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Post by wingtol on Jul 28, 2008 10:25:46 GMT -6
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 28, 2008 11:04:51 GMT -6
I know I would be wary of the situation based on two things :
1)Transfer in of Nick Montana, in what appears to be (from the outside looking in of course) nothing more than a rich daddy shopping his kid around.
2)The fact they talked to a "private coach" for the QB position
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Post by CVBears on Jul 28, 2008 11:28:19 GMT -6
Montana moved to SoCal because his dad has business interests in the area. Or maybe Joe wanted his son to be a two year starter rather than a one year starter only his senior year (which would have been the case if he stayed at DLS).
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 28, 2008 11:31:50 GMT -6
Or maybe Joe wanted his son to be a two year starter rather than a one year starter only his senior year (which would have been the case if he stayed at DLS). Isn't that a rich daddy shopping the kid around? That doesn't make it an inherently horrible thing, but it is the first indication of a "Nick first, team second" scenario. And I am not judging a dad for looking out for his kid, I am simply saying I know I would be wary of coaching in that scenario. |
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Post by CVBears on Jul 28, 2008 11:59:49 GMT -6
It absolutely is the parents shopping the kid around.
It happens at many places all around the country. Not much a coach can do about it, assuming that there was no recruiting going on (which, in this case I am NOT saying that there was. IMO, the "evidence" shows that there more than likely was no recruiting at all).
You're right though...a red flag would pop up in my mind too. This is something else makes coaching challenging and more than "just coaching". The coach has to sell every member of the team on the team concept. Hopefully, young Montana is a team player and just wanted an opportunity to play rather than a "me player." Right now I'm sure that's what Oaks' coach is trying to figure out.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 28, 2008 12:07:58 GMT -6
It absolutely is the parents shopping the kid around. It happens at many places all around the country. Not much a coach can do about it, assuming that there was no recruiting going on (which, in this case I am NOT saying that there was. IMO, the "evidence" shows that there more than likely was no recruiting at all). You're right though...a red flag would pop up in my mind too. This is something else makes coaching challenging and more than "just coaching". The coach has to sell every member of the team on the team concept. Hopefully, young Montana is a team player and just wanted an opportunity to play rather than a "me player." Right now I'm sure that's what Oaks' coach is trying to figure out. FIRST---DCOHIO...you and I need to get on the same staff. How do you feel about 95 degree days in 95% humidity, with the promise of jambalaya afterwards? Rookie--My red flag came from that statement from Joe that "Nick just needed a chance to play in an offense like this".... Uh oh. I had the pleasure of being around both of the Mannings during their H.S years. Well, semi pleasure, since I had to play against Peyton, but I coached there when Eli was playing. Archie was 100% pure gentleman, and never tried to get the coaches to do anything "special" to facilitate the boys, never armchaired (until after the fact, where some less than flattering things have come out in books..)That said, it was a multiple Pro-style offense...so I guess one will never know what would have happened if it had been splitback veer. |
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Post by airraider on Jul 28, 2008 12:33:08 GMT -6
It absolutely is the parents shopping the kid around. It happens at many places all around the country. Not much a coach can do about it, assuming that there was no recruiting going on (which, in this case I am NOT saying that there was. IMO, the "evidence" shows that there more than likely was no recruiting at all). You're right though...a red flag would pop up in my mind too. This is something else makes coaching challenging and more than "just coaching". The coach has to sell every member of the team on the team concept. Hopefully, young Montana is a team player and just wanted an opportunity to play rather than a "me player." Right now I'm sure that's what Oaks' coach is trying to figure out. FIRST---DCOHIO...you and I need to get on the same staff. How do you feel about 95 degree days in 95% humidity, with the promise of jambalaya afterwards? Rookie--My red flag came from that statement from Joe that "Nick just needed a chance to play in an offense like this".... Uh oh. I had the pleasure of being around both of the Mannings during their H.S years. Well, semi pleasure, since I had to play against Peyton, but I coached there when Eli was playing. Archie was 100% pure gentleman, and never tried to get the coaches to do anything "special" to facilitate the boys, never armchaired (until after the fact, where some less than flattering things have come out in books..)That said, it was a multiple Pro-style offense...so I guess one will never know what would have happened if it had been splitback veer. Not to mention that in our state.. that statement that Joe made in the paper would have made his kid ineligible. In Louisiana you cannot transfer for athletic purposes. When John David Booty left early for college after the whole Evangel/Johnny Booty thing went down.. here was Evangel without a QB... So in comes Geoff Nixon... who was originally from the area.. they MOVE from TEXAS to Shreveport.. and they rule the kid ineligible.. Now.. moving an hour away.. sure.. maybe.. but moving states.. the whole family.. just to play football?? The kicker.. the kid simply just stayed at Evangel and was a student.. missed his senior year of football. |
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Post by coachcb on Jul 28, 2008 13:25:03 GMT -6
I'd love to coach at that that school; they're a dominant program in that area.
