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Post by spreadbone on Jul 14, 2008 21:04:48 GMT -6
Check this out: www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/sports/epaper/2008/07/12/0712pahokee.htmlAbsolutely ridiculous! I can see a small skirmish, but to have a player re-escalate a brawl and another pick up a pipe!!!  You have got to be kidding me. These things are getting out of hand, as I've talked to some other hc's who told me about thier 7 on 7 experience. There is also a topic under secondary in the defensive section that seems to echo this sentiment. Anyhow, can't sleep and bored, just thought ya'll might want to know! |
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Post by pantherpride91 on Jul 14, 2008 21:16:20 GMT -6
That is just stupid.....I have been on both sides of a brawl as both a player and coach, both at 7 on 7.....You have very liberal rules and "officials" who have no clue what they are doing...Next thing you know you get one kid pushing another after he jammed him at the line or made a physical play on a ball and all hell break loose....
7 on 7 are more of a joke every year.....You get small schools wanting to prove they are big and bad against the big schools...especially state champs as in this case...or even teams that make long runs in the playoffs....you have little structure and kids trying to show off for college scouts that might be there.....it got to the point this year where our HC said we just arent going to any 7 on 7 and he got no argument from the staff
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Post by airraider on Jul 14, 2008 21:26:43 GMT -6
Check this out: www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/sports/epaper/2008/07/12/0712pahokee.htmlAbsolutely ridiculous! I can see a small skirmish, but to have a player re-escalate a brawl and another pick up a pipe!!! You have got to be kidding me. These things are getting out of hand, as I've talked to some other hc's who told me about thier 7 on 7 experience. There is also a topic under secondary in the defensive section that seems to echo this sentiment. Anyhow, can't sleep and bored, just thought ya'll might want to know! I echo the idea of how ridiculous this is.. but.. I do not feel its a "7 on 7" problem as much as it is a management problem. I coach some pretty rough kids.. kids that do not take aggression or taunting very well.. its just a product of their environment.. But.. as a coach I am VERY aware of the intensity level during a game.. and I do my best to make sure that if there is any talking going on.. that its from the other team only.. Its seems to me that this contest was allowed to get too heated for too long.. and then it just boiled over.. Being proactive in your approach to negate those types of responses back and forth by at least your team can go a long way in avoiding such things. |
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Post by cltblkhscoach on Jul 15, 2008 1:01:27 GMT -6
We almost had a brawl in one of our 7 on 7's last week - the other teams coaches did nothing to stop their kids from cursing and getting into the face of our kids while we were just beating them up and down the field. This is football and young guys are only going to take so much, so the benches cleared yet we stepped in and stopped our guys at midfield. Their head coach came over wanting to stop the game and told us to control our kids, but we said no, they need to learn from this and we continued to beat them up and down the field. Needless to say they instigated this from the start by leaving their helmets on while ours are still getting reconditioned and playing press coverage across the board leading with their helmets the whole time.
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Post by kcbazooka on Jul 15, 2008 5:35:28 GMT -6
1 team had helmets and the other didn't? I think if their was an injury there would be a line of lawyers looking for a lawsuit.
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Post by wiaa3 on Jul 15, 2008 7:06:33 GMT -6
When I was in high school we would travel throughout the U.S. and play 7-on-7. But nothing like this fight in South Florida ever happened. We would obviously get in little "fights" or whatever you want to call them, but nothing like Booker T. Washington and Pahokee!!!
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Post by groundchuck on Jul 15, 2008 7:19:22 GMT -6
Insane.
Remind me to keep my team away from those two schools...LOL.
