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Post by khalfie on Dec 30, 2008 19:01:43 GMT -6
LSU vs G-tech...
Can this game provide insight into the age old question of scheme vs talent?
I ask because there are 3 scenerios taking place that eithers answers or poses more questions in regards to this timeless debate.
1. G-techs triple option... the same one that isn't supposed to work in big time football, has been giving big time football substantial fits. Now it takes on LSU... who's defense has had substantial opportunity to prepare, and more so is ranked 15th in the nation for rushing yards given up.
2. The talent differential. Supposedly G-tech doesn't have the same talent as the heavy hitters. Though LSu has struggled this year... it is one of the heaviest of the heavy hitters. Supposedly a QB away from a championship run... meaning their defense should be up to par.
3. The time to prepare. Any of the 100 of coaches on this board can tell you how to stop triple option, but doing it is an entire diferent story. However, not many collegiate teams have executed the road map to stopping the triple... some have seen down right inept in their efforts.
In short... does this game mean anything... does it answer any of those tough questions... or is it just another game that speaks to the G-tech and LSU and simply how they match up?
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Post by coachorr on Dec 30, 2008 19:10:14 GMT -6
I beg to differ with point number 1. GT's offense would be better if it were run out of the gun. Then it would be ready for big-time football. ;D
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Post by coachinghopeful on Dec 30, 2008 19:56:04 GMT -6
I think it does mean something, but I doubt anyone will take notice. No one is going to have faith in the triple option again in big time football until someone wins another National Championship with it or some cash-strapped NFL team gets the balls to buy into it and make it work. Even then, clueless talking heads and boosters will still blather on about how "you've got to run 'the shotgun spread' to win in today's game." ADs, networks, recruits with NFL dreams, and rich boosters who think they know football all believe that some kind of flashy, yet increasingly generic, spread shotgun offense is where the money and wins are at.
Remember a few years ago when Nebraska fired Frank Solich for only winning 10 games with that "outdated" I option, so they could bring in Bill Callahan to "modernize the offense?" That really worked out for them, didn't it? It's funny how a coach who throws the ball 60 times a game is always an exciting, innovative genius, while one who runs 60 times a game is boring, backward, and too conservative to win big games, even if the guy who runs more has a better record with less raw talent!
I've also noticed that a lot of the SEC players and coaches seem to buy into their own hype and don't take a "bush league" triple option offense seriously. Practicing against it must be a pain for them because their scout team QB is always some scrub WR or DB who hasn't taken snaps since HS. I really think a lot of them get overconfident from beating up on this kid who has no clue what he's doing. If you ever watch an SEC team (besides Florida) try to run an option, it's laughably bad regardless of their athletes.
Urban Meyer's great claim to fame has been recruiting well while running the triple option/wing-T/single wing stuff from the shotgun. Fans think he's being innovative when he's just running stuff that thousands of HS coaches have successfully leaned on for 40 years. The majority of fans and media types don't see it for what it is because most of them never watch games that aren't on TV and because they see offenses in terms of formation and plays, rather than scheme or philosophy.
Personally, I see GT running all over LSU and winning big because no one in the SEC (besides Florida) runs or defends the option worth a crap. It'll be like watching Tech play UGA all over again. Instead of crediting the triple as a viable offense everyone will just blame LSU's loss on Les Miles' incompetence. He'll be a laughingstock for not stopping the option when he knew it was coming.
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Post by bigdog2003 on Dec 30, 2008 20:33:50 GMT -6
I know that I am really looking foward to this game. Soon or later more teams will go to running the ball more with defenses that are created to stop the spread. There are smaller, faster dline and linebackers that would struggle some with a run heavy team. I am not just talking about the triple, mabye the Wing-t or power schemes will make a return.
I think GA Tech is a sleeper for next year. Some of my friends that don't coach thought that I was crazy when I said Tech would win the ACC. They are some of the ones that don't think the option will work in major college ball.
Some people think that the spread is the only way to win these days. They don't see the big picture. Yeah a good passing game looks great and is highly successful, but there is something about pounding on a defense for four quarters just breaking their will. I played in at a Wing-t school and now coach the online in the school system I played in. I love the running game and the passing game, but the run will always have a place in college football. Watch, some coach will get the marbles to run the Wing-t or Double Wing in the next few years and defenses won't be ready for it.
