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Post by groundchuck on Jul 1, 2008 11:05:04 GMT -6
I have always been associated with schools that did what I call a "County Fair" conditioning circuit during 2-a-days. It might 4-8 stations depending on the number of coaches and it involves everything from agility drills to tire flips. Then a whistle blows and they run to the next station. You know the drill.
I am going to be a HC (again) this fall and am seriously thinking about doing away with this. I heard Boyd Epley speak about how it is not football specific as far as the energy system goes. There is not enough rest.
If players push themselves in regular drills and in more specific conditioning later in practice they should still get into football shape. It also seems like with limited practice time the 20-25 minutes it takes to run the kids through could be better spent teaching fundamentals.
Thoughts?
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Post by davecisar on Jul 1, 2008 11:21:55 GMT -6
I heard Boyd Eppley speak twice this year< he wasnt a proponent of conditioning late in practice either. He made a pretty compelling case IMHO, same for the 27 yard sprint.
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Post by txtoks06 on Jul 1, 2008 11:30:25 GMT -6
I've decided to do position specific conditioning at the beginning of practice this year. Heard a coach in Texas speak once that said if you end practice with conditioning, you end practice on a negative note.
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Post by eickst on Jul 1, 2008 12:33:07 GMT -6
That's an interesting idea, doing conditioning at the beginning of practice. I personally would rather just keep practice fast and build in conditioning into practice so I don't have to set any time aside for it, but sometimes it's tough to do that.
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Post by davecisar on Jul 1, 2008 14:03:26 GMT -6
Eick,
That is what Boyd Eppley was proposing at the 2 clinics I saw him speak at. A fast paced practice.
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Post by airman on Jul 1, 2008 14:07:33 GMT -6
I have always conditioned at the beginning of practice. we do a dynamic warmup and then we condition for 15 to 20 minutes. it teaches players how to play through being tried.
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Post by schultbear74 on Jul 1, 2008 14:46:40 GMT -6
football specific conditioning could be a good way to go at the beginning of practice.
Add a question to that. How many explosions should you plan for in a practice?
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Post by tog on Jul 1, 2008 14:53:35 GMT -6
I think it all depends on the kids and how accountable you have made them.
We did conditioning at the start of practice one year with a group of kids that knew if they busted their tails the rest of the practice the next day's conditioning would be lighter.
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Post by lionhart on Jul 1, 2008 15:12:01 GMT -6
we condition at the beginning of practice as well. the way we figure, if a kid knows that he has conditioning waiting for him at the end of practice, he will keep a little in his tank and wont give it all during practice. so we get it over with early and like airman says, it teaches them to push through fatigue
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parkway
Sophomore Member
Posts: 170
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Post by parkway on Jul 1, 2008 15:49:19 GMT -6
I think it is all about how you view the conditioning. For example, you might do a great conditioning circuit, whether it be at the beginning, middle, or end of practice, and then have your kids stand around for the next 90 minutes because the practice tempo sucks. If this is the case, what has the conditioning period, no matter when it is or what it consists of, accomplished? Take the opposite scenario. You run your kids through the most ass-backwards conditioning session there is. But, you run practice with an extremely demanding tempo whereas your athletes learn how to listen and perform in a stressful situation. In my opinion, the goal of any conditioning period should be to get the team to learn the traits of accountability, teamwork, and selling out. By selling out, I mean giving 110% while on the field. Then, take those lessons learned and apply them to the practice field. With this in mind, I think it is more important to look at how we teach the traits that are necessary to be a successful football team during a conditioning session than the actual exercise selection or when to apply them. As an example of application, I am a big believer in grading each kid after a conditioning session. Many colleges do this and I am sure that you guys are aware of how they do it. Work them hard, develop leaders, create a culture of accountability and teamwork.
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Post by coachorr on Jul 1, 2008 16:01:34 GMT -6
Back in the day, I used to do the conditioning with the kids, at the end of practice. Although I was doing it to try and stay in shape, it brought back bad memories of what I disliked the most about playing the game of football. When I was at a smaller school and we did not platoon, we conditioned in the middle of practice between defense and offense, for the reasons already stated. Offense came second and we felt that it made the kids have to focus that much more on offense when they were practicing and to stay focussed through being tired.
I also liked the fact that we did position specific conditioning, It was more realistic to what the kids could handle. I think it is not effective to have a 300lb lineman run laps.
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Post by eickst on Jul 1, 2008 16:13:08 GMT -6
Eick, That is what Boyd Eppley was proposing at the 2 clinics I saw him speak at. A fast paced practice. I actually learned that from some of your posts Dave, and I think one of Reeds books as well. But for me....conditioning is sometimes pointless with the younger kids anyway. I don't see a point in doing conditioning with 12 yr olds. I just don't. When I was 12, and these kids do it as well, I would run all freaking day long. At most I would need a 1 or 2 minute breather and then I could go for another 30 minutes. I didn't even drink water, just soda all the time. Why would I waste 20 minutes of practice on conditioning when the kids can already run marathons? If anything I'll spend those 20 minutes on speed and strength specific drills instead of my on grass version of the Los Angeles marathon. |
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Post by davecisar on Jul 1, 2008 17:19:38 GMT -6
We stopped taking time from our regular practice schedule to condition over 8 saeasons ago.
