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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 29, 2008 23:19:40 GMT -6
We simply live in a day of What have You done for me Lately........ Again..this explains 1/2 of the situation, and I am completely ok with that half. It is the OTHER half, the hiring, that concerns me. That 1/2 is not explained by your quote, as Lane Kiffin has not really done much lately. What about Chris Peterson at Boise? He has at least accomplished something as a HC at the collegiate level. What about Bud Foster at Virginia Tech? Want some younger blood...What about some top assistants such as the aforementioned Charlie Strong, or Tyrone Nix (DC at Ole Miss) or Brent Venables at OU? I am just really a bit perturbed by how quickly the trigger was pulled. I am not saying that any of those guys would be better than Kiffin. I AM saying the process just seemed screwed up, professionally speaking.
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Post by utchuckd on Nov 30, 2008 0:26:01 GMT -6
Yes there was search firm used by UT. The AD was in charge of everything, but let's be real, the big boosters were prolly very much informed if not involved. There were multiple interviews from what I've heard. As for it being done quickly, they were on the hunt for 3 weeks. Is that not long enough? If they have an interview with the guy and he blows them away what's wrong with going ahead and making the hire?
I don't know if any of the other names on your list were interviewed or considered. I don't know that they weren't either. I don't think anybody will ever know except the AD and the firm he worked with.
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Post by cbrown18 on Nov 30, 2008 7:26:06 GMT -6
I share your same concern... but we have seen this happen time and time again at all levels. Who knows why teams/schools chose a particular coach... maybe he interviews exceptionally, maybe he has a great program plan, maybe his references are out of this world... who really knows other then a few select people.
My point... even when common sense + facts doesn't = expected outcome... especially when we are directly involved or effected... in this profession it happens all the time... I have learned to expect and accept it!
Shoot, Life isnt fair much less the hiring process we have all been involved with at some point in our careers... therefore, I: 1. am thankful to still have a job 2. keep coaching and preparing like this will be my last. 3. if I am looking for a new job prepare and interview the best that I can 4. leave the rest up to man above.
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Post by utchuckd on Nov 30, 2008 10:33:11 GMT -6
Word is Monte will be joining Lane at UT.
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moball
Junior Member
Posts: 254
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Post by moball on Nov 30, 2008 12:32:26 GMT -6
The game doesn't pass by coaches, the recruiting process does. Proof: there are plenty of innovative high school coaches that win, but there are also plenty that lose in state championship games to old men that have been running split back veer or straight t for 30 years. We all know that talent wins on the field, so for my money the best college coach is probably the best recruiter. UT administrators probably believe that Kiffin will be more likely to impress 17 year old high school kids than Fulmer. If UT had a team they believed could win a title next year or two years from now, Fulmer would still have a job.
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Post by dacoordinator on Dec 1, 2008 8:54:27 GMT -6
Winning isn't everything? Well, then why is a LIFETIME Volunteer (Fulmer was a player, asst, and HC) dismissed for not winning? I find it a very curious event, and I am looking to gain some insight that would prove useful. it all goes back to the what have you done for me lately theory..... Winning isnt everything... but when your team has really under achieved for the last 3-4 seasons and there are no signs of improvement something has to be changed.. essentially what has Fulmer done for the Volunteer program lately, you can argue that his teams fill the seats but at Tennessee almost anybody can do that... they have some of the greatest fans in the world.. I really dont know why Tennessee went with Kiffen though...to tell you the truth I would of hired Ryan Kelly from Cincy. but hey what do I know about it
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Post by theprez98 on Dec 1, 2008 11:28:29 GMT -6
I really dont know why Tennessee went with Kiffen though...to tell you the truth I would of hired Ryan Kelly from Cincy. but hey what do I know about it You mean...Brian Kelly...
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Post by airman on Dec 1, 2008 13:56:35 GMT -6
the reason brian kelly do not go any where is because of his contract. He is set for life if he stays at cinnci.
