most of the HC's of the other programs are happy that we take care of the weight room which allows us to use our program.
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Post by tiger46 on Apr 2, 2009 1:42:58 GMT -6
19delta, Your first point covered it all. There are safety and liability issues at hand. You're not being unreasonable. But, if I were in your position, I'd see this as a buy-in opportunity. You mentioned that football has been the butt-end of a very bad sports program. If these non-football players start seeing the gains your football players are making as compared to them, they will start to see the benefits of you insisting that they lift properly. If you insist that they lift your way and get them to do so, you have a chance to put a bug in their ear about playing football. Teen-age boys with muscles are just itching to find ways to flex them.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Apr 2, 2009 3:16:30 GMT -6
I think you are spot on, the fooling around and distracting behavior is not something you should have to deal with. What is the BIG PICTURE here though? do any other sports coaches have to supervise the weight room and do they require your footballers to do their workouts?
I run our weight room and I posted a big sign that says that no unapproved excercises are permitted. I mean if some yahoo comes in and says "i got to do 300 twistneckabcrunchgutslimmerkneejerkers because it says so right here that its the spartan 300 workout used by these jacked guys in the movie" I might take a peek and see if its something reasonable or some silly thing that is going to harm the kid.
Very rarely do I have to reject a kids lift though just yesterday I barked a group of kids pretty hard who were stacking weights on a kids back (pushups) because I saw the potential for the weights to slide off and crush the kids fingers or some sort of back/ab injury etc. kids will do stupid things if you let them for sure.
The thing to do, make sure youre not getting into this in front of the students and talk to the AD, is there a policy in place? theres always a chance that the AD doesnt even know a policy exists if hes new. perhaps the hoops coach is pulling a fast one on you and he knows full well that he or his assistants have to be there despite "what was always done" (do not believe that).
In the end, can you work it out so that everyone wins? The ideal world is for you to build a united front with the basketball coach. he should say to you "if my guys are screwing around, get back to me, I want to know about it, heres the workout they are on" - nothing more is needed and nothing less is acceptable.
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Post by superpower on Apr 2, 2009 5:09:14 GMT -6
Stick to your guns, 19delta. You are right on.
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Post by realdawg on Apr 2, 2009 5:18:14 GMT -6
Not unreasonable. As a matter of fact, by forcing his kids to do your workout, you are doing HIM a favor. You know if kids come in the weight room and do their own lifts all they will do is bench and curls. They will not squat nor clean. I cant see making a better player at any sport doing only bench and curls. However, are squats and cleans beneficial to basketball players?-You bet! Try selling him on this.
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Post by cnunley on Apr 2, 2009 5:43:23 GMT -6
I think you are doing what is right. What I do in the weight room is right after school we have "Strength and Conditioning" Of course it can not be called Football Lifting because that is illegal and it is open to ANY one that wants to participate. Guys, Girls, ANYONE. And we do have several girls come to lift. The number 1 rule is they must do MY program. MY program is basically a functional football weight training program but it is benificial for all of the schools athletes. This is immediately after school. If students want to do their "Beach" lifts, then they can come another time. And the great thing is I control what time the "Open Lifting" times are. And I make them as inconvenient as possible. They come back to school between 6 or 7pm with a random coach. Crazy how those "beach lifters" find it easier to do what I want instead of their own program now.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 2, 2009 6:08:30 GMT -6
ok, 22 wins in 4 years in basketball is PUTRID.
Things to consider: 1) Before you go to battle, make sure all your ducks are lined up. As TDmaker suggested, make darn sure that none of YOUR guys are working out under others supervision. You never want to make a case and then be accused of being a hypocrite.
2) What is the school policy on lifting? Do all kids require supervision? (Probably). If so, are you the ONLY coach providing this supervision? Is that part of your job (weight room supervision) or something you are doing to improve your program? Why is HE not in the weight room? Is he coaching another sport? Does he have assts? If you are "the weight room guy" mandated by the administration. ...the situation is a bit more complex. If you are simply doing extra, and others are trying to piggy back on YOUR extra effort, seems like an easy battle to fight. I am there, My way or highway.
Sounds like one of those situations where the Bball guy is a slappy, he runs a slappy program...(4 wins a year) BUT you don't have the clout yet to expose this slappiness. You don't by any chance, come with a sterling resume laden with championships do you..LOL. That would help.
