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Post by 19delta on Nov 10, 2008 22:06:28 GMT -6
From newstrib.com/sports/todays-n-t-sports/A football coach at Rock Falls High School turned on teams in his own conference in back-to-back weeks.
Rock Falls football received repercussions Friday.
The North Central Illinois Conference held its regularly scheduled meeting of conference administrators Friday morning in Mendota. The meeting included discipline for a bylaw violation by a Rock Falls football coach.
The coach received a letter of reprimand, and Rock Falls football will have limits placed on taping games in 2009.Saw this on another board. Lena-Winslow High School did not exchange film with Mendota High School week 9, a game won by Lena 14-7. Lena apparently already had tape on Mendota courtesy of Rock Falls High School. Additionally, Rock Falls High School allegedly provided tapes of rival conference teams to out-of-conference teams in the 1st round of the playoffs. Streator High School, Spring Valley Hall High School, and possibly even more conference teams may be additional victims in what is being called "Tapegate". The NCIC (North Central Illinois Conference) has a rule that says conference teams will not provide out-of-conference teams with film on any conference member. The sanctions against Rock Falls so far include the other NCIC teams not having to provide Rock Falls with game tape next year. If Rock Falls wants video on the other NCIC teams, they will have to send their own filmer and the filmer will have to sit in the stands and will not be allowed in the pressbox. |
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Post by rideanddecide on Nov 11, 2008 7:35:47 GMT -6
OK, it's against the rules so therefore this is a bad thing.
But, if it weren't against the rules in this conference there would be very few ethical concerns about this.
I've coached in a conference that didn't have this rule for a time. I traded with anyone who wanted to trade. Why? You build relationships and you never know when someone is able to help you.
Now I coach in a conference that has the rule so we don't trade.
Besides, this is HS football. Some school have the resources to pay scouts or lots of coaches to send scouting, others don't. What's wrong with playing on a level playing field?
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Post by coachmathis on Nov 11, 2008 8:33:35 GMT -6
In the districts that I have coached in it has always been sort of like a gentlemans agreement. It may have actually been put into the district by-laws.
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Post by jgordon1 on Nov 11, 2008 11:07:37 GMT -6
The last in conference opponent we played, the coach would not give us his last game, he said his computer was messed up so we asked for the original... Nope, can't have it... unbelievable whipped their butt 48-10
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Post by wingtol on Nov 11, 2008 11:07:40 GMT -6
It always amazes me to see all the drama that goes along with tape exchanges some places. Here in PA where we are there is no rule against or rule for tape exchanges. You can go film who ever where ever you want. You can trade with who ever, we have an agreement in our region to trade the previous two games but it's not a state rule or district rule. We just do it since its a lot easier and we are in the smallest class where resources are very limited. It amazes me that there are still states that ban filming by scouts let alone rules for tape trades.
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Post by lucassean2 on Nov 11, 2008 13:38:28 GMT -6
I coach in Illinois and what they did is really not that big of a deal. The team that received the film could have just as easily sent their own person to film the game. There are numerous conferences that have this "rule", or as someone stated gentlemens agreement, but most schools will still give up film.
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Post by midlineqb on Nov 11, 2008 14:22:38 GMT -6
I coach in Illinois and what they did is really not that big of a deal. The team that received the film could have just as easily sent their own person to film the game. There are numerous conferences that have this "rule", or as someone stated gentlemens agreement, but most schools will still give up film. You mean in Illinois you can send your own person to film games of your upcoming opponents. I think that is terribly un-ethical. Now if you get permission from both teams to do so that is a different story. |
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Post by rideanddecide on Nov 11, 2008 14:47:22 GMT -6
I coach in Illinois and what they did is really not that big of a deal. The team that received the film could have just as easily sent their own person to film the game. There are numerous conferences that have this "rule", or as someone stated gentlemens agreement, but most schools will still give up film. You mean in Illinois you can send your own person to film games of your upcoming opponents. I think that is terribly un-ethical. Now if you get permission from both teams to do so that is a different story. Same way in Wisconsin. I bet you could ask any coach in the state and none of us would view this as unethical. It's what you do and it's expected. You know your opponents will be there filming you. No big deal. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2008 14:48:31 GMT -6
a couple teams in our league wont trade for some reason, i dont know if there are only official rules about it, but we were able to get film of them from other teams. for playoffs teams are required to trade 2 of their last 3 games i believe.
