dcoc
Freshmen Member
Posts: 52
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Post by dcoc on Oct 13, 2008 18:59:11 GMT -6
Situation: We are up 24 -20 with about a minute to go in the game ,we have the ball 1st down on our opponents 12 yd line. they have no time outs left. I am the OC and call QB trap and we score, final score 31-20. My HC confronts me a couple of days later expressing his displeasure with me for not taking a knee. He also explains that the opposing HC is furious with him because we scored. We had previously had two TD's called back and a 40 yd run down to the 2yd line called back. This game was the game of the week both teams were undefeated going in and we were playing them on the road. Many of the calls went against us that night in what appeared to be a home job by the officials. I felt that our kids deserved to punch it in the end zone at the end. I know that he's the HC and I respect his right to the final say, but i feel that the opposing HC is way out of line for being upset. We are a one back no huddle team, and I did keep it on the ground. It's not like i was winging it all over the place up 30 or 40. My HC feels that I mismanaged the clock. After our private discussion on this we agreed that we disagree. And I told him that in the future that If he communicated his wishes that i would do what he requested. After practice today he called a coaches meeting and proceeds to bring up "What happened on Friday night" and how he takes full responsibility for this, and how he's lost a friend in the opposing coach. What about our kids, didn't they deserve to score? After all they busted their butts in the game to. Would like anyones opinion on this, was I out of line not taking a knee? Was I disrespectful of the other coach? Any opinion?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2008 19:10:31 GMT -6
Umm, did he have money riding on the game ? And if that's the case he needs to get some new friends.
I don't get why when you are only up 4 points, would he worry about scoring, I'm sure if the ball was fumbled and the opposing team scooped it up and ran with it the other coach wouldt've had a problem.
It would've been a different story if you were blowing them out. maybe it was his boss or something, who knows.
In technical terms you may've voilated clock management rules, by scoring, but you certainly didn't do anything wrong. In my opinion you did what was needed to secure a victory.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 13, 2008 19:11:11 GMT -6
What comes around goes around. I would have taken a knee, but not for his sake, it is just what I would have done; however, I can certainly understand why you want to secure the victory.
Let me ask you this, "Did the other team still have their starters in?" If so, then in my mind he has not waved the white flag and the game is less than a TD away. If both teams had the seconds in, then I think the second string deserves a shot to win.
Seems like a non-issue to me, the opposing coach needs to grow a pair.
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Post by coachnorm on Oct 13, 2008 19:19:27 GMT -6
Taking a knee is less risky. I'm not sure I agree with what seems to be your main rationale which is "the kids deserve to score" . I personally think the kids deserve to win and that whatever best serves that purpose is what you should do.
Do I think the opposing coach has anything real to be upset about - no, but some coaches will invent any slight and some will use it to effectively motivate their teams in the future.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 13, 2008 19:24:04 GMT -6
I agree with coach norm here. I would have started taking a knee to increase my chances to WIN THE BALL GAME, not because of some fear of running up the score.
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Post by schultbear74 on Oct 13, 2008 19:25:45 GMT -6
The team we are playing next week was ahead of a bad team by 50 points by the 3rd quarter. They still had their ones in and they were still throwing the ball deep trying to pad their stats. I think the HC wants to run it up on them if he has the chance. not because he does that, but because he wants to make a statement. I don't know if he will do that or not, but if you don't win with class you can expect to take it up the class (if you leave out a couple letters) when you yourself are down.
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Post by k on Oct 13, 2008 19:28:06 GMT -6
We went into the 8th ranked team in the state's house and held their offense that was averaging 40+ a game to 14 points and drove into their red zone a half dozen times. Did I mention that max preps had us within 10 from the bottom in our state going into week 3?
So they're up 21 nothing (punt return for the TD for the other 7). We punt with like 30 seconds left. Instead of taking a knee knowing they won 21-0 they try to punch it in one last time, they're {censored} that they didn't go out and beat up on us 50-0 and want to prove a point. We made the point when they went four and out.
I'll have to return the favor to him one day. I was very {censored}.
