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Post by warrior53 on Dec 12, 2008 9:06:00 GMT -6
I am somewhat hijacking this thought from another thread, but I wanted to see what the rest of the country's football coaches thought about wrestling as a second sport. Many of the coaches in Texas believe it to be a bad fit and that kids should spend more time in the weightroom. What are you're thoughts?
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billyn
Sophomore Member
Posts: 231
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Post by billyn on Dec 12, 2008 9:12:10 GMT -6
Depends on the philosophy of the wrestling coach. If they are pulling tons of weight it isn't good, because your kids never get any mass on them. If he's a football guy, it can be a real benefit.
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Post by coachjd on Dec 12, 2008 9:18:07 GMT -6
Every wrestler at our school is a football player. My DC, DL and 7th grade coach all coach the varsity wrestling program. They do the best job of in-season lifting during the winter and spring. They do not allow the kids to drop a ton of weight. Our QB played at 175 and he is wrestling 171. The are in the weight room 2x per week, plus do a 20 min kettle bell workout that will kill most of our other kids on Wednesdays. I think the balance, leverage and hip flexibility are so much improved with wrestling.
The best defensive players and OL kids in our conference are wrestlers.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Dec 12, 2008 9:21:33 GMT -6
Personally, kids should be playing more than one sport and the physical demands of wrestling seem to make kids mentally tough. We don't have wrestling at our school but I see kids playing hockey, basketball and lacrosse as a good thing. Rugby is really growing in our area and it has really helped our tackling!
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Dec 12, 2008 9:31:48 GMT -6
I coached wrestling at a previous school... we do not have it here (maybe someday... I hope).
Weightlifting is great... but bars don't fight back... that's always kind of been my philosophy.
I think in any "other" sport, the benefits outweigh the negatives. Most of the negatives have to do with contrary program philosophy and not the sport itself.
Since we do not have wrestling here (very small school... not enough kids to warrant 2 winter sports), our guys play basketball. I'm fine with that because the basketball coaches encourage in season lifting (our DL coach is an asst. for BB, that helps a lot).
When I coached wrestling, I really encouraged our guys to go out. I was the head varsity football coach/freshman wrestling coach... the head wrestling coach was our freshman football coach... it was a great way for us to recruit for our own sport.
I have seen some bad situations (too much weight cut in wrestling, etc.) that has really hurt dual participation though. As long as program philosophies mesh... I would encourage it.
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Post by coachdbucs on Dec 12, 2008 10:00:59 GMT -6
To demonstrate some regional differences here, I was at a Glazier clinic about 2 years ago and was listening to a HS coach from Iowa or Illinois and he made the statement, "you need to get your football players from your wrestling program". At our school we do just the opposite, our wrestlers come from the football team and we make the rest run track. We got a good laugh and thought about how different each region is. If you really want to make a difference we need to start hiring our coaches from the "Madden Bowl" championships. haha
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Post by tog on Dec 12, 2008 10:04:47 GMT -6
we have quite a few that do powerlifting and wrestling
then they go run track or play baseball
no problem with it as long as they are still working on becoming better athletes and they are competing
then that isn't bad for football
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Post by superpower on Dec 12, 2008 10:18:18 GMT -6
Many of our best football players are wrestlers. It helps that our wrestling coach in on our football staff and he doesn't encourage big weight loss for the wrestlers.
I would prefer that all of our fb players were three sport athletes. They need to be competing.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Dec 12, 2008 10:40:09 GMT -6
I think it is totally dependent on your philosophy and your wrestling coaches' philosophies...
Sometimes it works out, other times it doesn't
I WANT kids to play other sports IF and ONLY IF they continue to do what they should be doing to increase their athleticism.
I usually advocate for other sports, but in my current situation I cannot full-heartedly tell a kid that track will make him better- our track practices/workouts are weak, the kids tend to not get faster or better, and only the ones with natural talent do well...
I GUARANTEE that working with me 3 days a week in my training room will make you faster & stronger!
At a previous school the wrestling coach was totally on board- and he would send an assistant down to the weight room with the team to train 2-3 days a week (dependant on the tournament schedule).
