Winning with Less

Oh yes, we played one of those teams last year, run a dynamic wing t. I witnessed year after year a wing t program (run it from grade 3 up) win with smaller kids than anyone else in the league. Some years their qbs are five foot 7 and can run alittle but not much in the arm strength department. Always have tough guards and fullback but very undersized. They are the smallest school in their conference yet the head coach just topped 170 career victories running pure wing-t. Their junior high is always in the top 3-4 teams as well. One thing I have taken notice of is the junior high staff has not changed in at least 10 years.

I would imagine all of those schools have some of these characteristics:
1. Discipline
2. Fundamentals
3. Few mistakes (Mental, penalties and missed assignments)
4. They probably run offenses and defenses that are NOT too complicated but they run them very well.
5. Organization
6. Tough gritty kids (Makes up for lack of size and speed)

I played in one of those types of programs. We had 2 or 3 kids the whole time I was in the program jh-hs go Div 1 or 2 and one of those was a walk-on. We won multiple state titles and were a constant deep-running playoff team.

One thing we had was players who bought into the system. Coaches did not need to get on players for missing a workout session or doggin it in practice/weight because the players did that themselves. We did not have fights or kids cussing other kids out but we had a system where juniors and seniors policed the team. In my eyes, this was one of biggest reasons for having success.

The coaches coached, they didnt have to come chasing after kids, play babysitter, or police every little aspect of the team. Most problems were self-policed by the kids. Self-policing is the same thing that has to happen out on the field. Coaches are on the sidelines and it is up to the players to work through problems.

Once you buy into a system and have some success, you build confidence. Any kid is going to play with all he has if he knows the rest of the team is doing the same and they are going to be successful. Other teams thought it was cockyness or arrogance, but we felt when we stepped on the field we were going to not just win, but dominate.

Maybe it is lack of coaching experience, lack of age, or growing up not growing up not caring about how good the other team was suppose to be but I feel the "jimmies and joes" argument is blown a bit out of proportion. I agree sometimes a team is just going to be better no matter what. However, i have played in games where the other team had multiple d-1 athletes and we were just some small town country boys. On paper the game is no contest, but in reality the better team, in all aspects of the word team, won the game.

I feel most of the time the "jimmie and joes" argument is given by teams that are under prepared. The reason their jimmies and joes were better was because they had kids that bought in and kids that understood the goal. It is the same fight I am trying to go at right now. When I got at my school (first ever coaching job) we were 0-36. In two years we were 7-3 and just missed the playoffs. We have talent running all over the school. However, we are still fighting buying in by players and getting that losing mentality out. Once all, or at least a large majority, start to buy into the system that is when we can build the program.

Great points about not chasing kids to come to the weight room and not having kids who are a problem off the field. At the high school level I truly believe you can have success with kids who are good people, good students and work hard. If they have a passion to play and have the above characteristics I believe you can success year in and year out. Plus coaching kids like that make it A LOT more fun.

We had to win with less this year and will have to do it again next year. My top rb runs the presidents test shuttle in a "blazin" 9.1 seconds.

Doesn't it still begin and end with coaching? I mean, those programs that go deep into the playoffs every year regardless of the talent level; it has to be the coaching. Sure, the kids are tough and gritty, have discipline, work hard in the off-season, play with everything they have, etc. But, if that is happening year after year after year, then it is happening because of the coaching. If it's not the coaching then it's still the Jimmies and Joes; whether that means that the kids are simply the best athletes or just the hardest working.

Agree with above. Coaching the the fundamentals and having discipline will make you a good program.

It all comes down to pride, really. Pride the players have in themselves and in their team and pride the coaches have in themselves and their players. That's what "winning tradition" is all about. Stuff like that builds a program.

Simplifying things to where anyone can know what to do is important too. The great Gen. Robert Neyland famously said "Football is a game of mistakes. The team that makes the fewest mistakes usually wins."

