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Post by derbyhobby on Sept 3, 2008 12:35:38 GMT -6
Anyone have good, safe recommendations on weight loss/control for the season? I have 3-4 kids that are between 2-3 pounds over during the week, and starve themselves 24-48 hours before a game. On top of my worrying about their health, this does not exactly make them at the top of their game come game day. Any advice as a coach to the parents and the kids?
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Post by superpower on Sept 3, 2008 12:59:11 GMT -6
What age group are these kids? I can't imagine asking football players to cut weight and then expecting them to be at their best come game time. Many of our high school athletes lose a couple of pounds during the week as a result of working hard at practice, but we wouldn't ask them to cut weight. If they are youth players, I can't imagine that it is healthy for them to be cutting weight. I know there are weight restrictions, but maybe they should be playing at the next level or at a different position (if there are restrictions for playing in the backfield or carrying the ball).
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Post by davecisar on Sept 3, 2008 13:38:00 GMT -6
Play them up to the next level
We dont even tell our parents or players what the running back weight limits or older lighter weights are so they do not starve growing boys IMHO>
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Post by justryn2 on Sept 3, 2008 13:59:41 GMT -6
I would say absolutely get them up to the next level. I really do not believe its healthy for young athletes to starve themselves.
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Post by eickst on Sept 3, 2008 22:24:27 GMT -6
What if there is no next level?
We have this problem as well with overweight kids. And for those who say it's unhealthy for these kids to lose weight you should see their bellies first before you say it's unhealthy to lose weight.
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Post by davecisar on Sept 4, 2008 6:16:05 GMT -6
MOst of the kids IVe seen starved areound here are "older lighter" kids. Kids athat are already skinny and small for their age. Heck the 2 we have you can see their ribs. The others starved here are running backs, there are lower running back weights, so these kids are smaller to begin with, not fat freddies. In Pop Warner ( we arent Pop Warner) there is next levels and most of the kids are being starved so they can be qualified as "older lighters", no fat freedies etc. I know of one league were one team even has a number of kids that didnt play the first couple of games because they are still not qualified to be older lighter and they add a pound a week and they are waiting for the weight rule to catch up to the kids weight rather than let him play up. All done to gain an advantage.
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Post by coachtabales on Sept 4, 2008 6:20:18 GMT -6
I think what Dave is saying that it's not a good idea to starve your kids, regardless of how big there bellies are. It's unhealthy for an adult to that, imagine what it does to a kid. Trying to play in the heat like we had this last weekend, after spending 2 days of fasting can cause some pretty nasty things to happen and no coach wants that. Fat or not, not eating something for 2 days before a game is a recipe for disaster (pun completely intended).
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Post by davecisar on Sept 4, 2008 7:11:51 GMT -6
Thats not what I said, I said perfectly proportioned or even skinny kids are starved in many leagues so they can qualify to play running back ( leagues with running back weights) or qualify as an older but lighter player ( 11 year old light kid gets to play with 9-10s) Personally I wouldnt starve any kid.
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Post by coveyboyz1 on Sept 4, 2008 7:33:00 GMT -6
Dave while I respect what you're saying, what do you tell a 99lbs at sign-up 7 yr. old that has lost all but 3lbs pounds to get to the certification weight. He can't move up he's only seven. I have been chastised by the parents for not running my kids enough I'm doing it your way I'm sure my tempo is not where it needs to be, but i'm trying. I may be in the minority , but I hate the Pop Warner system it's killing youth football. With childhood obesity at an all-time high how tell a kid who is attempting to make positive choice by becoming active and has been cleared by a physician your too fat to play football. I played in a striped league before it just makes more sense to me allow them to play in some capacity. I love football and believe it can be a life-changing experience. Football is rare as a team sport because the skills for playing the game are position specific and allow for different body-types to suceed. Joe is slow, but forget about running in a-gap because he'll blow up the play. Sorry so long.
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Post by coachtabales on Sept 4, 2008 10:46:51 GMT -6
I agree with you on the Pop Warner thing, so you are not in the minority on that. The weight restrictions leave it open for kids to get rejected, but also leaves it wide open for coaches to starve the kids who are 3-5 pounds over for the first few weeks. But as a coach myself, having seen it first hand, it's outragous what some parents will do just to keep their kids down a group, and increase their playing time. In some odd indirect way, some of the coaches are to blame for that. I like to give equal playing time across the board to all my players REGARDLESS OF TALENT LEVEL. But I won't even get into that whole discussion. The point is I wouldn't starve any kid regardless of circumstance, and definately would use that against Pop Warner to force them to make an exception so that a kid can play. This may be the reason why they change their weight restrictions every single year up or down by an average of 5 pounds each time.
