|
|
Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 5, 2009 4:31:42 GMT -6
From a coaching perspective:
If you were an nfl coach....
If you had certain nfl players on your roster, who COULD YOU/WOULD YOU play on both sides of the ball to make your team better?
Do you ever wonder why more NFL teams do not do this???
|
|
|
|
Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 5, 2009 4:33:59 GMT -6
Now that I think about it...I wonder why some of the marginal college teams do not do this? seems to me that they could level the field a bit by putting better athletes on the field on both sides. It might even help recruiting some.
|
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Mar 5, 2009 6:00:10 GMT -6
From a coaching perspective: If you were an nfl coach.... If you had certain nfl players on your roster, who COULD YOU/WOULD YOU play on both sides of the ball to make your team better? Do you ever wonder why more NFL teams do not do this??? I would say the schemes come into play and make it a bit harder to learn both sides of the ball. I would also say the pure physical nature of the NFL would also have an impact. |
|
|
|
Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 5, 2009 6:13:37 GMT -6
It might. For a team like the Detriot Lions who are short on the studs , would it make sense for them to play players both ways or just keep losing?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2009 8:07:18 GMT -6
Well, it may not be an "or" statement. What happens if they play guys both ways and still lose? Most of the NFL players have only been playing one side of the ball since at least their freshmen year of college, if not in high school as well. Even in the NFL where the players put in 8-hour days or more, it would take A LOT of coaching and catching up to do to make a two-way player effective IMHO.
|
|
|
|
Post by tye2021 on Mar 5, 2009 10:25:14 GMT -6
I think its easier to move defensive guys to offense than the other way around at those levels. You can put him in on certain packages wether than teching him the entire offensive playbook. Even then I can't see it happening much do to the length of NFL games and the physicality of the game at that level.
|
|
|
|
Post by kboyd on Mar 5, 2009 13:28:52 GMT -6
I very rarely have a kid going both ways at the HS level. Maybe it's silly, idealistic thinking but I'm not just trying to win but also trying to get as many kids out on the field as possible. There are times, say because of injury to a starter, that I look at using a kid both ways but this doesn't happen that often. Anyway, that's my $0.02 on the matter.
|
|
|
|
Post by fatkicker on Mar 5, 2009 13:34:06 GMT -6
it would be possible for the little ankle people to play both ways....
i don't think you could ask ray lewis to play 15 plays of middle linebacker and then move him to fullback.........
of course, i'd like to see him lead block.....
|
|
|
|
Post by ramsfootball on Mar 5, 2009 13:36:23 GMT -6
I'm no expert on how NFL teams go about their rosters and depth charts, but I know for the players they get paid to do a job, Just like you and I get paid to do our day jobs, so what happens when our boss asks us to take on more responsibility? We ask or demand more money right? I assume it would be the same in the Pro's, must be cheaper to pay a player to play one position rather pay him to play two. However many have special team rolls so does that count as being on the other side of the ball?
|
|
|
|
Post by dubber on Mar 5, 2009 13:41:39 GMT -6
In HS, I played OL and MLB.
I had two things to know on offense......base blocking and snap count
I had two things to know on defense......defensive signals, and tackle the guy with the ball
Deion Sanders was the last guy to make a serious try at the both way thing (save maybe Troy Brown).
I have no doubt Deion would have made a FANTASTIC WR, but he was a DB too. The complexities of scheme (knowing, on every play, where to line up, what stance to use, motions, releases, stemming, conversions, breaks, DB tendencies) coupled with his defensive responsibilities is a 16 hour a day job. Which means by Sunday, he would be useless.
He ulitmately failed being the compliment Irvin needed.
In high school, I GUARENTEE Deion Sanders NEVER left the field.
But sometimes getting the 11 best on the field is counter-productive to winning.
We have a sophomore slot who is probably good enough to start at OLB.....we have a senior who is a hair less skilled.
We will probably start the senior, because then that slot only works one way, and we can use him on special teams....he won't have exhaustion or information overload problems, and that senior at 100% is better than that sophomore at 75%.
But by the time he is a senior, he probably won't leave the field.
|
|
|
|
Post by dubber on Mar 5, 2009 13:46:50 GMT -6
TDmaker, I will say I think good coaches (like Belichick) use their guys in unique ways in SITUATIONS. You may not start em' both ways and ask them to be in on everything, but you can take this good LBer:  And use him on GL. Once I saw Keyshawn Johnson, when he was with the Jets intercept a pass because he was on the Jet's prevent defense unit. Stuff like that is creative and good and DOABLE. Asking Steve Hutchinson to play 1 technique is not. |
|
|
|
Post by airman on Mar 5, 2009 15:23:55 GMT -6
i think charles woodson played some both ways early in his career with the raiders.
