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Post by spreadattack on Oct 9, 2008 10:42:34 GMT -6
On Johnny Majors and Fulmer, the story I remember (and I apologize is I'm at all inaccurate) is that Majors got sick (cancer, I think?) and had to take some time off, and during that time Fulmer, then an assistant coach, lobbied hard that he should be given the head coaching job, that Majors couldn't handle it anymore, and in any event was too sick to return. Before Majors had a chance to return, the University fired Majors and replaced him with Fulmer. Majors of course returned to being a head coach elsewhere.
(For full disclosure, I will also admit that I am a big Johnny Majors fan. My grandfather was friends with him and I went to a number of Pitt games (the second time he was there) and Majors is just a really great guy. I do not personally know Phil Fulmer.)
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Post by tog on Oct 9, 2008 11:03:47 GMT -6
In a recent interview, Johnny Majors probably put it best when we said, "...while I was recovering from my heart surgery, s few people I won't name were operating on my back."
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cre44
Sophomore Member
Posts: 168
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Post by cre44 on Oct 9, 2008 11:13:40 GMT -6
That's terrible. I didn't know that. I knew a little about Majors as he recruited one of my teammates in high school.
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cre44
Sophomore Member
Posts: 168
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Post by cre44 on Oct 9, 2008 11:13:55 GMT -6
That's terrible. I didn't know that. I knew a little about Majors as he recruited one of my teammates in high school.
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Post by tye2021 on Oct 9, 2008 14:50:45 GMT -6
They just reported on ESPN that he was HAND PICKED by Tuberville.
I'm not a TF fan, I don't know his system at all other than what I've read from you guys. But this shouldn't be a suprise at all. Tuberville does this every year. Its also rediculous to fire the guy after making the statement that YOU ARE NOT running TF system, but the AUBURN SYSTEM. Why hire him or any other OC for that matter if you are going to run your system. I can't understand how he plans to have a successful offense when his players have to learn a new system every year!!
Its also obvious that he has his core group of assistant coaches. Why hire outside? Why not hire from within so that you KNOW you have an OC that is on the same page as you and the rest of the staff?
IMO, he will not have a job long now that Saban is at Alabama. Once he starts to lose to Saban and Bama, he wont stay long.
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Post by hemlock on Oct 9, 2008 15:04:30 GMT -6
Tye2021 makes a good point: why not hire from within? The problem is that Tubs has a nasty track record of crapping on his own people as well. Take the case of Noel Mazzone. Mazzone was his OC at Ole Miss and followed him in the same capacity to the Plains. Most coaches agree that Mazzone is a forward thinking, progressive offensive mind. When he was at Auburn he used to host "private" clinic in which guys would get together and skull on the board for a few days. Mazzone was essentially a one-back guy. Tubs fired him, despite the fact that their "production" then was better than what they have had since. He also appoint Hugh Nall and Steve Esminger as his co-coordinators for a year and that did not pan; however, they both stayed on staff after Borges became OC.
He may have handpicked TF, but I suspect, after talking to people from Alabama, that there was external pressure being applied. As one poster suggested from anecdotal evidence, it seems as if the last straw for Franklin was on Tuesday when he apparently took over practice and did it his way; by all accounts, it was one of the best practices they have had all year. However, it seems that showed up the assisstants, who all have long histories with Tubs.
This situation, albeit in a slightly different way, bears all the traces of the Arkansas trainwreck that Houston Nutt orchestrated with Gus Malzahn. That's when I began to believe Nutt is indeed a particularly oily individual. From what I have heard, Malzahn was undermined by coaches that were subordinate to him - that they referred to him as "high-school." I suspect that this good ol'boy system also exists at Auburn where you have an entrenched group of coaches, who while they may be very good at what they know, are first and foremost loyal to Tubs personally. As we have noted earlier, when he hired Franklin he should have allowed him to gut the entire offensive staff and bring in people from Valdosta State and Troy.
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Post by airman on Oct 9, 2008 15:12:00 GMT -6
I wonder if TF has a no compete clause in his contract? I wonder how man years he has on is contract as OC?