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Post by dlsmith99320 on Sept 4, 2008 11:06:11 GMT -6
We have weight restrictions for our B squad, 10&11 year olds. 10 year olds over 140 have to play up to A squad with 12 and 13 yr olds, 115 lbs at 10 to run the ball, 11 yr olds 120 weigth limit or they have to play up to A squad,110 lbs to run the ball with a 5 lb variance allowed between Jamboree weigh in and playoff weigh ins. If I have a 10 yr old that is skilled but to heavy to run the ball he plays line and defense, If I have a skilled 11 yr old to heavy they play line and defense. What I try to preach to them is we are all important where ever they play so I have no issues with kids being to heavy and making them feel like they need to be a certain body type to be a ball runner or lineman it works well with thier fragile psyches.
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Post by derbyhobby on Sept 4, 2008 11:55:27 GMT -6
One of the kids is my own son. He is a solid with very little fat. Our team is made up of 7 and 8 y.o. and he is 8, so he is not trying to stay down to be a stud. He is trying to stay down with his friends and not move up to a leve that allows up to 25 pound heavier than himself. His only real diet, no more pop, fruit boxes and unhealthy snacks. He drinks water most of the time and the only "starving" he does is not to eat before the game. During the night he loses almost 3 pounds from just eating a light dinner the night before. Before anyone jumps on me, we play early morning games and he eats a peanut butter sandwich after weigh-in for protein, so he is not starving himself, but other kids have been and I am concerned for them. I am looking for help in dealing with the parents that will not move the kids up and dealing with the kids diets in a good coach way. Lets be honest, as much as we would like to believe that football or any kid sport is for the kids, it is the parents that are controlling it and not always in a positive way.
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Post by eickst on Sept 5, 2008 15:02:02 GMT -6
I don't think any kid should starve himself either but some of the parents think that making them eat healthy is starving them. Some parents think that WE as COACHES don't do enough in practice to help them lose the weight. They don't realize that they signed their kids up for YOUTH FOOTBALL and not JENNY CRAIG.
If they would keep their kids off of the soda, pizza, pretzels, potato chips, ice cream, etc. in the offseason then their kids wouldn't have to "starve" themselves with stuff like vegetables and fruits during the practice season.
I have some kids who will barely make the weight limit of 145 in our class, and they still have another 25 pounds to go to be what I consider healthy.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2008 20:23:04 GMT -6
Anyone have good, safe recommendations on weight loss/control for the season? I have 3-4 kids that are between 2-3 pounds over during the week, and starve themselves 24-48 hours before a game. On top of my worrying about their health, this does not exactly make them at the top of their game come game day. Any advice as a coach to the parents and the kids? Coach there's a difference between losing weight and cutting weight. Remember all they have to do is make that weight for 1 second, then you can carb and water them up on the sidelines, we jjust have them do the old trashbag under the clothes and run a little, to sweat it off, they will usually lose 2-3 pounds, that they put right back on when we give them some water, and some carbs on the sidelines. Another solution...soccer cleats, they're much lighter than regular football cleats.
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Shotgun1
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It is better to die trying than to quit...
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Post by Shotgun1 on Sept 5, 2008 21:26:58 GMT -6
Join, or start, an age only league! Our league has no weight limits and is organized by age. 5-6 flag, 7-8 year olds, 9-10 year olds, and 11-12 year olds. Nobody cuts weight and everyone loves it! The larger kids play and usually end up on the line and the smaller, faster, kids play skill positions.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 6, 2008 11:20:26 GMT -6
Anyone have good, safe recommendations on weight loss/control for the season? I have 3-4 kids that are between 2-3 pounds over during the week, and starve themselves 24-48 hours before a game. On top of my worrying about their health, this does not exactly make them at the top of their game come game day. Any advice as a coach to the parents and the kids? Coach there's a difference between losing weight and cutting weight. Remember all they have to do is make that weight for 1 second, then you can carb and water them up on the sidelines, we jjust have them do the old trashbag under the clothes and run a little, to sweat it off, they will usually lose 2-3 pounds, that they put right back on when we give them some water, and some carbs on the sidelines. Another solution...soccer cleats, they're much lighter than regular football cleats. Whoa...human physiology does not work that way coach. The sensible solutions presented here are best. If a kid avoids STUFFING himself..if he eats vegetables, complex carbohydrates, proteins and avoids wasted calories from candy, biggie fries, 2 dbl cheesburgers, 10 fried nuggets...he should be ok. If he does all of the above, and is too heavy to play so be it. Have him take gymnastics and play football when he gets a little older. The core strength, overall strength, balance and flexibility will probably benefit him more than playing in a pre puberty weighted league.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2008 6:30:02 GMT -6
Coach, human physiology does indeed work that way, that's how fighters, wrestlers cut weight before a fight/match etc.. We carry on our bodies anywhere from 2-5 pounds of water weight, at all times. I agree if he cant get down in weight with the above maybe he should move up, but weight can be safely cut
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2008 8:50:34 GMT -6
coachkell..IT DOES NOT. You are correct that the water weight can be sweated out. That is not in dispute. You are 100% incorrect that drinking some water and eating some carb bars on he sideline will replenish these losses and return the athlete to full functionality
What's more, is that doing this is absolutely asinine with regards to spirit/intent of the rules in place. Please note, I am not chastising you personally. I realize this happens at nearly every youth football association. I am simply saying that the practice as a whole is foolish, as demonstrated by the actions you mention. What possible sense could a rule make, if it can be skirted with sweating???