I do not think chris peterson is interesting is moving anywhere but bosie state.
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Post by Coach JR on Dec 1, 2008 17:11:07 GMT -6
Being from Tennessee and a UT fan I can tell you my perception of the matter. First Fulmer never appeared to be an active recruiter. Last year Saban was making rounds and headlines recruiting his butt off while Fulmer was sitting on his. Second the offense just kept sputtering year after year and there was no apparent attempt to fix other than change coordinators and scheme. Again, I think purposeful recruiting and better execution may have done more than cosmetic changes. Third there was a belief that Fulmer may not have discipline with all of the players in the last few years. Basically from my point of view Fulmer seemed lazy and disconnected from the program so it was time to go. As a coach, I am not really as interested in the dismissal of Fulmer, as I am the process by which he was apparently replaced. Was there a search committee? Interviewing process? What was the thought process behind replacing a 150 game winner/ NC coach (albeit the program hasn't performed as well lately) with someone with NO college HC experience, NO track record of success. Does any of that mean that Kiffin won't be successful? Absolutely not. But, as a member of this profession, the apparent lack of a real process in this matter combined with the actual hire (NO college HC experience, NO track record of success as a head coach) is a little concerning. I could see a quick hire if it was someone with a more substantial resume. The recruiting angle mentioned above makes some sense, but Eddie O was the real recruiting force at USC, and Ole Miss didn't benefit from an influx of West Coasters. I am not really sold on the idea that Kiffin will be able to drag kids 2,000 miles. Time will always tell. Coach, Do you really not know how SEC (and other major conferences) college coaches are hired and fired?
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Post by Coach JR on Dec 1, 2008 17:19:25 GMT -6
Being from Tennessee and a UT fan I can tell you my perception of the matter. First Fulmer never appeared to be an active recruiter. Last year Saban was making rounds and headlines recruiting his butt off while Fulmer was sitting on his. Second the offense just kept sputtering year after year and there was no apparent attempt to fix other than change coordinators and scheme. Again, I think purposeful recruiting and better execution may have done more than cosmetic changes. Third there was a belief that Fulmer may not have discipline with all of the players in the last few years. Basically from my point of view Fulmer seemed lazy and disconnected from the program so it was time to go. That right there says it in a nutshell from a fans point of view, and many really think they know because "they believe", "they percieve", "it appears". The crank up the internet boards and talk radio, and fan perception becomes reality! Then too, this school of thought that a coach is only good for about 10 years no matter what, and that change for the sake of change is good too.
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 1, 2008 17:22:36 GMT -6
As a coach, I am not really as interested in the dismissal of Fulmer, as I am the process by which he was apparently replaced. Was there a search committee? Interviewing process? What was the thought process behind replacing a 150 game winner/ NC coach (albeit the program hasn't performed as well lately) with someone with NO college HC experience, NO track record of success. Does any of that mean that Kiffin won't be successful? Absolutely not. But, as a member of this profession, the apparent lack of a real process in this matter combined with the actual hire (NO college HC experience, NO track record of success as a head coach) is a little concerning. I could see a quick hire if it was someone with a more substantial resume. The recruiting angle mentioned above makes some sense, but Eddie O was the real recruiting force at USC, and Ole Miss didn't benefit from an influx of West Coasters. I am not really sold on the idea that Kiffin will be able to drag kids 2,000 miles. Time will always tell. Coach, Do you really not know how SEC (and other major conferences) college coaches are hired and fired? It is incorrect to assume there is a standard practice for the hiring and firing of any college football coach. Been there, done that, have various T-shirts and such.
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Post by jm on Dec 1, 2008 20:38:42 GMT -6
Not from a fanboy perspective, but from a professional coaching perspective... what does it mean to us as professional coaches, both at the college and H.S. (because the attitudes always seep down to the H.S level to some degree) level that a coach with over a .700 winning percentage is fired because he hasn't produced lately, and replaced with a coach who has a career record of 5-15. Can we take anything from this? The Lesson: What Have You Done For Me Lately? And the more you are paid the more recently "lately" is.