Somethign else to consider, you need to get your assistants in line RIGHT NOW. They need to realize that you don't "need" anyone, especially a guy who wins 5-6 games a year out of 30.
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Post by coachveer on Apr 2, 2009 6:15:14 GMT -6
Hey Coach, I think you are right on with this. But, you may want to talk to your AD sooner rather then later. It would be nice to know that you have his full support before things go much further.
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Post by jgordon1 on Apr 2, 2009 6:17:02 GMT -6
Of course you are correct. I have made this proposal at the two high schools I have been at. I failed convincing both AD's but I still think it is a valid idea. My idea to them was... hey, let's all do the Bigger , Faster , Stronger program.. is it the best program out there?? I don't know and I doubt it ....BUT, it is a sellable proven plan... IMO... any overarching plan is better than no plan at all. Sounds like your school needs a lifting makeover... maybe this is an idea for a new reality TV show....LOL anyway...The whole school hears the same terminology, you can actually get safety certified, they come to your school to demo. Just my 2 cents
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Post by realdawg on Apr 2, 2009 6:33:36 GMT -6
DC-you sound too much like a southerner-you need to get out of the cold Ohio climate and come on down to the Carolinas or Georgia!
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Post by bigm0073 on Apr 2, 2009 6:45:10 GMT -6
No coach supervision .. Well they have no leg to stand on. If they are not supervised and do not follow your instruction they must leave. Lazy B-Ball coach had any sense the kids would workout with you and they would be better for it. Lift with you guys for an hour then run some "open gym". That sounds like a no brainer.
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newb
Sophomore Member
Posts: 191
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Post by newb on Apr 2, 2009 9:15:20 GMT -6
Why not put a video camera in the weightroom? That way you have proof that they are really just messing around and not doing any beneficial lifts. Just make sure to include video of the kids doing YOUR workout so he can see how hard your kids work compared to his.
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Post by dubber on Apr 2, 2009 9:35:56 GMT -6
You're right.
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Post by dubber on Apr 2, 2009 9:36:41 GMT -6
BTW, if those basketball players are in the weightroom anyways, why not recruit the piss outta them?
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Post by gdoggwr on Apr 2, 2009 9:42:27 GMT -6
You are completely right.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 2, 2009 9:54:13 GMT -6
This guy is a tool-bag
You're right- that's my philosophy as well. If they're in there with me they do what I want them to do or they come in with their coach at a different scheduled time slot. Under my supervision they do what I need them to do...
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Post by bulldogoption on Apr 2, 2009 10:27:58 GMT -6
You are right............support from admin will make your fight easier.
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Post by craines10 on Apr 2, 2009 10:39:06 GMT -6
We have the same problem with our track coach sort of. He has a personal resentment towards our HC andin turn he recently made a rule that his shot and discus throwers aka our D1 defensive lineman and also our offensive line could no longer lift weights before there practice started at 4:00. Basically from 2:45-4:00 they are waiting on the shot/discus coach. He says that during football season he doesnt come tell them he wants them to run a mile a day, so why should they be lifting for football. He is hurting the kids more than anything over a belief that we tell kids not to run track when we have told him and had had kids tell him that we never do that, we actually encourage them to run track.
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Post by mitch on Apr 2, 2009 11:11:48 GMT -6
Craines-
Something you just said irks me to no end about the view coaches from other sports have on lifting.
"why should they be lifting for football?"
Weight training is for developing athletes and injury prevention, not for football. When will other coaches come out of the dark ages and realize this?
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Post by phantom on Apr 2, 2009 11:25:03 GMT -6
We have the same problem with our track coach sort of. He has a personal resentment towards our HC andin turn he recently made a rule that his shot and discus throwers aka our D1 defensive lineman and also our offensive line could no longer lift weights before there practice started at 4:00. Basically from 2:45-4:00 they are waiting on the shot/discus coach. He says that during football season he doesnt come tell them he wants them to run a mile a day, so why should they be lifting for football. He is hurting the kids more than anything over a belief that we tell kids not to run track when we have told him and had had kids tell him that we never do that, we actually encourage them to run track. The track coach doesn't want his weight throwers lifting weights? Now THAT'S unreasonable.
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Post by coachorr on Apr 2, 2009 12:01:13 GMT -6
Mitch, It is almost like saying, nutrition for football is not okay for other sports.
