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Post by 19delta on Jan 1, 2009 11:15:37 GMT -6
daily-journal.com/archives/dj/display.php?id=433278Nice article about a coach in Illinois who works at a really tough place. 80% of the kids are African-American or Hispanic and 72% of the kids come from low-income families. Only 25% of the kids at the school meet or exceed standards on the state test. It is highly motivating for me to read about guys like Coach Middlebrook who win by doing things the right way, especially when the odds are REALLY stacked against success.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 1, 2009 12:02:44 GMT -6
Why are the odds stacked against them? Do they play against schools of similar make up? I often hear that the odds are stacked against a school because they are largely black or hispanic and often they are a school 2-3 times the size of the teams they face. Just something that always irks me.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 1, 2009 12:06:45 GMT -6
Because at a school like this, the coaches have a heck of a lot more to worry about than xs and os.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 1, 2009 12:14:36 GMT -6
They also have the smallest enrollment in their conference and the other five teams in the league are in predominantly suburban areas. And prior to this season, (the current head coach is in his third year) the school had only two winning seasons since 2000.
I really didn't expect the kind of cynicism you showed...very disappointing that a guy does a great job at a place where success doesn't come easy yet another coach finds ways to tear him down. Disturbing.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 1, 2009 15:33:54 GMT -6
Because at a school like this, the coaches have a heck of a lot more to worry about than xs and os. First of all, back up! I never tore him down as you said. Re read my post, I QUESTIONED YOU. Thats not the same as tearing the guy down. Lets see , playing devils advocate , regarding worrying about more than xs and os...................so? Dont we all have alot more to worry about than xs and os? We all have character issue kids, criminals, druggies and drunks, thieves, liars and sociopaths. Drugs, single parent households, bad schools, poor parents arent all just in the inner city. They are everywhere. Most of us also have a CORE of good kids, good character kids that we can build upon. Now, being the smallest school in the conference is the disadvantage. That much is true unless they still have more speed and talent than the others? do they? I am sure the guy has done an amazing job. I honestly have not read the article. It just irks me when any time a guy coaches an inner city school and wins hes a miracle worker. In any case, I have never seen a situation where a coaching staff didnt have to deal with the distractions of real life outside of xs and os. I was just playing devils advocate and certainly didnt mean to come on so strong as to upset you personally .
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Post by coachtut on Jan 1, 2009 16:42:00 GMT -6
If you didn't read the article you shouldn't respond.
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Post by khalfie on Jan 1, 2009 17:33:52 GMT -6
Kankakee... hadn't been relevant in football since the 1990's
2000-01 | | 4 5 | 2001-02 | | 1 8 | 2002-03 | | 4 5 | 2003-04 | Q | 5 5 | 2004-05 | Q | 5 5 | 2005-06 | | 1 8 | . . . . . 20 36 6 yr .357 2006-07 | | 3 6 | Cornell Middlebrook 2007-08 | | 3 6 | Cornell Middlebrook 2008-09 | Q | 9 4 | Cornell Middlebrook
In three years he was able to do, what most coaches aspire to accomplish...
He definitely deserves our respect and admiration...
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Post by davecisar on Jan 1, 2009 19:41:51 GMT -6
Ive not coached HS ball, but I have coached in the inner-city and in the suburbs up to grade 8.
I did at a minumum 90% less "social work" in the burbs and in most years my burb kids were bigger and more focused. 8 seasons in the inner city, 8 seasons in the burbs. Pretty much the same thing every year.
Hats off to this coach and those like him.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 1, 2009 20:47:06 GMT -6
Lets see , playing devils advocate , regarding worrying about more than xs and os...................so? Dont we all have alot more to worry about than xs and os? We all have character issue kids, criminals, druggies and drunks, thieves, liars and sociopaths. Drugs, single parent households, bad schools, poor parents arent all just in the inner city. They are everywhere. Most of us also have a CORE of good kids, good character kids that we can build upon. You're joking, right? Are you really going to compare the socioeconomic issues at a school like the one in the article and a suburban school? Given the off-the-field issues that this coach and his assistants had to address, what he did IS nothing short of miraculous.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 1, 2009 20:48:35 GMT -6
Ive not coached HS ball, but I have coached in the inner-city and in the suburbs up to grade 8. I did at a minumum 90% less "social work" in the burbs and in most years my burb kids were bigger and more focused. 8 seasons in the inner city, 8 seasons in the burbs. Pretty much the same thing every year. Hats off to this coach and those like him. Bingo, Dave...you hit the nail on the head!