IF he does not have a no compete clause he coudl work any where. I am thinking he most likely does however.
still it is a successful payday for TF. He most likely will be getting a pay check from auburn for at least a year.
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Post by coachhortman on Oct 9, 2008 15:12:03 GMT -6
We run TF's system and our kids love it. We have a QB that has thrown for 26 tds with 2 ints for the year already only five games in. We have five games left in the season before the playoffs start. The system is easy to learn and you are able to do so much with it. It is well worth the $3000 if you have it. Our kids were sucessful in the system that we had but our offense coordinator came from Texas Tech so he knew a good bit about this already. Eager to see how it plays out the rest of the year throwing the football.
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Post by bleefb on Oct 10, 2008 14:37:03 GMT -6
This reminds me of a similar situation at Cal in the 70's when they brought in Mouse Davis from Portland State to put in the Run and Shoot. They were tearing it up offensively early in the season until the QB tore up a knee, then had problems. Roger Theder was the head coach and cut him loose mid-season and reinstalled his own offense from the year before the week they played some DII team and declared success. I think they lost every game after that one. It was obvious that Theder never bought in to the move and was waiting for an opportunity. Also, if you've ever met Mouse Davis or seen him speak, he has a very strong personality that probably clashed with the low-key Theder. Sounds like you had some of the same forces at work here.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 11, 2008 6:59:25 GMT -6
I wonder if TF has a no compete clause in his contract? I wonder how man years he has on is contract as OC? IF he does not have a no compete clause he coudl work any where. I am thinking he most likely does however. still it is a successful payday for TF. He most likely will be getting a pay check from auburn for at least a year. If AU terminated the contract, i am fairly certain any "no compete" clause would be void.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 11, 2008 7:29:42 GMT -6
They just reported on ESPN that he was HAND PICKED by Tuberville. Not sure how much experience you have had with the media, but just because ESPN reports something doesn't make it bang on accurate. I can completely understand Tuberville's point here. Since the hiring, TF was becoming the focal point, not the Auburn Tigers. TF, the master of marketing and self promotion....becoming the focal point of a perennial top 15 college football program...I could see why Tommy T was quick to quell that in the media. (Probably has something to do with Tommy's ego as well, I have yet to meet a BCS coach without an ego. The ego drives people to the top....) I find it humorous that many here are saying things like "now that Saban..." or "With Saban at Bama...." when it is well documented that Saban runs through assistants at an even faster rate than Tubberville.
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Post by coachorr on Oct 11, 2008 7:39:22 GMT -6
I find this interesting given the low productivity out of the Auburn offense in the past and similar such offenses... one which comes to mind is Virginia Tech. Yet other teams who have converted to a open passing attack, like many in the Big Twelve, have increased their offensive production. And, it would seem that in key games in the last few years, many teams who have won as underdogs, have done it with a shotgun spread attack. Specifically, App. State against Michigan last year.
I am not saying the Shotgun spread is the endall to offense, but it would seem to me this general transition to this type of offense has created more offense for many schools.
All that being said, it would seem to make sense for Auburn to create a wrinkle for their offense. It would also make sense to assume that as recruiting lent itself to the offense, they would become better.
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Post by tye2021 on Oct 11, 2008 11:48:22 GMT -6
They just reported on ESPN that he was HAND PICKED by Tuberville. True, thats why I said it was reported. Everyone seemed to be guessing about how it came about that TF was hired. I heard a report and I relayed that information. I agree that it is possible that he was trying to quite down some of the media hype surrounding Tony Franklin. There is a differnce between having success because of your ego and allowing your ego to get in the way of your success! While the overall program is respectable his offense has yet to flurish. IMO, it seems as though he catches heat about the offense and fires the OC as if to say it wasn't my fault it was the OC, problem solved. But the real problem is those kids aren't given an opportunity to be successful. Instead of focusing on the execution of their responsibilities they have to think about what those responsibility is year after year. Again, I'm not a fan of TF and the credit he gets for selling his system that was really created by someone else. But to each his own. However, IMO, on the outside looking in, it doesn't appear that he was given the opportunity the offense the way that it was designed and the way he was hired to run it! There is no doubt that Saban is a bit of an a--hole, but those kids have responded to him. So yes now that he is at Bama, after the success he has had at LSU, and the turnaround of the Bama program in such a short time(whether its his doing or not) means he will win out in the recruting race against Auburn. Which will translate to wins over Auburn, which in the state of Alabama is the end of a carreer for the losing coach between those two schools. JMHO Repectfully
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Post by coachcb on Oct 11, 2008 16:58:20 GMT -6
None of us truly know or understand the intricacies and behind-the-scene details that led to the Tony Franklin's firing. I have no negative opinions on Tony Franklin or the offense which is basically his name-stake.