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Post by los on Dec 30, 2008 21:01:15 GMT -6
Khalfie.....I'd say that #1 = being one of the great equalizer offense's known to mankind, would cancel out #2 = if there actually is that much difference in talent?( This is Ga. Tech....they've been playing football a long time with a tradition and history of being winners) #3 = both teams have equal time to prepare.......so no advantage here, to me.....does this game mean anything or answer any tough questions?......uhhh.....I'm gonna go waay out on a limb here, and say......the team that blocks, tackles and executes "whatever they do"(with the fewest penalty's and turnovers) is "probably" gonna win the game......dang, doesn't seem that "insightful", after I read it again,sorry bro....lol ;D
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 30, 2008 21:58:19 GMT -6
LSU vs G-tech... Can this game provide insight into the age old question of scheme vs talent? I ask because there are 3 scenerios taking place that eithers answers or poses more questions in regards to this timeless debate. 1. G-techs triple option... the same one that isn't supposed to work in big time football, has been giving big time football substantial fits. Now it takes on LSU... who's defense has had substantial opportunity to prepare, and more so is ranked 15th in the nation for rushing yards given up. Just to put a more realistic light on this "stat"..LSU's rush defense gave up: 265 yards against Florida 194 yards against Georgia 138 yards against Bama 102 yards against Ole Miss 118 yards against Arkansas 110 yards against Miss State. Their ranking is padded a bit with games against weaker opponents (Ap State, Tulane, North Texas) and two "airraid" teams (Auburn and Troy). They had a very good showing against South Carolina. This is actually a pretty interesting aspect for the game. Miles has led LSU to 3 bowl blowout wins in his 3 years at the helm. Handling the 9-10 bowl practices and the extended layoffs can be a challenge, but so far he has shown a pretty good knack at LSU. Also, the bowl practice time does allow for more repetitions, so LSU has an advantage over other teams that had to face GT with the traditional 3 days of work. |
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Post by coachdawhip on Dec 31, 2008 9:53:03 GMT -6
LSU vs G-tech... Can this game provide insight into the age old question of scheme vs talent? I ask because there are 3 scenerios taking place that eithers answers or poses more questions in regards to this timeless debate. 1. G-techs triple option... the same one that isn't supposed to work in big time football, has been giving big time football substantial fits. Now it takes on LSU... who's defense has had substantial opportunity to prepare, and more so is ranked 15th in the nation for rushing yards given up. 2. The talent differential. Supposedly G-tech doesn't have the same talent as the heavy hitters. Though LSu has struggled this year... it is one of the heaviest of the heavy hitters. Supposedly a QB away from a championship run... meaning their defense should be up to par. 3. The time to prepare. Any of the 100 of coaches on this board can tell you how to stop triple option, but doing it is an entire diferent story. However, not many collegiate teams have executed the road map to stopping the triple... some have seen down right inept in their efforts. In short... does this game mean anything... does it answer any of those tough questions... or is it just another game that speaks to the G-tech and LSU and simply how they match up? 1. The biggest problem is that people don't realize is that tech does have the talent of a TOP 25 team at the skill positions if you listen to recruiting analysts. 2. Time should he prepare, but the biggest thing about bowl games are is your team happy to play there and ready to play? If not, bad things can happen either way. |
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Post by coachinghopeful on Dec 31, 2008 15:08:14 GMT -6
Khalfie.....I'd say that #1 = being one of the great equalizer offense's known to mankind, would cancel out #2 = if there actually is that much difference in talent?( This is Ga. Tech....they've been playing football a long time with a tradition and history of being winners) #3 = both teams have equal time to prepare.......so no advantage here, to me.....does this game mean anything or answer any tough questions?......uhhh.....I'm gonna go waay out on a limb here, and say......the team that blocks, tackles and executes "whatever they do"(with the fewest penalty's and turnovers) is "probably" gonna win the game......dang, doesn't seem that "insightful", after I read it again,sorry bro....lol ;D I say the team who scores more points than the other team by the end of the game will win ;D |
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Post by windigo on Dec 31, 2008 16:07:45 GMT -6
I say the team who scores more points than the other team by the end of the game will win ;D And I say that the team the blocks and tackles better will score more points at the end of the game. Systems are way overrated. Players win game coaches loose them. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 31, 2008 20:09:21 GMT -6
Miles has led LSU to 3 bowl blowout wins in his 3 years at the helm. Handling the 9-10 bowl practices and the extended layoffs can be a challenge, but so far he has shown a pretty good knack at LSU. Also, the bowl practice time does allow for more repetitions, so LSU has an advantage over other teams that had to face GT with the traditional 3 days of work. Well, Coach Miles has backed up this point so far. 35-3 at the half. |
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Post by coachinghopeful on Dec 31, 2008 20:54:24 GMT -6
Wow... I really whiffed on this one. I guess every coach who runs the triple option will have to face at least one more year of "that offense can't win anymore!" It's sad, really. Unless GT somehow stages the comeback of the century in the 4th, that is. They did say they were focusing on improving their passing...