On the other side we've blown out two teams by lopsided scores out of our four games. In both situations we played our second and third string guys for the entire second half and took knees at the end of the game.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 13, 2008 19:42:09 GMT -6
k
See, i have no problem with what they did. being on the sad end of many blowouts during my HS. career (one of the main reasons i went into coaching...) I HATED when teams took a knee if the game was out of reach. The essentially cheated me out of 3 or 4 plays a game. Multiply that times a boat load of losses...and I might have been "cheated" out of as much as 3/4ths of an entire game during my 4 year career.
I am NOT a fan of taking a knee for mercy. I AM in favor of taking a knee to preserve a win
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Post by ajreaper on Oct 13, 2008 20:33:18 GMT -6
I see nothing wrong with what you did but personally as soon as I know I can run the clock out I knee it. It's just the "safe" thing to do. Now if you needed to run that play and they happen to score well what the heck.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 13, 2008 20:53:06 GMT -6
Take a knee, secure the victory. You fumble and lose, you would really feel bad.
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Post by theprez98 on Oct 13, 2008 20:56:44 GMT -6
Take a knee, secure the victory. You fumble and lose, you would really feel bad. I agree, I would have taken a knee. In two of our victories this year, that's exactly what I instructed our QB to do. On Friday night, our opponent had 2nd down with approximately one minute in the game. We had no timeouts. Instead of taking a knee, they ran the ball, fumbled it, and we recovered. We were not able to win, but it almost turned out to be the most boneheaded coaching decision ever.
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Post by theprez98 on Oct 13, 2008 20:59:37 GMT -6
Here is what I believe is a similar situation. Just last week, our JV opponent tried an onside kick while up 3 TDs late in the 3rd quarter. Aggressive, or too much? Hard to say. I can say that I wouldn't have done the same thing in the same situation. I like to be aggressive, but I think that's too much.
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Post by Yash on Oct 13, 2008 21:21:16 GMT -6
Its your job to put points on the board, the other coaches job to keep them off. If it was up by 20, different story. You are just running the offense. Could you have taken a knee, sure, but the rules don't say you have to. Play the full 48 minutes.
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Post by lucassean2 on Oct 13, 2008 21:34:54 GMT -6
When you run plays at the end of the game players from the losing team are grabbing, ripping and twisting anything they can to get the ball. I would have taken a knee to assure that my players came out of the game healthy. You scoring at the end is not unethical, it's your job to call plays, it's their job to stop you, they didn't stop you so it is their problem. Congrats on the win.
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Post by hsrose on Oct 13, 2008 22:53:52 GMT -6
JV game 2 weeks ago. Just scored, missed the try for 2, score is 25-17 them with 0:47 seconds left in the game. We onside, they get it. Take a knee, game over, right? No, they run a lead play, ball never gets there and bounces into our DE who gets 10 yards. Our ball on their 40. Drop back, hit the 40-yd TD, miss the try for 2, lose 25-23.
When it's time, take the knee. Not out of mercy, but out of safe play, no injuries, get the game over (hopefully with the win), get off the field.
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Post by lsrood on Oct 14, 2008 8:50:29 GMT -6
No time outs left for the opposing team, a minute to go in the game, I have the QB kneel down and get out with a "W". If your QB had been stripped of the ball and the other team scooped and scored or recovered it and was able to drive the length of the field for a game winning drive, I as the HC would have a serious problem with your call. It worked out, but I would instruct my OC to have the QB take a knee, not to save feelings (I really don't care what the other coaches think) but to best save the victory. JMO.
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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 14, 2008 10:02:25 GMT -6
How about this. we are up by eight against our arch cross town rivals we have only beaten them once in the 10 years our school has been open... one minute left. we tell ref and other team we are taking a knee. one of their db's comes up and tryies to swat the ball from the center. Thank god we didn't have a major brawl. the ref did a good job and set the ball very late. we took a knee...
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 14, 2008 11:01:01 GMT -6
It can go either way. There is no wrong way to do it. A couple of years ago we were in a preseason conference jamboree. It so happens we get to play the top team for a half. We jump all over them and are up 21-0. We drive down the field as the half is running down, at the 3 yards line. We take a knee and their NG busts threw the LOS and rolls up our backup QBs ankle, out for 4 weeks. Just so happens that our starting QB broke his hand in the 1st quarter.
