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Post by spreadbone on Nov 12, 2008 22:19:48 GMT -6
Ok most of you on here know we are having a crappy season (0-9) going into our last game, and I cannot seem to catch a break. We've come into a program that the last coach who was here was hear for 16 years and his record was 91-96 over that time. In 16 years he put the team in the playoffs 5 times, and only made it out of the first round twice. The guy sees that the talent pool is drying up, so he up and resigns at the end of last season. In comes me, to a program that over the last 3 seasons has average 13 kids in the weight room out of a potential 70. We have 7 kids on 30 man roster who are over 200 lbs, and only 2 kids on the entire team that can bench at or over 300 lbs. Needless to say, we are in a mess. Also, there has been no discipline whatsoever and it has cost the team mercefully in the past.
My staff and I came in and are team GPA is up from a 2.47 to a 2.81 in just 1 semester after instituting a mandatory study hall for those w/a GPA at or under 2.5. We have had 2 kids on the varsity and 2 on the JV suspended from school this year, down from the 5 on varsity and 11 on JV they had a year ago. We have had 0 off the field incidents down from 5 a year ago. Yet, we are 0-9 (BTW the guy before me also went 0-10, but it was in his 8th year) and now I have a school board member who wants to meet with me because of some "complaints" he has. Guess what the biggest one of these complaints is? "Coach you're 0-9 and your offense is awful and all you do is try and run that option play that isn't working". BTW look at my user name and that says it all, I'm a Navy triple option guy and we all know that offense does work. My question to you guys, have you ever had this done? Have you ever had a school board member call a meeting with you because of your record? The guy before me was bad at playing favorites and running kids off for no reason, I've had more compliments on how fair the program has been run than anything. I cannot beleive it, and the AD says I have to go to the meeting (in 2 weeks)! To me, he's over the line because he's not out here everyday and doesn't see what we are dealing with. I was just wondering what I should do, but I don't feel I'm going to sit there and just take it I can tell you that. Maybe I'm just too prideful. Any thoughts??
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Post by goldenbear76 on Nov 12, 2008 22:57:09 GMT -6
Coach...the thing is ..your 0-9...it might or might not be your fault. That doesn't really matter..when you deal with administrators/ADs/principles..they have no clue what a winning program looks like. Every coach in the good ol USA that's 0-9 is gettin S#&t from someone(parents, boosters, admins, owners, fans). My best advice is weather the storm and try to improve your team next season. Honestly, the grades thing is a non-starter because if you were 9-0 with a team GPA of 2.01...they'd be patting you on the back. Ultimately if you feel you have no backing by the school...then well...I might look at if this is the best place for you. Its impossible to win by yourself.
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Post by ajreaper on Nov 13, 2008 1:08:31 GMT -6
A school board member helps set district policy they do not directly supervise district employees period. Meeting with a school board member would strictly be a courtesy on your part and the fact your AD says you must go says he's a spineless SOB. Running a particular offense or defense is not part of district policies and procedures so I'd tell him there is nothing to discuss there fore no reason to meet- and if you are a member of your local teachers union get them involved because this board member is way out of bounds and your administration is failing you here.
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Post by coachorr on Nov 13, 2008 1:18:22 GMT -6
Tell him to get his a$$ back in the back and cook the burgers, cause you have to serve the customers.
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Post by coachorr on Nov 13, 2008 1:27:24 GMT -6
Honestly, I would go into the meeting with the idea that he is going to reveal to you the offense, that will cause you to win. Listen to him that is all you can do. DO NOT give an opinion unless one is asked. If he asks you "why", tell him the philosophy of the offense and be prepared to show him that although it looks like one play, it is really a myriad of adjustments and variations. (ie. inside and outside veer, midline, trap option, counter option, power option dive option, belly option, rocket toss etc). Then explain why you believe this gives your team the best chance to win (ie. because deception and outmanning a defense through option gives you a chance). Mention, it has a learning curve.
