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Post by coachsky on Sept 9, 2008 11:31:59 GMT -6
We had a disturbing situation in our opener. We were playing very well, dominating the game on both sides of the ball. We were playing an inferior team. Not a poorly coached team, just not a lot of great skill players.
During the game our QB and Z were openly complaining about their stats. QB wanted to throw more and the Z wanted more touches. They were told to knock it off.
I coach on the defensive side so I wasn't fully aware of all the antics during the game. Apparently the QB kept signaling up to the booth to the OC to throw the ball. The Z was making comments in the Huddle and on the sidelines every time the play wasn't call to him. All the while we are kicking the crud out of a non league team that handed it to us two years ago.
These two kids spent a lot of time in off season camps and have hired "recruiting services" to help them get noticed at the next level. They both have personal goals related to their season statistics and what their recruiting guru's think they need to get noticed at the next level.
Monday was pretty cool. After practice the HS and OC set it straight. They called Strike One. They didn't mention the kids by name, but said 2 players were being selfish. (the kids knew who they were talking about) They said if it happens again they'll be pulled from the game and be benched for the next game, Strike Two. They said if it were to happen again, Strike 3, they would be dismissed from the team.
It was no nonsense, straight up, great talk. The problem is; I don't think the two kids get it. Their opinion of themselves, their parents and "handlers" is so high, they think they are untouchable. Our #2's for both of those position can play. The #2 OB is actually a better runner in out Spread and in a lot of ways is better suited for our offense. We also have a younger Z that can run the fly and catch.
So a couple of questions:
- How have you dealt with kids who seemed to be as focused as much on their recruiting as they are on the teams success?
- How do you get through to them? They are zombies, they have boughten into the hype so bad, they hardly realize how poorly they are conducting themselves. I'd hate to see them benched or worse, but it probably will happen. I just wish we could get them back in the fold before it hurts the team. We were originally happy that these guys were so committed to off season training, camps , and combines; now we are questioning the value and how it's impacted them mentally.
- Big irony is the two kids who are sure to play at the next level are showing exemplary character, even calling these other two out, even though they are close friends.
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Post by jgordon1 on Sept 9, 2008 11:58:09 GMT -6
can some of you guys send me some of your DI problems. my RG is literally 185. both my inside backers weigh less than 190. my two dt's are 5'10"
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Post by coachbiggers on Sept 9, 2008 12:25:44 GMT -6
I went through the same in our opener, and I explained to the kid that this is the ultimate team game. His response was "I scored the most touchdowns i'm the BEST BACK on the TEAM"! Well our 2nd game I benched him and the backup scored 2x the Z 2x and the QB threw 2 to our X. So after the game he looked at me and said I get the message coach!!! LOL! It's simple I will lose without you before I win with you and a negative selfish attitude!
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Post by groundchuck on Sept 9, 2008 12:33:57 GMT -6
I would make it known to the kids that college coaches will talk to you as the head coach. If asked you will tell the truth that at times they were no team players and were selfish.
Unless they are 5-star bluechippers alot of coaches will simply stay away after you have that conversation with them.
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Post by dubber on Sept 9, 2008 15:09:02 GMT -6
I would make it known to the kids that college coaches will talk to you as the head coach. If asked you will tell the truth that at times they were no team players and were selfish. Unless they are 5-star bluechippers alot of coaches will simply stay away after you have that conversation with them. That's a big card right there. Rush Propst was criticized for using that on MTV's Two-A-Days, but used in the right way, that puts those kids in their place. I also agree with dcohio.....kids leave, coaches stay |
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Post by midlineqb on Sept 9, 2008 16:40:33 GMT -6
You have to make an example of the "star" gazers. That will open their eyes and will also let the rest of the team that you are not going to tolerate the upitiness of the players.
The attitude that I've got to get my stats will break a team real quick. In some cases, especially on the offensive side of the ball, their teammates will stop blocking for them, etc.
The good to great players must understand that if you help the rest of the players succeed you will get your success and scholarships; they can't do it alone.
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Post by dubber on Sept 9, 2008 19:01:40 GMT -6
You should ride your studs more than anybody else.
They should be treated differently.......as in, you let them know their performance is never good enough........