Both teams thrived from this- we finished in the top 5 in the state in wrestling every year that I was there, having multiple state champs, and our football team got as strong & explosive as ever.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Dec 12, 2008 10:47:27 GMT -6
I think it depends on each individual situation. At our school track is great if your a sprinter, the fat kids just stand around all practice and are not readily encouraged to lift. As a result, I do not encourage my beef to play track.
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Post by windigo on Dec 12, 2008 11:14:51 GMT -6
There was a time when wrestling and football didn't work out very well. Wrestlers wrecked their bodies to make weight but with the newer NFHS weight rules that era is largely gone but the stigma still lives on both in football and wrestling. Players cant pull weight like they use to as they have a set weight that they cannot wrestle below which is set by a preseason doctor evaluation and not an insane wrestling coach. A good wrestling coach will be big on weight lifting these days because the best way to be stronger in a weight class is to have more muscle than to just be wrestling 20lbs below your natural weight. If you want your 160lber to over power people its best to have strong 160lber and not just have someone cut down from 180.
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Post by coachdubyah on Dec 12, 2008 21:31:10 GMT -6
Coached it last year and I loved it. Don't give a flip what it does with the weight. I never asked a kid to make a drastic change. It makes your kids tougher. I coach at a D3 college and I love recruiting former wrestlers especially on Oline. It makes them better overall athletes. Rick Trickett at FSU (former WVU oline coach) really likes to recruit former wrestlers for his Oline. Heard him speak at a clinic and he supports it strongly.
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Post by touchdowng on Dec 12, 2008 21:45:15 GMT -6
If wrestling was so great, why don't colleges require their FB players to wrestle. If wrestling is so great, why don't NFL programs incorporate that in their off-season training?
With that said, kids in H.S. should be doing more than just FB. Wrestling seems to have some good carryover but we get great results with our off-season strength and conditioning because we make it tough and competitive. If we just showed up and went through the motions that would be one thing but we make our strength and conditioning tough.
If I compared our FB/Wrestling vs. FB/Lifters I see no big variance. Tough kids are tough kids. They benefit from both.
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Post by coachdubyah on Dec 12, 2008 23:18:11 GMT -6
If wrestling was so great, why don't colleges require their FB players to wrestle. If wrestling is so great, why don't NFL programs incorporate that in their off-season training? With that said, kids in H.S. should be doing more than just FB. Wrestling seems to have some good carryover but we get great results with our off-season strength and conditioning because we make it tough and competitive. If we just showed up and went through the motions that would be one thing but we make our strength and conditioning tough. If I compared our FB/Wrestling vs. FB/Lifters I see no big variance. Tough kids are tough kids. They benefit from both. Touche... HOWEVER...I was just saying that I would strongly recommend it for your lineman. Thinking more in High School terms here. The skinny guys have track and baseball; OL and DL could benefit from wrestling as there second sport. Yes, I know tough kids are tough kids but wrestling can separate the men from the boys. Not downing an off season program just speaking from experience. Also, I know that Florida State, SMU, Louisville, and possibly other schools utilize wrestling type training in there winter programs. Where do you think the FSU mat drills came from? Alot of that is related to wrestling. All of those schools listed do a form of what we call "Scramboli". Which is basically wrestling for a Towel.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2008 2:14:34 GMT -6
I think most guys could benefit from wrestling..what else are they going to do in the winter, when the only other sports are basketball and soccer (out here, at least).
wrestle to stay in shape, get tougher, keep working hard, and work on balance and leverage...i was a football player and wrestler, i think it helped me a lot. we even had a WR who came out for wrestling, and he packed on some muscle and turned into a mean SOB. wrestling in the winter, work out with the football team and spring ball in the spring (or some track guys, i guess), football in summer and fall.