So many LSU fans hate Les Miles, but the guy does a great job of prepping for bowl games.
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Post by los on Dec 31, 2008 22:01:43 GMT -6
Good analysis there coachd.....you know, I've wondered how many days a week during the season, a college team practices.....since they play on Saturday....figured they take off on Sunday....but....whats a typical "rest of the week" like? Then I guess, the couple weeks preceding a bowl game, would be different?
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Post by coachorr on Dec 31, 2008 22:44:40 GMT -6
Big kids on little kids.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 1, 2009 0:10:43 GMT -6
Well the GT little kids took it to their big kid bulldog brothers...who rolled up nearly 200 yards rushing against LSU... |
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Post by los on Jan 1, 2009 11:10:44 GMT -6
Exactly coachd.....now....maybe a younger team(with a new system to learn) vs a slightly older team,(minus the QB, who was pretty awesome for LSU) but, I can't buy "Ga. Tech doesn't get the same quality athletes"....check out the NFL rosters(past and present) for Ga tech alum....theres plenty of them there(at nearly every position)....what I can buy is = The LSU coaching staff did a great job preparing for this game....the defense played tough and didn't miss many tackles(like er uhh, that other GA. team, lol)....offense executed "what they do", very well....special teams were solid = they won the game.
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Post by phscoach08 on Jan 1, 2009 13:06:51 GMT -6
Geaux Tigers!!!!!
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Post by buck42 on Jan 1, 2009 17:04:34 GMT -6
I think that it is the overall talent difference and the time to prepare is crucial...
I think the reason that GT faired as well as they did this year is because teams do not have time to prepare...if you think about it, UNC stopped GT and I am sure that it helped that they had a week off before playing GT...
Someone said put the offense in the gun and it would be better...while that might be true...the ability to pass was poor and once they got behind a couple scores it was over...
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Post by khalfie on Jan 1, 2009 18:17:05 GMT -6
I think that it is the overall talent difference and the time to prepare is crucial... I think the reason that GT faired as well as they did this year is because teams do not have time to prepare...if you think about it, UNC stopped GT and I am sure that it helped that they had a week off before playing GT... Someone said put the offense in the gun and it would be better...while that might be true...the ability to pass was poor and once they got behind a couple scores it was over... Right... But when did this talent differential become so apparent? Almost everyone was lawding G-techs talent... QB and FB was getting it done... had a stud WR... defense was shutting down some of the better teams in the nation. Where's this talent deficiency... to LSU? An LSU team that got blasted by Ole Miss and others... Didn't have a descent backup QB... was supposedly going to be lights out on defense, but hadn't been such all year. Yeah... LSU put the beat down on a GT team that has had an outstanding year... What does it all mean? Nothing? Everything? Scheme does or doesn't matter? Coaching does or doesn't matter? How is Miles doing a poor job one week, losing to Ole Miss... but then an outstanding coach the next, shutting down the unorthodoxed flex? Is it really just a crap shoot? Can we throw darts at a board and have more accuracy in determining success... failure? |
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 2, 2009 2:15:16 GMT -6
Really, I think LSU had been underperforming for most of the year and just got their crap together in time for the bowl game. On top of that, it's a funny shaped ball and sometimes it bounces the wrong way, which is what I saw for GT. They couldn't stay within their scheme and their plan when so many things were going wrong.
I was really bummed because I really wanted this to be a good game.
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Post by gunrun on Jan 2, 2009 6:29:03 GMT -6
Props to LSU's preparation, but also I think GT somewhat stopped themselves by trying to throw the ball too much instead of sticking with what got them there. It didn't seem their QB was a good enough of a passer to warrant throwing the ball that much.
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