Before I was born we had a coach like that in my hometown. His name was Jay Salley of Church Hill High School in TN. In roughly 25 years he won 67% of his games at a small school that never won anything before he got there (ask Lloyd Carr, whose family moved the boy away just before Salley got there). He had multiple undefeated seasons, one of the better records against the nation's leader in wins at the time (a local rival), and won a state championship in 1972. He might have won state more often, but for most of his career there were no playoffs and the champs were voted on by the AP, which was more about politics than football. One season in the 60s Church Hill went 10-0 and watched the state go to a 9-1 team they'd actually beaten!

Players would gladly bust their @$$es for Coach Salley for hours on end and thank him for the motivation to get stronger and better. Really, the kids did such a good job of pushing each other that the coaches didn't have to work too hard at it. Running 5 miles a day in 90 degree summer heat, pushing themselves to get their bench press over 300bs so they wouldn't be the team weakling, etc--that was just expected. He sent a handful of guys to big time programs (most of those were OL), but most of his kids took full time blue collar jobs after graduation and started families.

It was your classic, mostly white, working class small town America scene circa the 60s and 70s. Church Hill High School Football was all they had, and it was a source of pride for the whole community. Lifelong friendships were formed in that locker room under Salley's guidance. Boys became men under Friday night lights. Ask anyone in town who was around then and they might even get a little misty as they talk about the memories of Church Hill football and Coach Salley.

In a town of under 3,000, Salley's team packed the house for every game, win or lose. The stadium had massive concrete bleachers along both sides which were paid for out of community donations, yet would still be standing room only. It wasn't just an impressive structure either. There was a tragic history there: one of Salley's most beloved players, Mike Johnson, died there at the age of 20 while watching a game from the pressbox. A year before he'd made the All-ACC team as a sophomore C at Georgia Tech. Then he was diagnosed with terminal leukemia and sent home to die. Salley led the campaign to rename the stadium for Johnson as a tribute to his memory. There were no objections.

Salley retired in 1980 when his school got consolidated--rumors say he was snubbed for the HC job at the new place over politics, so the final game for Church Hill High was also his last as a coach. The community loved him so much they took up a collection and surprised him with a car at halftime of his final game as a retirement gift. The normally reserved Salley was moved to tears by the gesture. They won the game on a last minute TD from 2 yards out on 4th down. My uncle was the FB who scored it. Our whole family is proud of that.

The thing that really sticks out to me is that when they talk about the great Coach Salley, they talk about what a great man and teacher he was first before ever mentioning any of the games he won. He never yelled at a kid, they said. He wasn't one for rabid, blustery speeches. He just talked to them like adults. One time his team was getting drilled 21-0 by their cross county rival. He called a time out, gathered everyone together on the sideline, and calmly asked "Boys, these guys are whippin' your @$$. Now, I don't know about you, but I don't like gettin' my @$$ whipped. Why are you lettin' 'em do it?" They got the message and won 31-24.

God help the officials, though. They must have thought he was the devil himself!

What happened at the new school is instructive in how NOT to treat a program with a proud tradition. Forgive me if I'm rambling now...

The new school was denied any official ties to the two it replaced. The conference and state chamionship trophies, walls of fame, etc. were all put into storage. A new coach was hired in to helm the new consolidated school. He changed everything. With shiny new facilities, the same talent pool and the same competition as the old program, the new one didn't finish .500 or better or make the playoffs for 15 years. It became a joke. Most seasons they were lucky to finish 3-7.

The community didn't identify with the new school, which was given a generic name and built just beyond the city limits off a major highway (the old one was centrally located in a residential neighborhood). The old stadium and its history was replaced by a (usually half empty) nameless generic one-stander at taxpayer expense.

For 17 years the new school had no booster club or much of a feeder system. Coaches would usually last 4 years or so before getting burnt out or fired--all were still compared to the legend of Coach Salley. Most of those coaches would publically tell the press that their team just lacked the speed to compete with the local schools, even though this same talent pool of kids used to beat those other programs consistently. Numbers dropped from about 30% of eligible boys working hard to imrpove to about 7% resigned to their fate as losers. Parents of talented players would drive 20-25 minutes or more and pay a few hundred dollars in out-of-county tuition to get them in better programs. Rival coaches would even (illegally) recruit players out from under them. The program missed out on more than a few Div 1 athletes like that. This program just wasn't good enough to beat anybody. Even the coaches said so!

