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Post by jerbyrd72 on Mar 22, 2009 12:18:03 GMT -6
Do any of you give your players an IV at halftime? I talked to a coach in Georgia at a big 5A school outside of Alanta and he said he would give it to 8 or 9 guys at halftime. "Like clockwork" ...they would find a different gear with 7 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter.
Do you do this at your school on a regular basis? What are the steps that you had to go through to get this accomplished? Does the head coach decide who gets them? Do any of the other players feel like they are not as important because they don't get an IV? How much did it cost? Was it a distraction at halftime? Has this practice back fired on anyone (infection.....blood everywhere)?Do any of you feel like this practice is unethical/unfair?
I have never done this, but at my last school I was checking into the possibility of doing it. We were a small school and I had about 4 or 5 guys that played a lot on both sides of the ball. The parents were for it. Principal called it "over the top." He basically told me to do about 10 different things and come back to him with my findings. It was three weeks into the season and I did not have the time to follow through on his request.
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Post by coachbdud on Mar 22, 2009 13:05:41 GMT -6
seems kind of unethical to me, i see lawsuit eveyrwhere. What gives the coach the right to put an IV into my son?
although i do see the advantage it could give, but seems like it would also be expensive, 10 games a year, 7 kids a game, 70+ IVs a season...
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Post by coachcathey on Mar 22, 2009 13:08:20 GMT -6
You have to be certified to be able to IVs. Not all ATs are certified to do that.
The whole process is expensive. They better have parental consent as well.
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Post by mitch on Mar 22, 2009 13:41:16 GMT -6
I would love to give my self one after a hard night.
Heard it was instant hangover relief.
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Post by poorbob on Mar 22, 2009 13:50:09 GMT -6
Uhh...isn't that what drinking water or gatorade is for? What's the difference between IVs and drinking an electrolyte drink?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 22, 2009 14:18:42 GMT -6
Wow, excessive to say the least. This is high school football right? a 24 minute half of play requires an IV? please.
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Post by champ93 on Mar 22, 2009 14:44:22 GMT -6
I've considered lobotomies for some, but never an IV.
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Post by phantom on Mar 22, 2009 16:23:24 GMT -6
Wow, excessive to say the least. This is high school football right? a 24 minute half of play requires an IV? please. In Georgia, particularly early in the season, it might. |
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ccox16
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by ccox16 on Mar 22, 2009 16:25:17 GMT -6
we used to give a couple of kids pedalite (sp?) but that was only because they were prone to cramping
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Post by jerbyrd72 on Mar 22, 2009 16:39:40 GMT -6
just answering the questions....
Coachbdud - nothing gives me the right to give your son an IV if you do not consent. But as the head coach I want to do everything I can (except cheat or break the law) to help give my players and the school the best opportunity to have success. Of course it is not the coach giving the IV, but a person that has a lot of experience and has the permission of a doctor.
Poorbob - have you ever seen a college player or a pro player going into the locker room because of cramps? They go in to give them an IV. Why do they do that instead of popping the top on a gatorade or a bottle? Maybe some one on here with a background in athletic training or medicine can give us a breakdown on why IV's are better than gatorade/water.
touchdownmaker - An IV is not required - obviously - to play a half of football. However, I'm in Louisiana. To say the least it is very hot in late August and September. We have a heat timeout somewhere at the 1/2 way mark over every quarter during the month of September.
Another thing to think about....two kids on the same team and playing the same position are being recruited.....both are susceptible to cramps.....one of the parents gives coaches the OK to give his son an IV. The other parent is coachbdud and disagrees with the practice. The college coach is watching a game to see which player is going to be able to play at a high level for four quarters.
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Post by wingtol on Mar 22, 2009 16:52:29 GMT -6
Here I thought this was a topic about trying to install Inside Veer at half time. LOL
I would guess that if you have a team dr. and parental consent it would be ok, if it were absolutely necessary. Not sure if I would be giving them out just for the heck of it. I have to agree that even up here in PA it can get pretty damn hot the first few games of the year. Esp when your on turf and that sun is still up or Lord forbid you have to play an afternoon game. I have seen some pretty nasty stuff due to the heat even here in PA.
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Post by airraider on Mar 22, 2009 17:26:35 GMT -6
I think the biggest issue would be having someone who was certified to administer one.
I worked on the local fire department when I was in high school and I was a certified first responder. The only thing an EMT basic could do that we could not was place a traction spint onto someone.