Go in there with the idea you are going to win a supporter. Have an open mind and check the ego at the door. If he is a jerk, so what. It's not like he can fire you all by himself.
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Post by bigm0073 on Nov 13, 2008 7:11:28 GMT -6
Coach,
I was at a program just like yours.... We had NO discipline and a team GPA of 1.7. My first job at a school with a winning tradition and HIGH expectations. The football team was a MESS!! I came in blew it up started 16 sophomores my first two years and proceeded to go 2-8 and 2-8 my first two years. The AD and Principal left me the hell alone and let me do my job. Over the first two years here is what we accomplished: 1. Team GPA over 2.6 2. over 30 players with a 3.0 3. Discipline problems were gone (So were the players) 4. We raised 40,000.00 in aggressive fundraising 5. Rigourous / intense and very, very competitive off-season training.
The results: Year Three - 7-3 - Playoff apprearance
Year Four The schools first playoff win in over 10 years.
Tell the AD and School board guy to go and {censored} themselves. You can leave and go somewhere else. Thos idiots don't desereve you!!
Believe me they NEED you more than you need them. That AD should be ASHAMED of himself for even trying that!!
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Post by bigm0073 on Nov 13, 2008 7:15:32 GMT -6
Oh and one final thing for these geniuses...
If anything the Navy triple option is a GREAT equalizer!! Look at the success of Air Force and Navy with 1/10 of the talent. Look at JOhnson at GA Tech...
What is wrong with the offense??? THey need to give you time so the program can grow. All of their "Shortsightness" is what got them into this mess to begin with. You are just cleaning up the mess that was passed on to you!!
Those guys are a$$ clowns and clueless!! I guess you can tell this hits a nerve!
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Post by coachwoodall on Nov 13, 2008 7:26:37 GMT -6
I would suggest selling the afore mentioned aspects of your offense, but I would spend a lot of time highlighting the off the field accomplishments your kids have shown. The main focus of a school district is raising academic achievement and maintaining discipline. As a school board member THAT is what he should be worried about.
Sell your vision. This person seems to be looking for results and that you do not have at this point (on the field), but you do have some positive highlights that is indicative of a successful PROGRAM.
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Post by Split50 on Nov 13, 2008 7:40:15 GMT -6
I guess I was different than you guys. The board hired me, not my offense/defense. I would never feel the need to justify to any board member what I do with either. Playing time is non-negotiable with parents/players. What I run is non-negotiable with administrators/board members. I woould walk into the meeting, tell him that, then ask what other questions he has.
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Post by bulldogoption on Nov 13, 2008 7:47:02 GMT -6
NO..........ITS NOT NORMAL!!!!!!!!!!!
School board members don't set meetings with school district employees. Their job is to vote yes or no, NOT set meetings and take care of brushfires....In fact, you might check into meeting laws as it might be a violation.
That school board member should relay all those complaints to the Supt. The Supt, HS principal and HS AD should deal with those complaints.
Its NOT normal.
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Post by bigm0073 on Nov 13, 2008 7:50:51 GMT -6
Well said Split 50!! That is EXACTLY how you should handle it.
That is the perfect way of handling this... This is a slippery slope and if you dignify these questions your time there will be miserable!
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Post by fatkicker on Nov 13, 2008 8:09:28 GMT -6
correct as stated above...
school board members are policy makers not enforcers....
he can't or "shouldn't" do anything to break district policy.......you school's policies should be available at your request......look up the law and stuff it in his face.....
now....if you get the same call from you princ. or supt. then maybe you should be concerned........
tell them......see what kinda support you get from you admin.....
hey these masters in administration courses are paying off!!!!!
any meeting that is had is out of the kindness of your heart.....
another option is to play politics.....let him have his meeting....blow sunshine up his @$$ for an hour and then do what you're gonna do anyway.....
good luck!!