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Post by airraider on Jul 15, 2008 10:14:09 GMT -6
DC, in most situation you dont have 4 seconds. Not only that? The whole idea of seven on seven is a joke. Nobody is going to hit the qb, no hands in his face, plenty of room to step and throw....ect. You get the idea. To each his own I guess.. but that is a pretty assanine statement in my mind. We get SOOOO much out of 7 on 7.. My QB has become so much more confident in himself over the past month and a half all because of 7 on 7. His throwing has become stronger.. his passes more accurate.. his reads more clear.. his overall ability to run this offense better. I believe 4 seconds is too long.. I prefer 3.8 for our opponents.. but I like our ball gone in under 3 seconds to maintain a realistic application to what we do in the season. but to say its worthless is not true.. I remember when I was in high school.. we did not even see our school until mid August.. unless you were in the weightroom.. which was not required.. I wish we had 7 on 7 back then.. we might have won a few more games just by being in better shape and more crisp in what we were trying to do. |
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billyn
Sophomore Member
Posts: 231
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Post by billyn on Jul 15, 2008 10:27:47 GMT -6
I love 7 on 7 because we're so far ahead in the kids knowing what to do offensively and defensively. Here is how we approach it. We get there about 10 minutes before the first game, and I tell the kids to loosen up on their own. We play cover 3 the entire time against every formation and every set. We rotate every kid we have there and play them equal time with the exception being the qbs where the starter gets more work. We never worry about the score. We try to never chew anyone out. We never send the back out in a route unless it is boot or a route where we will send him out in the game. We run nothing that we would not run on a Friday night. When someone runs four verticals then releases the back right down the middle of the field between the two lbs we laugh it off with the kids and tell them if they can get that off in a game and get that back that fast through the line then we're probably going to get the heck beat out of us anyway. We tell all our dbs and lbs to go for broke and try to intercept every ball. None of this counts we don't care how many times they score. We want to discover for ourselves our ability level and figure out when we can get to a ball and when we should go to make a tackle.
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Post by dubber on Jul 15, 2008 10:50:39 GMT -6
I actually was an offical at a 7-on-7 tourney this last weekend. I was a dick. Everyone behaved. 7-on-7 is a great tool......it can be abused (Man 2 coverage, HB's running 15 yard outs from depth), but it is useful, especially for young QB's. Just gotta nip it in the bud!  |
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Post by airraider on Jul 15, 2008 10:58:43 GMT -6
And I think people get too down on 2 man coverage.. we run it.. not every down.. but we do run it some.. I have to stay on my DC about Cov 7 (our 2 man) being more of a 3rd and long defense or a 2 minute defense..
Sure it only leaves us with 4 in the box if they send out 5.. but we play a 3 man front.. so we have a backer there to spy the QB.. sure they can block him with their 5 on our 4.. but.. on 3rd and long.. and in 2 minute O.. we want the QB keeping the ball in his hands..
Now.. you do have some teams who are a cov 3 team.. but get into a 2 man look during 7 on 7..
I dont think anything is WRONG.. as long as it is what you do on Friday nights..
Had a guy tell me a few weeks ago.. "coach, why dont you run your real offense instead of 5 wide everytime in 7 on 7?" I just smiled and said.. its hard to pass out of the doublewing..
Its an inside joke that he had no chance of getting.. but I completely understood where he was coming from.. he just happened to not know that we will be 5 wide all the time in season too.
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Post by jgordon1 on Jul 15, 2008 12:33:14 GMT -6
My question is why do we have to play for points all the time? How about 10 plays on Offense, 10 plays on D and now let's play for 15 minutes? Maybe coaches could actually be civilized. Like I said on the other post, Put 21 PP in the game and I will play robber and check to three vs one back stuff. If you come out in 10 PP or 00PP I'm in CV2 or CV 4 with nickel in the game because that is what we would do. We don't play 2man but if it was in my package I would certainly play when I thought it was necessary. If you are a two back team why don't you practice some two back stuff. Certainly if it is good enough for Bill Walsh it is good enough for you too. If it would make you feel better I'll put my LB's on the LOS and drop from there. If you ask nicely, I will play any coverage in my package for you, show me your best stuff, expose my weakness, Help ME get better. 7 on 7 is a drill games are played on Friday eve.. Let's use this time to teach, get better technique wise AND to build team chemistry. Are we here for ourselves or the kids as we always so proudly say
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Post by airraider on Jul 15, 2008 13:05:40 GMT -6
My question is why do we have to play for points all the time? How about 10 plays on Offense, 10 plays on D and now let's play for 15 minutes? Maybe coaches could actually be civilized. Like I said on the other post, Put 21 PP in the game and I will play robber and check to three vs one back stuff. If you come out in 10 PP or 00PP I'm in CV2 or CV 4 with nickel in the game because that is what we would do. We don't play 2man but if it was in my package I would certainly play when I thought it was necessary. If you are a two back team why don't you practice some two back stuff. Certainly if it is good enough for Bill Walsh it is good enough for you too. If it would make you feel better I'll put my LB's on the LOS and drop from there. If you ask nicely, I will play any coverage in my package for you, show me your best stuff, expose my weakness, Help ME get better. 7 on 7 is a drill games are played on Friday eve.. Let's use this time to teach, get better technique wise AND to build team chemistry. Are we here for ourselves or the kids as we always so proudly say I do feel this national movement to 7 on 7 tournaments is a bad thing.. you will soon have separate teams popping up.. you will have kids who want to only play 7 on 7 and not real football. It will eventually branch out like AAU basketball. |
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Post by airman on Jul 15, 2008 13:31:32 GMT -6
you would think me being a coach who favors throwing would love 7 on 7 but I do not. we do not do 7 on 7. I am sure you are saying this is odd but I find 7 on 7 to be a joke. 7 on 7 is only realistic if used as a blitz period and that is how I use it. summer 7 on 7 gives the qb a false since of protection where he can stand around for several seconds and pick off the defense. I have found 7 on 7 qb hold the ball longer during the season. then there is the fact that people actually run a 7 on 7 offense but run the wishbone for their school offense. what is up with that.