But, an EMT could not even administer an IV. You had to have your intermediate certification to give an IV.. Now I think they have an IV certification that an EMT basic can get to allow them to give an IV.. but still you see how much goes into it.
Being in Louisiana, I can see the need for sure..
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Post by op4shadow on Mar 22, 2009 17:36:09 GMT -6
i'm a certified combat lifesaver in the army national guard. were i don't have a clue as to how expensive IV bags are, or the tubes, or the needles...i do know how good IV's can be. for those of you who ask if it's needed for one half of high school football, i'll ask this question: do you have eyes on your players all day making sure they're hydrating enough prior to a game? do i think it's excessive, not sure. but i do know that pumping some iv fluid into a kid ain't gonna hurt anyone. to be certified combat lifesaver, we have to get injected by another soldier, and it never made a difference.
why is it better than gatorade? because it's delivered directly into your system. you have to wait for electrolytes to be absorbed into your body once in the stomach, where as the IV is pumped directly into your blood stream. again, beneficial if your kid is experiencing cramps or worse. in hot states, i would feel safer if the Athletic Trainers were certified in this, and had it as an option. we are seeing ppl of all levels die on the field because of heat stroke (see at least one every year). yeah, the pros are usually taking something that didn't help out, but lets not forget that our kids take stuff too. Creatine will dehydrate you in a hurry if you don't pay attention to detail, and most high school athletes don't.
i feel it's a good thing to have, but i wouldn't be using it every game just because.
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Post by airraider on Mar 22, 2009 18:57:39 GMT -6
i'm a certified combat lifesaver in the army national guard. were i don't have a clue as to how expensive IV bags are, or the tubes, or the needles...i do know how good IV's can be. for those of you who ask if it's needed for one half of high school football, i'll ask this question: do you have eyes on your players all day making sure they're hydrating enough prior to a game? do i think it's excessive, not sure. but i do know that pumping some iv fluid into a kid ain't gonna hurt anyone. to be certified combat lifesaver, we have to get injected by another soldier, and it never made a difference. why is it better than gatorade? because it's delivered directly into your system. you have to wait for electrolytes to be absorbed into your body once in the stomach, where as the IV is pumped directly into your blood stream. again, beneficial if your kid is experiencing cramps or worse. in hot states, i would feel safer if the Athletic Trainers were certified in this, and had it as an option. we are seeing ppl of all levels die on the field because of heat stroke (see at least one every year). yeah, the pros are usually taking something that didn't help out, but lets not forget that our kids take stuff too. Creatine will dehydrate you in a hurry if you don't pay attention to detail, and most high school athletes don't. i feel it's a good thing to have, but i wouldn't be using it every game just because. That brings up another VERY good point.. What about during 2-a-days? During the break? Now that this IV could help keep a kid from passing out and possibly dieing due to being dehydrated.. does that make it any more needed? Its just normal saline.. its not like you are pumping drugs into their system. |
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Post by olinecoach61 on Mar 23, 2009 7:28:35 GMT -6
If your kids can't get through a game in the heat, you didn't prepare them. There is no need for halftime IV's unless a doctor or trainer says to me that this kid needs one medically. And if he does need one then he is not going back onto the field for me.
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Post by CoachDaniel on Mar 23, 2009 8:31:35 GMT -6
If your kids can't get through a game in the heat, you didn't prepare them. I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. I don't know the science of it, but some kids are just prone to cramping. The only way we've been able to get one of them through the season is to hunt him during the day Thursday AND Friday and feed him Gatorades, waters, etc. and he still cramped at halftime occasionally. I'd prefer our way to an IV, but as mentioned, they do it in College. Everything trickles down. I played HS ball in Georgia (could have been at that school?), we didn't get IVs but those first few games are incredibly hot. Lots of cramping, I feel like it may be reasonable for some. Also, it probably is expensive - but it is football in Georgia. Here in VA we'd never get that money, but the further south you go, its a different world. |
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Post by ajreaper on Mar 23, 2009 10:18:21 GMT -6
I coach in the Phx metro area of Az. and needless to say it's very hot in Aug. and Sept. and we are fortunate it's a dry heat unlike our southern friends where the humidity also is very high and hydration is a huge issue for both games and practice but I do think IV's at half time might be a bit much. We educate them on hydrating during the day- you know who plays football on our campus because they are dragging around a gallon jug of water with them at school during the season.
In my mind sticking a needle in a kid at half time just seems wrong at the high school level. Rotate your players heavily early in the season, educate them and their parents on the importance of being properly hydrated and monitor them through out the week- do you see them lugging around water/gatorade or not?
