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Post by coachorr on Dec 26, 2008 18:02:25 GMT -6
This is not just a clinic, but I am looking to develop a complete off season summer program for youth coaches to benefit them and the kids they coach.
Here is a big brain storm so please let me know what you would find helpful from the local varsity staff
I wanted to begin helping the youth coaches in our area. What are some things that I as a High School coach can do to help the youth coaches. Here are some thoughts:
For sure ideas:
Graduated playbook
Non padded team clinic at the start of June to help with drills, fundies and team structuring
Padded team clinic at the end of July
Posssible ideas:
Coaches clinics covering various topics. These would be one to two hour sessions with varsity coaches talking about football topics from philosophy all the way down to drills.
Here is a list of possible topics:
1). Offensive philosophy. Introduction to the playbook and help adapting to the scheme. We are a shotgun zone read team, however, at the younger grades I would start with a few formations and be an I and I wing attack up until the 7th or 8th grades where we would begin transitioning into the Gun. Creating an offense that is a series of answers, which puts defenses in a bind (If they are stopping power then run power pass on second down not third down, if they are over loading the strong side then run ISO to the weak side etc.)
2)Offensive Line Run blocks and drills talking specifically to drills that increase leverage, footwork, individual blocks and combo blocks.
3) Offensive Line, making it the most important position on the team and pass blocking. Creative drills to increase footwork and aiming points for pass blocking and creative ways to improve the image of playing the position of offensive line. (Call em hogs and I will chop your nuts off) Special awards, dinners, comments infront of other players make sure they are captains and drink first etc. Image development of the player.
4) Creating the shotgun center.
5) Runningbacks Drills and skills on footwork and vision. And how to incorporate a running back into the offense.
6) Quarrterbacks. Drills and to improve arm strength and accuracy in the off season. How to increase quarterback effectiveness at the youth level through drills and coaching. Teach the coaches how to teach the Q's good fundamentals and reading.
7) Defsnsive philosophy. Beginning with a tilted bear front and then to a 44 tilt and finally in a 43 over under defense. Teaching Man, Cover II & Cover III.
8) Defensive Line- Skills and drills to improve footwork and ability to play the position as well as how to utilize the dline for every grade through a graduated defensive playbook. Beginning with a tilted bear front and then to a 44 tilt and finally in a 43 over under defense.
8) Same with LB's + drills on how to play down hill and read the triangle of the offense.
9) Cornerbacks- Drills and skills.
10) Safeties- Same in the framework of the defense.
11) Special teams, sure fire teams and accompanying drills that can create a simple, but well coached special teams unit at any level.
NOTE: I would try to record each presentation and have notes for coaches to keep. When the series was over at the end of the summer, I would then make a DVD pack and a bound notes presentation book outlining the details of what was spoken about.
Then I was thinking about creating a 7 on 7 league for our youth progrms.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 26, 2008 18:05:06 GMT -6
One major issue I see is getting coaches to come to ten or eleven different one or two hour presentations over the course of the summer. The idea would be to make sure the coaches were lined up with their teams in June possibly prior and then coaching the coaches up on what the kids will need to know when they are playing varsity. The camps would be 25 to $50 a camp and the clinic presentations and accompanying materials would be free.
Would this be a waste of time.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 26, 2008 18:08:03 GMT -6
Playbooks might look like this:
5th and 6th 3 formations 4 run plays 3 pass plays (primarily I, I twins and I wing) Runs would be Lead, Power, Dive and toss. Pass plays would be slants, power pass and maybe one other like curl/flat.
7th Grade 6 formations (3 gun formations) 5 run plays and a Route tree
8th Grade 10 Formations (6 to 7 gun formations) 5 run plays and a route tree.
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Post by cyflcoach on Dec 26, 2008 23:28:26 GMT -6
One thing you might consider coach is to hold a weekly "chalk talk" or mini-clinic in conjunction with BBQ or pizza and a few of your favorite adult beverages. We've done that in the past with our local high school staff and had good turnouts for most of the sessions. It allows the youth coaches to really feel like they're a part of your program and promotes their "buying in" to what you're teaching.