I would have a 7 on 7 team if the defense could blitz. Then it actually makes 7 on 7 realistic. I am sure there is a way which this could be done like making a lber come from a greater distance.
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Post by saintrad on Jul 15, 2008 13:52:01 GMT -6
you would think me being a coach who favors throwing would love 7 on 7 but I do not. we do not do 7 on 7. I am sure you are saying this is odd but I find 7 on 7 to be a joke. 7 on 7 is only realistic if used as a blitz period and that is how I use it. summer 7 on 7 gives the qb a false since of protection where he can stand around for several seconds and pick off the defense. I have found 7 on 7 qb hold the ball longer during the season. then there is the fact that people actually run a 7 on 7 offense but run the wishbone for their school offense. what is up with that. I would have a 7 on 7 team if the defense could blitz. Then it actually makes 7 on 7 realistic. I am sure there is a way which this could be done like making a lber come from a greater distance. i have stated my opinion on this on many a thread and boards. As a former spread/Air Raid OC i think 7 on 7 in the summer is akin to: "screwing your sister. it may feel good but it just ain't right no matter how you look at it." (sorry if I offended any coaches from Appalachia)  |
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Post by saintrad on Jul 15, 2008 13:52:02 GMT -6
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Post by Coach Huey on Jul 15, 2008 14:22:15 GMT -6
in texas:
alternative A - don't see your kids in the summer
alternative B - sign 'em up for 7on7 tournaments/leagues
we can't coach in the summer, so what is the alternatives to doing nothing? doing 7on7.
glad we are all so high and mighty to view what others do as a "joke" ...
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Post by coachhortman on Jul 15, 2008 14:24:27 GMT -6
We have been playing 7 on 7 since the late 90's. It has helped us tremedously because we do throw the ball probably 80 percent or more in our offense. We run realistic routes that we use in the season. I honestly believe that because of our work that we put in the summer with our timing of the QB and receivers that we are far ahead of teams that just got started in August. Since 2000, we have won we have won 5 state championships and was runner-up in 2003. Made the semifinals last year. If you treat it like it should be, it is a huge help.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 15, 2008 18:01:57 GMT -6
As with all the 7 on 7 threads...there are people who like the 7-on-7 games...and some who feel that working pass skell in the summer is GREAT, but modifying the game as they do in competitions is counterproductive. I fall in the latter group, and prefer scripted pass skell sessions that match situations /formations/down and distance to coverage calls.
I would be surprised if you can't find several coaches who feel similarly, and you can set up some great pass skell work.
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Post by saintrad on Jul 15, 2008 18:33:11 GMT -6
in texas: alternative A - don't see your kids in the summer alternative B - sign 'em up for 7on7 tournaments/leagues we can't coach in the summer, so what is the alternatives to doing nothing? doing 7on7. glad we are all so high and mighty to view what others do as a "joke" ... i guess that should go for all the threads then... I stated that I personally am not fond of 7 on 7s. Yes they have value, but being here int he SW it is kind of a joke. I wish I was back at Lufkin or in Oregon then it might mean something. I will only talk from my experience and thats all I will talk from. learn to like a grain of salt... it is summer and we are all wanting the season to start. |
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Post by saintrad on Jul 15, 2008 18:33:14 GMT -6
in texas: alternative A - don't see your kids in the summer alternative B - sign 'em up for 7on7 tournaments/leagues we can't coach in the summer, so what is the alternatives to doing nothing? doing 7on7. glad we are all so high and mighty to view what others do as a "joke" ... |
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ci
Freshmen Member
Posts: 48
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Post by ci on Jul 15, 2008 19:44:58 GMT -6
This is exactly why we don't keep score on 7 on 7's. They are a great tool if used correctly. We only have 7 on 7's at home & only invite teams that have coaching staffs that we like. 7 on 7's should be about teaching/coaching your own players and helping them learn. At our place, it's OK to have the opposing coach line his team up again, or run the same coverage...we will try to KAT on game day, but the summer is for learning. It's also nice to see some other concepts and schemes that are tough for your team to duplicate in a scrimmage....just my thoughts
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Post by jgordon1 on Jul 15, 2008 19:52:38 GMT -6
I'm with Ya
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Post by jhanawa on Jul 15, 2008 20:21:11 GMT -6
Saintrad,
Next year you'll have to come down to ours, we had 8 teams this year and will expand to 16 next year. All the teams had a great time, competed hard and got better every week. We went 4 weeks 1 day per week, first two weeks was a 10 play format, third week was tournament format, final day was double elimination tourney. Kids and coaches had a great time.