Youth level, cant speak for the HS guys.
But in 2002 after a game in 95 degree heat after not conditioning for the previous 4 weeks ( fast paced practices) after our game was over the kids were playing full speed tackle football ( I made them go touch) with kickoffs and everything on the plateau behind our game field for 60 MINUTES.
Convinced me we didnt need to condition if we had the right practice priorities and kept a very intense pace.
I used to be one of those "win it in the 4th quarter guys" but I found a much more effective path for the young kids anyways.
As a HS kid I remember "saving up" some gas to make it through conditioning instead of going all out the final hour of practice. I bet a lot of us did that if we are honest with ourselves.
In college we didnt condition, never saved up.
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Post by eickst on Jul 1, 2008 17:32:30 GMT -6
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Post by mwpilots on Jul 1, 2008 20:33:13 GMT -6
I believe in circuit at the beginning of practice and having a fast tempo practice that includes skills and drills,1-on-1's,7-on-7,9-on-7,team,special teams and conditioning(4 quarters) at the end. I don't think this ever hurt anybody. I personally think that it eliminates a lot of silly mistakes at the end of games. I think it also helps with their technique. I find that when kids get tired the first thing to go is their technique. This is just my opinion.
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burn
Sophomore Member
Posts: 181
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Post by burn on Jul 1, 2008 22:18:05 GMT -6
For some reason I think anything old school toughens up this soft generation of kids. Just take the same circuits and make them football specific. One of the things we have found is that we lose kids that are too soft for the game.
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 2, 2008 6:06:59 GMT -6
I always believed in conditioning football players like wrestlers, but with a little more football type activities.
We conditioned in a four quarters method when I was a HC. 1st Qrtr was the big one with the whole team involved, 2nd was smaller and position specific, 3rd could be team or indy and 4th was completely team and effort based. Usually ran cross field gassers for time. Run it in under a certain time, AS A TEAM, you're done for the day. Amazing how kids pull together to get that last kid across in under the time.
Ran a lot of down, back downs (gassers), 40 yard ladder sprints, goalposts, stadium stairs (offseason), 40 yarders, suicides, etc.
Also won 4 of our 5 victories by coming from behind in the 4th quarter.
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Post by phantom on Jul 2, 2008 8:09:09 GMT -6
I have always been associated with schools that did what I call a "County Fair" conditioning circuit during 2-a-days. It might 4-8 stations depending on the number of coaches and it involves everything from agility drills to tire flips. Then a whistle blows and they run to the next station. You know the drill. I am going to be a HC (again) this fall and am seriously thinking about doing away with this. I heard Boyd Epley speak about how it is not football specific as far as the energy system goes. There is not enough rest. If players push themselves in regular drills and in more specific conditioning later in practice they should still get into football shape. It also seems like with limited practice time the 20-25 minutes it takes to run the kids through could be better spent teaching fundamentals. Thoughts? I agree. If the guys work hard there's no reason to do extra conditioning. We do do extra running after practice. I believe that that's psychological. |
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Post by coachorr on Jul 2, 2008 11:42:14 GMT -6
Larrymoe, great post. I think football is a game of "toughness"; even though, it is becoming more like basketball on turf. Hard work and discipline, play a key role in the success of a football team and overcoming adversity can be a great way of doing this.
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 2, 2008 16:08:18 GMT -6
We use our "circuit" as a change up about every 2 weeks and most of the drills are football specific, but the toughness factor is something we preach constantly (and try to practice). I've also found the competitive nature of these types of drills, if done in short bursts or areas, can really help your backups and second tier guys close ground - physically and psychologically - on the starters and thereby become more effective (and valuable) to the team.
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Post by eickst on Jul 2, 2008 16:37:42 GMT -6
I would be more inclined to go the "Enduro" route than just a straight up gassers type thing.
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 2, 2008 22:27:54 GMT -6
What is "Enduro"?
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by tedseay on Jul 3, 2008 3:35:49 GMT -6
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Post by eickst on Jul 3, 2008 8:56:48 GMT -6
Oops, Ted. You posted a link to a PDF with a password.
The password is enduro
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 3, 2008 12:48:35 GMT -6
Read the Enduro description and would personally classify that as one of those "toughness" drills due to the 30 second exercise interval. We typically go for a shorter (bust sustained) burst of effort with a football or old school activity just to make it more football specific from a physiological standpoint. Absolutely nothing wrong with occasionally using a 30 second or longer interval - we just use the shorter one most of the time.
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