|
|
|
|
Post by airman on Mar 5, 2009 15:30:58 GMT -6
In HS, I played OL and MLB. I had two things to know on offense......base blocking and snap count I had two things to know on defense......defensive signals, and tackle the guy with the ball Deion Sanders was the last guy to make a serious try at the both way thing (save maybe Troy Brown). I have no doubt Deion would have made a FANTASTIC WR, but he was a DB too. The complexities of scheme (knowing, on every play, where to line up, what stance to use, motions, releases, stemming, conversions, breaks, DB tendencies) coupled with his defensive responsibilities is a 16 hour a day job. Which means by Sunday, he would be useless. He ulitmately failed being the compliment Irvin needed. In high school, I GUARENTEE Deion Sanders NEVER left the field. But sometimes getting the 11 best on the field is counter-productive to winning. We have a sophomore slot who is probably good enough to start at OLB.....we have a senior who is a hair less skilled. We will probably start the senior, because then that slot only works one way, and we can use him on special teams....he won't have exhaustion or information overload problems, and that senior at 100% is better than that sophomore at 75%. But by the time he is a senior, he probably won't leave the field. not to get off topic but how do you guys do it who have your best 11 playing all the time? I guess I have been lucky and have always been at a platoon school except for 1 season. from my point i think coaches are carzy not to platoon especailly on the offensive and defensive lines. player A and B start the game 100%. Player A goes both ways and player B goes one way. player b is going to be much closer to 100% in the 4th quarter then player A who has been going both ways. I am a firm believer in not even allowing the O and D lines to stand on the sidelines. I want those guys sitting on the bench when they are not playing to keep the blook from pooling in their legs. This is a tip I got from a track coach.. |
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Mar 5, 2009 15:59:40 GMT -6
They always say DB's are WR who can't catch. So I would guess by the time someone reaches the NFL they are playing the position that suits them best. Also think about the physical toll the game takes on you, there are guys who have prob. been playing football for at least 20 some years when they retire from the NFL. I am sure there are others on this board besides me who can feel their playing days that never even sniffed the NFL. So I can imagine going both ways would cut your career down by alot.
|
|
hoosier
Sophomore Member
Posts: 176
|
Post by hoosier on Mar 5, 2009 18:17:02 GMT -6
devin hester has played quite a bit of WR for the Bears. more and more teams are using DTs in their offensive goal line/short yardage packages.
id like to see Antonio Cromartie at WR. they may have used him there already though
|
|
|
|
Post by dubber on Mar 5, 2009 19:19:22 GMT -6
In HS, I played OL and MLB. I had two things to know on offense......base blocking and snap count I had two things to know on defense......defensive signals, and tackle the guy with the ball Deion Sanders was the last guy to make a serious try at the both way thing (save maybe Troy Brown). I have no doubt Deion would have made a FANTASTIC WR, but he was a DB too. The complexities of scheme (knowing, on every play, where to line up, what stance to use, motions, releases, stemming, conversions, breaks, DB tendencies) coupled with his defensive responsibilities is a 16 hour a day job. Which means by Sunday, he would be useless. He ulitmately failed being the compliment Irvin needed. In high school, I GUARENTEE Deion Sanders NEVER left the field. But sometimes getting the 11 best on the field is counter-productive to winning. We have a sophomore slot who is probably good enough to start at OLB.....we have a senior who is a hair less skilled. We will probably start the senior, because then that slot only works one way, and we can use him on special teams....he won't have exhaustion or information overload problems, and that senior at 100% is better than that sophomore at 75%. But by the time he is a senior, he probably won't leave the field. not to get off topic but how do you guys do it who have your best 11 playing all the time? I guess I have been lucky and have always been at a platoon school except for 1 season. from my point i think coaches are carzy not to platoon especailly on the offensive and defensive lines. player A and B start the game 100%. Player A goes both ways and player B goes one way. player b is going to be much closer to 100% in the 4th quarter then player A who has been going both ways. I am a firm believer in not even allowing the O and D lines to stand on the sidelines. I want those guys sitting on the bench when they are not playing to keep the blook from pooling in their legs. This is a tip I got from a track coach.. We do it when there is THIS MUCH drop off from player A to player B. This year, the sophomore is just a little better than the senior. By the time this kid is a senior, I doubt there will be merit in playing a lesser, cause this kid "tired" is better than whatever else we got fresh |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2009 19:26:55 GMT -6
Money that's why.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Mar 5, 2009 20:40:20 GMT -6
The difference is that generally at the H.S and lower levels, ATHLETICISM is the driving force behind success. Your best offensive skill player would probably be your best QB (depending on throwing), and almost certainly your best WR/RB/DB. Or your best bigger sized RB would probably be your best LB, your best TE, your best pulling guard, your best DE...all of this based on the fact that this person is probably significantly stronger, faster, more explosive than most H.S. kids. He probably has better balance, better eye-hand coordination, better body control.