We also do a one day coaching clinic with the high school's varsity staff acting as presenters by position. My one suggestion would be to do as much on-field, "hands on", teaching of drills and techniques as possible. Many youth coaches love to "talk ball", but, honestly don't have a clue as to how to go about teaching fundamentals. If you can coach them up without having to single them out or make them feel uncomfortable, your program will be much stronger because of it in the long run.
Thanks for your willingness to involve your youth coaches in your program, I wish all coaches at the high school level were half as accommodating as you are trying to be. Best of luck with your endeavor coach!
Dave Hartman
CYFL Coach
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Post by los on Dec 26, 2008 23:30:19 GMT -6
Sounds pretty good to me coachorr, while our school program helped us with a bunch of stuff......field and lights....paid officials most of the year.....bus/driver when we needed it.....hs players ran the chain crew for us.....loaned us equipment for supersized kids.....they never offered a clinic like this, in the years I was there.....I think it probably would have made us better youth coach's (a lot sooner).....to learn something from the guys that do this for a living.....as it was.....we learned thru trial and error and eventually found things that worked, lol
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Post by davecisar on Dec 27, 2008 7:49:21 GMT -6
A 1 day clinic 6-8 hours is going to be much better attended than a weekly clinic. The best HS coach in our State, consistent State Title contender used to do multi session youth coaching clinics but stopped 2 years ago because the numbers got so low, wasnt worth his time etc. I might add time for practice organization ( where I see youth coaches making the most mistakes), making the practices tight, no time wasted, fun and instructional. We practice less than any team in our league, but we are consistently competitive and in over 95% of the games look better prepared than teams that practice twice as much as we do. Where I consistently see needs and huge failures with youth football teams: Game management. Character Development Speed Development Discipline HOW TO MANAGE A TEAM AND PARENTS ie establishing minimum play standards, maximizing playing time, controlling unruly and unrealistic parents, managing the coaching staff, setting and managing expectations/players/parents Nuances of the youth football dynamic compared to what daddy coach played last (HS football 20 years ago) Teaching methodology, not the specifics of what you teach each player but HOW TO TEACH in the most effective, creative and efficient manner so the player can develop the underlying skill, retain it and have fun while doing so etc How to develop a love, appreciation and enthusiasm for the game in each player. How to get a player over their intitial fear of contact and how to accelerate through contact. One they get a handle on that, then the coaches will have full teams, full practices and little if any retention issues. Which means you the HS coach will get more kids to choose from and coach when they get to the 9th grade. Of course my book and DVDs cover most of that  |
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Post by coachorr on Dec 27, 2008 10:21:32 GMT -6
Dave, could you please direct me to your commercialized website so that I could pay the nominal fee to obtain the set of DVD's and books on youth football?
Thanks guys, keep the comments coming. I think the comment about a one day clinic is a good one.
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Post by davecisar on Dec 27, 2008 10:26:12 GMT -6
Coach,
I won't put the website address on this site, but you can google my name and click staight from there.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 27, 2008 10:28:07 GMT -6
Well, I am sure it is not ESPN material but worth it, nonetheless.
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Post by mahonz on Dec 27, 2008 17:19:02 GMT -6
Coach
This all sounds great but there are some issues.
Like Dave suggested do your clinics in one sitting and if you host a camp do that in two or three full days all at once at the end of July. You will get a much better turnout and in turn better end results. I have attended many HS sponsored camps. The bad ones cant handle the numbers that show, the good ones can. Nothing worse than 100 kids with 4 coaches. Set up your camps to accommodate all age groups and then be sure to scrimmage the last half day. Round robins work great and keep them short. The best camps I have attended employ very energetic Seniors to help fill your staff. The kids will really respond to them…like a big brother. Make sure you include a nice t-shirt for each participant and give out a real HS varsity jersey to the hardest working player in each age group. Hire a group of mom volunteers off your team to prepare lunch and if you can get the cheerleaders to show up for a while. Things like this will keep them coming back since there is a lot of competition for their time each summer.