Only thing I'd like to change would be to make some sort of barrier to prevent any backs from releasing between the tackles....something light and safe but a barrier, maybe a pvc sawhorse or something.....
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Post by dhooper on Jul 15, 2008 23:17:46 GMT -6
I love 7 on 7 and my players. Yes some get pretty competitive but thats OK. I had a player get into a fight at U of A tournament this summer and the other player was ejected. The coach has to control his players. If I raise my voice they listen, period. Love 7 on 7, any thing that involves football I'm all for it.
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Post by saintrad on Jul 16, 2008 0:24:27 GMT -6
Saintrad, Next year you'll have to come down to ours, we had 8 teams this year and will expand to 16 next year. All the teams had a great time, competed hard and got better every week. We went 4 weeks 1 day per week, first two weeks was a 10 play format, third week was tournament format, final day was double elimination tourney. Kids and coaches had a great time. Only thing I'd like to change would be to make some sort of barrier to prevent any backs from releasing between the tackles....something light and safe but a barrier, maybe a pvc sawhorse or something..... i'll run it past the HC and see what his intent is... being a farm/ranch/rez town it is sometimes difficult to get kids to come out. I don't mind 7 on 7 if it is done correctly, but too many of these around here are glorified bully sessions. I spend a ton of time with my QBs and FBs (my positions I coach) as well as my offense that I coordinate and over the 25 yrs of playing/coaching have come to dread these 7 on 7s since it isnt a real representation of what we are going to see in the season and makes it somewhat difficult. Maybe once I get back to some real football (texas, Oregon, the valley, whereever) maybe 7 on 7s will be valuable again. (ok, coming down off my soapbox) |
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Post by theprez98 on Jul 16, 2008 5:54:20 GMT -6
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Post by joelee on Jul 16, 2008 7:50:59 GMT -6
If you don't like 7 on 7 don't do it. Us that do will continue to get better while you complain. If the other team wants to run some stupid things let them, they are'nt getting better.
I do agree on the lack of management/officiating/chippiness, I don't like that. I keep a pretty tight hold on my bunch at these things.
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Post by spreadbone on Jul 16, 2008 9:32:45 GMT -6
Did you read the article??? You have got to be kidding me! Here is a quote from Booker T Washington's head coach:
Tillman was particularly upset with Washington junior Quentin Dunbar, who left his teammates near the end of the fight and returned with a metal pole. Coaches stopped him and took it away.
"He will definitely be disciplined for that," Tillman said. "That was really uncalled for."
Disciplined! What does that mean? It should mean jail time, that was an attempt at assualt with a deadly weapon! I wonder what we'd be saying if he'd have hit someone with that metal pole? At the very least he should be removed from the team and placed in some form of alternative eduaction setting, the kid is dangerous in my opinion. I know I wasn't there, but he left the brawl to pick up a weapon, that means he had to think about what he was doing and think about picking up the weapon. Ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous, I beleive charges should be pressed. I'm afraid nothing will happen because he's an athlete. He'll get the slap on the wrist and a few years from now we'll wonder why he's in jail for attempted murder.
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Post by raiderpirates on Jul 19, 2008 1:21:53 GMT -6
If you take the sport away it from him it's far more likely he only ends up finding jail.
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You have got to be kidding me. These things are getting out of hand, as I've talked to some other hc's who told me about thier 7 on 7 experience. There is also a topic under secondary in the defensive section that seems to echo this sentiment. Anyhow, can't sleep and bored, just thought ya'll might want to know!