The last decade there things have gotten better. They've gone through another coach, Gene Venable (a longtime Salley assistant), who changed the culture and revamped the infrastructure. His replacement is from a football family (grandfather is a coaching legend in a nearby town and his cousin is Jason Witten of the Cowboys) and has smartly built upon the groundwork laid by his predecessor instead of trying to reinvent things. They finally had their first playoff win under him 2 years ago--they were a 21 point underdog. That was nice to see. Now they've got 5 playoff appearances, 2 winning seasons (3 others of .500), and that playoff win in 13 years. Still not what they were, but at least it's improved from the first 15.

Just goes to show how much of a difference the right coach can make, not only on a football program but on a community as a whole. And coaches, even if you're not winning, what really matters is that you do right by the kids you've got. If you do that, every player, every win, every good thing you add to that program builds up the whole community. That's what defines a great coach, I think.

Oh, and if anyone's interested, Sally usually ran a WT-6 defense and single wing/wing-t/wishbone offenses. Nothing fancy. It was all in the attitude and work put into it.

I agree with what everyone has said. I am the HC at school where I am the 5th HC in 8 Years and the 4th in the last 4 years. The hard part is where I am at now is that you are trying to get kids to buy into the program. They are so used to not working, that is the culture that we have. We only had 34 kids in the program (JV and V) this year. So winning with less most is definitely what we have to do. I have heard you guys say that consistency is so important. I agree but trying to get kids to buy into what I am telling them and only winning 1 game last year is difficult. I am having to be the police, babysitter, and get on kids about missing workouts, and everything else.

I have a priority list of things that have to happen, and first and foremost is to beat the hallways and get more kids out. Now we are lifting with an avg of 12 kids. I am trying to start a leadership council to have the kids govern themselves but they just need to be taught. That I plan on doing as well, with some leadership classes, and team building activities. Any help that you guys may offer I am willing to listen.

This situation is new to me, because at my other program, at least I had 80 kids in the program. No kids is very new to me. But I know others have done it, and I just need that blueprint.

right on the nuts delta

I was a part of a situation like that in HS as a player, not a coach, but I hope my experience can be helpful. I've been reading up on HS success stories lately, so I hope some of my research can help point you in the right direction. Be ready to work harder and longer than you realized, but it can be done.

"Winning communities" all had to start somewhere. Once people start winning, everyone gets excited. Once you string together a few winning seasons, the expectations rise--both the expectations people have for the program and the expectations players have for themselves. It just feeds off itself like that. That's why the same schools win year after year.

One thing that concerns me about your situation is why the turnover is so high on the coaching staff. Even getting blown out in every game or suffering with equipment from the dark ages shouldn't run that many coaches off. Something else is going on behind the scenes. Find out what it is ASAP and then come up with a plan to neutralize it before it claims you, too.

When you're facing any task that's bigger than yourself, it's good to bring it down to a manageable size. Think of it like a QB dropping back to pass. Would you ask him to read all 11 guys on defense and know where all 10 of his teammates are going to be? Of course not! You shrink the game: give him a few keys to work through on each play.

Take that approach to building a program. You're in a pretty bad situation right now, but I believe any HS football program can become consistent so long as they have the right man in charge. You've got to rise to the occassion. The fact that there isn't much winning tradition there gives you what the politicos call "a mandate for change."

However, before anyone even sets foot in the weightroom on your watch, I'd focus on organization before the year. For you, the season just started. You need a gameplan to attack this big ugly mess. Work on your keys! To a large extent, they're more political and psychological than they are athletic. You've got to get everybody's support so you can see this through.

There are 7 main groups you've got to win over to be successful (listed in order of importance).