I've only been coaching a few years, but this seems to be the best attitude to take with super stars and the kids who could be super stars.......I'll hold some kids by the hand, but those are usually the hardworking ones with low confidence.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 9, 2008 19:10:56 GMT -6
We had a disturbing situation in our opener. We were playing very well, dominating the game on both sides of the ball. We were playing an inferior team. Not a poorly coached team, just not a lot of great skill players. During the game our QB and Z were openly complaining about their stats. QB wanted to throw more and the Z wanted more touches. They were told to knock it off. I coach on the defensive side so I wasn't fully aware of all the antics during the game. Apparently the QB kept signaling up to the booth to the OC to throw the ball. The Z was making comments in the Huddle and on the sidelines every time the play wasn't call to him. All the while we are kicking the crud out of a non league team that handed it to us two years ago. These two kids spent a lot of time in off season camps and have hired "recruiting services" to help them get noticed at the next level. They both have personal goals related to their season statistics and what their recruiting guru's think they need to get noticed at the next level. Monday was pretty cool. After practice the HS and OC set it straight. They called Strike One. They didn't mention the kids by name, but said 2 players were being selfish. (the kids knew who they were talking about) They said if it happens again they'll be pulled from the game and be benched for the next game, Strike Two. They said if it were to happen again, Strike 3, they would be dismissed from the team. It was no nonsense, straight up, great talk. The problem is; I don't think the two kids get it. Their opinion of themselves, their parents and "handlers" is so high, they think they are untouchable. Our #2's for both of those position can play. The #2 OB is actually a better runner in out Spread and in a lot of ways is better suited for our offense. We also have a younger Z that can run the fly and catch. So a couple of questions: - How have you dealt with kids who seemed to be as focused as much on their recruiting as they are on the teams success? - How do you get through to them? They are zombies, they have boughten into the hype so bad, they hardly realize how poorly they are conducting themselves. I'd hate to see them benched or worse, but it probably will happen. I just wish we could get them back in the fold before it hurts the team. We were originally happy that these guys were so committed to off season training, camps , and combines; now we are questioning the value and how it's impacted them mentally. - Big irony is the two kids who are sure to play at the next level are showing exemplary character, even calling these other two out, even though they are close friends. If you have a good relationship with any of the recruiting coaches, you could always ask THEM to drop a hint or two. "Hey, I hear you are having a tough time buying into a team concept" coming from one of those guys can go a long way. Of course, this only works if you have a personal relationship with one of the coaches....and this is somewhat rare. Usually the recruiting coach would side with the kids...lol...they want to see the kid do things. Another option, is to explain to the kids that your job is NOT to get them scholarships and accentuate their individual abilities, it is to coach the TEAM. If they can't buy into that, then the other guys play. If they aren't playing, they are NOT going to get recruited. Period. Lastly, you might want to tell the kids that they are being sold a bill of goods if they think that #'s will result in ANYTHING. Stats are ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS as a recruiting tool. Tell your WR if he wants to catch a recruiters eye, block like a MEAN SOB. Tell your QB if he wants to catch a recruiters eye..carry out all fakes, and lead the team on and off the field. THOSE things gets schollies. Lastly, what grades are they? If they are sophomores...eh..ok. If they are juniors or Seniors and aren't on anyone's radar already...well that makes character even more pressing. They need to know this. They need to understand how the recruiting process works. They need to know that Jr's are being evaluated, and Sr's are being "recruited" at the top level schools. The lower level schools will place a premium on character. |
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Post by oguru on Sept 9, 2008 19:27:51 GMT -6
dubber:
You have to treat everyone the same. Like stated ealier it's his world they are visiting. Before I ever talk to the kid I am recruiting, or even ask the coach for film I talk to the coach and ask him about his attitude,and if he is a team player.
Perfect example, I was talking to a QB last night and he said he was 20-23 and should have been 23-23 but the receivers dropped three balls, which hurt his stats. We continued talking,and at the end he said, so coach when should I send you film. I said I will talk to your coach about that.
I called the coach today,and mentioned how he said he should have been 23-23 but the WR dropped three balls. His coach laughed and said one was a bad read, one he over threw the kid and the third got picked.
I did ask the coach for film, but did take note that he is more into his wn stats then the team.
and even wrote that down,and told our head coach that,and he said we should keep recruiting him,and see what he says the next couple weeks.
As if he continues the me,me,me attitude we will not recruit him.
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Post by dubber on Sept 9, 2008 21:05:05 GMT -6
dubber: You have to treat everyone the same. I thought that too when I first started coaching. HOWEVER, I have seen too many good players lose out on being great because they were treated the same as the struggling freshman QB. See where I am going with this? A stud 3 tech. needs to be ridden, challenged, and, yes, in some cases, ridiculed for his play. Usually the ridicule comes publicly in front of the team, and usually is limited to lack of effort/leadership/focus issues. I won't ridicule for missing an assignment, just lack of effort. But I will publicly challenge them. (Big difference between ridicule and challenge.......difference between: RIDICULE: "Ryan! That was god awful son! You think your God's gift to football? Get your ass in gear or off my practice field. That effort makes me sick!" CHALLENGE: "Sam, getting trapped like that is not going to get it done son. You cannot do that for us to be a good football team" Anyway, when you deal with the freshman QB with shaky confidence, you deal with him totally differently. A little less foot in ass, a little more arm around the shoulder. They need brought along, they need someone to believe in them. No, you cannot treat every kid the same way. The great ones KNOW THEIR PLAYERS. They know how to motivate each one, and to what each one will respond. That, IMHO, is one of the most overlooked parts of the whole "jimmies and Joes" over xs and os thing..........it is not just what your Jimmies and Joes CAN do, but what your Jimmies and Joes WILL do for the team. |
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Post by liberalhater on Sept 10, 2008 9:08:16 GMT -6
If you have a good relationship with any of the recruiting coaches, you could always ask THEM to drop a hint or two. "Hey, I hear you are having a tough time buying into a team concept" coming from one of those guys can go a long way. Of course, this only works if you have a personal relationship with one of the coaches....and this is somewhat rare. Usually the recruiting coach would side with the kids...lol...they want to see the kid do things.
