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Post by cnunley on Mar 5, 2009 12:35:36 GMT -6
Had a kids dad come in and talk to the HC about why his 10th grade son didnt get a lot of varsity playing time near the end of the season (He is OL/DL if that matters). Once the season was over and Off Season Strength and Conditioning started he was nowhere to be seen; his dad makes him lift with him at home now. (I guess he wants to say next year "now i know my son worked hard because he was with me") Anyways, Track season finally started a few days ago and this kid is a thrower. I had them do some maxes (Squat, Power Clean, Bench) to see where everyone was. He was pretty far behind. Power clean was HORRIBLE. Is this one of those cases where materials should be sent to daddy showing his sons progress compared to everyone else or just let him suffer on the field? or sideline?
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moon
Junior Member
Posts: 324
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Post by moon on Mar 5, 2009 12:47:55 GMT -6
Don't let him suffer and send the dad his progress compared to everyone else.
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Post by casec11 on Mar 5, 2009 13:15:16 GMT -6
Send the Progress compared to everone else to the dad and the son then explain why he needs to be there with his teammates lifting, using the progress report as proof, and state that the team lifting together is a team function meant not only to improve fittness but also promote team unity and comradery.
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Post by fatkicker on Mar 5, 2009 13:38:30 GMT -6
doesn't that go back to the...
"i'm in charge of a football team.....if you want to play football, you lift with me.....if your dad starts his own team then you can lift with him" statement.....
if you let it slide then everybody will want to lift with their dad, cousin, uncle, etc.......
just a thought...
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MaineManiac
Junior Member
What you see depends on what you're looking for.
Posts: 311
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Post by MaineManiac on Mar 5, 2009 17:40:05 GMT -6
We have that exact attitude. We have a baseline max chart on the wall where kids color in squares for the total pounds of their max. Every time they max out after they record it in red (shows progress). They can only add a red color if it was witnessed by a coach and in our weight room. It seems to work.
Personally, I think 99% of the "I lift with Dad" has to do more with sitting on the couch complaining about something than it does with any workout whatsoever.
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Post by jpdaley25 on Mar 5, 2009 18:18:44 GMT -6
How much speed and agility work is Daddy doing? How much conditioning? There's another argumentative line you can take.
How's he ever going to earn and keep the respect of his teammates if he's not doing the same things they are? In their eyes, he's "getting out of something" that they have to do. There's another argument for Super Dad.
How is he going to push himself if he isn't competeing with his peers? Doesn't he want to beat the guy that he's competing with for a position? How's he going to win if he's never around to compete for it? Tell me that Dad.
How can he be a member of a team, yet do everything seperate? The other boys are going to think that he thinks he's better than they are.
Our official line is that "If you don't work out with the team, it doesn't count, and you go to the bottom of the depth chart. "
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2009 19:32:10 GMT -6
I'd say give him a shot...and when he get's his a$$ kicked (make sure it's on film) them take it to Daddy, and ask how much time he thinks he deserves. Then all your records on his performance in the weightroom is validated.
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Post by touchdowng on Mar 5, 2009 19:32:13 GMT -6
This was four years ago but may have been one of better dad/personal trainer stories ever.
We had a Dad who happened to be a personal trainer at a local health club (the kind with all of the shiney equipment).
He told some of the kids that his program could do more for them than what we were offering at our off-season sessions. One of our freshmen parents was a fan of his so he asks me if it would be okay if his son did his workouts with Mr. Personal Trainer. I could tell that he was determined to find his very average boy an edge over the other kids in our program. We had 45 kids in the weight room and he figures if his one son is getting personal attention, he'll be that much better.
The perfect guinea pig.
I told him sure but this was only if he was willing to take part in all of our testing. Bench, Squats, Dead, Vertical Jump and I tests.
We do all of these every 8 weeks.
We did our baseline testing in Dec and he was an average 9th grader pretty much in the middle 1/3. By the time we got to the 16th week and our 3rd testing period, all of our kids were telling their teammate that he was wasting his daddy's money.
Out of stubborness the dad kept his son at the gym and to this day he never played another down for us. Sad but a good reminder to our other players that we know what we're doing and we're FREE!