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Post by jgordon1 on Dec 13, 2008 16:31:30 GMT -6
the experience that we've had, coming from relatively poor wrestling programs, it is a 50/50 proposition. we have had 4 really good players on our team wrestle. two of them would die for the rest of the team, two of them were the most selfish athletes I've ever been around. IMO, wrestling is a two edge sword: It can create great toughness and competetive spirit but in the end it is all about me. I agree with the others, i would want my kids to play a winter sport as long as they conditioned hard
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Post by chadp56 on Dec 13, 2008 18:03:54 GMT -6
At my school our wrestling team is one of our most successful sports, far more so than football. I think it helps except for the kids who are cutting too much weight. Even with the new rules you see this sometimes still goes on. I think they still have work to do to fix that problem. I'm going to get my kid wrestling atleast at the youth level to toughen him up (he is only 2 now). I'm sure he will play basketball too. Then he can decide what he likes the best when he gets older. The only sport that I get frustrated with is baseball. For some reason some of those kids are still resistant to lifting with the intensity and frequency you need, no matter how many times I put up articles on Albert Pujols. It is a great sport, I played it a lot, but I think I'll push my kid towards track (or lacross if it ever gets big in my area).
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Post by coachjd on Dec 13, 2008 18:11:32 GMT -6
chadp, I would agree with you on baseball. The kids we have that are out for baseball almost seam allergic to hard work. We had 3-4 baseball players quit and their friends who still play basically told us they don't want to lift and football is too much work.
I watched the conference champion in football last week wrestle at our place. They were very impressive on the mat and looked the part as well. I recognized most of their names from football season.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 13, 2008 19:16:34 GMT -6
If wrestling was so great, why don't colleges require their FB players to wrestle. If wrestling is so great, why don't NFL programs incorporate that in their off-season training? Actually, wrestling is a common component of a typical "mat drill" session that many college teams hold in the offseason. So many teams "do" require FB players to wrestle. I think the issue here, as I have often said is the intention of the athlete. He should wrestle because he would like to wrestle, and not as an additional training component for football.
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gac8666
Sophomore Member
"Living in obscurity" Denver Broncos Offensive Line
Posts: 215
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Post by gac8666 on Dec 14, 2008 0:41:47 GMT -6
For lineman it could not be better.
I was a 3 year starter for my highschool and also played D-1AA ball as a center. I was a 4 year starter on the varsity for wreslting, and a state placer. It helped me so much you would have no idea.
The conditioning obviously, the mental and physical demands of wrestling. The hands placements, hips and body control help you so much.
If your a WR would it help? Maybe. For a OL or DL... nothing is better.
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Post by champ93 on Dec 14, 2008 10:51:16 GMT -6
My former school was usually a strong wrestling school that also had a strong football tradition. It seemed the years where one was the middle of the pack, the other was also. My current school has been very weak in wrestling, and seems to be getting worse. I would love more of my football players to wrestle, but I have a hard time pushing it as the wrestling program is run by a number of yocals who never have their kids lift, don't push academics and lose all the time. The kids that love to wrestle come back after their season frustrated or with lots of bad habits.
If each program is on the same page, one will benefit the other. Otherwise, I wouldn't push my kids into wrestling.
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Post by coachbdud on Dec 14, 2008 16:11:36 GMT -6
i think as long as you arent killing yourself to make weight then it is great. The best tacklers i have seen have been wrestlers because they have so many reps of shooting and doing takedowns. They play with great leverage and are able to contort their bodies to make plays. Our HC is also the wrestling HC so he gets a lot of guys from football out for wrestling. These guys always come back to football the next season better than before and i think a large part of this is because of wrestling. I remember hearing a stat somewhere that like half of NFL players wrestled in HS... maybe that is exaggerated but im sure a lot did
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 14, 2008 16:33:48 GMT -6
Just to add, Wrestling, while not terribly popular here in Louisiana, is an absolutely WONDERFUL sport in that there is no place to hide. No excuses. No "I thought you called..." Very little "the reff screwed me". If you find yourself with your shoulders pinned to the mat, there isn't anyone you can pass the buck to.
I wish we had more schools wrestling here.
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Post by goldenbull70 on Dec 15, 2008 0:16:48 GMT -6
I talked my project a 6'4 285 pound 15 year old into going out for wrestling. I was hoping it would get that aggression going. I talked to the wrestling coach and he said some days he just goes out and destroys and other days he gets scared. Either way, he is getting some good conditiong, learning more about balance and staying low.
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