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Post by jpdaley25 on Nov 13, 2008 9:43:06 GMT -6
Spreadbone, Are you in a small town? Does the board member have a son or relative that plays for you? Does the board member have a friend that has a son that plays for you? Is he requesting the meeting as a member of the school board or as a parent? It sounds to me like you are about to be leaned on. The board member's only power is in his vote on the board. I would send a message to the board member and tell the AD face to face that if the entire school board wants to have a meeting with me, then fine. I will be there. Otherwise, I'm not available. If that is unacceptable, then I would pack my bags.
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Post by spreadbone on Nov 13, 2008 9:44:04 GMT -6
The other problem is that he is a member of our booster club. To me that still shouldn't make a difference. I'm almost to the point where I'm going to tell them where to go and pi$$ on it, but I don't know. They hired me with no high school head coaching experience at all, over 2 guys who had at least 2 years under their belts and I feel the main reason why is that I was a hometown boy who they thought they could push around and get what they want. Unfortunatley for them that has not been the case as I have not changed one bit even after all the b!tching started over a month ago, and I think that really bothers them.
Anyhow, the people on this board are great, you tell it like it is and offer great suggestions. I'm going to talk to the AD next week and see what he thinks about the situation. He did tell me last night we need a plan on getting and keeping coaches and trying to build this think up to something we can be proud of. Anyhow, thanks a lot for the suggestions.
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Post by cjamerson on Nov 13, 2008 10:03:51 GMT -6
Everyone has their opinion about the football program. You're the one hired to put you opinion of what system works out on the field. In my district, board members have no direct handling of school employees. Board members do not go into an English class and instruct our teachers that their methods of teaching alliteration, metaphors, etc. are not up to their standards...so why would they feel the need to inform you of how to do their job. We have district policies in place to make sure this type of situation never comes into play. Inform him that the only meeting you two will be involved in is a meeting with the entire school board and/or administration.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Nov 13, 2008 10:10:46 GMT -6
No matter where you go, you are hired to WIN FOOTBALL GAMES and all of that other stuff really does little to impress this type of person. How they get on the school board when all they care about is winning games is beyond me. They probably figure they can find a winner who will do the same things you are doing academically etc.
Chin up and keep working, stick to your guns and run your offense coach. BTW, your team is much stronger than mine.
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Post by spreadbone on Nov 13, 2008 11:05:16 GMT -6
Chin up and keep working, stick to your guns and run your offense coach. BTW, your team is much stronger than mine. I doubt it!
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Post by btincup on Nov 13, 2008 14:17:31 GMT -6
I was going to write a big philosophical paragraph on coaching but its really pretty simple>
They love you when your "Winning" and they blame you when your "Losing" !
It can't possibly be their kids fault or the fact that they are at the beach all summer instead of the weight room.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2008 6:48:15 GMT -6
I was going to write a big philosophical paragraph on coaching but its really pretty simple> They love you when your "Winning" and they blame you when your "Losing" ! It can't possibly be their kids fault or the fact that they are at the beach all summer instead of the weight room. Wow, that's a spit-your-coffee-through-your-nose-comment right there!!!! Duece
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Post by gacoach on Nov 14, 2008 8:40:47 GMT -6
Has the meeting time been set? When I have someone who wants to meet with me outside of the program, I tell them I meet at 6am. I have workouts at 7, and class at 8:15. After school is my time.
You'd be surprised how many cancel.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 16, 2008 12:53:11 GMT -6
Has the meeting time been set? When I have someone who wants to meet with me outside of the program, I tell them I meet at 6am. I have workouts at 7, and class at 8:15. After school is my time. You'd be surprised how many cancel. That is pretty smart. Although, I think in this case, the powers that be would find a way to have you "make the time" be it a sub for a class or whatever.