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2008 16:20:09 GMT -6
Hey I dont like the rule either, but they do it to prevent injureis (and lawsuits). Unfortunately, coach it is a rule, they have to make weight each week or they cannot play, now the weight increases 1 LB per week throughout the season.
Also coach I'm not saying that eating and drinking will restore the athlete to full functionality, but it does replenish enough for the athlete, to be able to play. I think you are reading WAY too far into it, this has been going on for years, and I have NEVER heard of anyone suffering any ill effects from it. We usually have them consume both complex and simple carbs, which also contains sugar and salt, we have them drink pedialyte. Iwill often let them skip warm ups so they can relax a little before the game.
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Post by davecisar on Sept 7, 2008 16:36:50 GMT -6
Coach Kell,
The price for insurance on limited weight leagues and unlimited weight leagues like the ones we play in are nearly identical. Ive bought them both. Ive not noticed any higher level of injury in the unlimited weight leagues. The most dangerous players are nearly always the medium to above average weight kids at the top of the age brackets that can really run, not fat Freddys.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2008 17:24:03 GMT -6
Hey I dont like the rule either, but they do it to prevent injureis (and lawsuits). Unfortunately, coach it is a rule, they have to make weight each week or they cannot play, now the weight increases 1 LB per week throughout the season. Also coach I'm not saying that eating and drinking will restore the athlete to full functionality, but it does replenish enough for the athlete, to be able to play. I think you are reading WAY too far into it, this has been going on for years, and I have NEVER heard of anyone suffering any ill effects from it. We usually have them consume both complex and simple carbs, which also contains sugar and salt, we have them drink pedialyte. Iwill often let them skip warm ups so they can relax a little before the game. Steroids went on for years. Keeping kids from drinking during practice "to get them in shape" was the accepted standard practice for years. Leading with the facemask was a surefire way to make a tackle for years. I know it goes on, I know it has been going on...doesn't make it intelligent or right.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2008 18:57:58 GMT -6
Hey I dont like the rule either, but they do it to prevent injureis (and lawsuits). Unfortunately, coach it is a rule, they have to make weight each week or they cannot play, now the weight increases 1 LB per week throughout the season. Also coach I'm not saying that eating and drinking will restore the athlete to full functionality, but it does replenish enough for the athlete, to be able to play. I think you are reading WAY too far into it, this has been going on for years, and I have NEVER heard of anyone suffering any ill effects from it. We usually have them consume both complex and simple carbs, which also contains sugar and salt, we have them drink pedialyte. Iwill often let them skip warm ups so they can relax a little before the game. Steroids went on for years. Keeping kids from drinking during practice "to get them in shape" was the accepted standard practice for years. Leading with the facemask was a surefire way to make a tackle for years. I know it goes on, I know it has been going on...doesn't make it intelligent or right. Yes coach, but there is documented proof of the damage caused by the above mentioned means,. With the exception of Corey Stringer, which was a heat related death, i've never heard of any harm coming to an athlete that cut water weight prior to an event. I used to work the fights in Atlantic City, as a paramedic, The fighters would work themselves into a heavy sweat just before a bout, and this was after the weigh in, so they already cut the weight needed to make the fight. Now that being said, I do agree, somewhat
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2008 18:58:58 GMT -6
Coach Kell, The price for insurance on limited weight leagues and unlimited weight leagues like the ones we play in are nearly identical. Ive bought them both. Ive not noticed any higher level of injury in the unlimited weight leagues. The most dangerous players are nearly always the medium to above average weight kids at the top of the age brackets that can really run, not fat Freddys. I didn't think it would.
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Post by angryman27909 on Sept 9, 2008 9:55:04 GMT -6
WOW, WOW, WOW, great post. i just wanted to add that all of you coaches are some great coaches that are passionate, concern professionals.