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 1, 2009 21:05:12 GMT -6
columbine high school had its share of distractions Id imagine. suburban enough for you? how about this school? ask.metafilter.com/73071/High-school-team-committing-suicideTheres just got to be some caution used when painting a picture of coaching at suburban schools as a cake walk. I am qualified to make the comparison. I have been both a teacher and coach in both situations. There are challenges on both ends. I respect and admire all coaches and the job this man has done is surely remarkable.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 1, 2009 21:08:28 GMT -6
columbine high school had its share of distractions Id imagine. suburban enough for you? Distractions? You are grasping for straws...don't confuse tragedy with generational poverty...two completely different concepts.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 1, 2009 21:08:50 GMT -6
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 1, 2009 21:11:30 GMT -6
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Post by 19delta on Jan 1, 2009 21:13:33 GMT -6
I read it the first time. Doesn't apply to the situation. Dealing with generational poverty and dealing with tragedy are two separate isues. Tragedies come and go. Poverty is always there.
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Post by khalfie on Jan 1, 2009 21:39:21 GMT -6
Let me see if I understand you correctly Td... It upsets you, when people speak to the conditions of the inner city as a struggle? And more so, you don't understand that struggle? ""Why are the odds stacked against them? Do they play against schools of similar make up? I often hear that the odds are stacked against a school because they are largely black or hispanic and often they are a school 2-3 times the size of the teams they face. Just something that always irks me.
It just irks me when any time a guy coaches an inner city school and wins hes a miracle worker. """
Furthermore, it is your position that all schools, surburbans included, have the same problems as these inner city schools? ""Dont we all have alot more to worry about than xs and os? We all have character issue kids, criminals, druggies and drunks, thieves, liars and sociopaths. Drugs, single parent households, bad schools, poor parents arent all just in the inner city. They are everywhere. Most of us also have a CORE of good kids, good character kids that we can build upon. ""Dav and Delta attempted to coach you up, by explaining how... ""Ive not coached HS ball, but I have coached in the inner-city and in the suburbs up to grade 8.
I did at a minumum 90% less "social work" in the burbs and in most years my burb kids were bigger and more focused. 8 seasons in the inner city, 8 seasons in the burbs. Pretty much the same thing every year.""
""You're joking, right? Are you really going to compare the socioeconomic issues at a school like the one in the article and a suburban school?
Given the off-the-field issues that this coach and his assistants had to address, what he did IS nothing short of miraculous. ""And this is where you got competitive... instead of acknowleding the better argument, acquiescing your position, manning up and admitting your perspective on suburban schools vs inner city schools may be skewed... You searched the net to remind us of Columbine and a suicide tragedy... as proof that your comparison of suburban struggle being similar to that of the inner city struggle? """columbine high school had its share of distractions Id imagine. suburban enough for you?
how about this school?
ask.metafilter.com/73071/High-school-team-committing-suicide
Theres just got to be some caution used when painting a picture of coaching at suburban schools as a cake walk.
I am qualified to make the comparison. I have been both a teacher and coach in both situations. There are challenges on both ends. I respect and admire all coaches and the job this man has done is surely remarkable. """Is that what's happening here? TD are you comparing struggles to nullify the relevancy of the inner city struggle? Simply because it upsets you to hear coaches lawded as "miracle workers" when they get it done in less then desirable circumstances? You were willing to go this far... for that point? Do I have your conversation correct, or am I misreading this somewhere?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 1, 2009 22:03:25 GMT -6
delta said I made a comparison about the socio economic struggles or something . I NEVER said anything about that. Show me where I said that.
You sound like one of those OJ defense lawyers trying to lead a witness down a path of lies.
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Post by khalfie on Jan 1, 2009 22:13:43 GMT -6
delta said I made a comparison about the socio economic struggles or something . I NEVER said anything about that. Show me where I said that. You sound like one of those OJ defense lawyers trying to lead a witness down a path of lies. I'm done td... I don't have a horse in this race... Wanted to show you your statements... right next to his statements, to make sure I was understanding your perspective... You've gotten understandably defensive... If I'd have said something as non-sensical... I would probably get defensive also... Can't make you read something you don't want to see or acknowledge... Thought that if I intervened, you may see how your thoughts have been perceived... but either way... Long live the DW!
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Post by 19delta on Jan 1, 2009 22:20:23 GMT -6
You sound like one of those OJ defense lawyers trying to lead a witness down a path of lies. Well...you are making it way too easy! ;D The coach in the article I posted works at a school that has to deal with the issues of generational poverty every year. You countered by giving examples of two suburban schools that have experienced tragedies. I (correctly) pointed out the flaw in your reasoning, which is that you can't compare the two...they are two entirely different concepts. The effort to overcome generational poverty is far more complicated and difficult to overcome than an ocassional tragedy.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 1, 2009 22:33:26 GMT -6
1)My point was that every coach will have to overcome adversity. Clearly adversity is not limited to poor inner city schools.