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Post by bulldogoption on Nov 11, 2008 15:05:12 GMT -6
There seems to be TWO issues here........
This coach giving away film of his conference coaches to playoff opponents.
The OTHER coaches in the league refusing to trade film with conference opponents and getting it on the side from this guy.
Both situations seem hokey to me.
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Post by Coach Klemme on Nov 11, 2008 15:43:37 GMT -6
Our conference uses that Game film solutions and we can get what ever tape we want of the opponent if its on the server. We cannot get other teams who use the service that are non conference unless we call GFS and tell them to let a trade go through.
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Post by brian94 on Nov 11, 2008 15:52:27 GMT -6
In NY you can only film in person, not trading is allowed. If teams make it to the playoffs then they can reach an agreement on how many games to trade.
We scout every week, our JV scouts every week and our 7/8th grade teams scout a couple times a year.
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Post by lilbuck1103 on Nov 11, 2008 17:20:14 GMT -6
I coach in a state where you can go film or scout anyone whenever you want. Or for example, with the playoffs going on right now, we film any and everybody that we could possibly play in future years. I hear people talk about unethical to send a scout and film without asking permission. I do not get why this would be unethical? I would like to hear the other side's opinion.
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Post by brophy on Nov 11, 2008 17:36:25 GMT -6
rules on game film have the best of intentions, but I have not heard any compelling argument FOR mandated control over what is permissible.
There would be no way to test this theory, but I would have to imagine that the more aggressive the 'film limitation/ regulation' the sorrier the overall quality of defenses you'll find.
When no one will do your work for you (provide film) you can appreciate and value film a little more (and also have more staff commitment to opponent film). Also, being at the mercy of someone else to do your work for you (opponent delivering film). I'd rather put in the 6 extra hours of work of trading and filming to get QUALITY film, rather than being at the mercy of Central high's film guy, who is little johnny's dad and misses a string of plays with bad angles and perspectives.
Would really be interested in a decent argument FOR film mandates.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 11, 2008 21:46:49 GMT -6
brophy..my "decent" argument FOR film mandates/regulations and such would be that not all schools are equal. For example, at ECA, the program is such that they probably could film 4 or 5 future opponents each week. I can't say the same for their opponents.
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Post by brophy on Nov 11, 2008 22:07:53 GMT -6
brophy..my "decent" argument FOR film mandates/regulations and such would be that not all schools are equal. For example, at ECA, the program is such that they probably could film 4 or 5 future opponents each week. I can't say the same for their opponents. yeah, I get the 'level the playing field' argument.....but how many times can you tape an opponent? If I play 8 games - how many different times can those 8 opportunities for film be taken advantage of? ECA or J Curtis want to tape every opponent? Go for it....I bet they will USE it, too. Ponchatoula High not want to commit to scouting? I bet they won't do much with the film they ARE given, anyway. Why make everyone equally handicapped with crappy film? It dilutes the quality of DEFENSE that could be played (through appropriate scouting, tendencies, and personnel evaluation)? "Free Market Film", yo. |
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Post by coachcb on Nov 12, 2008 8:15:53 GMT -6
I coached for a HC who did the very same thing; but was applauded for it.
The other teams in the conference were terrible about exhanging film; even going so far as to take our film and refuse to provide theirs.
So, half-way through the season, he the film he had of every game to everyone in the conference and to a bunch of schools in the next conference.
If the other teams in the conference are being shady about providing film, I would do the very same thing.
