On the topic of running it up

Why do people get so hung up on what the other coach does or doesn't do? Is it supposed to be an honor among thieves type of thing?

If a team comes out and beats me 50-0 and they are passing through the end of the game who really cares? It seems to me that most of the problems with "running up the score" are from the coaches and not the players.

I think its one of those things that you have to actually experience it to fully understand it.

Now dont get me wrong, I have no idea if you ever have or not.. but..

The object of this "game" is to win.. to WIN.. if the game is in hand.. why prolong it??

Why run x number of extra plays when you can just take your win and go home?

If you are going to break into my house and steal everything of value.. could you at least leave the dog??

I have been on both sides of this issue numerous times (I was once on the wrong side of an 83-0 score.), and my feelings about it continue to evolve. My current stance on this issue is probably not popular with some people, but I have been around long enough that I don't really worry about trying to please others anymore. Here is what I now believe:

My varsity football players work exceptionally hard in the off-season to prepare for our schedule. They put in incredible time and effort in practice all week preparing to be the best they can be individually and collectively. We push them hard and accept nothing short of their best effort every day. Their reward for doing what we demand is Friday night's game under the lights when everyone comes to watch them perform. Win or lose, we expect our players to play every snap of the game as if the score is 0-0. Sometimes our opponents are over-matched and we get ahead by 45+, which brings about a running clock in the second half. That already limits the amount of playing time that our varsity starters get. If we pull them for being better than the other team, then their playing time is cut even more. Why should our kids, who have invested much more time in the weightroom and who work so hard all week, be penalized for doing what we have asked of them?

We are blessed this year with a great group of tough, hard-working, football-loving guys who live for Friday night. I am not going to pull them before the end of the third quarter and limit their reward for all of the hard work they have invested. We play jv and freshmen games for the younger kids to get playing time and valuable experience. Our varsity guys only have 48 minutes of football game time each week, and I am not going to start cutting into their time when they have done everything that has been asked of them.

I have learned some valuable lessons from my experiences when my teams were on the wrong end of a blowout. First, realize that you are over-matched and do what you can to keep the clock running. Throwing three straight incompletions and stopping the clock doesn't help. Learn how to get it over with. Second, just keep coaching your kids. Quit worrying about the other team. What message does it send to your team when you are whining about the other team? Third, honestly evaluate why the opponent is superior to you. Are you providing the same kinds of opportunities for your kids to reach that level of excellence? If not, why not? Are your kids willing to do all that it takes? If not, maybe it is time to move on. Losing provides many opportunities to learn and improve if one is willing to give an honest and sincere evaluation of the situation. Fourth, don't expect the opposing coach to substitute if you are not willing to. Leaving your starters in so they can score against the opponent's jv and/or freshmen really doesn't help. If you expect the other coach to sub, you'd better wave the white flag and sub as well. (Please realize that I am not speaking to anyone in particular. These are lessons that I have learned over 19 years of coaching high school football.)

I know I have opened myself up to criticism, and that is fine. I would just ask everyone to consider my thoughts with an open mind and share your feedback. I certainly don't have all the answers and am continually looking for new ideas and perspectives.

I have no problems with starters staying in.. and I have no problems throwing passes.. but I do have problems with starters being in and throwing passes.

I dont hate you if you feel otherwise.. just my thoughts on it..

If you are up and the game is in hand.. work on the running game some.. or let your back up come in and work on his passing game..

But throwing the ball into the endzone with your starters in.. to me.. is bush league.. and I am not saying my thoughts are right.. but they are my thoughts.

I agree with superpower. That is pretty much what we feel too. We play a tough schedule and it is getting real close to playoff time. We are a passing team and how do we prepare our kids to play 4 quarters verses some really tough opponents when they get pulled in the 2nd or early 3rd quarter? When we get the couple of weak teams on our schedule, why is it our responsibility if the other team doesn't put in the work or prepare their kids better? We have caught flak from fans, coaches, etc... about some of the scores in the past, but our thoughts are to not get upset with us, you should be upset with your team and your coaches about the score.