I wouldn’t press systems so much in your clinics. Drills, practice organization, how to deal with player agents, how to call plays on both sides of the football, discipline, time management, how to place talent, team building, the importance of special teams…but above all the detailed fundamentals of blocking and tackling.
For example. The read read zone at the 7th or 8th grade levels is not a great choice because you don’t see the HS or college defenses at the youth level….and for good reason. The 43 is not a great choice either because you almost never need 2 high safeties at the youth level. Yet if you teach great fundamentals through good practice sessions that you have developed as the model that will eventually fit into your HS varsity system… you will end up very happy in the long run. A team could run the double wing and the 63 and still develop great players for you…even though both systems are the polar opposite of what you run.
What I mean is simple. What if your current youth league follows the pop warner format? They are not developing linemen for you because the big kids cant play. If your current youth league is unlimited weight but has backfield limitations then they will be developing smaller kids at QB…when you may be looking for 6’ 180 ponders to play that position. So if you want to develop players for positions in your program you may end up beating many a dead horse. Just let the youth coaches do what they do under their constraints with your guidance. Task them to get the kids hooked on football and teach sound skills. It is rare that a kid will play the same position at the youth level that they will in HS.
You don’t want to force the round peg into the square hole and create a losing philosophy because kids are playing out of position and running systems that is not friendly to the youth game. Winning breeds winners at every level and yes winning matters. Many say that is secondary…I say just ask the kids. Personally I love the spread I and it works at the youth level with a great FB and half a passing game. I have also run the gun read zone too. It sucks at this level unless you incorporate a TE or a sniffer back. The 43 is lunch meat at the youth level as a base defense. A smart youth coach wouldn’t stick with it for long without major adjustments and why it is an extremely rare choice at this level. The 44 is a much better idea for the upper levels and the 46 with tilted tackles for the lower levels…generally speaking.
Finally, when you hold your coaches clinics don’t speak in foreign tongue. Remember who your audience is and dumb it down a bit. I have been coaching youth football since 1983 and have walked out of many HS sponsored clinics designed for the youth coaches that made me just scratch my head. Why? They had no clue whatsoever how to coach youth football. It is a completely different animal compared to HS ball.
My hat is off to you for your efforts. It will be a good thing if you can get some help to pull it off.
My 2 cents….
Coach Mike
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Post by catz1 on Dec 27, 2008 17:51:48 GMT -6
Some good comments.
I tend to agree that fundamentals should rule over scheme, and that getting kids excited about football is a huge plus for the HS program(s).
That said, there are lot of very bad youth coaches out there. They have 'no scheme' and just a gaggle of plays. They also have no core of skills, schemes, etc... that must be taught/rep'd for the team to be successful. Many pull most of what they do from their owns playing days, plus what they see on Sat/Sun.
(There are lots of good youth coaches out there too).
Anyway... I guess that my point is that improving the quality of youth coaches could be a primary goal. Teaching fundamentals, practice org, simple schemes and core plays (that build off each other) could help a lot of coaches... if they are open-minded about learning some of your stuff.
Just don't overwhelm them with too much, and don't be too rigid.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 27, 2008 19:45:56 GMT -6
Coach Mike,
Thanks for the response. I am going to digest it for a few hours and then get back to you. One comment, I have assisted at many youth camps as the Oline coach and have loved the heck out of it. More importantly, I have learned a ton from youth coaches while fullfilling that capacity. Many a good coach at the youth level, my goal would be to get them on the same page, as you say, "Fundamentally" as in fundamentals. I agree, it doesn't matter the scheme so much as developing players and getting the players to have fun and love the game.
Thanks a ton!!