Plus, you may get an opportunity to tell Will Smith to either pick up a clipboard or keep filming "Bad Boys 5". Be great to tell of the rich, famous, and crazy.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 28, 2008 13:37:49 GMT -6
Plus, you may get an opportunity to tell Will Smith to either pick up a clipboard or keep filming "Bad Boys 5". Be great to tell of the rich, famous, and crazy. I know (well, think) you are being facetious with this comment, BUT having had experience coaching at schools with $20,000+ tuitions that were populated with the "who's who" of the city, I can tell you it can be pretty frustrating. Remember, most of these parents are used to ALWAYS getting their way. It is hard enough dealing with "regular" parents who think they know everything. Dealing with parents who think they know everything, and generally always have everyone cater to them....ugh. Lastly, I have found that sometimes in these situations, the coaches are viewed as "employees"...simply people who are paid by the tuitions to occupy their son's time, and make their son happy. |
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Post by coachcb on Jul 28, 2008 13:45:19 GMT -6
Plus, you may get an opportunity to tell Will Smith to either pick up a clipboard or keep filming "Bad Boys 5". Be great to tell of the rich, famous, and crazy. I know (well, think) you are being facetious with this comment, BUT having had experience coaching at schools with $20,000+ tuitions that were populated with the "who's who" of the city, I can tell you it can be pretty frustrating. Remember, most of these parents are used to ALWAYS getting their way. It is hard enough dealing with "regular" parents who think they know everything. Dealing with parents who think they know everything, and generally always have everyone cater to them....ugh. Lastly, I have found that sometimes in these situations, the coaches are viewed as "employees"...simply people who are paid by the tuitions to occupy their son's time, and make their son happy. Yeah, I was being sarcastic. I'd hate coaching at one of those schools. An Idiot is an Idiot, until you give said Idiot money. |
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Post by wiaa3 on Jul 28, 2008 14:18:59 GMT -6
I would never want to coach at that school. You would probably be second guessed all of the time. One bad season and you are almost guarenteed fired. Just my opinion.
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dcoach84
Sophomore Member
If what you did yesterday seems big, you haven't done anything today. -Lou Holtz
Posts: 129
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Post by dcoach84 on Jul 28, 2008 15:00:49 GMT -6
I wouldn't touch it....you're asking for health problems.
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Post by Yash on Jul 28, 2008 17:07:21 GMT -6
If the tuition cost more than my car, count me out.
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 28, 2008 19:10:26 GMT -6
Tuition at my new school is $25,000... I'm still waiting for a Superstar's kid to walk through the door!  |
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Post by schultbear74 on Jul 29, 2008 7:23:13 GMT -6
I wish that I could afford to send my kid there. Do they give coaches kids scholarships?
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 29, 2008 7:57:59 GMT -6
dc--just to clarify, when I was coaching at the school I mentioned, I had a GREAT experience. However, I was insulated from all of the politics/pressures I mentioned. My only dealings were with the kids, and we had a great time. I still keep in touch with many of them.
