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Post by groundchuck on May 29, 2008 10:47:26 GMT -6
I just took a building job at a 3A school. In the past this school went to a 4 team scrimmage and competed against:
5A school from a tough conference
3A state champs who two platoon 22 different players
2A school with good tradition and are very physical
I have the opportunity to take my team to a different scrimmage that will IMO allow us a better opportunity to experience success while still greatly challenging us.
We will be experiencing growing pains with our offense and defense as well.
I also know in order to find out how good/bad you are you need to scrimmage good competition, but IMO there is a point when that no longer makes sense. (Like if I wanted to prove my toughness by getting in the ring with Mike Tyson in his prime)
So would you take your (young) team to a scrimmage knowing you will get beat up physically and mentally by bigger, faster, strong, larger schools when you have the chance to go to a differnt scrimmage where you have a chance to compete and maybe even do well?
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Post by CVBears on May 29, 2008 10:51:58 GMT -6
coach- it sounds like you have already know what the right decision is in your mind. I think it is the right one.
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Post by airraider on May 29, 2008 11:08:11 GMT -6
I had the same problem as you.. I could have either played Evangel Christian and gotten our brains beaten in.. and probably lost some kids in the process.. or I could have done what I did.. and played a middle of the road team and had some relative success.. Glad I did what I did.
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Post by fbdoc on May 29, 2008 11:15:08 GMT -6
When you're building a program, WINS are crucial. There will always be time to play the big boys down the road.
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Post by hustleandheart on May 29, 2008 21:11:25 GMT -6
When you're building a program, WINS are crucial. There will always be time to play the big boys down the road. Yes, but he is talking about a scrimmage. Anyway, I'd only challenge "Mike Tyson" if it was an extreme punishment. But that doesn't sound like the case for you. Though you can see some real character in some of the kids if you do play them, who gives in, who gives it their all. See who stands up and tries to rally the troops. Good luck either way. |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 29, 2008 23:11:51 GMT -6
get out of it...
You need to put the kids in positions where they can grow...You don't grow from getting physically pounded. It isn't like basketball..where their reactions and anticipation will improve from playing faster and better competition. Here, they will simply get PHYSICALLY beat..and discouraged... and if it is rebuilding, you need to have the kids win their individual battles to grow.
If what you describe is true..this is a no brainer...still greatly challenging, BUT an opportunity for some success...VS a situation where you are pretty sure you will not experience success.... easy decision
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Post by coachd5085 on May 30, 2008 0:18:47 GMT -6
Question: Lets say you get out of that 4 way with the dogs. Can you get back in later or will they replace you and leave you on the outside looking in? I also think you have to consider your schedule, I agree wins are important, but winning scrimmages isn't. Scrimmages should prepare you for season. I guess I look at things a little different from time to time but you are 3A, the 3x 3A State Champions are in that scrimmage...is that not the level you are trying to reach? I'm also more of a 'fan' of scrimmaging coaches, not necessarily teams. When we scrimmage, I want to scrimmage teams (regardless of school size) whom I know are well coached, of course they are learning just like everyone else, but they are well versed and coached in what they do. And don't use "young" as an excuse...if you are going to put those boys on that field on friday night, they are Varsity players regardless of their age or grade. No one out there is going to take it easy on them because they are a sophomore in games 1-10, I say they might as well learn the deal right now. I would stay in the 4 way. Besides, who wants to fight Buster Douglas when you could fight Mike Tyson? I think much of this depends on the disparity in levels. For example, one of the programs I used to coach with played John Curtis Christian in the preseason jamboree (2 15 minute halves). Couldn't find another opponent. At the end of the first half, Curtis was up 49-0. Curtis had run 7 offensive plays (do the math...). Not much can be gained from this situation, save the ever-encouraging "we won't see another team like this all year". Keep in mind, groundchuck is not saying he is looking to get out of this scrimmage, and then go kick around a perennial bottom dweller. He thinks he is in a situation where his team will be clearly outmanned, and feels he can get into another situation where his team will have a chance to enjoy some success IF they do what is necessary. In order to right the ship (5-22) the kids need to buy in. It is hard to get them to buy into doing things the right way, into hard work, discipline, when they don't see some results. Just playing the % here, but one summer offseason, (and maybe a spring) is probably not enough to get a 5-22 team in a position where scrimmaging that type of competition improves the team. If you as a coach do not feel your team will get much out of it (ie 7 plays/7 TD's for the bad guys...lol) you aren't going to get much improvement. |
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Post by lsrood on May 30, 2008 7:24:58 GMT -6
Groundchuck
From previous posts you'll note that we have been where you are. We are a AAA school who the past two years scrimmaged two AAAA schools, one who is probably double our size and from a very tough physical conference. We got beat up physically and really did not get much positive out of it, as we headed into a killer exhibition schedule at less than full strength.
We changed this year to two teams more comparable in size but with excellent coaches and strong traditions. The scrimmages will still be tough but very competitive. That is what I was looking for, teams that would test us and that we could compete with.
You have to decide what is best for your program right now. Don't worry about two or three years down the road. I don't know how your scrimmages get scheduled in your state, but in PA we usually have 2 year contracts and then we can switch if we want. Two or three years from now you might be ready to jump back in with the big dogs, then you can do it. Getting the crap beat out of you when you are trying to change the losing culture doesn't do any good. They already know what that feels like. Get them some success and build them back up so that they can compete with the big boys when they are ready.
Just my opinion and I know not everyone agrees with it.
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iso
Freshmen Member
Posts: 78
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Post by iso on May 30, 2008 10:17:25 GMT -6
I had the same situation when I landed here. It was a one on one scrimmage, so I wanted out but didn't want to stick the other team without a scrimmage. I explained the situation to the coach, it was obvious that he would rather kick our butts than switch so we played the thing.
Our kids rallied to the challenge, their kids were not mentally prepared because they knew how weak we were. They fumbled, missed blocks, etc. and we played evenly that night . . . during the season they would have crushed us. We survived and had a year to arrange our own scrimmages for the next season.
As eluded to earlier in this thread, the key to setting up scrimmages for me is the coach of the other team. A guy that you know and respect can be trusted to do the right thing if the teams aren't evenly matched in a given year - both team get something out of every scrimmage if the coaches work together.
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