Coach Paul
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Post by headtrip on Dec 27, 2008 23:35:22 GMT -6
what's wrong with hogs? i was a hog and never looked at it as anything negative, just the opposite. we were hogs, we weren't the pretty boys we were hard core, we made the offense work (or not). every td belonged to the hogs.
we even had our own breakdown separate from the others, we always had a team breakdown but we still had ours. that was highschool though.
discipline, unity, leadership... HOGS
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Post by coachorr on Dec 28, 2008 1:20:28 GMT -6
Do you call the dance team (sometimes made up of heavier set ladies) "The hogs"? What is a hog? A slimy fat animal that wadles around in the muck and eats swill. Just because the Redskins did it in the eighties doesn't make it cool. Similar concept to the mullet.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 28, 2008 1:27:18 GMT -6
Back on topic.
I agree with the "don't force a system on them", but I have watched some of the stuff they have run and it is atrocious.
I like the idea of a one day clinic with a lunch. The more I think about the more I agree that one a week would not be beneficial.
I also like the idea of creating a multi day camp. We did this last June when I was an assistant at a cross town school. It was a non-padded camp, we did three practices over a period of two days. We had a 1to 10 ratio coach to kid.
One thing I want to do is to be helpful and constructive and not arrogant and threatening. So with some of these ideas I think we can create something good.
Please continue to post ideas.
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Post by headtrip on Dec 28, 2008 1:58:47 GMT -6
seriously you're from idaho and didn't know this? maybe it's a southern thing. i mean even the u of arkansas thought enough of them to adopt them as its mascot
no i wouldn't call a dance team hogs, nor would i call backs or recievers hogs either. it takes a certain mentality to want to dominate a person that lines up in your face, the o line has to be mean, and aggressive every play. people down here associate hogs(wild boars) with those qualities.
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Post by headtrip on Dec 28, 2008 2:04:04 GMT -6
what are they running? if they aren't taking it on themselves to try to learn an offense or a defense on their own when it's already so available how are you going to get them to come to your clinic.
a local college is starting up a football program, the head coach held a clinic for youth coaches and had a horrible turnout, there was very little advertising for it, but still you get the idea.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 28, 2008 2:21:29 GMT -6
The local college coach won't be coaching their boys. I will. The further ahead of the curve they are the better chance they will have to play. It isn't a question of will they come, that has already been answered by many local youth coaches.
We don't have wild hogs in Idaho. The only hogs we have are fat enormous beasts that eat chyt for food. You just answered my ambivalence in your own quote:
"The name pig, hog, or swine most commonly refers to the Domestic pig (Sus domestica) in everyday parlance, but technically encompasses several distinct species, including the Wild Boar."
The term was popular in the late eighties with the Redskins and went out in the nineties. When I hear the word "hog" I don't think of a wild boar I think of Wilbur. I am dropping it and getting back on track.
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Post by headtrip on Dec 28, 2008 4:39:46 GMT -6
the local college coach is joey jones, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Jones_(American_football) the college will be d1 (or whatever they're calling it now) within a few years of starting. he's a big name here and couldn't pull the numbers. it may be different in your case. you describe what they run as atrocious, to me that smells of apathy and possibly ignorance. if it's just ignorance you can fix that, but given the amount of information that is this available in this day and age there's probably a good bit of apathy mixed in there. have a plan b, take some time to help out a coaching staff one on one. show up at some of their games. apathy will disappear when "your teams" are consistently winning. |
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Post by catz1 on Dec 28, 2008 9:02:06 GMT -6
I agree with the "don't force a system on them", but I have watched some of the stuff they have run and it is atrocious. I know exactly what Coach Orr is saying here. I think (hope) most coaches are trying to do a good job, but creating a system (or even implementing someone else's system)takes a lot of work, clear thought about what to focus on (and what not to), attention to detail, building/training a staff, etc... I think it takes a committed, & ORGANIZED person to do this well. It also takes some base level of knowledge, ability to teach to kids with a wide variety of experience, aptitude, and attention span. Let's face it... not everyone has these traits. So... why not pull together a base package... schemes, base plays, formations, drills, practice plans, etc... Train your youth coaches to that package. If you go this way, I would be really careful about what (& how much) you put in the package. I would also not try to be too rigid in how it is implemented. Most coaches will want to add their own wrinkles. BTW... here's an example of a reasonable (IMHO) youth scheme to focus on... let's say 11-12 years old. Wing-T Offense Buck Series - Buck Sweep, Guard Trap, Waggle Belly Series - Belly, Down, Tackle Trap Counter, Belly Keep Pass, Down Keep Pass Formations Wing Right / Wing Left Red / Blue Defense 4-4 Split +goaline package and adjustments to trips & unbalanced BTW... this is not what I run... just an example. |
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Post by mahonz on Dec 28, 2008 9:45:48 GMT -6
Coach
Absolutely promote your camps as full pads full contact. Also the end of July is right before the youth season gets under way so the kids have all their equipment at the ready and are chompin’ at the bit to hit somebody. Anything earlier and you have baseball issues.