Another option, is to explain to the kids that your job is NOT to get them scholarships and accentuate their individual abilities, it is to coach the TEAM. If they can't buy into that, then the other guys play. If they aren't playing, they are NOT going to get recruited. Period.
Lastly, you might want to tell the kids that they are being sold a bill of goods if they think that #'s will result in ANYTHING. Stats are ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS as a recruiting tool. Tell your WR if he wants to catch a recruiters eye, block like a MEAN SOB. Tell your QB if he wants to catch a recruiters eye..carry out all fakes, and lead the team on and off the field. THOSE things gets schollies.
"Lastly, what grades are they? If they are sophomores...eh..ok. If they are juniors or Seniors and aren't on anyone's radar already...well that makes character even more pressing. They need to know this. They need to understand how the recruiting process works. They need to know that Jr's are being evaluated, and Sr's are being "recruited" at the top level schools. The lower level schools will place a premium on character. "
I have met and talk to hundreds of "college recruiters" coming to look at our kids, and not one would side with the kid for any reason at all. I want to know which coaches you are talking to?
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Post by airman on Sept 10, 2008 12:53:31 GMT -6
I solved the stats issue a long time a go. we do not post stats and we only provide the scoring summary to the papers. no stats not even team stats are provided. I talked to the local paper about this and they were understanding. we do provide a end of season stats to the paper.
kids do not get to see stats period. kids do not get to talk to the press. only person who talks to the press is the head coach.
i tell the kids/parents on recruiting if they have not gotten a hand written letter by a coach, in particular the head coach it means nothing. colleges send prefabed printed recruiting letters all the time. I know a d 3 college who sends printed letters to every underclassman who makes all confrence teams.
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Post by coachsky on Sept 10, 2008 13:02:49 GMT -6
Update - Both players have talked to coaches for clarification so I think the message has been sent loud and clear.
One of the kids is a Junior who is drawing a lot of D-1 attention. The other kid is a Senior trying to catch a ride below D-1.
I think our HC has a good handle on how to talk to the kids and recruiters. The biggest issue is that these kids are listening to the wrong people. We have a local guy that runs great camps but the whole focus of his training and talks are about the next level. Less than one in ten at his camps/training will play on Saturday's. If he told them that he might get less attendance. He is truthful in a sense that he often says "if you are an athlete you can probably find some place to play in college."
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Post by ajreaper on Sept 10, 2008 13:07:59 GMT -6
I don't think you treat all players the same you treat them "fair". Do I treat the RB who has virtually no chance to get on the field unless it's a blow out the same as I treat my D1 back? How would that be "fair" to either? I think sometimes we get all caught up in that treat them the same line of thinking and we end up cheating kids.
I had an excellent jr. lineman ask about that during film one day and I replied that the player he was comparing himself to should aspire to perform as he does and that he should never, in any way, shape or form aspire to or accept performing as a 2nd or 3rd stringer- the more we are given and are capable of the greater the expectations. They all understood that.
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Post by airman on Sept 10, 2008 13:11:13 GMT -6
The great Vince Lombardi believed you treated every player the game. you treat them all like dogs. this way they all know they are on the same level and no dog wants to get swatted for getting out of line.
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Post by dubber on Sept 10, 2008 13:35:49 GMT -6
The great Vince Lombardi believed you treated every player the game. you treat them all like dogs. this way they all know they are on the same level and no dog wants to get swatted for getting out of line. Well........ Coach Lombardi DID in fact treat different players differently. IN the autobiography "Run to Win", he told the author how he treated Bart Starr, who was a little more sensitive, differently then he treated Ray Nitschke, who soaked up abuse and used it like fuel. Given, Coach Lombardi seemed like an ass-kicker to everyone, but he understood everyone needs different motivations...... |
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Post by airman on Sept 10, 2008 14:29:33 GMT -6
The great Vince Lombardi believed you treated every player the game. you treat them all like dogs. this way they all know they are on the same level and no dog wants to get swatted for getting out of line. Well........ Coach Lombardi DID in fact treat different players differently. IN the autobiography "Run to Win", he told the author how he treated Bart Starr, who was a little more sensitive, differently then he treated Ray Nitschke, who soaked up abuse and used it like fuel. Given, Coach Lombardi seemed like an ass-kicker to everyone, but he understood everyone needs different motivations...... i remember reading the Lombardi's favorite player was paul horning. he treated paul like a son but hated paul's playboy lifestyle. I knew the late max magee and max said Vince treated both of them a like dog if he knew paul and max were out drinking during the week he would run them to cure the handover. max also said the same thing about bart starr. it was not soo much he treated him differently he just talked to bart starr like he was another coach. bart was that kind of guy. he was smart and understood things from more of an academic process. still it is about knowing what buttons to push. |
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