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Post by WB22 on May 22, 2008 10:32:11 GMT -6
I'm changing a good portion of my offense (going to a new school and all) & need to adapt my formations, also. I want to be very multiple in my formations. So, does anyone have any information (ideas...or even a complete system) they'd be willing to share ?Obviously, I'd like the capability to call numerous formations without being too wordy or difficult for the players.
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Post by fatkicker on May 22, 2008 11:07:21 GMT -6
to me it's either....tell each player where to go.....or give a formation nickname and trust each player to remember the formation name....
for example....
basing out of the pro I.....we always tell tight end where to go....
right twins f right
right-tight end right
twins-twins to left side
f right-fullback split wide right
you get a one back tailback balanced set
or right h right (h is halfback or tailback....i like the old school halfback...ha)
right-tight end right
h right-tailback lines up wide right
you get a fullback backfield with tight end trips to right side.....
or you could call it "bama right" or "cowboy right".....and the kids know where to go....
i like telling each position as the first example....but it can get wordy....
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Post by coachd5085 on May 22, 2008 11:12:31 GMT -6
rookie..one great way to do that is to come up with some "framework" formations..maybe 3 or 4. The players have to memorize these formations, and then from that, you can just create tags that tell the player specifically what to do.
For example..lets say one base formation was a 2 TE straight T set. Left TE is x, right TE is Y, the backs are A,B,C or whatever. To get into the traditional Wing T set, you call " T - x out C up" or something like that.
Now, is that much wordier than just calling that Red, or Blue or Ray or Lou or 100,900...ABSOLUTELY. However, the kids only needed to memorize ONE formation. Now, you can "tell" the kids exactly how to vary from their base with the tags. They don't need to memorize anything. "T -x over c up " would put you in the end over. etc.
Anytime you want to be very multiple, you need to either have the kids memorize a bunch of formations, OR you have to be somewhat wordy. You can't have it any other way.
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coacher
Sophomore Member
Posts: 191
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Post by coacher on May 22, 2008 12:00:20 GMT -6
I got outside of my confort zone last year and switched our foramtions to colors. It is very simple. Every base formation is strong right unless we tag a flip. EX 1X3 set is Black. Our 3x1 set is Black Flip.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on May 22, 2008 12:37:31 GMT -6
I say have base formations, with tags that move kids aorund. If it is 3+tags in the formation, it needs to have a new name.
Ala:
Red (TE Rt/double wing)
Red Open (TE Split Rt/double wing)
Red Over (TE Rt/double wing/SE OVER)
...these are fine...two words roll off the tongue
Red Open Over (TE Rt Open, SE Over, Double wing) - THIS IS THE POINT WHERE YOU NEED TO RENAME THIS FORMATION...maybe Robin/Eagle...
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Post by falconscoach on May 22, 2008 13:25:34 GMT -6
Are you going to run the same plays out of different formations. I guess is my first question. If so how about just keeping it simple and give the FORMATION a school name i.e.
single wing= syracuse
wish bone=washington
double wing=delaware
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Post by lochness on May 22, 2008 14:45:37 GMT -6
Coach,
We have gotten away from names, colors, etc. and tried to have a system that is COMPARTMENTALIZED (ie: players know they only have to listen to the part of the formation call that pertains to them) and LOGICAL (is a direct tie-in with what we want, rather than 2 or 3 steps separated from it, in terms of memory recall and learning).
So, we use the following as a structure to what we call:
“BACKFIELD ALIGNMENT / Z ALIGNMENT / TE and SE ALIGNMENT”
So, for the Backfield, we assign letters to our 2-RB sets:
I= “I” Formation
B= “Base Splitbacks”
N= “Near FB”
F= “Far FB”
W= “Weak HB”
S= “Strong HB”
For the Z, we use “slot numbers.” Our holes are odds left, evens right, so we maintain consistency with that:
1 or 2 Slot: Power Slot (Power back in the I formation)
3 or 4 Slot: Sniffer Slot (Sniffer, directly behind the OT)
5 or 6 Slot: Wing Slot (Wing Back, 1x1 outside OT position)
7 or 8 Slot: Flank Slot (WR, split out and off the line)
For the TE (Y) / SE (X), we use the following set of rules:
If we are in “Base,” which is 1 TE package...we give a directional call, “Right” or “Left.” The TE goes to the call, and the SE goes away from the call. Pretty simple.
If we are in 2 TE package, we don’t give a directional call. The “X” is replaced by the 2nd TE and is always on the left. The “Y” stays in the game and is always on the right.
