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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 5, 2009 16:46:29 GMT -6
I have a kid who is expected to have a huge year. Lots of other kids are telling this kid how great he is etc. He is not coming to off season training and goes to the fitness center and works biceps 3 times a week I am sure. hes is a top athlete in our small school. He obviously knows it. My feeling lately is that he is TAKING A CRAP ON MY PROGRAM by choosing to skip workouts. I just feel that by a kids senior year he should have bought in and not only that, but he should be answering my expectations and leading other kids. Doesnt it speak volumes when a kid has NO REASON to miss workouts and just chooses not to come? Do I owe this kid anything? what is he doing to secure my job here? What is he doing to help us win? What is he doing for his teammates? Am I being sensitive to think of it in these terms? I wonder if this kid will piss away a 2000 yard rushing season by ticking me off.
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marv
Freshmen Member
Posts: 68
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Post by marv on Mar 5, 2009 16:58:50 GMT -6
My college coach had a great saying:
Freshmen are expected to cause some problems.
Sophomores are expected to cause fewer problems.
Juniors are expected to cause no problems.
Seniors are expected to SOLVE problems.
Nuff said. Kid is acting like a hired gun. A mercenary. He's certainly not going to lead your team.
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Post by coach4life on Mar 5, 2009 17:01:45 GMT -6
I met a very successful high school womens basketball coach on a plane flight a few years ago. My guys had just lost a tough game in which my behavior completely fried my throat, I could barely talk (yelling at refs, kids, musta sounded like a real jerk but fortunately I learned from that) but we had a terrific conversation. We got on the subject of coaching in general and I asked her "What is the most frustrating thing you've had to deal with in your career?" She answered dealing with the gifted athlete who will not work to get better, the kind that just skates by on talent while you know if they would apply themselves the world could be their oyster.
What you are thinking is what any of us would think in that scenario. My only suggestion would be to find a way to challenge him - "Do you have any idea of how good you could be?" "Do you understand the influence you have on those around you? Are you willing to think beyond yourself and be willing to serve them by being a positive example?". You know the kid, I'm sure you can come up with better challenging statements. If he responds, it's a win for him and the team. If he doesn't you and the team are still right where you were. If he reacts poorly and checks out, you did your best for everyone involved.
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Post by ramsfootball on Mar 5, 2009 17:30:30 GMT -6
I can remember when I was that kid, the gifted player that just played off talent, I can recall my 5th grade season, coming off two beast 3rd and 4th grades season racking up close to 30 TD's in two season. In the 5th grade I as getting ready to get a real taste of football. I was with the same coaching staff from my previous two seasons so I felt very comfortable that I was the man.
Well first two week into the season we are not doing so well and a asst. coach pulls me aside in practice to talk about my production, To make a long story short I took his critisim the wrong way. Man I was hot, felt like he blamed me for all the wrongs on the team, how dare he blame his best player! I felt like he should had told the other players to improve their game not mine. I went home that night and told my parents i wanted to quit, They just looked at me as a parent do when they know your doing something wrong. But they let me make the decsion. We'll next season was so so, and then 7th grade, finally playing with the big boys, My draft status went from being a 1st rd pick to 3rd or 4th, My old Coach had told all the other coaches my attitude was bad etc, coaches didn't want me except one. So the first day of practice I was told of my draft issue by my new coach and he had faith in me that what was said about me wasn't true but I needed to get off my high horse. I had something to prove.
I quess some kids have to learn the hard way, This story does have a happy ending. Come playoff time we get my old coach first rd (team I quit) So you know I was ready, We spanked them 14-0 as I ran for one TD and passed for another TD. This help me get my attitude right for 8th grade, lead my team to ship with 22 TD on the season and caught the eyes of the High School coaches and they welcomed me into the program where I made Varsity my 9th grade year as a back up QB. Starter next 3 years.
So sometime you can't keep kids from making bad judgements they have to go down their own path, just be there to help them get back the right path.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2009 19:37:11 GMT -6
Only his performance will tell. I've seen outside programkids come in and kill. But leave it on him, if he comes in and sucks, it's his own doing. If he's only going half a$$ he may not want to be there anyway, it's not your job to rescue his stats if he doesn't. But I wouldn't base it on workouts. See how he does in camp
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burn
Sophomore Member
Posts: 181
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Post by burn on Mar 5, 2009 23:19:36 GMT -6
An old saying I use often and reinforce often is "We would rather lose with winners than win with losers." Most of the kids get it and the others fade away.
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Post by jpdaley25 on Mar 6, 2009 9:23:08 GMT -6
burn, good saying!
Here's another one I got from a Ga. Tech recruiting flyer - "The most endangered species on the planet - dedicated leaders."