2)I certainly never discounted this situation and completely understand inner city poverty and the challenges that go with that. I do think that "winning" and "poverty" and "race" are not tied together.
3)I questioned you on your statement about being impressed with "WINNING WITH ODDS STACKED AGAINST SUCCESS" and merely asked you to speak to the odds that might have been stacked against the other schools involved.
4) Go back and R-E-A-D what my post said. Coaching at a school that is poor does not reduce "odds of winning games" - if so, show me some evidence of that. It certainly might mean more "social work" as CoachCisar stated.
5)You were impressed with the fact that he was WINNING with "odds stacked against success"- my point, how do you know that the odds were stacked "against him" and not against the coaches whom he faced? Did they have to play with adversity? This school has 1200 or so students right? how many students did the other schools have? The team had 27 players, how many did these other teams have? You mentioned off the field issues, did the other teams in the conference have off the field issues? As it relates to WINNING games does the "odds of winning" change because the students are black? hispanic? poor?
this was your comment: "It is highly motivating for me to read about guys like Coach Middlebrook who win by doing things the right way, especially when the odds are REALLY stacked against success. "Am I any more clear?
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Post by khalfie on Jan 1, 2009 22:47:17 GMT -6
1)My point was that every coach will have to overcome adversity. Clearly adversity is not limited to poor inner city schools. 2)I certainly never discounted this situation and completely understand inner city poverty and the challenges that go with that. I do think that "winning" and "poverty" and "race" are not tied together. 3)I questioned you on your statement about being impressed with "WINNING WITH ODDS STACKED AGAINST THE COACH" and merely asked you to speak to the odds that might have been stacked against the other schools involved. 4) Go back and R-E-A-D what my post said. Coaching at a school that is poor does not reduce "odds of winning games" - if so, show me some evidence of that. It certainly might mean more "social work" as CoachCisar stated. 5)You were impressed with the fact that he was WINNING with "odds stacked against him"- my point, how do you know that the odds were stacked "against him" and not against the coaches whom he faced? Did they have to play with adversity? This school has 1200 or so students right? how many students did the other schools have? The team had 27 players, how many did these other teams have? As it relates to WINNING games does the "odds of winning" change because the students are black? hispanic? poor? Am I any more clear? Utterly amazing... You question Delta... and he's supposed to explain all of that to you? Wasn't enough that the school, with a history of struggle, having 1200 students, competiting in 5a, third largest division in Illinois... was 2 pts shy of beating the eventual state champion with their 27 kids, while the average 5a program has 50 to 60 and the better programs getting near 100? That wasn't enough... before you could agree with the article that spoke to having to personally transport his kids, feed them, discuss issues of protection... you want someone to definitively determine for you... 1. The type of adversity his competition faced... 2. Provide proof that poverty and adversity makes winning harder? 3. Explain why the other schools don't get credit for overcoming adversity? Explain their situations? All of this has to be done before you will agree that this coach has earned the right to be recognized? And more so, you want Delta to do this research... or shut up? Wow! You win coach... you got us!
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Post by 19delta on Jan 1, 2009 22:54:19 GMT -6
No. You are just digging a deeper hole. What is the nearest inner city area to you? On average, what are the schools in those areas like? Not the magnet schools...not the cream of the crop...the average high schools in inner city areas that are near you. Now, compare those programs to the average suburban school programs near you. Use whatever criteria you want...test scores, percentage of kids receiving free and reduced lunches, graduation rates, facilities, single-parent families, neighborhood violent crime rates, drug arrests, teenage pregnancies, unemplyment rates...whatever YOU think the criteria should be. I would GUARANTEE that at the inner city schools, you are going to find FAR MORE issues that negatively affect student success than at suburban schools. At suburban schools, kids simply don't have the same baggage that kids who attend inner city schools have. Do suburban kids have baggage? Of course...however, at most suburban schools, there are all sorts of mechanisms to help those kids with baggage overcome their difficulties. That is more often NOT the case in inner city schools. The other thing to keep in mind is that kids who attend suburban schools typically come from families that value education...families that understand what the "purpose" of school is. At many inner city schools, that is not the case. Many students who attend inner city schools come from families where no one graduated high school and many of the adults don't have steady employment. Given that scenario, many of the kids who attend these schools simply don't understand the concept of education because they have no point of reference. Which, getting back to the original post, makes what this coach did all the more miraculous. The suburban schools in his conference are set up for success while the school he works at is, more often not, destined for failure. Despite that, he and his staff managed to overcome those conditions.
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Post by groundchuck on Jan 1, 2009 22:59:24 GMT -6
I read the article. Sounds like a guy who goes "all-in" for his kids.
Sounds like the kids bought in. Goes back to the old saying "they don't care how much you know until they know how much you care."