1. The kids
2. The football coaching staff
3. The administration and faculty
4. The other coaches in your school
5. The parents and boosters
6. The feeder system
7. The media


Now, in a suggested order:

1. You've got to get your assistants on board first, right down to every last detail, or nobody'll be on the same page. Hold a group meeting/brainstorming session first, then follow up with them individually a week or so later. Be very diplomatic. Ask what the real weaknesses are in the program and what needs correcting. Ask them what they know about the school's traditions, history, etc. Ask them for any ideas they've got about how to improve this thing and get people--any people--interested. If you didn't hire them, run your philosophies by them and then get them to do the same--let their experience and knowledge be an asset within your system. If there's anyone you simply cannot work with, now's the time to find out. If one comes up with a good idea, make sure he gets credit for it. If you have to shoot an idea down, be respectful about it but remember you're the HC and the buck has to stop with you. Always.

2. Next, get the faculty and administration on your side. That's a big one, as they're the ones you'll need in your corner when (not if, when!) your job is in question. Be a professional. Be likeable. Prove your concern for the kids outside of football. Partner with the teachers and admin to insure that your program is going to be nothing but positive for the school. If player isn't doing homework or is a discipline problem, you want to know!

3. Partner with the coaches in other sports as much as possible since you'll be sharing most of your best athletes with them--some can be VERY territorial about this (these are often the ones with a lot of pull), so try to diffuse the situation pre-emptively. Try to work with them to develop a year round weight/speed/agility program that'll benefit everybody and allow you to all share the work of running it. Tell them that when a promising athlete comes along you'll send him their way and let them know you'd appreciate the same consideration. This could be good for landing you a few solid starters each season.

4. So, now you've got your co-workers lined up and the school is behind you. That didn't take too long, but you're just now getting to the most important part: getting players to buy in.

In order to buy in, the players have to know they can trust you to see this thing through, be there for them, and not run off after a year like all their predecesors have done. They've got to know you really do mean business, unlike the last 4 coaches who said the same things you are now.

Your first challenge is going to be to bring enthusiasm. Losing has beaten these kids down. They have no self confidence, no hope, and thus no work ethic. You've got to build 'em up!

Call a team meeting (preferably during school hours) for the returning players as well as anyone interested in coming out. Here you make your sales pitch. Let them all know things are changing, you're committed to seeing it through, and you'll go that extra mile for them. Establish an open door policy that allows them to come to you at any time for any reason if they need to talk. These kids probably think those other schools have athletes who are just naturally bigger, stronger, and faster than they are. Make sure they understand that doesn't just happen by itself. They can be just as big and bad if they do the right stuff in the weightroom. Really talk up the awesome, proven workout routine you've got in store for them that'll turn them into badasses if they just put the sweat into it. Make sure to mention for the weight room a bunch of times so everyone knows when they can drop by.

Don't talk about wins! Don't talk about stats! Don't talk about any numbers at all! Stats are for wannabes! If you do things the right way, the wins will take care of themselves. Don't blow smoke up their butt with talk of instant championships and everyone going Div. 1 or they'll think you're a phony. Instead focus on enthusiasm, persistence, and pride. Be a positive influence--treat the mere status of being a football player and playing under the Friday Night lights as their own rewards for all the persistence in the offseason. You're not looking for freaks of nature. You're looking for tough, hard nosed men who'll go to war and leave it all on the field. Nothing more.

So now you've made your sales pitch. Stay on message until the kids internalize it and make it a part of themselves. Make this about their right of passage into manhood and their role on a team. In the end, it all comes down to pride. You want them to have sincere pride in everything they do and to feel loyal to their teammates as well. Kids today are desperate for an identity and a place where they belong, have status, and a purpose. Let football give them that.

Now, the foundation of any good football team, of course, is in the weight room. Short term, achievable goals are great for building momentum and confidence. Focus on the hard working kids you have and crank up the fun and intensity factor to push them. Set up good natured competitions in the weightroom. Encourage showing off! Establish a rule about forced reps--even if he hits failure, there's no quitting until the job is done! I'm not sure if that makes you physically stronger, but it conditions your mind. The more brutal and intense the workouts, the more brutal and intense the team'll be on Fridays. Carry this intensity over into practice when the pads come out.

Talk to the kids. Get to know them. Talk about stuff outside of football. Take up for them if someone's unfairly giving them a hard time. Bond with them. Hell, make the workouts the epitome of male bonding. Make the weightroom the cool place to be... but make sure it stays intense and focused. You're always going to get a bunch of slackers who want to be cool and be the big superstar athlete but aren't even willing to break a sweat. You're not staying there late to play grabass with them! If they want to play grabass, tell 'em to go join the drama team!