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Post by schultbear74 on Mar 5, 2009 19:43:31 GMT -6
A friend of mine was up for a job at a school that had one of the best players in the US. When told that this player had his own trainer and would not work out with the team, this guy said that he would then not play. He didn't get the job. The kid is going to a D-1 college. The program did not get better. The kid and his "pimp" will get rich.
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Post by dport on Mar 5, 2009 20:08:37 GMT -6
I worked out with my dad from the time I was a 7th grader until I went to college on a scholarship. Probably didn't lift with the team 5 times in 6 years. But I was there everyday spotting and giving encouragement. I wasn't my coaches favorite player, but that was because our off season program was a joke and he knew I got my scholarship because of what me and my dad did at the weight room 3 nights a week every week for 6 years. All that time made me a better weight room coach now though.
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Post by touchdowng on Mar 5, 2009 20:14:42 GMT -6
dport
Your story is a rare one. Most dad's don't have the knowledge that your dad possessed.
Your story is the exception
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Post by dport on Mar 6, 2009 6:35:09 GMT -6
At the beginning, neither dad or me knew a whole lot about it, but when he saw that I would stick with it, we started buying books and looking on the internet. Around about the 9th grade is when I really started shooting up. It is a funny thing though because I have thought about it, and I don't know if I would like one of my players doing every thing by himself. But on the other hand, we do a lot more during our off season than when I was in high school.
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Post by coachorr on Mar 6, 2009 7:10:12 GMT -6
I just went through a similar experience as a basketball coach. I had a dad coaching some kids and he was teaching what I would call NBA skills, basically; "you ain't playing unless you are dribbling". Well, if you are an average 9th grade player it doesn't do much good to penetrate against a good help defensive team. So the dad continued to tell kids that they didn't need to set screens and run the offense they needed to penetrate and shoot. Needless to say, we lost 9 games by less than 3 points. The kids would not buy into what the coach was telling them and I was at a disadvantage, because we are the only Junior High that is split, so we were a very thin team with not much of bench. If the kids would have sold out to what I was telling them and teaching them they would have won half of the games that were close.
Unfortunately, for those kids, they will combine next year at the JV level and I believe they might find that the bench will be the place for them if they do not get on board with correct fundamentals and doing it the coach's way.
Things that kids did not understand or really believe in were the following:
Boxing out
Closing out and contesting shots
Playing tough on the backside and getting to the helpline
Having vision on ball and man
Defensive position "ball you man"
Stopping penetration from the helpside not just the on ball defender
Setting screens
Scoring through the offense rather than on your own
Taking a charge
Getting back in transition and taking away the backside pass
Spacing through the offense
Don't leave your feet on defense or to pass on offense
Several times these kids were sat down and only then would they change and do what was asked of them. I think they struggled because they were confused. Essentially, because they were serving two masters. On one hand they had a coach in the stands telling them they did not have to listen to any of the above stated fundamentals and so when they started freelancing and doing their own things they were sat down. Why not just do it the coach's way first? Mondays were the hardest days for me as a coach, because on Saturdays they would go down to the gym and practice their bad habits and on Monday they would have to be retrained again.
That being said, I think kids need to do what the coach asks of them first, then if they want to lift or play ball or do whatever on their own.
Kids need to be part of the team first, otherwise, they will be confused and less successful in the realm of the team environment.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 6, 2009 7:31:03 GMT -6
Had a kids dad come in and talk to the HC about why his 10th grade son didnt get a lot of varsity playing time near the end of the season (He is OL/DL if that matters). Once the season was over and Off Season Strength and Conditioning started he was nowhere to be seen; his dad makes him lift with him at home now. (I guess he wants to say next year "now i know my son worked hard because he was with me") Anyways, Track season finally started a few days ago and this kid is a thrower. I had them do some maxes (Squat, Power Clean, Bench) to see where everyone was. He was pretty far behind. Power clean was HORRIBLE. Is this one of those cases where materials should be sent to daddy showing his sons progress compared to everyone else or just let him suffer on the field? or sideline? Definitely let the Dad know. I would call him and schedule a conference. No reason to punish a sophomore because his dad is ignorant. Sit down and then humiliate (in a nice way) the dad. Grill him on things such as: What lifts are you using, what rest intervals, what set/rep scheme, what type of overload progression. What type of conditioning are you doing? What plyo's/ change of direction drills are you doing? What sort of mental toughness challenges are you putting your kid through? What are you doing to ensure that he learns to work WITH HIS TEAM to accomplish something? (Trick question, since he isn't with the team  ) How are you overcoming the fact that he has no peer pressure driving him because you are keeping him from the team? What do you think your kid is going to do to make up for the lost bonding with his teammates? Then, show him the data. Show him where how far his kid has fallen behind, and remind him that the kid only has ONE AND A 1/2 offseasons left in his H.S. career. |
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Post by jml on Mar 8, 2009 14:14:41 GMT -6
Anyone ever had a kid who's dad coaches at another school and he wants to work out at his dad's school? How did you handle this?