I commend him on his success and would love to pick his brain. I coach at a rural school, but we have some low income and minority families too. I bet this guy can communicate and build a rapport with people. I hope by my third year at this school we can win nine games and be deep in the playoffs.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 1, 2009 23:03:42 GMT -6
Kalfie, again you spin words like a defense lawyer. I thought you were done with this? Obviously you are interested in joining a fight so lets go.
Let me address the statements that YOU MADE and not me.
"Utterly amazing... YES, UTTERLY AMAZING THAT YOU CANT MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS
You question Delta... and he's supposed to explain all of that to you? WHY NOT, HE JUDGED MY COMMENTS AS "CYNICISM"
Wasn't enough that the school, with a history of struggle, having 1200 students, competiting in 5a, third largest division in Illinois... was 2 pts shy of beating the eventual state champion with their 27 kids, while the average 5a program has 50 to 60 and the better programs getting near 100?
OH ITS IMPRESSIVE. WHERE DID I SAY IT WASNT ENOUGH?
That wasn't enough... before you could agree with the article that spoke to having to personally transport his kids, feed them, discuss issues of protection... you want someone to definitively determine for you...
I DO?
1. The type of adversity his competition faced...
YES, BECAUSE YOU CANT SPEAK TO "ODDS OF WINNING" WITHOUT KNOWING THAT.
2. Provide proof that poverty and adversity makes winning harder?
YES, ESPECIALLY IF EVERYONE IN THE LEAGUE IS POOR. I WOULDNT KNOW. WOULD A POOR TEAM OF SENIORS LOSE TO A RICH TEAM OF 10TH GRADERS? OR PERHAPS THE ODDS OF WINNING GO BEYOND MONEY.
3. Explain why the other schools don't get credit for overcoming adversity? Explain their situations?
I DONT RECALL SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT "CREDIT" - I AM INTERESTED IN HEARING WHAT THEY MIGHT HAVE OVERCOME THOUGH AS IT RELATES TO "ODDS OF WINNING".
All of this has to be done before you will agree that this coach has earned the right to be recognized?
NOPE, THOSE ARE YOUR WORDS. NICE TRY THOUGH. YOU SOUND JUST LIKE JOHNNIE COCHRAN. IF YOU WOULD HAVE TAKEN THE TIME TO ACTUALLY READ MY POSTS YOUD HAVE SEEN THAT I APPLAUDED THE COACH AND HIS SUCCESS. YOU OBVIOUSLY CAME IN LOOKING FOR A FIGHT THOUGH. IM UP LATE, IN THE MOOD SO LETS GO.
And more so, you want Delta to do this research... or shut up?
AGAIN, YOUR WORDS KALFI, NOT MINE. TYPICAL DEFENSE LAWYER STUFF. BUT WEAK. NEVER ONCE DID I SAY PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
Wow!
YES, WOW. NOW TELL ME AGAIN WHY YOU HAVE A DOG IN THIS FIGHT?
You win coach... you got us! "
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU. SO WHY YOU JOINED IN REMAINS A MYSTERY.
THE PROBLEM WITH YOUR POSTS IS THAT YOU TRY TO SPEAK FOR OTHER PEOPLE. NOT REALLY A NICE THING TO DO. JUST SAY YOUR PIECE, BUT DO NOT TRY TO SPEAK FOR ME.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Jan 1, 2009 23:10:48 GMT -6
There are challenges at all types of schools. I would say there are more (serious / life altering) challenges in an urban setting. That being said there are good coaches in all types of schools with all types of demographics. I was an assistant at an urban school that went 26 - 0 in two seasons. Two State Titles. One of our star rb's was shot and killed the day before Thanksgiving. Those kids dealt with a differnt set of life issues then the kids I coach now. Where I am currently, we've turned into a good team, 7 wins each of the last two seasons. But we are not funded, kids are less than motivated, distracted by every piece of tech money can buy and are worried about their parents 401k.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Jan 1, 2009 23:16:31 GMT -6
No. You are just digging a deeper hole. What is the nearest inner city area to you? On average, what are the schools in those areas like? Not the magnet schools...not the cream of the crop...the average high schools in inner city areas that are near you. Now, compare those programs to the average suburban school programs near you. Use whatever criteria you want...test scores, percentage of kids receiving free and reduced lunches, graduation rates, facilities, single-parent families, neighborhood violent crime rates, drug arrests, teenage pregnancies, unemplyment rates...whatever YOU think the criteria should be. I would GUARANTEE that at the inner city schools, you are going to find FAR MORE issues that negatively affect student success than at suburban schools. At suburban schools, kids simply don't have the same baggage that kids who attend inner city schools have. Do suburban kids have baggage? Of course...however, at most suburban schools, there are all sorts of mechanisms to help those kids with baggage overcome their difficulties. That is more often NOT the case in inner city schools. The other thing to keep in mind is that kids who attend suburban schools typically come from families that value education...families that understand what the "purpose" of school is. At many inner city schools, that is not the case. Many students who attend inner city schools come from families where no one graduated high school and many of the adults don't have steady employment. Given that scenario, many of the kids who attend these schools simply don't understand the concept of education because they have no point of reference. Which, getting back to the original post, makes what this coach did all the more miraculous. The suburban schools in his conference are set up for success while the school he works at is, more often not, destined for failure. Despite that, he and his staff managed to overcome those conditions. I got ya delta and I do not think you need kalfi the defense lawyer to create arguments on your behalf. I applaud you for your patience with my comments. I get everything you saying about the inner