|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Jul 20, 2008 17:53:43 GMT -6
Just got back from a college team camp. One of the teams had two Tony Franklin consultants to help . Wanted to get some thoughts about this. The consultants were very good. However they were correcting the qb and players on the field. The consultant might say that was a poor decision you should have.. he might speak to a reciever saying something like attack the LB's outside shoulder. What do you think about this? One side of me says hey anything to help my team. The other side says well what happens when it breaks down and the consultants aren't there to fix it. The kids might lose respect for the coach. Personally., i loved it as a defensive guy. The consultants were basically calling the palys. The first thing they did to me was run 4 verts. They saw we were a catch and carry team so we got our dose of mesh and shallow. Did some Cv 3 stuff. As soon as we adjusted we got mesh/back.(in and out with the unders. I really don't know what you guru's call it. It really challenged our thought process and forced us to adjust on the run. Thought my kids handled it well. Lost by one point (our qb throws a pick to end game)  |
|
MaineManiac
Junior Member
What you see depends on what you're looking for.
Posts: 311
|
Post by MaineManiac on Jul 20, 2008 18:06:58 GMT -6
Consultants wouldn't be coaching on my field - I agree completely that it will undermine the team in the long run. The kids will learn that their coach doesn't know what he's doing.
|
|
|
|
Post by midsfan on Jul 21, 2008 21:56:42 GMT -6
Honestly, I think it is that coach's job to learn what is being told to the players. Learn more about it, ask questions. Running the Franklin system or not, a lot of what is taught in that system is easily adaptable to any passing offense period. Remember, Franklin guys aren't teaching anything relatively new. It is still Football. Just because your team is there doesn't mean you can't learn yourself. I am coaching at a team clinic this week and 1 team's coaches are asking questions more than the kids. Great young staff with some great kids.
|
|
|
|
Post by rideanddecide on Jul 22, 2008 9:59:23 GMT -6
Consultants wouldn't be coaching on my field - I agree completely that it will undermine the team in the long run. The kids will learn that their coach doesn't know what he's doing. Kids will learn their coach doesn't know what he's doing if he doesn't know what he's doing--not because he has some extra coaches around for a few days. I would personally be very comfortable allowing someone I trusted coming in as a consultant to help out during our off season workouts or on an occasional day here and there in season. It breaks things up for the kids, gets kids extra coaching, and helps make the program better. |
|
|
|
Post by dubber on Jul 22, 2008 10:40:45 GMT -6
I think consultants should be coaching the coaches..........then the coaches coach their players..........
|
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jul 22, 2008 11:00:42 GMT -6
I am on the fence on this one. I really think it is great that the Franklin program gives such support. HOWEVER, I also could see some issues with "Coach" Tommy (the consultant) taking the lead coaching role while he was there.
I have seen issues somewhat similar with "camps". To take it to an extreme to make the point, do you want your kid going to a week long Oline /Dline camp on his own, and being told that "shoulder blocking" is wrong...if you are a shoulder blocking team?
I agree with dubber..I think the coaches should be coaching the coaches..HOWEVER, I don't think I would have a problem with the consultants were correcting the athlete on things that the coach has previously taught/corrected and didn't see on that particular rep.
Coaching up the QB's on the reads...eh.. from a COACHES point of view..hey get it right. BUT from a players point of view... I could see some issues brewing if things don't work smoothly.
|
|
|
|
Post by liberalhater on Jul 22, 2008 16:06:20 GMT -6
I forget where I got this and I am in no way taking credit for it.
All my life. I've had six honest serving men.
They taught me all I knew
Their names were What, Where, and When: How, Why, and Who.
You take the help where you can afford and get it. If you are afraid of outside coaches embarrasing your staff, You have the wrong staff. IMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jul 23, 2008 8:33:00 GMT -6
I forget where I got this and I am in no way taking credit for it. All my life. I've had six honest serving men. They taught me all I knew Their names were What, Where, and When: How, Why, and Who. You take the help where you can afford and get it. If you are afraid of outside coaches embarrasing your staff, You have the wrong staff. IMO. I would agree with you up to the RED portion. I don't think it is as black and white as you paint it. Again,lets say you are a shoulder blocking coach...and your kids go to an OLine/Dline camp. Your kid might run into a a guy who subverts you a little... Heck, I have seen kids influenced by darned recruiters. "We would love to see more pass rushing ability from you..." and all of a sudden the DT is just flying up field. And who are you..the lowly H.S coach, compared to the coach at UT who is recruiting him. I think the answer to this really depends on the situation. As I said, if the consultant is coaching up the kid on something he KNOWS the H.S. coach has preached, or something that the H.S didn't see that is one thing. If the Consultant is taking the lead on coaching the QB for a bad read...well, that could lead to some issues with players/parents down the road. |
|
|
|
Post by liberalhater on Jul 24, 2008 13:14:15 GMT -6
Coach,
in the school of coaching I come from? if am that insecure , I need to find another profession. In the end you should be able to man up and admit that the way you were teaching was wrong. If the coach is coaching something you dont believe in and you let him teach that is your problem too. That is a lack of organization on the coaching staffs part. You shouldnt let a coach even from a D-1 school out their without knowing what they are going teach. That should be covered WELL before you go out on the practice field.
|
|
|
|
Post by wonderingcoach on Jul 24, 2008 14:28:59 GMT -6
I have to disagree. First rule I learned as a substitute teacher, is its easy to step into a class and get kids to like you if your fun and tell them things they want to hear. Guest coaches or "consultants" should absolutly not coach on the field. As well other coaches on the same staff should do thier best to work together as a team and then present a united front to the team. Its not insecurity, its efficieny. Its not so much that the kids are going to doubt you because you don't know what your doing. The other guy may be suggesting stuff that isn't part of the overal plan. Kids don't get that. For example, I had a coach at a camp from the local college just going around telling kids how much success his kids have by doing this certain technique. The Coach was telling them something different than we were. It flat out confuesed the kids. They were trying, as kids do, to please both coaches. The problem is our 180lbs tackle isn't going to be as succesful blocking the way the college guy's 280lbs guy does. One thing the guy said was that cut blocking was just not something good players do.... I was not happy.
All that aside. COaching staffs must be coherent. Kids have enough going on in thier lives to get caught up in the turf is greener on the otherside of thefence kind of things.
My rule when I was a HC was, no one ever interupts or disagree's in public. Behind the doors we corrected each other. But on the field, staff's must support each other.
|
|
|
|
Post by lionhart on Jul 24, 2008 18:13:49 GMT -6
in our offense, the o-line is in a 2-pt stance all the time...no exceptions. the kids love it, are used to it, and its what we believe works best for US. took my line to a big man camp at a local college, first 3o minutes are spent teaching how to get into a "proper" 3 pt stance. is their way right and mine wrong? absolutely not. you just have to be able to teach your kids that there's more than one way to skin a cat. be secure with what we do, but always try to learn something from what others are doing as well. if you can teach thus,....... yiour kids will respect you and play for you.
|
|
|
|
Post by wonderingcoach on Jul 24, 2008 23:43:01 GMT -6
Two questions. If your kids are always in a 2-point. Are they large and what kind of System are you using?
|
|
|
|
Post by lionhart on Jul 25, 2008 7:36:28 GMT -6
my linemen are not big. our biggest is 6'2 255. we rely on our athleticism up front. we use wider splits and line up as far off the ball as possible. we are a spread gun team
|
|
