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Post by outlawjoseywales on Mar 21, 2009 10:31:10 GMT -6
Dave, what has changed that Neb. hasn't been much of a force in the last 12-15 years?
Has it been the changing game, demographics, coaching schemes, coaching continuiety, eligibility issue changes, school politics, mistakes in dealing with high schools, change in culture...what ?
I remember reading how that Neb. would take "their" demographic (farm boys) and allow them time to grow stronger over a few years before they started. These days, kids don't want to wait several years for their shot.
This falls into the demographic/academic area also. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I remember that back then Neb. allowed partial qualifiers in and the SEC coaches were fussing about that. SEC doesn't allow partial qualifiers any more, but that in those days Neb. did and some of the South's best athletes found their way to Neb. (again, correct me if I'm wrong)
If the school has changed the formula for allowing athletes to get into school, then compounding this with culture issues along with lack of coaching stability-it all spells doom for football strong schools.
Also, school politics plays into lack of success also.
Reading that Coach Osborne is attempting to rebuild damaged connection to high schools tells me something has gone very wrong there.
My Alma Mater had a coach in the mid 1990's that lost all connection to the high school coaches because he was such a jerk. It didn't take but a few years before that program went from undefeated to 3-8. The damage too years to repair.
Thanks OJW
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Post by davecisar on Mar 21, 2009 14:15:53 GMT -6
OJW,
That partial q is such a TINY number, miniscule handful of players.One had dyslexia but with help ended up graduating and doing very well in life. Thats the argument of teams that couldnt win Nat Titles with all the built in benefits of players, $$ and huge populations. 1.7 milllion people in entire state, tons of local kids making good including gobs of walk ons, no one wanted.
Solich had very nice winning mark here and played for a Nat Title. He was fired by AN AD that didnt get it, that thought we should be a Jr NFL team along with his head coach that may be a great coach, but a lousy college coach. You dont take down 176 pictures in the Hall of Fame to put up the pics of a handfull of NFL part timers, you dont NOT recruit walk ons and NOT red shirt players, playing them a handful of downs. You dont promise kids playing time and not have to compete weekly for playing time. You dont have your first team QB in in the 4th quarter when up by 60 points and you dont lose by 60 to tech or 40 to KU when KU hasnt beat you in 40 years. You dont have 2 losing seasons in 4 and have players completely baffled as to what they are supposed to be doing while being ranked `110th of 114 teams in Total Defense in DI, Thats gonna get you canned. Can they go 60-3, doubtful , Coach O isnt coaching anymore. They can however be conisistently competitive and on occaision vie for titles. They are recruiting kids that fit here, not Rivals 5 stars. character kids, kids from winning programs, Nebraska kids, not whats in it for me kids just using college as a bus stop to the NFL> Which is all the previous group was recruiting. Remember Coach O didnt win his first of 3 Titles until his 21st season, it takes awhile for some head coaches to get to that level, he of course had many near misses along the way.
Major improvment last year with little talent in spite of "5" star recruiting classes. NU is recruiting kids that fit and thery redshirted all the freshmen last year but 1-2. YEs they started one game with 4 walkons on defense including 2 at linebacker. No player is sacred, you compete for the job.
Pelini has embraced the past and is willing mentee to Osborne , while he paves a fork of his own in a very sucessful path.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Mar 21, 2009 16:05:32 GMT -6
Dave, thanks that was great.
Auburn is attempting a few of the same ideas of which you spoke. Coach Tuberville did a great job and most appreciate everything he did. However there were some in the Auburn family didn't feel welcome, particulary former head coaches. That happens in every program though.
OJW
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Post by davecisar on Mar 22, 2009 5:27:43 GMT -6
OJW,
None of us are perfect, some just make fewer mistakes than others.
If Navy, Oregon and Air Force can be fairly consistent top 30 teams and teams like Utah, West Virginia, Missouri, Texas Tech, Kansas and Boisie State are in the mix for National Titles here and there, no reason NU can't be in the Hunt.
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Post by coachorr on Mar 22, 2009 5:36:45 GMT -6
Two points to ponder. 1. Teams who score 50+ points a game on average are going to have a propensity to be ranked lower in defense as the TOP may have a tendency to be greater for the opposing team.