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sin86
Sophomore Member
Posts: 111
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Post by sin86 on Dec 1, 2008 23:34:09 GMT -6
First of all I don't know if the Kiffin hire was a good one or not. Second High school coaches in my area are fired for a whole lot less than Fulmer was. Fulmer may have come a tad to comfortable with his job, I don't know. What I do know is that he could have taken steps beforehand to prevent the events that transpired this year. I never was a Fulmer fan because of how he came to be the head coach. That really shaded my perception of him during his tenure. Many people that knew him personally speak very highly of him. Matter of fact, one of the guy's daughters I coach with played ball against and with Fulmer's daughter. He always lets us know how much he thought of the guy. Sorry, but my first impression of him was made in 1992.
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Post by Coach JR on Dec 2, 2008 8:58:27 GMT -6
Coach, Do you really not know how SEC (and other major conferences) college coaches are hired and fired? It is incorrect to assume there is a standard practice for the hiring and firing of any college football coach. Been there, done that, have various T-shirts and such. In a sense, that is one of the points of the thread, and in the question I posed. There is no "business school" acceptable hiring and firing interview/evaluation process on either end, or at least that is the case at most places I'm familiar with. At many SEC schools, there is usually some influential alumni, or alumni group that drives the bus when hiring and firing coaches. At Auburn it's Bobby Lowder, and a few of the Board of Trustees. At Alabama its Paul Bryant Jr. In some cases there are still Athletic Directors in place with almost complete decison making power, like Frank Broyles was at Ark. So, it does differ in each place, but rarely is it ever "business like".
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Post by Coach JR on Dec 2, 2008 9:07:37 GMT -6
First of all I don't know if the Kiffin hire was a good one or not. Second High school coaches in my area are fired for a whole lot less than Fulmer was. Fulmer may have come a tad to comfortable with his job, I don't know. What I do know is that he could have taken steps beforehand to prevent the events that transpired this year. I never was a Fulmer fan because of how he came to be the head coach. That really shaded my perception of him during his tenure. Many people that knew him personally speak very highly of him. Matter of fact, one of the guy's daughters I coach with played ball against and with Fulmer's daughter. He always lets us know how much he thought of the guy. Sorry, but my first impression of him was made in 1992. That's fair. Lots of people that have been around the UT program a long time say that. I'm only vaguely familiar with what Fulmer did to Majors. I don't know the whole story or if what I know is even true. I had a buddy, a big Auburn fan that hates UT. He lived in K'ville for a while, and through some business got to know Fulmer a bit, and said good things about him personally as well. It's going to be interesting to see how Kiffen works out. I suspect his youth and energy will help him on the recruiting trail. Hope he's a people person and kind of a "schmoozer" because rich SEC alumni like access to the program and the coach.
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Post by pegleg on Dec 2, 2008 9:30:02 GMT -6
You can argue the why's and what's and how's all day, but it comes down to one thing for me.
Change is inevitable. Good, bad, or indifferent people get tried of the status quo and want change.
You either embrace it, or it catches up to you. Paterno has survied because he has hired young assistants and changed his schemes with the times. Fullmer not so much, still the same offense he won titles (SEC and National) 20-30 years ago. Paterno's teams look totally different today than they did back then, when they were winning titles.
My opinion, if you don't agree, read the quote in my sig.................