At the NFL level, the differences in athleticism are going to be relatively small. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the football abilities of Ray Lewis and Journeyman NFL MLB. But if you analyze the situation, this difference is not due to huge differences in speed, strength, explosiveness, athleticism. Balance maybe...a little more than the others, but the bottom line is that Ray Lewis is probably not significantly stronger, faster, or more explosive than a typical NFL FB.
Just my two cents.
|
|
|
|
Post by los on Mar 5, 2009 21:16:44 GMT -6
This kind of goes along with coachd's post.....I think, the more advanced you get in any career, the more guys tend to specialize in something.....all things being equal, its tough to compete against a guy that does the same thing(or plays the same position) every day of his life....they know all the basics, plus the subtle nuances they've learned from years of experience.....doing this one thing. So, for an experienced ,specialist, NFL football player.....until his athleticism wanes, from age or injury, it might be difficult to find another guy on the roster any better at his position?
|
|
|
|
Post by jml on Mar 8, 2009 14:21:39 GMT -6
I think it would take a coach with a lot of balls to do this...
|
|
|
|
Post by coachweav88 on Mar 9, 2009 8:33:02 GMT -6
not to get off topic but how do you guys do it who have your best 11 playing all the time? We do it because we have to. We only had 28 players from grades 9-12 last season. |
|
|
|
Post by hustleandheart on Mar 9, 2009 13:45:59 GMT -6
Now that I think about it...I wonder why some of the marginal college teams do not do this? seems to me that they could level the field a bit by putting better athletes on the field on both sides. It might even help recruiting some. Darius Butler, Connecticut, WR / KR / Corner |
|
|
|
Post by coachinghopeful on Mar 10, 2009 2:22:41 GMT -6
If it weren't for his back problems, I'd love to have Brian Urlacher go both ways as a MLB and H-back.
That's another thing. The NFL is a 16 game season, with 4 preseason games and (hopefully) at 3 postseason games as well. That's a lot of football, and it's no coincidence that most great players eventually have to retire due to injuries, then go on to suffer from a ton of problems for their entire lives related to their playing days. Look at poor Todd Collins or Earl Campbell, for example!
But man, if I only had one season and the guys willing to do it... I can only imagine what Urlacher could do as a TE/FB/H-Back, Reggie Bush at CB, LaDainian Tomlinson at FS (assuming he'd be willing to tackle), Antonio Gates and Jason Witten at DE, Tim Tebow at QB/OLB, etc.
Ever since Charles Woodson, some colleges have put their best DBs in for offensive spot duty on as a recruiting tool and a way of getting their best athletes on the field and getting the fans/media excited. Tennessee did that with Eric Berry last year, having him play a lot of S/QB/WR in the final 2 games.
|
|
|
|
Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 10, 2009 3:46:35 GMT -6
Now that I think about it...I wonder why some of the marginal college teams do not do this? seems to me that they could level the field a bit by putting better athletes on the field on both sides. It might even help recruiting some. Darius Butler, Connecticut, WR / KR / Corner Funny you should post this. I remember watching UCONN back in the 80s. You all certainly have done a remarkable job putting Husky football on the map. I was actually thinking of schools like Uconn, Temple, West Va, cincy and some other schools that I grew up watching. It seemed that theyd have a very good athlete who played one side of the ball and then just some so so guys on the other. Some of those kids would really have helped the team had they stayed on the field. |
|
|
|
Post by spreadattack on Mar 10, 2009 14:03:48 GMT -6
The difference is that generally at the H.S and lower levels, ATHLETICISM is the driving force behind success. Your best offensive skill player would probably be your best QB (depending on throwing), and almost certainly your best WR/RB/DB. Or your best bigger sized RB would probably be your best LB, your best TE, your best pulling guard, your best DE...all of this based on the fact that this person is probably significantly stronger, faster, more explosive than most H.S. kids. He probably has better balance, better eye-hand coordination, better body control. At the NFL level, the differences in athleticism are going to be relatively small. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the football abilities of Ray Lewis and Journeyman NFL MLB. But if you analyze the situation, this difference is not due to huge differences in speed, strength, explosiveness, athleticism. Balance maybe...a little more than the others, but the bottom line is that Ray Lewis is probably not significantly stronger, faster, or more explosive than a typical NFL FB. Just my two cents. I think this is right. The disparity in talent in HS between one kid and another can be quite large. In the Pros, even with some freaks, it is going to be small, and in any event the difference between the good and great players usually comes down to skill as much as it is raw athleticism. And any time you go both ways you are making a play for more athleticism at the expense of skill. College is where it is intriguing; maybe it could be done more. |
|