city school and poverty and those challenges. What caught me though was your statement where you mentioned the odds of success being low but the coach won a bunch of games. So success to some extent relates to winning games and helping those kids. off the field distractions and adversity make it hard to focus on football. we agree on that for sure. what wasnt clear to me though was what you considered "odds" for success. I mean I lived in an area where the largest school in the entire state was dominant for a few years with one coach in place. They won and it was impressive for the same reasons, inner city school, poverty, gangs, on campus crime, poor attendance and all of those things. But when one took a closer look, they produced several division I scholarship players compared to 0 for the competition. They had twice as many males in the school and generally were far superior athletically to anyone they faced. when coached well they won games. That coaching staff went elsewhere (and produced another champion team) and the school, despite its huge student body and "great speed" in the program went to the crapper. The coaches there, all great guys, fought the fight every day. They couldnt get it done and in 3 years that program turned over. All of the adversity remained but there was one thing that was different. Where were the division I athletes and why had the prior staff taken their show on the road? Sometimes having great athletes makes overcoming the adversity a bit easier as it relates to "success" on the field eh? In any case, going back to the article. Good for that school and its students! Knighter here on this forum has a similar situation and you would do well to talk to him if this inspires you. I read an article about his team "Clarinda academy" I think. Thanks for the discussion even if you dont get my point.
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Post by khalfie on Jan 1, 2009 23:20:21 GMT -6
No. You are just digging a deeper hole. What is the nearest inner city area to you? On average, what are the schools in those areas like? Not the magnet schools...not the cream of the crop...the average high schools in inner city areas that are near you. Now, compare those programs to the average suburban school programs near you. Use whatever criteria you want...test scores, percentage of kids receiving free and reduced lunches, graduation rates, facilities, single-parent families, neighborhood violent crime rates, drug arrests, teenage pregnancies, unemplyment rates...whatever YOU think the criteria should be. I would GUARANTEE that at the inner city schools, you are going to find FAR MORE issues that negatively affect student success than at suburban schools. At suburban schools, kids simply don't have the same baggage that kids who attend inner city schools have. Do suburban kids have baggage? Of course...however, at most suburban schools, there are all sorts of mechanisms to help those kids with baggage overcome their difficulties. That is more often NOT the case in inner city schools. The other thing to keep in mind is that kids who attend suburban schools typically come from families that value education...families that understand what the "purpose" of school is. At many inner city schools, that is not the case. Many students who attend inner city schools come from families where no one graduated high school and many of the adults don't have steady employment. Given that scenario, many of the kids who attend these schools simply don't understand the concept of education because they have no point of reference. Which, getting back to the original post, makes what this coach did all the more miraculous. The suburban schools in his conference are set up for success while the school he works at is, more often not, destined for failure. Despite that, he and his staff managed to overcome those conditions. I got ya delta and I do not think you need kalfi the defense lawyer to create arguments on your behalf. I applaud you for your patience with my comments. I get everything you saying about the inner city school and poverty and those challenges. What caught me though was your statement where you mentioned the odds of success being low but the coach won a bunch of games. So success to some extent relates to winning games and helping those kids. off the field distractions and adversity make it hard to focus on football. we agree on that for sure. what wasnt clear to me though was what you considered "odds" for success. I mean I lived in an area where the largest school in the entire state was dominant for a few years with one coach in place. They won and it was impressive for the same reasons, inner city school, poverty, gangs, on campus crime, poor attendance and all of those things. But when one took a closer look, they produced several division I scholarship players compared to 0 for the competition. They had twice as many males in the school and generally were far superior athletically to anyone they faced. when coached well they won games. That coaching staff went elsewhere (and produced another champion team) and the school, despite its huge student body and "great speed" in the program went to the crapper. The coaches there, all great guys, fought the fight every day. They couldnt get it done and in 3 years that program turned over. All of the adversity remained but there was one thing that was different. Where were the division I athletes and why had the prior staff taken their show on the road? Sometimes having great athletes makes overcoming the adversity a bit easier as it relates to "success" on the field eh? In any case, going back to the article. Good for that school and its students! Knighter here on this forum has a similar situation and you would do well to talk to him if this inspires you. I read an article about his team "Clarinda academy" I think. Thanks for the discussion even if you dont get my point. Whale done coach...