I can understand what you're saying airraider about teams deviating from their normal offense, but as a spread team, running up the middle every single play would be that for us. We will work our back ups in as we can, but what about working that young quarterback with the starting OL and WRs? Is having him throw a fade rubbing it in? That is part of our philosophy; IE taking shots down the field.

I have had to tote a few butt whuppins as a coach before, even felt like the coach was rubbing it in, but I always saw that as a the measuring stick as what we needed to do in order to improve. Is it fair? NO. But life isn't fair.

Some of the best experiences I have seen as a coach is when those backups get in the game and see our starters really rooting for them to excel. I feel it is great when the stud RB gives a high five or a chest bump to the scout team RB who makes a great move and get his first (and only TD) of the season; especially after all the pounding we put on him during practices. Or the record setting QB get jacked because the freshman QB checked off and made a great throw. These kids could be selfish and say, "Man, he got my TD", which I HAVE seen before. The thing is, those guys wouldn't be getting that chance if the starters weren't in there putting the game away early. I don't see letting the subs get theirs as an ego thing, they work just as hard, if not harder, that the guys that get their names in the paper ever single week.

I may offend by saying this, but as a defensive coach, my job is to stop the other team's offense, not our own.

I have to comment on this one. We play TJ tonight. They are the defending AAA state champions in PA and we have the game film of this game as an exchange. TJ did exactly what their coach said, throwing short passes with his back-ups to get first downs. They could have scored 70 as they did the year before on them and had done to them previously in the past. The EF coach who made the butt-buddy comment has had problems with the TJ coach in the past and I'm sure it carried over. I spoke to one of the officials who did the game and he said it got real ugly at the end with some not too kind things being said to the TJ coaches from the EF sideline.

We have been playing TJ every year since 1994 and in my first year as head coach in 2006, they could have beaten us 148-0 instead of the 48-0 it ended up (I inherited an 0-10 team that had scored only 35 points the entire previous season). The TJ coach was a gentleman and was subbing liberally in the 2nd quarter. He runs a first class program that has been in our district championship (WPIAL) game the past 6 years in a row and has won 2 of the past 3 state titles. If he wants to run it up he can and there's not a lot anyone can do about it. From my experiences coaching against him as first an assistant and now a head coach, he does everything he can to keep from embarrassing other teams.

To make things better we play EF next week. I am interested in the take of both coaches and will enjoy my pre-game talks with them. And as someone else mentioned the next Confernce coaches meeting should be a doozy!

As to the butt-buddy comment, I spoke with the local sports editor who put the story in un-edited and he told me he didn't even know what it meant (he's been on the job for about 30 plus years, still has difficulty working with his computer instead of a typewriter)! He was shocked when I gave him my interpretation. So far it has been kept hush-hush around here, I wouldn't be surprised if lawyers have been contacted and the word "Libel" has been mentioned. Don't know for sure if that is the case. I do know that if I had said that my district would make sure that I would be looking for a new job very quickly.

If nothing else it gave my Media Ethics class some great fodder for discussion, and now that it has been mentioned here on Coach Huey, it will allow me to talk about it in class some more.

Thanks wingtol for posting it.

Wingtol,

From 1994 to 2000 TJ only beat us one time, and he was a gentleman in defeat just as he has been one in victory the past few years. He just has a great team this year and will be the favorite to win the WPIAL and the State Championships again. Believe me, I have seen them in person vs. Cleveland Glennville and on tape 5 times already this year. They have been toying with the WPIAL teams they have faced, doing basically what they want to and pretty much dictating to the other teams what they would allow them to do.

There has been a lot of bad blood between the two schools (TJ & EF) as they are next to each other and have been rivals for years. I'm sure that factored in heavily to the incident. Also to answer someone else's question about how old the EF coach was to even use the butt-buddy quote, he's old enough to know better, somewhere in his 50's and has been a head coach for many years at both AAA and AAAA high schools in Western PA.