2. I am not sure I have ever seen the word mentee used before, but I got the meaning.
PS. How sweet would that be to see the Cornhuskers throw another 95 team together. Gives me goosebumps just thinking about it a T Frazier doesn't come along every day. And don't give me the shpeel about how great the oline was (they were great) but Frazier was extraordinary.
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Post by coachorr on Mar 22, 2009 5:39:15 GMT -6
"The body of this team can come from our state, but the arms and legs are gonna have to come from CA. TX and FL."
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Post by davecisar on Mar 22, 2009 6:35:25 GMT -6
Two points to ponder. 1. Teams who score 50+ points a game on average are going to have a propensity to be ranked lower in defense as the TOP may have a tendency to be greater for the opposing team. 2. I am not sure I have ever seen the word mentee used before, but I got the meaning. PS. How sweet would that be to see the Cornhuskers throw another 95 team together. Gives me goosebumps just thinking about it a T Frazier doesn't come along every day. And don't give me the shpeel about how great the oline was (they were great) but Frazier was extraordinary. True for the most part but: The 94 National Champs started 3 different QBs, ( 1 from rural Kansas, other from rural Nebraska)Frazier only played in a handfull of games that season and didnt start the Bowl game. Still best QB weve ever had followed closely by Ft Worth native Turner Gill. Great QBs and we love out of state kids, BUT 3 Omaha boys have won the Heisman: Johnny Rodgers, Nile Kinnick Eric Crouch Gayle Sayers came close, Omaha Central grad that played for KU. Lots of local starting QBs and RBs most dont know: Scott Frost starting QB for 97 national Championshio team, leading rusher, passer and reciever all local kids that year Ahman Green Calvin Jones Tom Rathman Gerry GDowski Mark Mauer Terry Luck Leodis Flowers David Horne Mark Schelleen Damon Benning Clinton Childs The Mackovickas Jeff Kinney Tony Davis Ken Clark Lots of others
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Post by coachorr on Mar 22, 2009 9:47:16 GMT -6
I did not realize that Sayers was from Omaha. That is pretty amazing. Of course I am comparing it to Idaho as a rural type state, and we just don't have anything close to that type of athlete coming out of here. In basketball it is even worse.
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Post by coachorr on Mar 22, 2009 9:47:17 GMT -6
I did not realize that Sayers was from Omaha. That is pretty amazing. Of course I am comparing it to Idaho as a rural type state, and we just don't have anything close to that type of athlete coming out of here. In basketball it is even worse.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 22, 2009 11:44:40 GMT -6
Yeah, he went south for a new car.
Had Green or Jones stuck around for another season either would have had a shot at a Heisman, but both came out as Juniors. Jones was spliting time with Derek Brown, would have got all the carries ( Brown came out too) etc didnt work out for him in the end. 4 years in NFL
In basketball we havent had an NBA type come from here since man learned how to cultivate weeds LOL
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benrt1
Freshmen Member
"I'm your Huckleberry".
Posts: 56
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Post by benrt1 on Mar 22, 2009 21:46:41 GMT -6
Dave, Great insight to the NU program. In terms of X&O's, what type of guys have they had sign so far and how might this fit their scheme offensively? The defense last year looked impressive, given it being Pelini's inaugural season. I miss seeing Nebraska in the NC hunt on an annual basis. I grew up in a rural area and enjoyed seeing "country boys" be successful.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 23, 2009 0:42:59 GMT -6
Coach, Pelini went after character kids they really concentrated on Texas got a real nice looking QB Cody Green, runner/ thrower who put up some great 4A #s, big kid 6 2" 220. Maybe 8-9 Texas kids and something like 6-7 DBs. Another big RB from Texas and the 2007 Texas player of the year at LB. More defensive players, only 1 reciever. Some nice o-linemen, 2 fast LBs and a bunch of good looking walk-ons. Look for Nebraska DII ball teams to suffer, after 4-5 great seasons of late. He said they were looking for kids from winning programs that knew about committment, hard work, were winners. Fits with the Texas kids they went after. Maybe 1 Juco kid the rest look to be 5 year kids with the exception of Green who is on campus now and in Spring ball. Pelini NEVER talks about individual recruits even after they sign, it's a team deal etc. he wont single anyone out or even answer questions about individual recruits
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Post by davecisar on Mar 23, 2009 7:28:54 GMT -6
Made a mistake, the Plano kid Rex Burkhead may see the field as a frosh. NU needs a kick returner and someone to catch the ball. He had some unreal stats last 3 years at Plano, though not real big 5'11" and about 190 Green is 6' 4" not 6' 2" NU did take a Juco receiver and a real tough guy Nebraska kid on the O-line who went up to ND to play a year. Biggest difference : Callahan 0-17 if trailing at halftime NU won 2 after trailing at half and won 2 when tied Lots of halftime adjustments 4th quarter NU outscored opponents 3-1 According to Pelini in tha paper on Sunday it was " Because we had the 2nd best time of possession in the country. It allowed our defense to have juice in the tank late in games" Guy may know a little about defense, DC on National Championship teams, but what does he know Defnitely the inverse of the previous year. Conditioning may have been a factor as well. The previous admin did things like: Require the o-linemen to run a 2 MILE in less than X amount of time. They were not allowed to pick up their pads until they did this. New admin doesnt really do much of anything past 6 seconds or so is what Ive heard. Definitely no more cross country runs.