If we are in 0 TE package, we don’t give a directional call. We will, however, say "Spread" to differentiate from the 2 TE package where there is no call. The “Y” is replaced by the 2nd SE and is always on the right. The “X” stays in the game and is always on the left.
Examples:
[glow=red,2,300]I8 Right= Pro I Right [/glow]
--X-------------O--O--C--O--O--Y
-----------------------Q-------------------------------Z
-----------------------2
-----------------------3
[glow=red,2,300]B5 Left= Splitbacks, TE Wing left [/glow]
-------------Y--O--O--C--O--O---------------------X
-----------Z-----------Q
------------------3---------2
[glow=red,2,300] N7 Right= FB offset Near the Z [/glow] (we offset to the Z, NOT the TE. This is for consistency when we are in 2 TE or 0 TE packages), twins left, TE right.
--X-------------O--O--C--O--O--Y
------Z---------------Q
------------------2
-----------------------3
[glow=red,2,300]I7 Spread: [/glow]
--X-------------O--O--C--O--O----------------------Y
------Z---------------Q
-----------------------2
-----------------------3
[glow=red,2,300]B4= Splitbacks, 2 TE, Sniffer Back on the right [/glow]
-------------X--O--O--C--O--O--Y
-----------------------Q-----Z
------------------3---------2
Single RB Sets:
For 1 RB packages, the FB comes out and is replaced by a 2nd Z. In this case, we eliminate the use of the “Letter” to align the backfield in favor of an additional “slot number” to align the Z who has replaced the FB.
So, now instead of “O7 Left,” we will have “87 Right” which puts the replacement Z in the 8 slot, the original Z in the 7 slot, the TE on the Right, and the SE on the left. We generally refer to the 2nd Z as the "H" in our diagrams. In single back sets, the single RB is always in the "home" position, as he would be in the "I."
Examples:
[glow=red,2,300]87 Right:[/glow]
--X-------------O--O--C--O--O--Y
------Z----------------Q-------------------------------H
-----------------------3
[glow=red,2,300]68 Left:[/glow]
-------------Y--O--O--C--O--O-----------------------X
-----------------------Q------------H-------------Z
-----------------------3
[glow=red,2,300]78 Spread: [/glow]
-X-------------O--O--C--O--O-----------------------Y
-------H--------------Q-------------------------Z
-----------------------3
Once you get this, you can pretty much make any formation you want.
-You can use “Gun” as a tag, and now you can get into the gun.
-You can use the slot numbers to define motion as a tag.
-You can shift in and out of different sets.
The BEST thing about this formation system is that it is extremely multiple, but it isn’t very wordy...and it remains consistent through all of the packages you may want to install. You can keep the same formation system in place year after year and and change your primary formations as needed without “installing a new offense” or a “new terminology system.” I love it, and it works great...!
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Post by cqmiller on May 22, 2008 14:57:58 GMT -6
I have seen both different ways work in the past. Our HC uses a technique where each color represents a formation, and the call would be:
Green Right = Green formation with Y on right
Green Left = Green formation with Y on left
Pink Right = Pink formation with Y on right
Pink Left = Pink formation with Y on left
I like to use the base formation, and just add a word that tells specific players where to go. In our I-formation based offense for example, I use the words Wing and Sing to represent the HB going to either the Weak or Strong side in a "wing" position so the kids would need to remember what wing means and the direction the TE lines up on:
Sing Right = Sing formation with Y on right
Sing Left = Sing formation with Y on left
Wing Right = Wing formation with Y on right
Wing Left = Wing formation with Y on left
As you see in both cases, the kids are still required to memorize what the first word means, followed by the rule of which side to go to based off of the location of the TE... I just prefer to have the first word "give a reminder" of which side the player moved goes to... The H knows that Wing & Sing only apply to him, and so when he hears Wing he lines up weak, and Sing he lines up strong.