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Post by davecisar on Jan 2, 2009 8:32:12 GMT -6
Just a handfull of examples why the inner-city program was so much harder to win at with the kids I coached:
My Last year in the inner city (IC) program I:
Had over 1/3 of the kids with no phones, we had to actually go to their homes to tell them a game time had changed after a rain out problem forced a last minute change in game time. My AC and I had to go to every one of these kids homes to give them the info. Any communication had to come through us.
This year My rural kids (RC), 74 of 75 had internet access and all had phones, most of the parents even had cell phones. Team moms did all the internet e-mails and phone calls. I never made a call.
IC: I took 9 kids to every game, 30 miles from my home to their homes. Good thing: they were all ready to go, bad thing, it took over an hour.
RT: My vehicle went out one day and a parent took me to and from practice, I never picked up or took home a single player from practice or game.
IC: On game day when I picked the kids up, even for 1:00 games, they were just getting up at 10-11. When I asked for a show of hands on how many had eaten breakfast, only 1 kid raised his hands. So from that day forward, I bought breakfast for each kid. Yes they were playing 1:00 games with no food in their stomachs. Early morning games could count on 90% of the kids not eating.
RC: Worry that they eat too much, not too little. Parents asking me about what they should be eating pre-game
IC: The kids walk to practice, but they have to get rides to away games. I take as many as I can so does my AC, BUT for those that have parents drive, good luck having them show up on time. Had several games "mom" gets kid to game as the games starts, halftime, 4th quarter.
RC: Kids all arrive at specified game EARLY well before the specified grouping time.
IC: Had one kid who came back to practice field, he's locked out of his apartments in the projects, right accross the streets from practice. I wait in my jeep with him AND 4 of his sisters until 10 PM when mom finally decides to come home. Mom fo course doesnt even acknowledge my existence
RC: This year worst problem was I had to wait after practice for 30 minutes due to 1 parent being late to pick up their kids, 1 time. Parents apologize effusively.
IC: Had kids miss games because: brother shot and killed attending funeral, dad in prison in Missouri the only day the family can see him conflicts with game schedule, family evicted from home and cordened off by police for drug bust,
RC: One Kid had staring role in a play and it conflicted with game, dad in from out of town ( single parent) wouldnt bring him to game.
IC: No money for anything just the basics and barely that, paying for most things out of my own pocket, No food or drink at any games, Im too busy coaching to sell pepsis and coach at the same time.
RC: Parents did a fund raiser without my knowledge, gave me check for about $4k, one of the grandparents of player died during season the wife gives me $4k and says but the team new gear husband would have wanted it that way. Parents set up nice concession stand.
IC: I have to go to about 20 homes to pick up gear at end of season, about 1/2 the gear has to be washed etc I spend well over 100 hours cleaning and fixing over 400 sets of gear.
RC: All but 2 sets of gear turned in at set time, other 2 sets people come to my home with gear in bags at set time, 100% cleaned etc Several parents volunteer to do equipment check and maintenance.
IC:About 25% of the kids playing in sneakers, we go to used stores and outfit them 1 day before first game in cleats
RC: All kids in cleats, many with underarmour, extra pads etc
IC: Had over 90% retention but did have 1 kid "disappear" went to his home to get my gear ( no phone) police tape over front door, piles of laundry and trach inside, door ajar, I went in foound my gear and took it. Kid never showed back at school. Had another kid quit because he kept getting jumped by gang members on way home. ( We ended up getting a ride for him so he could stay on team)
RC: Last season had 1 kid drop out of about 75, because of him not playing more than the minimum 16 plays and not playing him at DE.
IC: Weekly academic reports many kids doing real well, too many doing not very well at all.
RC:; We had almost half the kids on honor role, only 1 player, just 1 of about 75 below our academic minumum.
IC: Most years poorly attended, one year had away game with 2 parents. BUT in 2003 we did have several home games with over 150. Nothing organized.
RC: Most home games over 100 attendance per team, away games at least 60+. Well organized, banners, noisemakers, t-shirts etc.
RC: Team moms do signs in yards, signs on hotel room doors ( bowl games), t-shirts, stickers, banners, signs, music and announcer at games for the IC none of that even tough getting a chain crew.
IC: Every year a real battle to get 3 coaches per team, begging people all over town to coach. Well over 1/2 of coaches not dads, most of my teams 3 coaches, some even 2.