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Post by Coach JR on Dec 2, 2008 9:45:35 GMT -6
You can argue the why's and what's and how's all day, but it comes down to one thing for me. Change is inevitable. Good, bad, or indifferent people get tried of the status quo and want change. You either embrace it, or it catches up to you. Paterno has survied because he has hired young assistants and changed his schemes with the times. Fullmer not so much, still the same offense he won titles (SEC and National) 20-30 years ago. Paterno's teams look totally different today than they did back then, when they were winning titles. My opinion, if you don't agree, read the quote in my sig................. For me, and this seems in line with what you're saying...change for the sake of change I don't like. Change for the sake of adaptation is a neccessity. I like stability at the top...like you say about Joe Pa and his ability to adapt to the times. But, if the head guy can't adapt, then I guess you find a new one.
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sin86
Sophomore Member
Posts: 111
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Post by sin86 on Dec 2, 2008 19:10:01 GMT -6
First of all I don't know if the Kiffin hire was a good one or not. Second High school coaches in my area are fired for a whole lot less than Fulmer was. Fulmer may have come a tad to comfortable with his job, I don't know. What I do know is that he could have taken steps beforehand to prevent the events that transpired this year. I never was a Fulmer fan because of how he came to be the head coach. That really shaded my perception of him during his tenure. Many people that knew him personally speak very highly of him. Matter of fact, one of the guy's daughters I coach with played ball against and with Fulmer's daughter. He always lets us know how much he thought of the guy. Sorry, but my first impression of him was made in 1992. That's fair. Lots of people that have been around the UT program a long time say that. I'm only vaguely familiar with what Fulmer did to Majors. I don't know the whole story or if what I know is even true. I had a buddy, a big Auburn fan that hates UT. He lived in K'ville for a while, and through some business got to know Fulmer a bit, and said good things about him personally as well. It's going to be interesting to see how Kiffen works out. I suspect his youth and energy will help him on the recruiting trail. Hope he's a people person and kind of a "schmoozer" because rich SEC alumni like access to the program and the coach. To be fair Auburn if it had been anyone else this had happened to I would have probably cried foul. My personal prejudice in this matter overrides my common sense, which I am short on anways.
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Post by throwonfirstdown on Jan 7, 2009 11:23:36 GMT -6
Anybody still think Kiffin was a bad hire?? The package deal of Kiffin, Monte Kiffin, Ed Orgeron, and apparently Jim Chaney (who with Joe Tiller had an explosive offense at Purdont)...is awfully impressive IMO.
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Post by spreadattack on Jan 7, 2009 12:25:02 GMT -6
Jim Chaney is a good hire. We'll see about the rest.
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 7, 2009 15:08:52 GMT -6
I think he's been incredibly shrewd in his hiring so far. Bringing in his father gives NFL pedigree (Besides the whole Raiders episode) that he can point to and say "Do what he says and you will play on Sunday". Bringing in Orgeron gives him a recruiting machine that is also a damn good coach. Chaney is another proven recruiter, but can also bring in a lot of knowledge offensively. I think that he's surrounding himself with quality people that will only increase his own opportunities for success.
Just wondering how things are going to work out with Ol' Pops being 'underneath' him. Probably a few funny conversations will ensue.
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Post by tye2021 on Jan 7, 2009 17:03:59 GMT -6
Not from a fanboy perspective, but from a professional coaching perspective... what does it mean to us as professional coaches, both at the college and H.S. (because the attitudes always seep down to the H.S level to some degree) level that a coach with over a .700 winning percentage is fired because he hasn't produced lately, and replaced with a coach who has a career record of 5-15. Can we take anything from this? Sometimes its not about your record. Sometimes its about you and how well you interview. Maybe Kiffin wasn't suppose to have this job but he blew them away during his interview. The same can be said for Mike Tomlin in Pittsburg only 8 years of NFL expreience. Not expected to get hired but after the interview they knew they had their guy. Pete Carroll at USC! No one in that area like the hiring of Pete Carroll at the time. After his 2 poor showings in the NFL. He adjusted his coaching philosophy, presented it to USC and the rest is history. Who knows what happens behind those doors. I don't pretend to know anything about the hiring proccess. But I would venture to guess that sometimes its not about the coach, but the Man that coaches instead of a coach.
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