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Post by dubber on May 22, 2008 15:32:53 GMT -6
Coach, We have gotten away from names, colors, etc. and tried to have a system that is COMPARTMENTALIZED (ie: players know they only have to listen to the part of the formation call that pertains to them) and LOGICAL (is a direct tie-in with what we want, rather than 2 or 3 steps separated from it, in terms of memory recall and learning). So, we use the following as a structure to what we call: “BACKFIELD ALIGNMENT / Z ALIGNMENT / TE and SE ALIGNMENT” So, for the Backfield, we assign letters to our 2-RB sets: I= “I” Formation B= “Base Splitbacks” N= “Near FB” F= “Far FB” W= “Weak HB” S= “Strong HB” For the Z, we use “slot numbers.” Our holes are odds left, evens right, so we maintain consistency with that: 1 or 2 Slot: Power Slot (Power back in the I formation) 3 or 4 Slot: Sniffer Slot (Sniffer, directly behind the OT) 5 or 6 Slot: Wing Slot (Wing Back, 1x1 outside OT position) 7 or 8 Slot: Flank Slot (WR, split out and off the line) For the TE (Y) / SE (X), we use the following set of rules: If we are in “Base,” which is 1 TE package...we give a directional call, “Right” or “Left.” The TE goes to the call, and the SE goes away from the call. Pretty simple. If we are in 2 TE package, we don’t give a directional call. The “X” is replaced by the 2nd TE and is always on the left. The “Y” stays in the game and is always on the right. If we are in 0 TE package, we don’t give a directional call. We will, however, say "Spread" to differentiate from the 2 TE package where there is no call. The “Y” is replaced by the 2nd SE and is always on the right. The “X” stays in the game and is always on the left. Examples: [glow=red,2,300]I8 Right= Pro I Right [/glow] --X-------------O--O--C--O--O--Y -----------------------Q-------------------------------Z -----------------------2 -----------------------3 [glow=red,2,300]B5 Left= Splitbacks, TE Wing left [/glow] -------------Y--O--O--C--O--O---------------------X -----------Z-----------Q ------------------3---------2 [glow=red,2,300] N7 Right= FB offset Near the Z [/glow] (we offset to the Z, NOT the TE. This is for consistency when we are in 2 TE or 0 TE packages), twins left, TE right. --X-------------O--O--C--O--O--Y ------Z---------------Q ------------------2 -----------------------3 [glow=red,2,300]I7 Spread: [/glow] --X-------------O--O--C--O--O----------------------Y ------Z---------------Q -----------------------2 -----------------------3 [glow=red,2,300]B4= Splitbacks, 2 TE, Sniffer Back on the right [/glow] -------------X--O--O--C--O--O--Y -----------------------Q-----Z ------------------3---------2 Single RB Sets: For 1 RB packages, the FB comes out and is replaced by a 2nd Z. In this case, we eliminate the use of the “Letter” to align the backfield in favor of an additional “slot number” to align the Z who has replaced the FB. So, now instead of “O7 Left,” we will have “87 Right” which puts the replacement Z in the 8 slot, the original Z in the 7 slot, the TE on the Right, and the SE on the left. We generally refer to the 2nd Z as the "H" in our diagrams. In single back sets, the single RB is always in the "home" position, as he would be in the "I." Examples: [glow=red,2,300]87 Right:[/glow] --X-------------O--O--C--O--O--Y ------Z----------------Q-------------------------------H -----------------------3 [glow=red,2,300]68 Left:[/glow] -------------Y--O--O--C--O--O-----------------------X -----------------------Q------------H-------------Z -----------------------3 [glow=red,2,300]78 Spread: [/glow] -X-------------O--O--C--O--O-----------------------Y -------H--------------Q-------------------------Z -----------------------3 Once you get this, you can pretty much make any formation you want. -You can use “Gun” as a tag, and now you can get into the gun. -You can use the slot numbers to define motion as a tag. -You can shift in and out of different sets. The BEST thing about this formation system is that it is extremely multiple, but it isn’t very wordy...and it remains consistent through all of the packages you may want to install. You can keep the same formation system in place year after year and and change your primary formations as needed without “installing a new offense” or a “new terminology system.” I love it, and it works great...! This should go in the articles section......can we get a mod on that? Great stuff, loch. |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 22, 2008 16:33:15 GMT -6
I say have base formations, with tags that move kids aorund. If it is 3+tags in the formation, it needs to have a new name. Ala: Red (TE Rt/double wing) Red Open (TE Split Rt/double wing) Red Over (TE Rt/double wing/SE OVER) ...these are fine...two words roll off the tongue Red Open Over (TE Rt Open, SE Over, Double wing) - THIS IS THE POINT WHERE YOU NEED TO RENAME THIS FORMATION...maybe Robin/Eagle... See, this is where I think it depends on how many different formations you are planning to run. If you are going to run 4 or 5 formations, I would agree. But if you are looking to run 40-50 different sets, I think having to memorize 10-12 major formations with 4-5 tags to each might be counterproductive. |
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clloyd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 210
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Post by clloyd on May 22, 2008 21:35:48 GMT -6
We have changed the way we call our formations this year.
First our default side is always right so if your position is called you line up to the right.
Tight=Y as a TE to the right and S are split end to the left
Split=S as a SE to the right and Y as a TE to the left
Y=puts our Y as a SE to the Right and the S split to the left
S=puts our S as a SE to the Right and the Y split to the right
The only other thing we will do with our Split and Tight is call Right or Left and they both go tot the side and line up in an Over formation.