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Post by gdoggwr on Mar 23, 2009 8:30:38 GMT -6
I did not realize that Sayers was from Omaha. That is pretty amazing. Of course I am comparing it to Idaho as a rural type state, and we just don't have anything close to that type of athlete coming out of here. In basketball it is even worse. Sayers was born in Wichita. I think his family moved to Omaha when he was in Junior high. Nebraska had a perfect storm that peaked in the mid 90's. They were way ahead of the curve strength and conditioning wise. Their S&C coach pretty much wrote the book on functional training. They had a Great head coach (and great man) who was there forever and built a winning culture. AMAZING support from their home state. (is the stadium still the 3rd largest city in the state when sold out?) Which means they cornered the market on in-state talent. Every kid in Nebraska grew up (and probably still does) dreaming of playing for the Huskers. (think about it: great S&C + big lanky farmboy = monster lineman in 2-3 years) They also had an in-conference rival that was usually up (Oklahoma) and a bunch of also-ran's to hammer 70-3 that made up the rest of the conference most years. (I'm sure the some kstate'r will get on here and point out how competitive they were with Neb. in the mid 90's... and won't point out that the lost at home to the walkon QB in 94) Sorry for the ksu jab, I'm a KU guy from birth... but you have to respect the program that NU had.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 23, 2009 8:42:21 GMT -6
Well CU won a National Title in those years and KU and Mizzou had plenty of competitive teams along with NU playing non conference games vs Washington, FSU, PSU, Auburn, Iowa, A&M, West Virginia, UCLA, ASU, Michigan State Cal and whoever else they could get a home and home with not to mention playing in 3 Kickoff Classics ( voluntary extra game) ISU was up and down went bowling at a reasonable rate and Okie State often had great NFL talent every year and were top 20 types etc.
With only 1.7 million people you only have room for 1 DI school LOL.
Sayers moved to the Nebraska Kansas border when he was 6 and to Omaha when he was 8 years old. played Youth Football in Omaha and HS ball here, his brother Roger played at Nebraska Omaha.
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Post by gdoggwr on Mar 23, 2009 9:11:55 GMT -6
I couldn't remember when Sayers moved. And I know, not everyone got destroyed every year by NU, but... just as an example, in 93 KU lost 21-20 to Neb in Lawrence, went for 2 and didn't make get it, the next year we go to Neb. 45-17. Teams could be competitive, but it always seamed like the next year it got payed back. Or in 95 when KU, KSU, CU all finished 10-2 and ranked top ten. each beat the other and all three got crushed by NU (I know, that bunch was so special it started this thread). I guess with my last post I was trying to point to the consistency that Neb. had. OU was solid in the 80's, CU in the 90's, the other teams had good years here and there or even solid programs for awhile and KSU was building. But NU was ALWAYS good.
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Post by davecisar on Mar 23, 2009 9:25:31 GMT -6
Sayers is ours, end of story LOL.
Ive always been a Glenn Mason and Fat Man fan.
Did a ton with little, out-coached Callahan every year they played, his 2 stars against NUs supposed 4s and 5s. Was so obvious who the best prepared and better coached team was. I like watching his teams compete.