Honestly it's been hot and humid in mmany places forever and high school teams have managed to get through it without IV's for decades why do we need to start now?
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Post by olinecoach61 on Mar 23, 2009 10:22:05 GMT -6
If your kids can't get through a game in the heat, you didn't prepare them. I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. I don't know the science of it, but some kids are just prone to cramping. The only way we've been able to get one of them through the season is to hunt him during the day Thursday AND Friday and feed him Gatorades, waters, etc. and he still cramped at halftime occasionally. I'd prefer our way to an IV, but as mentioned, they do it in College. Everything trickles down. I played HS ball in Georgia (could have been at that school?), we didn't get IVs but those first few games are incredibly hot. Lots of cramping, I feel like it may be reasonable for some. Also, it probably is expensive - but it is football in Georgia. Here in VA we'd never get that money, but the further south you go, its a different world. They're prone to cramping because: 1. They are not in shape 2. They are not hydrating properly 3. They are drinking booze 4. Medical reason: send him to a doctor and figure it out. We're talking high school football. If its too hot, maybe you shouldn't be playing? By the way, in college your dealing with men old enough to make their own decisions, a 15 year old shouldn't be put in this position. From the American Orthopaedic Society For Sports Medicine: Cramps usually go away on their own without seeing a doctor. Stop doing whatever activity triggered the cramp. Gently stretch and massage the cramping muscle, holding it in stretched position until the cramp stops. Apply heat to tense/tight muscles, or cold to sore/tender muscles. Nothing about IVs |
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Post by ajreaper on Mar 23, 2009 10:42:31 GMT -6
They're prone to cramping because:
1. They are not in shape
2. They are not hydrating properly
3. They are drinking booze
4. Medical reason: send him to a doctor and figure it out.
I have a runningback graduating this spring who had issues with cramping through out his high school carreer- he's not lazy by any means, trains year around relentlessly, had parents who were very much involved in proper nutrition, diet, hydrating etc and saw doctors at least 1/2 a dozen times and still had cramping issues. It's not a good idea to generalize about such things when you do not know the specifics.
Incidently he's going to ASU on scholarship so he was obviously a difference maker for us and all concerned were very much interested in finding a solution (player, parents, coaches, athletic trainer, doctors etc) and none was found.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Mar 23, 2009 12:40:11 GMT -6
They're prone to cramping because: 1. They are not in shape 2. They are not hydrating properly 3. They are drinking booze 4. Medical reason: send him to a doctor and figure it out. I have a runningback graduating this spring who had issues with cramping through out his high school carreer- he's not lazy by any means, trains year around relentlessly, had parents who were very much involved in proper nutrition, diet, hydrating etc and saw doctors at least 1/2 a dozen times and still had cramping issues. It's not a good idea to generalize about such things when you do not know the specifics. Incidently he's going to ASU on scholarship so he was obviously a difference maker for us and all concerned were very much interested in finding a solution (player, parents, coaches, athletic trainer, doctors etc) and none was found. If you read the whole thread, I have no problem with a kid who has medical issues using IV's. The OP is talking about using IV's as a rule for 7 or more of his players during halftime. I believe #4 I said go see a doctor. We are football coaches not doctors and I will not support coaches who are giving their kids needles at halftime. |
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Post by op4shadow on Mar 23, 2009 15:42:31 GMT -6
i agree with oline coach61. even in the military, we will not stick you until we are worried about you going into shock and/or dying. as a coach, i'm not gonna stick a kid who isn't in bad shape. cramping is part of the game, you just have to deal with it. me saying that IV's will help to rehydrate a kid doesn't mean that i'm doing it or would ever do it. would you give a kid a cortisone shot to allow him to play?? i know that's a jump from IV's, but we have to be thinking about the kid and his well being 1st, wins second.
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Post by Coach Huey on Mar 23, 2009 16:36:14 GMT -6
leave it up to the medical staff. if you have a trainer certified to do this or a team doctor present and they feel it is in the best interest for the kid's health, then they are the ones making that decision. it is NOT done in the best interest of the 'team' or the kid's 'performance'. medical staff may administer if, in their opinion, it is for the kid's health.
in my career have had it done about 3-4 times ... twice because a kid was still recovering from an illness (think one was flu, another was maybe mono or something). another time because the kid just kept locking up. the one that kept having total body cramps did not return to the game. all the decisions were made and the administering done by team doctor.
at no time should "give him an iv so he can play" come into play. wasn't a factor in the decision.
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