Our Z and H will line up according to our hole numbering system we use the traditional wing-t with 1 to the right and 9 to the left.
If we call 27, Z goes to the 1st number 2, so he will linuep in a wing position to the right whether there is a TE or not.
The H will lineup at the second number 7 so that puts him in the BF behind the LT.
The F will always lineup in a 5 directly behind the QB unless a 3 digit number is giving the 3 digit number gets him to move to the third number.
If a 5 is the 1st or 2nd number the back will lineup in the traditional I back position.
1 and 9 put them out as a flanker to that side.
Example
S 28 would get me to a double slot look with the Z to the right and the H to the left.
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kakavian
Sophomore Member
Where's the ball, boy? Find the ball.
Posts: 175
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Post by kakavian on May 23, 2008 9:51:59 GMT -6
Coach another way to do it is to use a number system. For instance, we had that this last year, (Stole it from Stanford).
Odd numbers have the TE involved.
Then you just plug and play.
1- single TE
2- Single WR
3 - TE Pro set i.e TE and Flanker
4 - WR and Slot
5 - TE and Wing
6 - WR and Wing
7 - TE, Wing, Flanker
8- WR Flanker Wing
9 - TE flex Trips
0 - WR, Slot, Flanker
Then you tag the back field with a word, Ace, I, Split, Gunetc.
So a split back pro right would be 23 split, What ever your base back field is, you could just leave off that word.
Some examples-
Double Wing Flexbone is a 66
Double Slot Spread was a 44 Gun
Wing -T - 56/65
Texas Tech Air Raid - 49/94
Obviously you can change the tags for the type of formations you use, you can mix and match to create quite a few types of formations.
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Post by packcoach on May 23, 2008 13:19:33 GMT -6
Rookie:
I have always hated too many words in play calling. When I developed an offensive system, I tried to find ways to make things easier for kids. We flip our offensive line so we had to come up with a way to tell everyone where to line up. We started with simply Right and Left. This a the basic Pro I set with the TE and Z to the strength. From there, we decided that every formation name had to declare either right or left as the strong side so formation names start with "R" or "L" (and of course there are exceptions) So names like Ray/Lee, Rose/Lou, Razor/Laser, Rip/Liz, etc. became our formations. We tag any backfield change as well as any adjustment like a flexed TE. For linemen, it's easy. Skill guys have to memorize formations, but we try to keep them in "families" to make it easier.
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Post by easye17 on May 24, 2008 11:59:17 GMT -6
There was a thread on this somewhere on here recently. What we do is we have 4 formations that designate the X, Z, Y (Rt/Lt, Rip/Liz, Ricky/Lee, Roger/Louie). If there is nothing else called, the backs are lined up in the I.
Ex.
Rt. - General Pro I Rt.
Ricky - Y is Flexed to the Rt.
Rip - Y is flexed, but off the ball and Z is on the ball
Roger - Y is on the Rt., but Z is flipped over (so it looks like twins left, TE right)
Then what we do is use placements for the backs. If in a formation call they do not hear a word that pertains to them, they are in the backfield.
F (our fullback)
Near/Far - Off set in the backfield near the TE or away (far) from the TE. Looks like Strong I or Wea I
High/Higher - High tells the F to be 1x1 off a TE, Higher tells him to split the difference between TE and Z
Low/Lower - Low tells F to go away from a TE, 1x1 off where TE would be. Lower tells him to go away from TE and split difference between tackle and X.
H (our TB) - same locations as F placements, just called different stuff.
Over/Under
Wing/Wide
Off/Out
This works unbelievably well for us because all our players only need to know what applies to them. For example - the F only needs to know the direction of the call (R or L) and then the word that applies to him Over/under, low/lower, high/higher.
The Z only needs to know 1 formation thats different. He goes to the call every time except Rog/Lou.
The X goes opposite every time.
Y goes to call every time, needs to know 4 things
F knows 6 things
H knows 6 things
The other thing that we do is we motion alot and we change personnel alot. We can put anyone on the field at any place on the field. The ability to create match up problems for defenses is such a weapon. I admit, the first time I was exposed to this as a QB in college, I was overwhelmed because I needed to know so much stuff. But when its broken down into its seperate parts, it becomes unbelievably easy. The first time we start going over formations, the kids have a tough time for about 5 minutes, and then we can really line up in any formation that we want. After this, I won't use another formation system again.