Many youth organizations do not allow any organized practices prior to August 1. You can promote your camp to the youth coaches as a precursor to their preseason and invite them to show and by all means bring their teams. No matter what a youth org says or tries to do they have no jurisprudence over you. A HS camp is not and never will be an illegal organized practice. There are a few local HS camps in our area whereas 80% of the participants are nearly complete teams. They pull in 100’s of kids at 175 bucks per. That will certainly buy your program some nice gear.
As far as the 7 on 7 thing. That may already exist if your community has a flag program. Maybe sponsor a team in that league.
There exists some terrible coaching at the youth level so by all means provide some tried and true systems for them if needed. The issue is there are 100’s of playbooks out there that do not include the important stuff…like how to execute the system. Maybe that can be part of your DVD package upon their exit??? Just be sure you are providing them with a good youth system. I would not troubleshoot in depth for the lower levels…only the upper levels where the kids have a few years under their belts and are getting serious about the game. If you make yourself available to every single issue out there your HS program will suffer because you are inundated with the youth stuff. What you are proposing is a huge undertaking so I hope your wife is an understanding woman. You will have to figure out just how available you are during the season.
Coach Mike
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Post by coachorr on Dec 28, 2008 10:16:14 GMT -6
"The issue is there are 100’s of playbooks out there that do not include the important stuff…like how to execute the system."
This is where I am coming from exactly. You've hit the nail on the head. I have told youth coaches before, "I don't care what system you run as much as teaching the kids what they will use when I get em". I can always use kids who can block and tackle.
I have some close friends who are youth coaches and they are great guys and great coaches and we talk all the time. One issue is, however, I did not get a teaching job where I always coached. On this side of town, spcifically, the two middle schools that feed me have some situations that are not the best.
Last year I showed up to the eighth grade practice a couple of times and once I ran the practice, because the coach could not be there. Anyway, they were doing things like making the kids run 2 miles at the start of practice and a mile at the end of practice. They had a HS playbook (well playsheet), which did not indicate which back got the ball. So in Splitback Pro in power for example, they were giving the ball to the full back and trying to have the half back. Then at the end of practice, they said, "Let's do some hittin". Then they lined the kids up across from eachother and went one on one tackling. It was actually the most football related thing they did other than run plays for an hour.
My thought is, to condition the kids, run a drill that is football related. Run an offense and defense that are simple and sound.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 28, 2008 10:20:11 GMT -6
Head trip:
"if it's just ignorance you can fix that, but given the amount of information that is this available in this day and age there's probably a good bit of apathy mixed in there."
This is a good point. I would also add, that some have a hard time having a little bit of humility to ask for help. Somehow, I need to create a non-threatening environment. And I think that forcing a playbook would not be the best way to do this, however, give a talk on offensive systems. I don't care what Offense they run, as much as I just want them to teach kids the game and focus on the details.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 28, 2008 10:35:24 GMT -6
Let me just add, I am not the HC for the High School. I am the HC for the Freshmen and an assistant offensive line coach for the varsity. I see it as my job to get the kids ready to play for the high school so, as far as hurting our high school program it won't.