Here's what I do know; Auburn's offense hasn't performed this year and Tony Franklin is the man who is responsible for making said offense perform. Now, he may not have had the easiest job in getting the offense to click, but it was still his job. If it comes down to Tommy Tuberville taking heat or canning Tony Franklin, we all know what's going to happen.
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Post by raiderpirates on Oct 12, 2008 6:27:52 GMT -6
I'm pretty certain the local HS coach runs a variance of his system. The whip route is the team's bread and butter. Split back goal line(something that looked like our own O last year), double wing,single wing T(both for the main running sets), spread gun combos.
Most trips action centers around mesh/choice or ysail.
A good bit more slot running. We go for stretches of running a lot of play action to running almost none and using more spread looks as emphasis for getting people open.
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Post by utchuckd on Oct 12, 2008 15:10:19 GMT -6
On Johnny Majors and Fulmer, the story I remember (and I apologize is I'm at all inaccurate) is that Majors got sick (cancer, I think?) and had to take some time off, and during that time Fulmer, then an assistant coach, lobbied hard that he should be given the head coaching job, that Majors couldn't handle it anymore, and in any event was too sick to return. Before Majors had a chance to return, the University fired Majors and replaced him with Fulmer. Majors of course returned to being a head coach elsewhere. (For full disclosure, I will also admit that I am a big Johnny Majors fan. My grandfather was friends with him and I went to a number of Pitt games (the second time he was there) and Majors is just a really great guy. I do not personally know Phil Fulmer.) In 1992 Johnny Majors had a heart attack (or at least heart problems) and went into the hospital in preseason. Fulmer took the reins as interim and proceeded to win the first 3 games, including wins over Georgia and Florida. He was allegedly lobbying behind the scenes that he was gone to Clemson if they didn't get rid of Johnny and hire him. He had the clout to pull this cause he was a hot shot OC at the time and had some leverage. Majors came back, probably too soon, but he felt he was forced to to keep his job, and after a couple of games back lost to Arkansas, Alabama, and South Carolina (Steve Tanneyhill, anyone?) in consecutive weeks, Alabama of course being THE rivalry of the day and Arky and SC were first year SEC members that year. Well pressure increased, and Johnny, again allegedly, being the no BS kinda guy he was, ruffled some feathers with the big wigs and eventually was canned in favor of Fulmer who was allegedly placing the proverbial knife in his boss's back. I say the allegedlys because I have no first hand knowledge, but there is a large faction that believes this is how it went down. Thankee.
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ci
Freshmen Member
Posts: 48
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Post by ci on Oct 12, 2008 18:39:40 GMT -6
It's the middle of the football season and I haven't had time to check this board for months. What I don't get is charging other coaches for your knowledge or experiences. I don't care if you're running the TFS or the A-11, in my opinion, you're no better than a used car salesman if you do this (my apologies to the afore mentioned profession). We educators and coaches are the last battalion of principles and ethics in our society.; we freely help and give to athletes and colleagues. While I know that people are free to give $ to have this "knowledge", I don't understand the position of actually charging others coaches when so many have helped me personally (out of friendship, pity or whatever.) On hindsight, I always appreciate when someone buys a beer.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 12, 2008 19:11:54 GMT -6
ci- So you work for free?