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Post by coachorr on May 24, 2008 23:26:37 GMT -6
I have given some of our base formations names of animals, as this can be used for no-huddle situtations. Rhino = I Right. Lion= I left. If I want off-set I just call near/far before the animal. If I want to make that Twins I would say (Rhino Twins) If I wanted a twins look with a slot (meaning the Z receiver is a wing to the weak side) I would say Rhino Slot, same with wing (meaning the slot receiver 1X1 off the tight end) I would say Rhino Wing.
Now, I have always said trips right and left, but I have thought about using colors. I may use colors for all Gun sets and animals for all Under center sets, but then again that would limit what I could do. Honestly, I need to learn Loch's system, because it is so diverse and kids only have to remember minimal amount of stuff.
For double tight and or double slot I call it ACE. Double tight one back would be Ace. If I wanted double slot (Flexbone) I would say ACE Slot. I have thought seriously about using Lochness' system, but there are certain reasons why I don't think I wll. We will be primarily out of the gun next year based on our personnel and I don't think I am smart enough to do it.
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Post by coachorr on May 24, 2008 23:55:10 GMT -6
For our no huddle, States are pass (since states are bigger or longer distances across as pass plays are longer) and Runs are cities (since cities are smaller or shorter distances across) and screens are names of towns in Idaho (our state). And I call the play to the right and to the left and can check opposite at the line or in the huddle.
Near Rhino 1718 Omaha = Near right I 18 Option. (The 1 signifies the QB and the 8 the hole) Note: any option to the 7 or the 8 is going to be a speed option, anything inside of that is going to be a triple option.
Far lion 3536 Portland = Far left I 36 Power (The 3 signifies the H)
For doubles I call ringo and lucky meaning that I want the F to one side or the other in doubles.
Ringo 2526 Vegas= Gun Doubles Z jet 26 Veer
If I wanted to run the Jet out of it I would call
Ringo 2728 Juno (Sp?)
If I wanted to call a speed option out of doubles I would have to change the typical jet motion to orbit or a switch back motion which we call Razor and Lazer.
Ringo Razor 1718 Omaha. Doubles the Slot receiver to the right is going to motion in to the formation and then at the snap of the ball will reverse pivot and go the other way
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Post by raiderpirates on May 29, 2008 4:12:23 GMT -6
Coach, We have gotten away from names, colors, etc. and tried to have a system that is COMPARTMENTALIZED (ie: players know they only have to listen to the part of the formation call that pertains to them) and LOGICAL (is a direct tie-in with what we want, rather than 2 or 3 steps separated from it, in terms of memory recall and learning). The league mandated a numbering system for run holes, for the early years the league lacked consistency with the approach of coaching people into position, they were essentially still newcomers at the MS level and actually setting their progress back one season. The founders got together with the HS coach to help the feeder program somewhat, though he's changed his entire system to use many elements of what worked best in the league. He was prior a spread gun/Malzahn guy, now he's a single/double spread/gun. The single and and double wing form the basis of what he does and he adds the spread/gun to change the feel other teams can get. So, we use the following as a structure to what we call: “BACKFIELD ALIGNMENT / Z ALIGNMENT / TE and SE ALIGNMENT” We simply had tags for introductory level, but the tags didn't apply consistently, something that gave us trouble in games when people lined up wrong on form changes, or we heard those tags and assumed the plays we ran from one form would apply to the other. This wasted valuable practice time, we won the games the trouble came up, but the margin was not always what it could be. We left points and yards on the field until we established two major forms as a way of working the focus for outside or inside football. For the Z, we use “slot numbers.” Our holes are odds left, evens right, so we maintain consistency with that: This is almost universally consistent now. My preference is numbers for routes so you can have more diverse an offense. Since we're the first level we had too simplify passing to grouping and route combination calls. For the TE (Y) / SE (X), we use the following set of rules: If we are in “Base,” which is 1 TE package...we give a directional call, “Right” or “Left.” The TE goes to the call, and the SE goes away from the call. Pretty simple. If we are in 2 TE package, we don’t give a directional call. The “X” is replaced by the 2nd TE and is always on the left. The “Y” stays in the game and is always on the right. If we are in 0 TE package, we don’t give a directional call. We will, however, say "Spread" to differentiate from the 2 TE package where there is no call. The “Y” is replaced by the 2nd SE and is always on the right. The “X” stays in the game and is always on the left. Our major change was to go double tight, this allowed our better counters and wide runs to develop, gave us much more gap integrity by extending length to the edge. Our spread still included a TE since we had to help different people at RG or RT for people leaving on personal matters, holiday travel, school items, etc. The rotation had one player less fit for playing OL in it and another one hurt. The help sometimes worked much more to our favor, excepting the time those two played alongside one another. We had to call plays the other way much more that day and both our losses came from their blocking breakdowns. Since we had two TE they would always