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Post by bucksweepdotcom on Nov 12, 2008 10:29:43 GMT -6
In NY you can only film in person, not trading is allowed. If teams make it to the playoffs then they can reach an agreement on how many games to trade. We scout every week, our JV scouts every week and our 7/8th grade teams scout a couple times a year. This is not true on Long Island... I think it might be a section rule for you. In suffolk county on LI it is up to each division/Conference. Some trade two tapes while others trade only one. Trading of tape goes on everyday. |
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Post by Coach JR on Nov 12, 2008 15:33:52 GMT -6
I'm a bit ignorant about this. I'm not sure I get why there's any "ethics" involved in obtaining game video any way you can get it? I can see it being unethcal to somehow tape your opponents practices, but games are played publically. Seems to me like any way you can obtain (other than stealing) game film would be ok. Isn't it usually the case that you trade the last 2 games? Well what if you're a spread passing team, and your upcoming opponent faced the wishbone, and wing t the last 2 weeks. What good will that film do you for offense?
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Post by groundchuck on Nov 12, 2008 18:30:30 GMT -6
In our conference we exchange films. There is also a gentlemen's agreement not to share those films outside the conference come playoff time.
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Post by bulldogoption on Nov 12, 2008 21:21:58 GMT -6
I'm a bit ignorant about this. I'm not sure I get why there's any "ethics" involved in obtaining game video any way you can get it? I can see it being unethcal to somehow tape your opponents practices, but games are played publically. Seems to me like any way you can obtain (other than stealing) game film would be ok. Isn't it usually the case that you trade the last 2 games? Well what if you're a spread passing team, and your upcoming opponent faced the wishbone, and wing t the last 2 weeks. What good will that film do you for offense? I don't think there's any ethics problems in getting tape any way you can either. The issue here seems to be Rock Falls and Lena pulling a fast one on a fellow conference opponent, Mendota. If teams normally exchange, then I would speculate Mendota was anticipating a trade as it had probably done with other schools and maybe even with Lena in previous years. I'm just speculating and trying to make sense of it as it could play out with me. To refuse to trade only after getting some tape on the side is what I see wrong with this. The expectation coming into the season may have been that trades would be the norm, don't bother sending scouts. In this case, Lena got the short end of the stick. My conference schools will not give away film of fellow conference teams to nonconference schools in the playoffs....but then our conference teams get along well, as we speak. If I'm a spread team and my next opponent just faced DW and Bone, I would exchange the prior two weeks games as that is how our conference does it. BUT, I would probably have gone and scouted one of their games vs. a spread team to make sure I'm covered, but I would still trade with them the two weeks prior, even if we just faced two 4-3 teams and they run a 4-3. There are lots of unknowns with this story and there seems to be a lot of different rules, expectations/ethics in different states. That is what makes this story difficult to discuss. |
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dabears54
Junior Member
Pressure Pursue & Punish
Posts: 324
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Post by dabears54 on Nov 13, 2008 17:41:52 GMT -6
Rock Falls...haven't watched them in 12 years but probably...Offense- Wing-T Defense- 4-4 Cover 3
Mendota....haven't watched them in 12 years but probably...Offense- Wing-T Defense 4-4 Cover 3
Lena...never heard of them but probably...Offense- Wing-T Defense 4-4 Cover 3
The N.C.I.C. is the Wing-T Mecca of high school football. Their teams throw the ball maybe 5 times a game. High School football games start at 7:30 and are over in time to watch 20/20.
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Post by khalfie on Nov 13, 2008 19:35:51 GMT -6
Rules are rules...
If you are breaking the rules... you are cheating...
If you are cheating, you are unethical...
This one's pretty open and shut.
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coacher
Sophomore Member
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Post by coacher on Nov 14, 2008 11:15:04 GMT -6
Are we coaching hsfb to win confernce championships or state championships?
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Post by lucassean2 on Nov 15, 2008 8:00:15 GMT -6
Depends on the program. For some teams, conference is a state title
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