RC: Every year 5-7 coaches per team, all dads but me. This year the league limited coaches to 5 per team, I cant take any new coaches, all positions are full- In youth ball this is the biggest advantage
IC: Helping one of my struggling ORgs teams coached by first year college kids ( its either that or not havea team) Kid shows up for practice 40 minutes late, wont hustel or put gear on, bad attitude, I have him strip off gear and tell him to go home. Dad comes back screams at me throgh the fence he is going to "kill me, I'll be right back" Of course I thought he was going home to get a gun and it was getting dark. That week BTW right accross the street someone had been shot in broad daylight.
RC: Worst thing we had was a bad e-mail exchange about a kid whose parents thought he sould be playing DE.
IC: Had to eject a parent who was harrassing a ref with bad language, I stopped the game via delay of game penalties until parent left. Kid not allowed on field if parent in attendance. Had to take a delay and get in the face of several parents that came onto the field multiple times during a game. Huge guy threatens me asks who do I think I am. NEvr mind Im the founder, president and HC, he wouldnt know becuase he's never around etc.
RC_ Exact 100% opposite, like Mayberry during games.
IC: Had an observer shot and killed watching our practice. We hit the dirt. Police cars by all the time and even a police helicopter over the field twice.
RC: Playgrond equipment at field, I leave my 3 young kids unattended during practice to play, to give mom a break. So do other parents.
IC: Kid you not been in their homes to pick up gear, weed in full view in coffee table With People Smoking it Right in front of me. Had a player call me on phone ( answering machine) at 2:00 am on school night to sign up for next years team. I could go on for 1000s of words on this kind of stuff. Been to court many times with kids from our program and seen 3 of them murdered after they left our program. NOne of that kind of stuff happened to any of my rural kids.
Probably the worst though is the generational poverty and hoplessness these kids families have on the kids. They dont come from a "can do", appreciate education type environment for the most part. Like coach is trying to say. Bd things happen on occaision to my rural kids, we have one whose mom is an alchoholic and another whose dad left etc. But on the IC team nearly the entire team had those problems and more to come home to.
BTW the local IC HS team suits up 24 and have 1700 students. They play teams that regualarly suit over 100 and of course went 0-9 last year.
Too many more stories to tell.
NEt NEt NEt: In from the inner-city and thats where I prefer to coach. I love those kids. You affect the kids so much deeper there for eternity. BUT we moved 90 miles away and God put us in a different path for HIs own reason. BTW we won at the nearly the exact same rate at both places and had nearly identical retention rates.
It's night and day if youve ever truely experienced it in real life.
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Post by khalfie on Jan 2, 2009 10:48:15 GMT -6
Just a handfull of examples why the inner-city program was so much harder to win at with the kids I coached: My Last year in the inner city (IC) program I: Had over 1/3 of the kids with no phones, we had to actually go to their homes to tell them a game time had changed after a rain out problem forced a last minute change in game time. My AC and I had to go to every one of these kids homes to give them the info. Any communication had to come through us. This year My rural kids (RC), 74 of 75 had internet access and all had phones, most of the parents even had cell phones. Team moms did all the internet e-mails and phone calls. I never made a call. IC: I took 9 kids to every game, 30 miles from my home to their homes. Good thing: they were all ready to go, bad thing, it took over an hour. RT: My vehicle went out one day and a parent took me to and from practice, I never picked up or took home a single player from practice or game. IC: On game day when I picked the kids up, even for 1:00 games, they were just getting up at 10-11. When I asked for a show of hands on how many had eaten breakfast, only 1 kid raised his hands. So from that day forward, I bought breakfast for each kid. Yes they were playing 1:00 games with no food in their stomachs. Early morning games could count on 90% of the kids not eating.RC: Worry that they eat too much, not too little. Parents asking me about what they should be eating pre-game IC: The kids walk to practice, but they have to get rides to away games. I take as many as I can so does my AC, BUT for those that have parents drive, good luck having them show up on time. Had several games "mom" gets kid to game as the games starts, halftime, 4th quarter.RC: Kids all arrive at specified game EARLY well before the specified grouping time. IC: Had one kid who came back to practice field, he's locked out of his apartments in the projects, right accross the streets from practice. I wait in my jeep with him AND 4 of his sisters until 10 PM when mom finally decides to come home. Mom fo course doesnt even acknowledge my existence RC: This year worst problem was I had to wait after practice for 30 minutes due to 1 parent being late to pick up their kids, 1 time. Parents apologize effusively. IC: Had kids miss games because: brother shot and killed attending funeral, dad in prison in Missouri the only day the family can see him conflicts with game schedule, family evicted from home and cordened off by police for drug bust, RC: One Kid had staring role in a play and it conflicted with game, dad in from out of town ( single parent) wouldnt bring him to game. IC: No money for anything just the basics and barely that, paying