line up the same, we could tag the 2nd TE on WS to play X. We called him Z or by his name(Tez) and his position being named allowed Cortez to put more of his personality and attributes into our way of playing. Since we ran slot full times prior as a way of helping identify coverage, the slot 'nomer' was used for the flanker position. That way most of the routes and concepts would be consistent with much of what we hoped to do from slot. The double tight hid our intention, we would use the slot as an h back on runs and it signaled what we wanted to do. After going double tight it stayed that way, the TE was always to the side needed, we put so many through the spot at times that people would lose where they were supposed to line up at. The power/lead series, and our buck counters, were going great from that look. We'd change the offensive emphasis in formation when teams might begin finding ways to deal with the matchups on our line. The QB was quite a good runner and we'd call "spread" and go what was in essence five wide, though it it used a TE to the side we needed our help most. So spread with a call of tight right or left would give us the 2/2 because a majority of those plays used six blockers to alleviate the blitz. The Qb was taking games over with it just about the time teams expected to contain our other backs, now they were slots and pushing the seam hard so safeties had to stay back, the QB was often running free. Examples: [glow=red,2,300]B5 Left= Splitbacks, TE Wing left [/glow] -------------Y--O--O--C--O--O---------------------X -----------Z-----------Q ------------------3---------2 This is nice, we used something similar by putting Tez in the backfield as the lead man from the bone. He was such a big pass target that teams would double him, it's hard to double a guy who can release his route inside the LOS. He was, in effect, a sniffer. We only used that in one game though, rarely had practice time to add more from it past a double lead and a crossbuck, but he would have been the perfect midline pass catcher from that, he was often double or triple teamed from his side. Another team was spying on our practices at times and the bone gave them something to prepare for and we went with our core plays instead, jumped all over them with straight ahead runs. We basically faked a scripted series on them.... [glow=red,2,300] N7 Right= FB offset Near the Z [/glow] (we offset to the Z, NOT the TE. This is for consistency when we are in 2 TE or 0 TE packages), twins left, TE right. --X-------------O--O--C--O--O--Y ------Z---------------Q ------------------2 -----------------------3 Since we were dual back the team had no reason to tag this way, the year prior my own team used I offset. Our tag was for slot, the TE lined up opposite, until we went double tight, then the flanker was termed slot. We numbered the backs even odd, first call number, hole second. My preference is to zone it and call a direction, because the play hole can change on a blitz or shift by the D and I prefer the guys to think fast on their feet and become organic in how they adjust. It was six of one, a half dozen of the other after we repped a lot on the GOOLS with interior help getting first priority and the lead or power back taking on the first target as it changed. [glow=red,2,300]I7 Spread: [/glow] --X-------------O--O--C--O--O----------------------Y ------Z---------------Q -----------------------2 -----------------------3 [glow=red,2,300]B4= Splitbacks, 2 TE, Sniffer Back on the right [/glow] -------------X--O--O--C--O--O--Y -----------------------Q-----Z ------------------3---------2 This is great. The Z tag can move around. This will be our best player, he can be all over the field. My favorite is Z to X where we can isolate him and get a sure one on one with our tallest fastest player and force their hand to double wide so we can play ten on nine to the other side or ten on eight or seven for how they line and our zone concepts. We might just create a tag for the sniffer and have an extra FB or TE, or ideally, a little player who gets few reps, and be able to hide the ball on some trick plays with this and stay within our base offense concepts. Single RB Sets: For 1 RB packages, the FB comes out and is replaced by a 2nd Z. In this case, we eliminate the use of the “Letter” to align the backfield in favor of an additional “slot number” to align the Z who has replaced the FB. So, now instead of “O7 Left,” we will have “87 Right” which puts the replacement Z in the 8 slot, the original Z in the 7 slot, the TE on the Right, and the SE on the left. We generally refer to the 2nd Z as the "H" in our diagrams. In single back sets, the single RB is always in the "home" position, as he would be in the "I." Examples: [glow=red,2,300]87 Right:[/glow] --X-------------O--O--C--O--O--Y ------Z----------------Q-------------------------------H -----------------------3 [glow=red,2,300]68 Left:[/glow] -------------Y--O--O--C--O--O-----------------------X -----------------------Q------------H-------------Z -----------------------3 [glow=red,2,300]78 Spread: [/glow] -X-------------O--O--C--O--O-----------------------Y -------H--------------Q-------------------------Z -----------------------3 There it is. We can add tags for the letter that starts some player's names as well provided they become familiar, on smaller squads. Your final spread diagram is one we used also, but the play design was not one I approved of, we wasted one and half quarters of the title game trying a play that never worked vs. split sides unless we get numbers from a 2/2 on an even front 44 or a 53 robber. The only way we got even numbers was to take one extra defender off the other side and assume it would be that way in the game. Had quite a heated discussion about that. We used it for the gun as well, and scrapped that after our only regular season loss when we