I would like to have kids that know how to get in a stance and have some back ground other than just doing monkey rolls and running three miles a day.
Thanks for the ideas. I am going to put out feelers on the camps. The logistics of the camp being padded may not work, as the youth organization contols all of the pads. They have indicated, however, that they would support a camp. I just have to find out what kind of camp they would support.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 28, 2008 11:44:25 GMT -6
Catz, I was an oline guy in a wing t system for 8 years and what I liked about the Wing T is that it created angles, was misdirection, and was a system. Great for penetrating dlinemen.
What I don't like about the wing t is that every block has to happen, you never run down hill at a defense other than trap and it takes a long time for a coach to really understand how it is in fact a "system". But most importantly, we do not run it.
But as an example, I see where you are coming from. Honestly, if I were goign to offer a different scheme for youth coaches to run, I would offer the DW.
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Post by coachorr on Dec 28, 2008 11:48:57 GMT -6
Head trip. I just read the bio on Coach Jones. If that guy were offering a clinic in my neck of the woods, I would be sure to go. A guy who has been coaching that long at that level and who also played for the Crimson Tide, obviously has some good stuff to teach. Too bad others missed that boat.
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Post by catz1 on Dec 28, 2008 11:54:54 GMT -6
Catz, I was an oline guy in a wing t system for 8 years and what I liked about the Wing T is that it created angles, was misdirection, and was a system. Great for penetrating dlinemen. What I don't like about the wing t is that every block has to happen, you never run down hill at a defense other than trap and it takes a long time for a coach to really understand how it is in fact a "system". But most importantly, we do not run it. Coach Orr. Don't want to turn this into a wing-T debate, but I will say that there are a lot of people running the wing-T in some very different ways... Gun, Jet/Rocket Heavy, Spread sets, passing heavy, etc... I agree that some of the traditional wing-T plays... ie Buck Sweep require several critical blocks. I personally have moved away from this, and have used Jet Sweep as a core play. We also run quick hitting ISO (Jet Ice) and Down off of Jet motion. We have wide counters (Truck Rev & Power Ctr). We also throw Bunch routes and Quick Passes. I guess the quick point is that there are new wrinkles that address the concern that you noted above. I don't have much of our stuff posted yet, but you can go to my Belly Sweep / Down Sweep post (Youth Offense section) to see these plays... I also have some of our passing stuff up at the same youtube location. May be irrelevant, but thought you might be interested in our Freshman stuff. BTW... where do you coach? |
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Post by coachorr on Dec 28, 2008 12:23:28 GMT -6
These are the wing-t plays I run out of Gun: Belly Trap Down GUT Jet Sally Not traditional Delaware stuff, but the exact same concepts. Denny Crehan made the point once, use formations that give you an advantage, specifically when he has talked about running Loose Red and Blue and attacking the 50 defense with Belly Keep. I just happen to run a lot of quarter back belly. I coach in Idaho Falls Idaho at Idaho Falls High School. Used to coach at Skyline High School across the river. Here is an example of the scheme from which I have come if you are interested. www.idahosports.com/gamestreams/0607/football/state/Highland_Skyline_11_3_06.aspWhere can I check out your stuff? |
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Post by coachorr on Dec 28, 2008 12:24:56 GMT -6
Let me rephrase the statement that we do not run the Wing-T. "My team runs wing-t concepts, but not specifically the Delaware wing-t".
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Post by catz1 on Dec 28, 2008 12:47:30 GMT -6
Where can I check out your stuff? Passing Highlights - Mostly Mesh, Flood, Quicks (some Verts & Screens) Belly/Down Sweep plays shown at same youtube location. Will put up more soon... Jets, Ice, Down, Trap, Power Ctr, Truck |
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