I think there's something in the water here that causes our kids to turdify when the become seniors. Haven't had senior leadership in 2 years.
I used to base privledges, like being the game captain for the toss or being first in line, on seniority. I don't do it that way any more. I base everything on attendance. My most dedicated are soph.s and jr.s, and they get the rewards because they earn them.
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Post by dport on Mar 6, 2009 9:54:27 GMT -6
How many of you have an athletic period during school? We have one here and there is no question that our kids are going to lift with us. We have a few go to a local gym after our workout, but that is something we can't control. I am just wondering how off season is in other parts of the country.
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Post by coachorr on Mar 6, 2009 9:57:44 GMT -6
Ramsfootball, great story thanks. DCOhio, great advice thanks.
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Post by bccarnes on Mar 6, 2009 10:27:03 GMT -6
At our school we have "Advanced PE" which is really lifting class. 80% of our guys take the class and most of the rest lift in the after school program. We do not have an "athletic period" where we can just watch film and talk football (anyone can sign up for the Advanced PE class, even if it is mainly football guys)
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Post by pantherpride91 on Mar 6, 2009 11:58:55 GMT -6
Would you rather spend 3/4 of your energy chasing this kid down and worrying about why he is not at weights and all the other bs that goes with a kid that thinks he has it all figured out or spend 100% of your energy working kids that are there and discovering that you can make players out of 3 or 4 kids that before you overlooked?
As DC said, if you set your sail right the kids that are there will work that much harder and be that much more committed to the program. Pretty soon the other kid will get the picture that life has gone without him and the only way back in is through HARD WORK WITH THE TEAM!
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 6, 2009 13:51:43 GMT -6
BY FAR THE BIGGEST MISTAKE I MADE AS A NEW HEAD COACH - worrying too much about who was NOT there.
I know this and am working on it. I am being much more blunt (thanks DCOhio) "someone will rush for 1500 yards, it doesnt have to be you"
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Post by Wingtman on Mar 6, 2009 15:08:33 GMT -6
For lack of a better term, "use the kid". Get what "YOU" need out of him on the field. Then when it comes time to nominate for capatins, all-conference whatever, his name is no where to be heard.
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Post by dubber on Mar 6, 2009 15:20:40 GMT -6
For lack of a better term, "use the kid". Get what "YOU" need out of him on the field. Then when it comes time to nominate for capatins, all-conference whatever, his name is no where to be heard. This doesn't solve any problems. It only makes the coach feel better later on......it ain't about that.
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slimbo7722
Sophomore Member
Some days yoour the dog...some days you are the hydrant.
Posts: 139
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Post by slimbo7722 on Mar 6, 2009 19:49:36 GMT -6
If he is not participating in your off season, (in my opinion), he is pissing off that 2000 yard season. What is tthat showing the others.... that he can skip off season and still be the man? Not fair to the ones that are working their butts off.
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mhs99
Junior Member
Posts: 250
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Post by mhs99 on Mar 6, 2009 20:11:25 GMT -6
Cut Nuts here. Head football coach for past 5 years, great kids, few problems, BUT, I Coach hoop too- coming into this year, lost all-time leading scorer (real divisive kid, pompus idiot), second leading scorer (thrown off due to attitude, so he transfers, and 6'6 kid who could play- no grades, not a bad kid, lots of baggae) Last year, we were 13-9 and lost in the second round of tournment with a lot of talent, little continunity or heart- I hated the season, major headackes and took it out on everyone around me. This season little talent; 5'9 linebacker with no hoop skill was a starting power forward, no bigs and only two returning starters. We go 15-9, make it to the state quarter finals, while going 5-1 in games decided by 3 points or less. Great kids with big heart, who listen and play their tails off. In my seven years as a varsity hoop coach (six tournment apperances), I have never been prouder or had more of a good time. Nearly never raised my vioce had a great time with the kids and always looked forward to coming to practice and teaching and being aroung great human beings. Leading scorer (17 ppg, all league/area) sat behind our all time leading scorer, Mr. Attitude, and blossemed when he left. Morale of story- great kids and great attitude = great team, less problems and more gratification. Attitude, selfishness, and big talent is always a mirage, you nevre want to {censored} yourself out to a kid with talent that will not work- they kill you, the rest of your kids, and your program in the end.
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Post by emptybackfield on Mar 6, 2009 20:37:46 GMT -6
Does he have any desire to play at the next level? If so, how about challenging him and making him realize that he has to start preparing his body to play at the next level. Tell him something to the effect of, "you're talented enough to be a good player at this level without working your hardest. But, you need to not only focus on preparing your body to play the next year, but down the road as well."
We have a very, very talented WR at our school who will be playing on TV in a couple years and that's part of what we try to preach to him. He's not a lazy kid or anything, but everything has just come easy to him his whole life because he's so talented.