spent more time fumbling than playing the next week's practice. Bringing it back for the title game against the team it didn't work against prior made little sense to me. We took the gun plan and tried the same thing on a pitch series for a halfback with no blocker on a 50 front with the end coming free.This wasn't an option either, it was in essence a pitch play with no lead blocker at an unblocked end, their best player. Apologies for my digression from the topic. For your backs, the routes, the forms, everything is set. It would of course require some additional items for what we plan. We were considering using tags for the backs in protections for numbers series to help the pass protection. Then we'd have the same numbers being used twice, as a way of telling the line who is helping, one or both, and what hole they can designate help on the play action before going to a check down. That's why I'm glad the thread isn't locked, we need to see how it is you can tag protections to the forms on this numbered set.  Once you get this, you can pretty much make any formation you want. -You can use “Gun” as a tag, and now you can get into the gun. -You can use the slot numbers to define motion as a tag. -You can shift in and out of different sets. The BEST thing about this formation system is that it is extremely multiple, but it isn’t very wordy...and it remains consistent through all of the packages you may want to install. You can keep the same formation system in place year after year and and change your primary formations as needed without “installing a new offense” or a “new terminology system.” I love it, and it works great...! This could give us a lot more variation. The plan is to try and match nomencloture with the HS program for some continuity. These kids need to get in with the program from day one and be able to accelerate their chances past the time we share with them. It's been much more fun to work with a blank slate, but the person who most likely determines their chances at the next levels is who we have to work with to a new extent. My initial year was very basic, a combo of offset I leads and powers, some IZ/OZ was planned after that but we had enough issues fielding a team some weeks, and four base passing plays that used two concepts extensively, they simply traded who did the things so each player could be a primary. Last year we actually ran less concepts than my first year, well you can count "all go" as a concept, maybe it was equal. They were working just as well, my main concept was hitting at an 80% rate and we soon changed the entire system to go routes and throwing it up for grabs. We went to about a 55% team, never got the big plays dreamed of, most of them were catches at about the ten to fifteen yards stretch in double teams with guys getting hit or the ball having plays made on it for our slots, usually on second or third and longs if we were passing a lot of the time from incompletions on early downs. Our spread worked as it was intended without throwing deep. The decicison to switch it simply put more pressure on the QB, who was already handling a lot of it. Once we got him out of the gun so he could get the ball in his hands quicker he made the right play and read every time. There wasn't much reading going on with running people looking back to the ball and never changing for coverage. Our passer just willed his way to wins in all but two cases, by running and helping the run game of his backs by using directional checks at the line. The shotgun and the halfback option with no lead blocker took the ball out of his hands, and those were our two losses, to the same team. We took a lead the second time, deep in the second half, after abandoning the trick play and going back to our core plans, but they did what champs do and won on their final possession. Again, please discuss how you describe protections in with this numbering system, it appears to be the most consistent for being able to add variety. Your posts are the best for addressing what teams need in terms of clarity to the approach for planning. The main item I see for quick install that would give our guys some issues is the switch of tags for where the TE aligns since he hears left/right and might key it in forms that are spread. We had that as well when we started to put one slot alignment to a particular side every time for our spread. A few times we tagged the TE directionally. Most likely our spread will actually become trips with TWO TE, one of whom can jet, probably our star Tez. So we'd have to call the trips side, and the blocking TE would line up opposite and Tez would be to trips side, provided on who returns and what new roles some of those players may develop into. |
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Post by tim914790 on May 30, 2008 10:14:45 GMT -6
When we were a multiple I team we called the formation in two parts
1. Backfield : I, Brown (Offset Right), Black (Offset left) or split.
2. Then we would call the rest of the formation
I Slot Right for example.
I do remember years back hearing a guy from California talk at a clinic where his formations were all 2 digit numbers the first digit was how the leftside lined up and the second digit was the right side
Eample:
1= TE and flanke
2= SE
12 would =pro left
I cannot remeber if he had seperate calls for the backfield or if they were incoorporated intot he numbers.
Know we are shotgun spread so our kids just have to remeber the formations we have 9 of them
Doubles= 2x2 run and shoot
Teds= 2x2 2 TE's and 2 flankers
Ace= 2x2 i te flanker and 1se slot
Trips
Trey
Panther: Trips Empty
Ohio= Trey Empty
Slot
CLuster or Bunch
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Post by midlineqb on May 30, 2008 12:23:03 GMT -6
When we were in the Flexbone we called our formations simply:
Shoot
Trips
Twins
Ends
Friends
Amigos
Trey
Ace
Pals
etc.