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Post by mariner42 on Apr 2, 2009 12:54:45 GMT -6
We have the same problem with our track coach sort of. He has a personal resentment towards our HC andin turn he recently made a rule that his shot and discus throwers aka our D1 defensive lineman and also our offensive line could no longer lift weights before there practice started at 4:00. Basically from 2:45-4:00 they are waiting on the shot/discus coach. He says that during football season he doesnt come tell them he wants them to run a mile a day, so why should they be lifting for football. He is hurting the kids more than anything over a belief that we tell kids not to run track when we have told him and had had kids tell him that we never do that, we actually encourage them to run track. That's gotta be the dumbest thing I've heard in a while.
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Post by tango on Apr 2, 2009 13:01:59 GMT -6
Does he know anything about weight lifting? What does their program look like? I would stick to my guns but if he knows anything about lifting, you could add some of his stuff and make him happy. Like jump squats, jump rope, or anything that would also benefit you. His program probably came out of a magazine.
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Post by gdoggwr on Apr 2, 2009 13:05:19 GMT -6
We have the same problem with our track coach sort of. He has a personal resentment towards our HC andin turn he recently made a rule that his shot and discus throwers aka our D1 defensive lineman and also our offensive line could no longer lift weights before there practice started at 4:00. Basically from 2:45-4:00 they are waiting on the shot/discus coach. He says that during football season he doesnt come tell them he wants them to run a mile a day, so why should they be lifting for football. He is hurting the kids more than anything over a belief that we tell kids not to run track when we have told him and had had kids tell him that we never do that, we actually encourage them to run track. That is the craziest thing I've ever heard. talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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Post by calicoachh on Apr 2, 2009 14:15:17 GMT -6
i tell our basketball coach that the BFS lifting program that we use in football was designed to be a basketball lifting program.
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Post by coachwilley on Apr 2, 2009 14:20:53 GMT -6
19Delta,
Can you give us a little more information as to the structure of your strength program. Meaning, are you a football coach volunteering his time for his team, or are you getting paid to be the strength coach or monitor. I think this makes a big difference. If your volunteering for your team than obviously you are right on the money. If your being compensated than you might have a larger/broader responsibility to others outside your program.
We went to a mandated schoolwide program this spring and I like that concept. Then it's easy to go "My Way or the Highway" type of thing regardless of the student's sport.
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Post by 19delta on Apr 2, 2009 19:11:32 GMT -6
ok, 22 wins in 4 years in basketball is PUTRID. Things to consider: 1) Before you go to battle, make sure all your ducks are lined up. As TDmaker suggested, make darn sure that none of YOUR guys are working out under others supervision. You never want to make a case and then be accused of being a hypocrite. Good point, Coach. Right now, we are lifting 4 days a week and we have at least 2 football coaches in there at all times. I have told the kids, the AD, and the other sport coaches that under no circumstances should they allow a football player in the weight room unless he is supervised and then, that football player must do whatever workout that the kids in the weight room are doing. 2) What is the school policy on lifting? Do all kids require supervision? (Probably). If so, are you the ONLY coach providing this supervision? Is that part of your job (weight room supervision) or something you are doing to improve your program? Why is HE not in the weight room? Is he coaching another sport? Does he have assts? If you are "the weight room guy" mandated by the administration. ...the situation is a bit more complex. If you are simply doing extra, and others are trying to piggy back on YOUR extra effort, seems like an easy battle to fight. I am there, My way or highway. That's the problem...there really is no established policy. In the past, what has happened is that each coach (football, basketball, wrestling, baseball, etc, etc) has taken a night to supervise the weight rooom. And, by "supervise", I mean sitting at the desk reading a newspaper. Sounds like one of those situations where the Bball guy is a slappy, he runs a slappy program...(4 wins a year) BUT you don't have the clout yet to expose this slappiness. You don't by any chance, come with a sterling resume laden with championships do you..LOL. That would help. Coach - if I had that on my resume, I probably wouldn't be coaching here! Somethign else to consider, you need to get your assistants in line RIGHT NOW. They need to realize that you don't "need" anyone, especially a guy who wins 5-6 games a year out of 30. Actually, this is a strength. We have a really good staff and all of us are on the same page. I had to fire a couple of guys to get us to that point, but we have pretty solid staff unity so far.
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