IMO this is another issue that bad parents or parenting bring to your communities that demands others in their profession (from schools, courts to sports) to sort their mess out. Remember this weight limit crap started from a parent that was too scared of her little kid getting hurt. Now the big kids can't play or must play at the next level. My problem with that is, the kid could run in to alot of failures at the next level and thus lowering his self esteem, quit football or sport entirely because he feels he's not good enough. he'll go home and eat more. But i guess parents like these don't believe that we as coaches are concern about developing the emotional and mental well being of players. Emotional and mental well being to them(the parents) is the endless time they spend with their children in line waiting on the family's happy meal. It's the parents who feed and set poor eating habits for these kids. Obesity, criminal behavior and mind altering drugs are America Epidemic among teens that results from poor parenting. But none of the professionals that work with kids/ teens can say, what and who we know the problems are. Not without worrying of being fired or having ourself or our organizations sued. We need a parenting face-lift in this country badly, for any hope of our kids making it. I think professional should come together and sue parenting for not listening to our advice.
Tonight i meet with our mayor task force team to talk about the problems of our youth and crime. I developed a program years ago that teaches communities how to reduce teen crime in their neighbors, it teaches parents how to improve discipline, helps schools get more participation for parents etc. is a great program that this city been avoid having. Not because it doesn't work but because they find I'm hard to deal with. I was going to go to the meeting and be diplomatic, but now i going as i am a hard nose in your face coach/former boxer/martial arts instructor that bring results where every i go and if they dont like what i have to say....SIT ON THE BENCH!
Maybe with coachhuey permission i'll write some fourm letters on the sujects for you guys. Completely orginial work that save live, improves discipline and make our schools and neighborhoods safer. If you want to read some articles just email me.
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Post by redlandspwt on Sept 9, 2008 12:46:48 GMT -6
We in our conference went to a single mass weigh in prior to the season. It is difficult to organize and regulate, but the kid has to only weigh in once
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Post by tbullscoach on Sept 9, 2008 20:40:50 GMT -6
I usually just lurk around here but this is a close subject for me. 2 years ago our 7th grade QB was the talk of our small community. Everyone was excited about the young option QB! His wrestling coach talked him into cutting a few pounds for a lower weight class. After starving all day and "trashbagging" he drank 2- 20 oz WATERS and ate 2 bananas and a cookie. While most people would be fine, this young man happend to be the 1 in a million to go into potasium shock from this. Two weeks in a coma later he is now and will forever be developmentaly delayed. I sure would not want to be the guy who found another 1 in a million. I still see tears in his parents eyes when I see them.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 9, 2008 20:50:01 GMT -6
Yes coach, but there is documented proof of the damage caused by the above mentioned means,. With the exception of Corey Stringer, which was a heat related death, i've never heard of any harm coming to an athlete that cut water weight prior to an event. See Immediately Above
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 9, 2008 22:11:51 GMT -6
Yes coach, but there is documented proof of the damage caused by the above mentioned means,. With the exception of Corey Stringer, which was a heat related death, i've never heard of any harm coming to an athlete that cut water weight prior to an event. See Immediately Above And just to clarify..I was simply trying to emphasize how a somewhat cavalier attitude can bring disastrous results. Not your attitude specifically coach, but the general attitude of "been doing it for years."
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CoachJ
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Post by CoachJ on Sept 10, 2008 8:03:16 GMT -6
I usually just lurk around here but this is a close subject for me. 2 years ago our 7th grade QB was the talk of our small community. Everyone was excited about the young option QB! His wrestling coach talked him into cutting a few pounds for a lower weight class. After starving all day and "trashbagging" he drank 2- 20 oz WATERS and ate 2 bananas and a cookie. While most people would be fine, this young man happend to be the 1 in a million to go into potasium shock from this. Two weeks in a coma later he is now and will forever be developmentaly delayed. I sure would not want to be the guy who found another 1 in a million. I still see tears in his parents eyes when I see them. This severly shocks me. In college they served us bananas, water, and bagels every morning before two-a-days. Many of us often ate multiple bananas and drank multiple waters. I wonder if the potassium shock had to do directly with his weight or lack of nutrition prior?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2008 10:26:14 GMT -6
I usually just lurk around here but this is a close subject for me. 2 years ago our 7th grade QB was the talk of our small community. Everyone was excited about the young option QB! His wrestling coach talked him into cutting a few pounds for a lower weight class. After starving all day and "trashbagging" he drank 2- 20 oz WATERS and ate 2 bananas and a cookie. While most people would be fine, this young man happend to be the 1 in a million to go into potasium shock from this. Two weeks in a coma later he is now and will forever be developmentaly delayed. I sure would not want to be the guy who found another 1 in a million. I still see tears in his parents eyes when I see them. This severly shocks me. In college they served us bananas, water, and bagels every morning before two-a-days. Many of us often ate multiple bananas and drank multiple waters. I wonder if the potassium shock had to do directly with his weight or lack of nutrition prior? Coach, unfortunately you cant base it on that. As you stated it was a one in a million chance he would have a potassium sensitivity. In all my years in medicine, I've never heard of a condition like that, though I'm sure it does exist. And again I state, this isn't docummented proof of anything caused, by cutting water weight, this was the result of an individuals sensitivity, to Potassium. This would've happened if he just decided to eat bannannas anyway.
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