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Post by phantom on Mar 8, 2009 15:14:28 GMT -6
Anyone ever had a kid who's dad coaches at another school and he wants to work out at his dad's school? How did you handle this? Just say no. |
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Post by jgordon1 on Mar 8, 2009 16:39:24 GMT -6
Anyone ever had a kid who's dad coaches at another school and he wants to work out at his dad's school? How did you handle this? If his dad is a "football guy" and wants what is best for his son, he will know how important it is to have the "WHOLE team" train together |
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cwood
Junior Member
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Post by cwood on Mar 8, 2009 21:06:55 GMT -6
Your either apart of the team or your not. There is no whenever you want to show up. Who is this kid going to listen to in the 4th quarter his dad or his coach. Currently he is going to do what his dad is coaching him to do when they are sitting around the house. I wouldn't trust this kid until he buys into the team.
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Post by scotdaking on Mar 19, 2009 12:35:34 GMT -6
Palamalu still works out at USC. Personally, I don't care where the kid is working as long as he's working. Test him to be sure. If he's not making the grade then changes need to occur. Venue is not an issue; just a distraction. After all, you don't hear the kids asking "Where did you get your big biceps?"
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Post by CoachDaniel on Mar 19, 2009 18:46:00 GMT -6
NFL players have nothing to do with what your high school kids do, in my opinion. NFL receivers don't wear knee pads, that's not going to fly with us either.
If you run a good program, and some personal trainer sells a kid that he can do it better - that guy is seeing dollar signs, not the good of the kid. That should concern you. If the dad wants to train him, that dad doesn't believe in your program, and he's telling his kid that. That should concern you. And if he's just working out on his own, I'm willing to bet a LOT that he's not working as hard as you would push him. Again, that's a concern. We can't kick you off the team because you didn't come to the weight room, and I'm not going to screw you and me out of a good football career because your dad is a trouser snake. But it is to everyone's benefit except the dad and the personal trainer, if you are in our weight room. So you better believe I'm going to do all within my power to keep you in our weight room.
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Post by shortpunter on Mar 20, 2009 7:07:50 GMT -6
unfortunately this "know more than you" attitude seems to becoming the norm today. Keep records on everything and continue to stay after the kid to lift with you. Dads like this are a cancer. Stick to your guns and be ready to deal with the dad. unfortunately you will have to repeatedly.....
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Post by shields on Mar 20, 2009 9:00:31 GMT -6
I don't buy into that crap of "I'm lifting at home." BS!! One of the many benefits of weightlifting is the team unity aspect. If the child can get away with doing it at home, you will be opening yourself up to a bunch of trouble down the road. Sooner or later you will be left in the weightroom alone because everyone will be "lifting at home."
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Post by fbcoach74 on Mar 20, 2009 14:13:46 GMT -6
we had a player whose dad hired a personal trainer for him. So he never came to workouts with his teammates. When we tested he was one of our weaker players. So I highly doubt they work as hard, there is no one to push him. So The kid's father sent him to a private school. You might lose some but to create the team you need them there.