Now, I don't think it's good to refer to the weightroom as "mandatory" (makes it sound unpleasant). No, it's not "mandatory," but only those who work out are on your team and they're the ones who will go into spring/fall practice as the #1s. Even if you know the kid won't be your starter in week 1, at least give him a shot as a lesson to others. If there's a better player, let him "beat" the working kid for the position but try to find that kid a role somewhere. Everyone needs to see how dedication is rewarded. You need examples for the rest to look up to.

Regardless of who actually starts, those hard working kids are your leaders. Make them your captains regardless of seniority and let them be the ones who decide on whether that kid who wants to join at midseason gets a place on the team. It legitimizes things that way. You're not betraying their efforts to get better.

Start gameplanning all your opponents for next season NOW. If possible, schedule a creampuff early in the year to get a momentum building win. Have your bread and butter offense and defense ready to install weeks before spring practice. Also, look up the rules on practice time in your district and make sure to take advantage of everything they'll give you. Your preparation will pay off big time.

If you get spring practice, here's a tip I picked up from reading about Bo Schembechler (sorry... I'm not a Michigan fan). He said that after spring, he would always schedule individual meetings with each one of his players and tell him exactly where that player stood and what Bo expected from him in the fall. It worked great for giving kids goals to focus on over the summer, as well as showed each player what his role was and that the coach has was taking notice.

Finally, while you've got to get everyone on your side, you've also got to set and enforce discipline. With the culture at that school no one will truly respect you until you prove you're for real. Don't make up a ton of rules or try to turn your players into robots--that's just asking for trouble and rebellion, but let them know what you expect of them and what the consequences will be if they don't live up to those expectations. You're going to be tested early by spoiled brats and bums. When they give you a real discipline problem, cut out the cancer before it spreads! Especially if the kid's a "star." It's like going to prison: you have to find the biggest, toughest guy there and kick the crap out of him so everyone knows not to f%ck with you ever again.

5. OK, so the kids've bought in and everyone at the school's given you their tacit support. Now you've got to get the parents on your side as well for job security. First, send them all a letter spelling out the expectations for your players. They probably won't read it, but at least it's all spelled out.

Schedule a pot luck dinner to meet them. Shake hands. Talk to them honestly, but diplomatically, about their son. Find at least 1 positive thing to say about each kid Don't make any promises, don't ever openly disagree with them on anything football related even when you're talking to a complete moron, but stress that you try to find a role where each kid can best contribute to the team and that you're proud to be coaching their son.

Now, you're always going to have to put up with parents who are upset that their kid's not getting as much playing time or isn't being used the way they think he should be. Everyone thinks their son is the next All American and nothing will pursuade them otherwise. Be a professional. Grin and bear it, no matter how ridiculous. You don't have much choice. Your only hope is to win over the majority of the parents and prove your methods work by winning. Winning is the ultimate silencer.

Where parents come in very handy is fundraising and organization. It is soooooooo important to get a touchdown club together and hold some sort of fundraising drive immediately to improve the facilities or equipment. This reinforces the psychology that this is a new environment the kids are in, the page has been turned, and things are improving. My HS team did that before my senior year. We went from 3-7 with 25 players on the roster the year before to having 50 the next season, where we went 5-5, lost 3 of our games by a combined 10 points, beat the #4 ranked team in our state on their home field, and made the playoffs for just the second time in school history. Believe me, every little bit of psychology helps!

Personally, I like the idea of rounding up all the coaches and as many players and parents as possible in the spring to help spruce up the facilities as a symbolic gesture. It's cheap labor and it instills a sense of ownership and pride. Keep it an upbeat bonding exercise. Joke with them, provide pizza and sodas, etc. Then they can look with pride at their tangible contribution to the team.

I've also seen some suggest holding a brief clinic for parents who don't know much about football. Again, it's good

6. To be truly successful over the longterm, you want to have a good feeder system. It's not absolutely necessary but it's a huge help. You want to get as many kids as possible at all ages out for football so your talent pool just keeps growing.