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Post by 19delta on Mar 6, 2009 22:20:27 GMT -6
I'm not saying you have to be there everyday, but not at all is unacceptable. dc - You are on record in many posts as saying that you won't play kids "unless they come to weights". This, at least, on the surface, seems to be a softening of your stance. Just wondering, but what is your standard? At what point do you make the decision that a kid won't start for you? How many days in the weightroom does he have to miss? And, if you made a deal with this kid (assuming the deal was made because the kid was a top player), would you make the deal with lesser players?
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mscott
Probationary Member
Posts: 9
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Post by mscott on Mar 7, 2009 23:43:54 GMT -6
I agree with Emptybackfield. As much as you want everyone to be self motivated and humble thats not the real world. Great coaches find the best way to motivate individuals.
I was the warm up speaker for Joe Torre several years ago and asked him how he motivated a team full of prima donnas getting paid millions. He said he had to find what made each guy tick. One thing he found effective for the well paid loafer was to ask them if their mom would be proud of the way they did this or that.
Point is try to find a way to motivate him first, he is just a kid. If it's too disruptive then bye. bye.
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Post by towtheline on Mar 8, 2009 10:34:21 GMT -6
Tell him who is the boss. If he still skips another day for any reason then cut him. You will be there everyday unless you're dead or quit. If they can't make that commitment then they are done. If my view comes off as too hard then I guess that's how it is. I played for three state championships with average talent using this policy so I am a huge believer in grueling offseasons.
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Post by phantom on Mar 8, 2009 10:37:27 GMT -6
I'm not saying you have to be there everyday, but not at all is unacceptable. dc - You are on record in many posts as saying that you won't play kids "unless they come to weights". This, at least, on the surface, seems to be a softening of your stance. Just wondering, but what is your standard? At what point do you make the decision that a kid won't start for you? How many days in the weightroom does he have to miss? And, if you made a deal with this kid (assuming the deal was made because the kid was a top player), would you make the deal with lesser players? Keep in mind that DC is not the HC (which is why he's not hcohio) and can only go so far in making team policy.
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Post by thakatalyst on Mar 8, 2009 13:29:29 GMT -6
Our offseason and weightlifting programs have done a complete 180 in the time I've been at the school I'm at. When I first got here, there were 2 weight periods, but they were a complete joke! The football program went out and raised enough money to create one of the best weight rooms in the area. It's something our kids take an awful lot of pride in.
What we did that first year was create a zero hour program. There were 60 kids in that class. 6 AM. They earned no credit. But...those daily 6 AM workouts helped to create camaraderie, pride, responsibility, and competition. We also got to see who was committed to the program. In the weight room every morning was the HC, OL coach, and myself (now the DC)
We've made huge strides since then. Now, weightlifting and sports development are offered every period of the day. The weightroom is also open before school and after on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Our strongest kids were 800 pound lifters (squat, clean, bench), and there were only three of them. Last season, every starter on defense except maybe 2, were 800 pound lifters. We've also got 4 or 5 kids who will break a thousand by the start of next season.
What we've done is created an expectation. A culture of hard work. If you're going to be a part of our program, you need to be an active member of the weight program. There are more options now than the one 6 AM weight class that got you no credits towards graduation.
There are no excuses for not being in the weight room during the day, and what's great is the kids have done a phenomenal job of policing themselves about this. The kids put competitive pressure on each other, and if there isn't any, it makes your job that much more difficult. As a coach, you can only do so much. All the kids have to buy-in, and by doing so, they will put that competitive pressure on each other.
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Post by jml on Mar 8, 2009 13:51:38 GMT -6
Coach,
Sit down talk to him and lay out your expections... if he still does what he is doing then it is his fault....
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Post by jetswp on Mar 8, 2009 14:27:25 GMT -6
All good suggestions so far. I am fortunate to be part of a program where off-season participation is simply the expectation, and players will be there. Attendance is posted for all to see, and players will essentially keep each other in line for absences, excused or otherwise.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 8, 2009 14:45:26 GMT -6
I post attendance, I post points earned overall, points earned this off season, I mail home the results. What I learned today (though I cant post that info here) is disturbing but motivates me to "handle my business" and the kids who are not doing what I have laid out are going to be left out. The boys in question have taken liberties to dump on my program. Its not open for discussion at this point. I learned an aweful lot today after talking to another coach who said he "heard things". I now understand completey why there are two or three boys who have not met my expectations. It comes down to CANT OR WONT and in all cases, its WONT. see ya, wouldnt want to be ya.
Realizing that I was repeating a pattern of concerning myself, wasting energy on kids that arent there/here has made me a better coach. I am done worrying about those that arent with the program. They are in or they are out. That simple.
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