These were automatically right formations. If we wanted to set them to the left we preceded the formation with a "flip" call. This was very simple for our players to understand.
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Post by raiderpirates on Jun 1, 2008 7:24:13 GMT -6
As for tagging names to directions, I can remember kids getting mad at their teammates over those items. I called it a sprint right, it went to the right. Sprint left to the left. A kid gets incensed at his teammate midway through a play. He stops and yells at him for running left through a half speed. "You fool! HE SAID LEFT!"  So you might want to work on the right and left until they get used to which hand is right and which is left. Laser and rocket might be a bit for them. Now, line calls is another story, it sounds like it would great for audibles. |
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Post by levydisciple on Jun 5, 2008 13:11:46 GMT -6
Can someone please explain to me how series work? I know it sounds like a stupid question, but I really can't grasp this play-calling idea.
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alexn
Freshmen Member
Posts: 90
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Post by alexn on Jun 6, 2008 1:02:41 GMT -6
I've always liked using a few parent formations with simple tags telling the player(s) where to go. Example...
Rip/Liz (2 backs, 1 TE)
Ron/Lou (2 backs, 0 TE)
Add a weak/strong call to both and this moves the F (FB or slot F) to the call.
Rip/Liz wk/str (1 back, 1 TE)
Ron/Lou wk/str (1 back, o TE)
So as you can see with 2 parent sets you get an handful of useful formations and groups.
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Post by raiderpirates on Jun 7, 2008 8:22:48 GMT -6
My understanding is that a series is a set of runs from a form or to a player.
Pro series, the Paul Brown series would be an example.
50 series would go halfback and be a veriety of sweeps and complimentary plays to those, perhaps a trap, a counter to it, and even a play where Jim Brown would take a HB lead look, settle into a hole on the inside, and pitch back outside to Marion Motley who was leading out as the FB. The interior trap key and the TE's initial step influenced the play as a cut when it was designed to draw attention to their best rusher.
All in the 50 series. Sweeps, wider traps, two counter forms across the play and back outside when teams start settling inside on gaps and shoulders for shorter yardage.
The best series talk here has been on the double dive/belly/wedge series. A set of interior runs which have similar purpose, and whose presentation and technique develops a style of play, with opportunities to overpower and even fool an opponent coming right at them.
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Post by levydisciple on Jun 8, 2008 16:49:00 GMT -6
So it seems you can only have 10 plays in that series (50-59)?
Or are series marked by concept (ex. all plays called with, say, "51" as a tag are sweeps).
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Post by easye17 on Jun 8, 2008 17:35:54 GMT -6
levy - that's why I don't use series (mostly for passing series). I can come up with a ton of things to do in the passing game, but I could easily run out of numbers.
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Post by levydisciple on Jun 8, 2008 17:41:45 GMT -6
What do you use? Words? Numbered routes?
I always flip flop between those two when choosing the "best" system for play-calling.
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SetHut
Junior Member
Posts: 314
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Post by SetHut on Jun 8, 2008 21:45:46 GMT -6
You shouldn't be limited in the number of plays you can have if you use the series system. Just tag the play with the different blocking scheme. Example: Here are different ways you can block the traditional six hole--base, power (FB kicks out the DE). G (RG kicks out the DE, counter (backside guard blocks out on the DE), counter trey (BSG blocks out, BST pulls & leads), crossblock (TE blocks down, RT kicks out). There may be a few more.
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Post by throwonfirstdown on Jun 10, 2008 10:34:23 GMT -6
This is excellent material. I am a young guy just getting my feet wet, but from what I've seen so far, I like giving my personnel team names that are synonomous with those groupings and then tagging from there. What makes it easier for me is that I utilize very few split back formations (only in the gun really). For instance:
Tiger - 2 WR 1 TE 2 RB (Tiger Right 25 counter)
Bengal - 3 WR 1 TE 1 RB (Bengal Trips Right 747 or Gun Bengal Trips Right 747)
Titan - 2 WR 2 TE 1 RB (Titan Twins Left 26 stretch)
Warrior - 4WR 1 RB (Gun Warrior Trips Right 27 zone)
Vol - 3WR 2 RB (Vol Right 501 Quick)
Works for me, but I'm always open for suggestions on my evolving system. I use team names primarily because of the kids' familiarity with what they see on TV, and heck, the Madden playbooks are specialized, LOL.
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