IMO he did not try to run up the score or embarrass the other team, at least from what I saw on the game tape. Next year's game between the two should be very interesting!

Hopefully they make it to the west finals and so does Strong Vincent, they have been toying with teams around here so far. Last year TJ just steamrolled them in the west finals up here but SV's line is much better this year. Plus a few years ago when they played McLane in the west finals they weren't ready to play from what I hear, kids yawning at the coin toss not looking at the other team. Those McLane kids came back and told their coaches they were winning cause TJ wasn't ready. But last year they looked unstoppable so hopefully we get a TJ-SV west final.

that is why we schedule jv and frosh games. when they get up big we do not sub our varsity guys in do we? lol

I think it can also come down to a numbers game. We just over 50 kids in our program 9 - 12. So when we get up we are trying to get our starters out as quick as we can just to keep them safe. We don't have that may back ups on the varsity so the quicker we get them out the better off we are. Now if you have 50-60-70 kids 11-12th then it's different then you might not be as worried about having a quality backup.

I guess things are done differently in other parts of the country. We have a seperate freshman and JV team and only occassionally will we drop down a varsity player to the JV level or bring a freshman up to the JV for a game. And it's very rare for us to dress a JV player for a varsity game.

So when the games decided we have varsity team members to get into the game not kids who've already played a game or two during the week. I know of no schools with in our conference who are any different.

I totally agree with what Superpower has stated with one exception; the running up of the score, still throwing at the end of the game even with the subs in it is only hurting the players not the coaches. I've been on the losing side of this situation several times, it really hurt my players emotionally when this occurred. I know it is difficult to hold the score down sometimes due to the fact of numbers but you don't have to throw the ball. JMHO

Just some counter thoughts on this.

I would argue that the MAJORITY of the time (and 10 years ago, the VAST majority of the time) a blow out occured because the other team was bigger/stronger/faster and the points derived through long runs in which the back is often untouched. Usually this occurs at a lower enrollment classification school as well.

That said, couldn't one easily claim that throwing the ball is actually "calling off the dogs" because it does not involve the merciless pummeling of an out manned defensive front.

JT and his Patriots for example. Now they N E V E R run up the score (until the playoffs). I have seen JT take a 49-0 lead into the half at a JAMBOREE after running just 7 plays (Against a credible opponent) Seems to me, if his personal philosophy would be to play the starters 3 quarters, then passing the ball might be a bit more sporting.

I don't think this is always a hot-button issue, with no real "solution" other than to JUST COACH YOUR TEAM so to speak because there are so many variables.

You will find some coaches who sub when you call off the dogs, and some who don't. You will find some coaches who play base D when trying to get out of the low end of a blow up..and some who have kids attack gaps with running starts. There are teams that run 4-5 wide airraid style offenses, and say "we throw the ball..its our offense" There are other teams that will line up like that, and try to run inside zone while the defense is just teeing off on hapless 14 year old backup. There are a million more things as well.

I just think a coach needs to do what is best for his team. If throwing in the endzone with 40 seconds is best for his team..so be it. If it is keeping starters in the game late into the 4th, so be it.

If the game is out of hand I have often found it beneficial to "reset" the conditions and coach a particular phase of the game, using it as a situational practice opportunity. Sometimes, the desired conditions and situations don't lead to running dive.

Two weeks ago we beat a team 46-0. They had under twenty yards of total offense and we had like 500. If we played our starters throughout the game it would have been 150-0. Further we didn't throw the ball at all after the first quarter... Our JV's drove on them over and over and took knees and punted in order to prevent another score...

Even then the other team's kids were {censored} off about it. In fact six of them quit before Monday's practice. Kids complain about it a lot even when the coaches realize it could have been MUUUUCH worse.