I did see the frustrations on the Header/AD who had to interact with them. Unfortunately DC, the "all players are equal in my eyes" approach often ends up with a nice "we think we are taking the program in a different direction than the 10 wins each year you have averaged over the last decade".
Some of the things that you have reported on here, (and that I agree with, such as locking the weightroom door, holding kids accountable..etc. ) would basically get you called into the Headmasters office..and when it comes down to YOU, or the Kid/family... you come in a distant..DISTANT second.
Your quote "money doesn't make them different in my eyes" accurately describes one of the big issues, because "your eyes" in many cases don't really matter.
Like I said, i had a great experience, and for the most part, the parents/families were awesome. But it only takes a few each year to just continually grind. And it isn't a "pestering" or even "that mom is NUTS" type of grind. It is the grind of the fact that in THEIR eyes, you are not much different than the pool boy, or gardener. You are simply an employee of their family.
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Post by ajreaper on Jul 29, 2008 9:00:48 GMT -6
LOL, what HC isn't second guessed? Where is it the right minority of parents cannot get a decent coach fired? Be who and what you are, do your job in the best way you know how and don't spend a minute worrying about people and things beyond your control. Or you can play the part of the paranoid fool it's really an individual choice how we choose to approach the job.
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Post by wingtol on Jul 29, 2008 9:05:37 GMT -6
What does a coach make at a school with a 20,000+ tuition? Ours is around 7000 and I know we don't see much of that.
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Post by airraider on Jul 29, 2008 9:48:41 GMT -6
What does a coach make at a school with a 20,000+ tuition? Ours is around 7000 and I know we don't see much of that. My thoughts exactly.. I would love to coach at a private school.. but around here.. I couldnt afford it.. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 29, 2008 9:51:29 GMT -6
Air--20K+ schools I am familiar with here in the NOLA area...are probably on par with the higher paying parishes. Major difference in retirement though (public schools hold the advantage here by a wide margin)
The catholic/non elite private schools (Meaning 7k9k tuitions) are generally not really that close to the publics in salary.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 29, 2008 11:09:11 GMT -6
I hear you coachd...I'm not saying I would be immediately on everyone's christmas list, that's not my job, however, it's a 2 way street, at some level you have to be willing to let them lie in the bed they made and move on if that's the way it's going to be. I've got no problem doing that either. I wouldn't see it being an issue with me personally. We've had former NFL players on the team before, granted their father isn't a hall of famer, but still. I think it would be more difficult to have NFL or College coach's sons on the team. Marvin Lewis' son plays at your school, he wants to talk to you about your defense.... haha...seeing the Bengals play defense he probably wants some advice. ;D lol...I'm cracking myself up. Eh, I think having a coaches kid is easier than a players kid at a high level. I would think the "worst" would be having a Mid Major coaches kid...where the coach is making 60,000-75,000 a year or so. I think the upper level coaches would be more hands off and respectful of the profession. The major "red flag" I had about this story, is the comment from Joe M--stating something to the effect of Nick "needing" to get a chance to play in this type of offense, knowing that he just left one of the dominant football programs in the country (but that they run the split back veer). |
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 29, 2008 13:31:27 GMT -6
13 of my 28 years have been at private schools. Teaching salaries and coaching stipends vary WIDELY. The Christian school I was at for 7 years paid its teachers well but the stipends were the lowest! My new school (with the $25,000 tuition) pays better for teachers - my wife has a Master's and 20+ years and will get close to $60K for teaching 4 classes a day. The HC of our major sports are all near the top of our experience scale and will recieve stipends of $3900 to $4000 for the season. I'm a administrator (AD) with a PhD so mine is a bit higher than the norm. Our benefit package is pretty good but my advice for those of you considering private schools is make sure you research their health (enrollment figures and parent satisfaction) along with the administrative support factor. Is your headmaster going to back you up when a big money donor is griping about his kid's position? The answer to THAT question is probably the most important one.
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