Visit the grade schools, middle schools, youth leagues, etc. Become the face of football in your town. Give them hand outs to take home (with contact info and important dates) on youth league and middle school football. Go to a few games when time permits and meet the kids. Keep tabs on the middle schoolers especially--go to their practice and help coach them for a day if you get the time, or talk to them in the locker room after a big win. All that stuff isn't very time consuming, and it can pay off big down the road.

Now, the toughest part about a feeder system is going to be getting the coaches at lower levels on the same page. A few programs have the luxury of naming all the coaches at every level all the way down to midget league and forcing them to run a simplified version of the varsity offense. If you have that power, great. If you're like most coaches though, this will also take some offseason politiking.

Opinions differ on how much to dictate to the feeder programs. Some want everything done exactly as the varsity in lock-step. Others let the coaches do whatever they want. I think a middle approach is best: get with these coaches and try to get them to use the same terminology and focus on fundamentals they way you want them taught. If they want to go further with it, great, but don't sweat it it they don't. Winning at those lower levels is important to keep kids pumped about football. Plays and schemes can always be taught.

A good way to help with the feeders is to hold a couple of brief clinics in the offseason. One for the youth coaches, one for the middle school coaches. Here you can go over your terminology and the bare bones fundamentals, as well as anything else you feel should be stressed from an organization standpoint. Many of the youth league guys will be thankful for the help.

Lastly, the key to a good feeder system is transitioning kids from middle school to high school, then from freshman ball to varsity. I like the idea of inviting the whole 8th grade to watch the final home game from the sidelines as your personal guests, and also encourage the entire frosh squad to join the varsity once their season is up (keep the freshman uniforms a little less flashy than the varsity, so the "big time" appeal is reinforced).

7. Well, now the program is running smoothly. The community is pumped, the kids are proud and busting their tails for you, you're visible in the community, and everyone is raving about what an energizing visionary you are (at least until you lose your first game). You only have one other important group to conquer: the media.

The best way to get them in your corner is to win. That's ultimately all they care about. It doesn't matter how much you've improved anything or how far you've come. If you're winning, you're good. If you're losing, you're bad. Not exactly a pleasant group to deal with. If you're in a football crazy town the local sports editor or blogger (who probably doesn't know any more about football than the average armchair QB) has a bully pulpit to run you down and plant ideas in peoples' heads, regardless of truth.

However, the media is also important because of the attention it draws to your program: kids like seeing their highlights on TV and names in the paper. It's a sign of prestige to get coverage. If you're a football player with your choice of schools, you'll want to be at the one where you'll get more attention. That's normal.

You've got to smart with the media. Be very nice and personable with reporters and sportswriters. Try to give them some clever/funny quotes that summarize the game. Mention things they've written that you read. They love that. The only difference between a genius who needs time to right the ship and a bum who should've been fired yesterday is whether the reporter likes you.

Also, try to make sure the games get broadcast on the radio and possibly even local TV, even if it's just a public access thing. Every bit of exposure helps, and these can sometimes be nice sources of extra funding.

Just be careful of what you say in an interview. My first high school coach would always mope in postgame interviews about how his team just didn't have the speed or talent to compete with the elite teams in our conference. Talk about a confidence killer! Never throw anyone under the bus. Ever!

Anyway, this has been a long, rambling post. I hope it helps, or at least gives you some ideas that come in handy.

Of course it is the coaches fault. If Dcohio wasn't such an idiot, he would have been starting my little johnny notalent, who is a 5'5", 150lb junior Stud Middle Linebacker, instead of wasting his talent on the bench. If it wasn't for idiots like him, Johnny would be first team all state and getting recruited instead of handing out water during timeouts!

That's all I'm saying. There have been a lot of posts on this thread about coaching and having success. And this thread is called WINNING WITH LESS. So if that's the topic of discussion and if we have the argument that coaching helps you win with less then somewhere in that league is a better team who was LOSING WITH MORE. So in that case you have to accept that coaching brought them down a bit. Either that or you have to blame it on rotten kids. Personally I'd rather have someone think I was a poor coach than to think my kids were rotten.