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Post by fatkicker on Oct 14, 2008 11:27:12 GMT -6
up 50 points maybe so.....but if this head coach gets offended by an 11 point loss then he needs to find a new profession.......
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Post by dubber on Oct 14, 2008 11:57:56 GMT -6
I also would have taken a knee, and "your kids deserving to score" is an ego thing my sentiments.
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Post by k on Oct 14, 2008 16:44:47 GMT -6
k See, i have no problem with what they did. being on the sad end of many blowouts during my HS. career (one of the main reasons i went into coaching...) I HATED when teams took a knee if the game was out of reach. The essentially cheated me out of 3 or 4 plays a game. Multiply that times a boat load of losses...and I might have been "cheated" out of as much as 3/4ths of an entire game during my 4 year career. I am NOT a fan of taking a knee for mercy. I AM in favor of taking a knee to preserve a win I was cheated out of an entire half for ten games a season for multiple seasons by having the other team suck... *shrugs* That said I would have laughed in that coaches face if one of his all state wideouts was injured trying to go up by 4 scores by throwing four straight four-verts with 30 seconds left.
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Post by k on Oct 14, 2008 16:49:09 GMT -6
We take a knee and their NG busts threw the LOS and rolls up our backup QBs ankle, out for 4 weeks. Just so happens that our starting QB broke his hand in the 1st quarter. Wow sounds like your center & guards just broke your backup QB's ankle by not blocking.
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Post by jraybern on Oct 14, 2008 17:56:11 GMT -6
As far as I'm concerned, if the game ends in an 11 point win, that can NEVER be running up the score (unless we're playing soccer here). Did you manage the clock poorly, I think it's been said, probably. Did you do anything wrong, definately not. We beat a terrible team this year by 50 and the last three TDs were scored by our 2nd team (keep in mind we are small school, only have 20 out in 8man). There wasn't a junior on the field and most of the kids that were on the field are not very good. I wouldn't call that running it up either. The question I would ask is, was the other team trying to score when they had the ball with a minute and a half left? If yes then whats the problem with you trying to score with a minute left?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2008 22:00:11 GMT -6
How about this. we are up by eight against our arch cross town rivals we have only beaten them once in the 10 years our school has been open... one minute left. we tell ref and other team we are taking a knee. one of their db's comes up and tryies to swat the ball from the center. Thank god we didn't have a major brawl. the ref did a good job and set the ball very late. we took a knee... Had an opposing coach tell his safety to hit our center from depth while taking a knee. We used the fake knee play but didn't score, we got down around their 5. Lined up to take another knee...he did it again.
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Post by raiderpirates on Oct 14, 2008 23:11:13 GMT -6
We're up 7-0 and I wanted the team to take a knee and end it. HC takes forever calling some complex bunch of fakes, etc. We fumble the handoff fake and fall on it losing several yards.
Next play we take a knee like I asked the team to do. They were too good and we had one speed player, I was not going to leave anything to chance. "Take a knee, respect the game and the other team." We lost to the best team the next week, they used shotgun snaps to end the game three times inside their own fifteen yard line including the final play with 4 sec left instead of punting to us. We tackled them in the backfield twice in their last four plays and were only trailing by two points. Of their last four carries three times we also got people on the ball with both hands trying to force a fumble, including our best player into their backfield.
Taking a knee- gap shoe to shoe, put two FB in at sniffer and put your FS at halfback ten yards behind the LOS. Back up from behind your players to down it, a couple of yards lost is no big deal, don't set it up to get your OL's legs rolled by downing the ball directly behind their knees.
As for your TD call, the QB is pretty important and subjecting him additional wear and tear is the issue at hand. That includes safely downing the ball.
If you OL really has its stuff together they can shift to three point like Tom Landry teams used to do. Do it on the final play just to emphasize how well the line played as a statement to end the game. That says as much or more than scoring again, when it is done right. It also makes the OL even more aware of their turf and how to approach controlling it.
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dcoc
Freshmen Member
Posts: 52
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Post by dcoc on Oct 15, 2008 9:38:14 GMT -6
Thanks for all the feed back guys. After reading your comments I realize that I probably let my ego and competitiveness get in the way. I should have taken a knee, it would have been the safest thing to do to win the game. In the future I will definitely take a knee. Thanks again for your comments
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