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Mar 23, 2009 10:20:05 GMT -6
Dave, looking at this year's schedule, there's some gimmes but some that aren't as easy as they used to be. Florida Atlantic Arkansas State Virginia Tech Louisiana-Lafayette Missouri Texas Tech Iowa State Baylor Oklahoma Kansas Kansas State Colorado
You have some resurgent programs there, although a "normal" or old days Neb. team would look at a 10-1 season without breaking a sweat. Also, Florida Atlantic isn't a team to ignore either, they went to a bowl game and Howard is not someone to take lightly. I don't expect FAU to win of course, but they might make it a game early.
Dave, the world has changed. No one can sleep walk through Texas Tech, Kansas or Kansas St. anymore. Baylor isn't a doormat and neither is Missouri anymore. Then there is America's new pop-icon Texas Tech.
What these teams have learned to do is throw the ball. But there is much more to it than that, they have learned to go to the hotspots of athletic talent and get these kids in school. Not just talk to them, but get them in school.
It's like WakeForest, no offense meant here at all to you Demon Deacons, but they used to have a team full of 5.0 flat receivers. They got some speed on the team, and now look at them.
You've got to have speed now. That was the big thing that Coach Bowden and Coach Osborne talked about back in the day. That was the revolution back then.
Then, and just as importantly, you've got to have the right coach. Huge mistake firing Frank Solich. He went to 5 straight bowls.
By the way, since I'm not in the loop like you are Dave, exactly why did Frank Solich get fired? I wasn't paying attention to Neb.'s program then.
This guy looks like a coach that is a winner, just like Urban Meyer was a winner before he came to Florida. Solich has done great things at Ohio, a much bigger program needs to snatch him up.
OJW
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Post by davecisar on Mar 23, 2009 11:04:36 GMT -6
OJW, Agreed, Art Briles can flat out coach, KSU is down now though but Hawkins, Mangino, Leach, Stoops,Brown, Gundy and Pinkel are very good. Then add Virginia Tech at Blacksburg etc and the Big 12 Championship Game and there are probably 4 losses there. But the buy in from the players, the effort, the preparation is night and day compared to 2007. Huge article in the paper yesterday on Suh the big DT who was projected 1-2 round kid and came back. Gave 100% of the credit to the coaches, the d-line was one of worst in the country the previous year. According to this article. direct interview with Suh, they had to start from scratch, the kids didnt know anything they expected them to know, base technique, footwork etc etc Coaching staff talked all year about teaching, teaching, teaching some more. They got better, we expect to see more of the same next year. As long as they play hard and look well prepared, we are Ok with the end result. Most feel the same way. First of all, Im not "inside" the program. I live just outside Lincoln and family has had season tickets since about 1965 etc, we go to the Bowl games. Have friends that played etc. My info is based soley on the pile of news that comes out of here on these guys every day, nothing more. IMHO Solich was fired because the new AD wanted to put his stamp on the program, an NFL stamp. His first choice was Dave Wanstead. The now former AD felt in order to get the best kids in the nation we had to have an NFL guy here running a "minor" NFL program for future NFLers using Nebraska as a short term stop on that path. Yes compete head to head with the USCs of the world running the same kind of stuff they run with comparable kids Ok, been to Lincoln NE in November? It isnt LA. Mind you Osborne won with recruting classes almost always ranked in the mid 20s and RARELY got the recruit everyone was chasing. Solich is not a media savy guy, he isnt very good in front of a camera, Callahan was so smooth in front of it, made for it really. The former AD obviously didnt feel the Deveany/Osborne/Solich model of finding good fit kids and developing the heck out of them including redshirting almost all freshmen or going hard after local kids or walk-ons was NOT going to work in spite of winning a National Title with that same formula in 1997, just 5 seasons before Solich was fired. With a Nebraska QB, Nebraska bred leading reciever and runnning back not to mention the o-line and defense etc
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Post by outlawjoseywales on Mar 23, 2009 13:33:16 GMT -6
Thanks Dave, It's been fun reading your stuff. I need to get to the Youth forums more often, or better yet, you need to post on the non youth league sections.
Hopefully Neb. has things going in the right direction, on the "down-hill drag" as folks say.
OJW
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Post by toramsfan on Apr 1, 2009 10:03:55 GMT -6
Frazier was unreal & I've always wondered how well he would've done up here in the CFL if his health hadn't been an issue. The whole team was just awesome.
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