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Post by hemlock on Oct 13, 2008 6:25:00 GMT -6
I don't think TF would have been forced to market the system had he not been black-balled after the UK mess. Remember, because he refused to be smeared, he paid a terrible price that forced him to sustain himself via other means.
The "System," as we all know, is nothing all that original; however, how he packages it is incredible. It's akin to what Ray Kroc did for the McDonalds brothers. There is a certain amount of genius there.
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Post by brophy on Oct 13, 2008 8:32:51 GMT -6
1) tough break for Franklin, and you kind of wonder what would happen / what his worth would be had he declined Tubberville and remained at Troy for another record-setting offensive season? I think he had a great opportunity at Auburn and his hiring ignited some crazy enthusiasm prior to the season starting. The 2-QB rotation killed him early on and it really looked like Cody was being forced on him. I agree about the "doesn't look like 'his thumbprint' " comments with how Auburn played on the first 5 games.
2) I am puzzled at how Tubberville dismissed Franklin, but apparently, there is nothing wrong with the offense "not gonna change a thing".... What goes around comes around...
3) With regards to the TFS pricing - I agree with Hemlock. Although, there are two schools of thought. A) there are guys who will charge you a "finders fee" for consolidating their information, which benefits you/ them immediately B) there are other guys that will be willing to establish a peer relationship with you to share (and share alike) for the betterment of the sport. I can think of a few times when I learned a few small things off of stuff I've bought, but the majority of my coaching philosophy has been shaped and molded by men whom I've had personal relationships with (their personality and philosphy shaped mine). Case in point, how many coaches have been influenced by Sid Gilman.....how many coaches have been influenced by Prof Henry Hill?
4) There is no greater example of the fickleness of the fans and media, than this scenario. August 2008, it was all about "Franklin and his spread offense".....now, in October 2008, it I hear, "What were they thinking? The spread will never work in the SEC....they look ridiculous....all the hand waving and stupid stuff before the snap...that was just stupid!"
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Post by coachcb on Oct 13, 2008 10:49:26 GMT -6
My two cents on the price of the Tony Franklin System; this is just capitalism at work.
If people weren't willing to spend 3k on the system, then it wouldn't be as expensive as it is. The consumer has decided the price of the product by paying the money for it.
Although I don't know that I would be willing to pay that price for the system, those who have are happy with the product.
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Post by highball007 on Oct 13, 2008 22:11:32 GMT -6
We purchased it last year and had great success with it. We have a new head coach this year and he didn't want to run that offense. I truely believe that it would give us an advantage in our league.
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Post by Coach JR on Oct 24, 2008 14:50:25 GMT -6
Lowder isn't nearly as involved as some think anymore at Auburn. This was Tubs hire. After putting the pieces of the puzzle together, it appears that Tubs had gotten a little fat and happy, and lazy in recruiting, and thought this hire would be a good shot in the arm and easy quick fix for getting some skilled offensive talent, which Auburn has lacked. I think Kodi Burns was even recruited contemplating this move. Trouble is, Tubs really invisioned a WVU/Florida type option run spread, and not the Air Raid. And Franklin took the job anyway knowing this, and knowing Tubs wanted him to be a run first offense. Franklin never got to fully impliment his offense. And there was division over the QBs...among the staff and players because nobody was sure what they were really doing. Meanwhile Franklin is trying to contrive a running attack to please Tubs, while at the same time attempting to install and "show off" his offense to Tubs. The result was nothing got perfected because Franklin wasn't committed to the run game and really doesn't understand it as a base offense, and Tubs wasn't committed to a pass first philosophy. Word is that at many practices in order to get as many reps as possible in, they'd rep a play once, and move on to the next regardless of how it was executed. Finally, Franklin had a meltdown and decided he was taking over the offense, and goind to coach it, and if he had to, he'd coach every position, and every drill...he did just that the monday prior to being fired...he stepped on some toes of some "lifer assistants", and I think he did it knowing it would either get Tubs to come around and force the asst coaches to coach his system, or get him fired, and I think he was relieved to be fired if they weren't going to let him run his offense. I've interacted with him by email a bit, and he seems like a decent guy.
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