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Tampa
Sophomore Member
Posts: 211
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Post by Tampa on Nov 16, 2008 17:28:10 GMT -6
Use school time to meet with the fella, have them pay for a sub. Go in with the intention that you about to make a new and very influential friend in the community. Think of some items ($$) that might help the program out and be ready to discuss them if ask "how he can help". Don't be defensive, be open but make no commitments. There's the old saying "to keep your friends close but your enemies even closer." Remember, down in the "muck", high school football is about all they have to hold onto with the economy the way it is. Good Luck and let us know how it turns out.
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Post by 19delta on Nov 16, 2008 18:06:36 GMT -6
There's the old saying " to keep your friends close but your enemies even closer." Best piece of advice so far in this thread!
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 16, 2008 18:31:26 GMT -6
There's the old saying " to keep your friends close but your enemies even closer." Best piece of advice so far in this thread! I can attest to that.
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sin86
Sophomore Member
Posts: 111
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Post by sin86 on Nov 16, 2008 22:52:28 GMT -6
What I would want to tell him is that "it's not that I don't know how to coach but the parents don't know how to conceive."
Seriously don't know much about your situation, but in my neck of the woods it doesn't take much to get blackballed making it very difficult to find a job within 50 miles. So be careful and think about what you do and say.
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Post by coachorr on Nov 17, 2008 1:44:20 GMT -6
Tampa has the right idea. Go into the meeting willing to make an alliance. All the other, "This is my shyt an this is what I do and get the heck out of my face". Is just mentality to create more enemies. Now, that does not mean that you cannot be firm, but first explain your philosophy.
George Washington was able to create a Continental Army, not because he was good at ordering people around nor that he was even the best strategist, but because he was able to understand what drove his men. He realized that they would do anything for him, as long as they knew the reason why. The point is, try to understand where people are coming from before you start walking all over them. Could be that this person just needs to see the vision and once he does, he may be your biggest supporter. If not, then you will know right where he stands (keep your enemies close) and it may allow you to dodge a bullet.
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Post by coachorr on Nov 17, 2008 1:48:23 GMT -6
In the end, they hired you, so "you" will be running your system. You can deliver this message, without burning down the town.
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Post by coachcb on Nov 17, 2008 8:07:03 GMT -6
Don't even waste your time trying to defend your system to them; you can't reason with irgorance.
Before I walk into that meeting, I would sit down with the administration, get some stuff in writing (or at least recorded), and make sure that they're going to sit in on the school board meeting as well. You have rights as an employee and I would do everything I could to make them understand that you're going to defend those rights.
Bring up all of the positive things that you have done with the program and do your best to put them back on their heels. Get in writing as well; you can never have enough recorded. If they really want to do what is best for the kids, they'll back off. If they're more concerned with what offense your running, I'd be prepared to take legal recourse.
Honestly, I think more teachers and coaches need to threaten with lawyers when it comes to this kind of crap. School boards and administrators need to realize that the game goes far beyond schemes.
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mce86
Junior Member
Posts: 281
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Post by mce86 on Nov 17, 2008 8:20:52 GMT -6
You have to stand your ground in what you are trying to accomplish. If you believe in your system and your program, then you also realize it is a rebuilding process that will not happen overnight. Be respectful, but emphasize all the things you are doing besides "calling plays" Emphasize increasing the numbers and increasing off-season conditioning.... Emphasize, its not just the x's and o's..its the johnny and joes.
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Post by dhooper on Nov 17, 2008 8:36:03 GMT -6
Coach I feel your pain been there done that. Do what you believe in and if they fire you then be it, at least it was done your way. Winning isn't every thing. Yes of course we all are there to win but there so much more in coaching young men. Coach I try not to stress over little things in life I put it in my faith. Having a good family that is behind you no matter what is great also. Its funny my wife would have to sit away from the fans so she didn't have to hear them and they never would say hi, but now that we are winning its amazing how that changes with admin. and fans. When the chips are down its you find out who your friends are. Coach good luck, and if it doesn't work out look me up. bigm0073 sounds just like my story.
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