for most things out of my own pocket, No food or drink at any games, Im too busy coaching to sell pepsis and coach at the same time. RC: Parents did a fund raiser without my knowledge, gave me check for about $4k, one of the grandparents of player died during season the wife gives me $4k and says but the team new gear husband would have wanted it that way. Parents set up nice concession stand. IC: I have to go to about 20 homes to pick up gear at end of season, about 1/2 the gear has to be washed etc I spend well over 100 hours cleaning and fixing over 400 sets of gear. RC: All but 2 sets of gear turned in at set time, other 2 sets people come to my home with gear in bags at set time, 100% cleaned etc Several parents volunteer to do equipment check and maintenance. IC:About 25% of the kids playing in sneakers, we go to used stores and outfit them 1 day before first game in cleatsRC: All kids in cleats, many with underarmour, extra pads etc IC: Had over 90% retention but did have 1 kid "disappear" went to his home to get my gear ( no phone) police tape over front door, piles of laundry and trach inside, door ajar, I went in foound my gear and took it. Kid never showed back at school. Had another kid quit because he kept getting jumped by gang members on way home. ( We ended up getting a ride for him so he could stay on team)RC: Last season had 1 kid drop out of about 75, because of him not playing more than the minimum 16 plays and not playing him at DE. IC: Weekly academic reports many kids doing real well, too many doing not very well at all. RC:; We had almost half the kids on honor role, only 1 player, just 1 of about 75 below our academic minumum. IC: Most years poorly attended, one year had away game with 2 parents. BUT in 2003 we did have several home games with over 150. Nothing organized.RC: Most home games over 100 attendance per team, away games at least 60+. Well organized, banners, noisemakers, t-shirts etc. RC: Team moms do signs in yards, signs on hotel room doors ( bowl games), t-shirts, stickers, banners, signs, music and announcer at games for the IC none of that even tough getting a chain crew. IC: Every year a real battle to get 3 coaches per team, begging people all over town to coach. Well over 1/2 of coaches not dads, most of my teams 3 coaches, some even 2.RC: Every year 5-7 coaches per team, all dads but me. This year the league limited coaches to 5 per team, I cant take any new coaches, all positions are full- In youth ball this is the biggest advantage IC: Helping one of my struggling ORgs teams coached by first year college kids ( its either that or not havea team) Kid shows up for practice 40 minutes late, wont hustel or put gear on, bad attitude, I have him strip off gear and tell him to go home. Dad comes back screams at me throgh the fence he is going to "kill me, I'll be right back" Of course I thought he was going home to get a gun and it was getting dark. That week BTW right accross the street someone had been shot in broad daylight. RC: Worst thing we had was a bad e-mail exchange about a kid whose parents thought he sould be playing DE. IC: Had to eject a parent who was harrassing a ref with bad language, I stopped the game via delay of game penalties until parent left. Kid not allowed on field if parent in attendance. Had to take a delay and get in the face of several parents that came onto the field multiple times during a game. Huge guy threatens me asks who do I think I am. NEvr mind Im the founder, president and HC, he wouldnt know becuase he's never around etc.RC_ Exact 100% opposite, like Mayberry during games. IC: Had an observer shot and killed watching our practice. We hit the dirt. Police cars by all the time and even a police helicopter over the field twice. RC: Playgrond equipment at field, I leave my 3 young kids unattended during practice to play, to give mom a break. So do other parents. IC: Kid you not been in their homes to pick up gear, weed in full view in coffee table With People Smoking it Right in front of me. Had a player call me on phone ( answering machine) at 2:00 am on school night to sign up for next years team. I could go on for 1000s of words on this kind of stuff. Been to court many times with kids from our program and seen 3 of them murdered after they left our program. NOne of that kind of stuff happened to any of my rural kids.Probably the worst though is the generational poverty and hoplessness these kids families have on the kids. They dont come from a "can do", appreciate education type environment for the most part. Like coach is trying to say. Bd things happen on occaision to my rural kids, we have one whose mom is an alchoholic and another whose dad left etc. But on the IC team nearly the entire team had those problems and more to come home to. BTW the local IC HS team suits up 24 and have 1700 students. They play teams that regualarly suit over 100 and of course went 0-9 last year. Too many more stories to tell. NEt NEt NEt: In from the inner-city and thats where I prefer to coach. I love those kids. You affect the kids so much deeper there for eternity. BUT we moved 90 miles away and God put us in a different path for HIs own reason. BTW we won at the nearly the exact same rate at both places and had nearly identical retention rates. It's night and day if youve ever truely experienced it in real life. Extraordinary post!
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 2, 2009 16:17:00 GMT -6
... Sometimes having great athletes makes overcoming the adversity a bit easier as it relates to "success" on the field eh? ... wow, steve ... this is a 180 from the perspective you've normally taken regarding coaching vs scheme vs talent and, this reminds me somewhat of your "man every play no matter what" thread ;D
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