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bobbyb
Sophomore Member
Posts: 105
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Post by bobbyb on Mar 21, 2009 8:17:33 GMT -6
I have had some want to train their son thte amazing thing is the kids are usually horrible football players and never get back into the program. I strongly encourage participation in both track and the weight lifting team. I let parents know I dont think they will push their pride and joy as hard as we will on a dailey basis and the energy you have in a weightroom with a football team aint duplicated by dad and watching Rudy, Rember The Titans and Friday Night Lights
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hoir
Freshmen Member
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Post by hoir on Mar 21, 2009 17:30:45 GMT -6
Since it's not a mandatory lifting time there isn't anything you can do to keep him from lifting with his dad. However, now you have proof for why he isn't playing much.
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Post by dbeard42 on Mar 24, 2009 16:55:48 GMT -6
"GOOD THINGS COME TO THOSE WHO WEIGHT"
I'd be totally upfront and honest with both the kid and the dad that hey if your not here putting the time in with us you aren't a bigger asset to us we can't measure your progress and help you to get to your peak performance. Also if your lifting with your father your doing your own thing how do we know when it comes gametime and our season is on the line that your not going to do your own thing and screw all of us . Just my thoughts
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Post by scotdaking on Apr 2, 2009 7:53:43 GMT -6
I think you are full of yourselves and have lost site of the goal: Performance on Game Day. If I read you correctly, it is OK for Dad's to coach the offensive line but he can't instruct his son in his home gym. The Dad's I know that take their kid (now I am talking about Dads without an alterior motive and kids with real commitment to do their best) out of a school weight lifting program do so because of the ineptness of that school program and because they have insight or counsel on how to do it better. Why else would they do it? You can always test. Dad shouldn't object to you having the kid come in and post some numbers to guage where he is on your development chart. The kid should look for ways to improve if he posts poor numbers. It doesn't have to be a contentious relationship.
Your idea of team unity is misguided too. It's more pie in the sky philosophy. Yes, it's a team game but there's a reliance on individual performance. Kids dedicated to football know what they need to do to get themselves to perform at their peak. This is not the rocket science you'd have everyone believe. If the kid sucks on game day he needs to adjust his approach and will do so willingly. If he is great on game day the team will carry him off the field in a unified fashion.
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Post by phantom on Apr 2, 2009 8:04:52 GMT -6
I think you are full of yourselves and have lost site of the goal: Performance on Game Day. If I read you correctly, it is OK for Dad's to coach the offensive line but he can't instruct his son in his home gym. The Dad's I know that take their kid (now I am talking about Dads without an alterior motive and kids with real commitment to do their best) out of a school weight lifting program do so because of the ineptness of that school program and because they have insight or counsel on how to do it better. Why else would they do it? You can always test. Dad shouldn't object to you having the kid come in and post some numbers to guage where he is on your development chart. The kid should look for ways to improve if he posts poor numbers. It doesn't have to be a contentious relationship. Your idea of team unity is misguided too. It's more pie in the sky philosophy. Yes, it's a team game but there's a reliance on individual performance. Kids dedicated to football know what they need to do to get themselves to perform at their peak. This is not the rocket science you'd have everyone believe. If the kid sucks on game day he needs to adjust his approach and will do so willingly. If he is great on game day the team will carry him off the field in a unified fashion. What level do you coach? |
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Post by CoachDaniel on Apr 2, 2009 8:50:27 GMT -6
Kids dedicated to football know what they need to do to get themselves to perform at their peak. This is not the rocket science you'd have everyone believe. If the kid sucks on game day he needs to adjust his approach and will do so willingly. If he is great on game day the team will carry him off the field in a unified fashion. Who are your kids? My kids don't know anything about football OR weightlifting! As an experiment, remove the weightlifting program. Just have an open gym - free membership for anyone who wants to play football, or you can train with dad, mom, a personal trainer, pay through the nose to someone else, anything. Just be sure you perform on game day. Let them figure it out. See what you get. Sorry, but there is a little rocket science involved in this stuff. |
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Post by coachtut on Apr 3, 2009 8:36:29 GMT -6
Everyone appreciates honesty. They may not realize it at first but they do. Don't present the material in front of the kids where the dad might have to defend him. Also explain that the weight room is an area where team building occurs. Explain that he needs to be there and that YOU will report back to the dad if he is not serious with his lifting sessions.
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) How are you overcoming the fact that he has no peer pressure driving him because you are keeping him from the team? What do you think your kid is going to do to make up for the lost bonding with his teammates? 
