|
Post by brophy on May 15, 2008 8:41:25 GMT -6
Feel free to delete this if this is not appropriate to discuss, however; WHY IS THIS A FEDERAL ISSUE? www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/sports/football/14specterstatement.htmlap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gqfQZ5ivFM4FzP64-dVRtZXvjjNQD90M13G80www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=411819news.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1093899&srvc=home&position=recentHere are my bullet points on this; NFL is a monopoly argument - their anti-trust exemption provides an avenue for the judicial committee to investigate possible fraudulent, colluding practices. Fine, this becomes a hyperbole-driven Sarbanes-Oxley quest for integrity. HOWEVER, this is flawed because; Statistical analysis is the foundation of coaching in the NFL. ALL game films are compiled in a DV analyzer every week, and are catalogued, so you can dial up every conceiveable scenario of a coordinator for the past decade. If the coach doesn't break their own tendencies, and become an actual strategy threat, then they are putting themselves at a competitive disadvantage = its your own fault for getting beat. Was Belichick punished for this? $500k and a first round pick Is this severe enough? Who knows....but he WAS punished. Are we trying to exercise double-jeopardy now? Is lip reading outlawed, is scripting outlawed, is watching the other coaches outlawed, are picking up signals / audibles in the game outlawed? No, video taping the signals IS illegal....and they were caught for breaking that code, and WERE punished. Is it too hard to accept that New England has thrived in a league where parity is embraced,legislated (salary-cap,draft, CBA), and designed by its founder (Rozelle) through competent Front Office practices and extremely seasoned coaches in a division that has inhabited the cellar of the league (Miami, NYJ, BUF) for the better part of a decade? It really isn't that much of a stretch in the imagination to believe that you can win in the NFL without having the biggest collection of "talent". ----------------------------------------------------------------- How do you justify this waste of a congressional year to a person who is not a fan of the NFL, football, or sports in general? Take it all the way out.....IF the NFL colludes to 'fix' games and cheat the rest of the league for the benefit of one franchise.... How am I effected? I don't work for ____team, I don't have to compete for them... I don't have to buy tickets, I don't have to buy jerseys, or even tune in on Sunday. If I'm disatisfied with the product, guess what I can do? STOP WATCHING It really isn't worth watching much from a football perspective to begin with.
|
|
|
Post by Coach Huey on May 15, 2008 9:01:05 GMT -6
comical ... media says what is an issue. people get worked up over 'issues'. politicians use 'issues' to their favor. comical ...
This is not someone breaking a LAW ... it is someone breaking a RULE. a rule within an organization not a rule within the government. it is a huge stretch to equate this breaking of a rule to some violation of any law.
to me, let the organization handle rules violators... government stick to law violators.
|
|
|
Post by spreadattack on May 15, 2008 9:31:13 GMT -6
It's not a federal issue. It's kind of bizarre how we keep bringing it up. But the only thing I agree with re: Specter is I've found it bizarre how the ESPN types have all kowtowed to whatever the NFL says. They come up with a company line, and here comes John Clayton and Chris Mortensen to report it as their "opinion." And it's obvious why they would do this: they rely on the NFL for their weekly info for who is hurt, what is going on here or there, so why would they bite the hand that feeds them?
It's just a reminder that outfits like ESPN which do a good job of presenting sports and making them entertaining are not reliable as reporting outfits. Too often they feel like they are insular and they are the only ones reporting a story, so they can adjust it as they see fit (always with a pro-sport bias, save for a few fall guys). Then the major media publications will often catch them with a slightly skewed story.
The problem with that is that it should be places like ESPN who have the specialized knowledge to really capture the stories, whereas generalist newspapers/etc can't be expected to always get it right, yet, like I said, ESPN too often shows its bias. This coupled with the death of Sports Illustrated as a legitimate journalistic source (trying to be more like a Maxim magazine or something), sports reporting is basically terrible.
So for something like this, all of Spygate, I don't know what to say because every side is so self-serving. The Patriots refuse to even admit guilt, the NFL has its line which ESPN follows, Walsh is a disgruntled employee, and Specter is doing god knows what. It's frustrating.
|
|
|
Post by leighty on May 15, 2008 10:01:08 GMT -6
It's got something to do with the NFL's antitrust exemption.
What I find fascinating is Spector is described in the New York Times as a "longtime Philadelphia Eagles fan." I don't have to tell you the Patriots defeated the Eagles in Super Bowl 39. Spector has also accepted campaign contributions from Comcast. Comcast is currently fueding with the NFL over, among other things, the NFL Sunday Ticket package. While I would like to believe the Senator is doing all this for the good of professional football, he is a politician.
|
|
|
Post by brophy on May 15, 2008 10:15:23 GMT -6
It's got something to do with the NFL's antitrust exemption. What I find fascinating is Spector is described in the New York Times as a "longtime Philadelphia Eagles fan." I don't have to tell you the Patriots defeated the Eagles in Super Bowl 39. Spector has also accepted campaign contributions from Comcast. Comcast is currently fueding with the NFL over, among other things, the NFL Sunday Ticket package. While I would like to believe the Senator is doing all this for the good of professional football, he is a politician. If the senator really cared about his constituents, he'd be doing a shot and a beer. And we wonder why our kids today are "stoopid".
|
|
|
Post by brophy on May 15, 2008 11:56:43 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by airman on May 15, 2008 14:52:05 GMT -6
Spector is a big comand and control guy. Why the republican party allows him to be a member is another reason. I lost all respect for him when he helped a woman beater, who eventually killed the woman escape from the US to europe where is was on the lamb for like 25 years.
|
|
|
Post by raiderpirates on May 15, 2008 15:00:25 GMT -6
Blocking wireless frequencies for the opposition headsets also effected cell phones of fans at the games, other items, an FCC violation. Specter is keeping them out of it by keeping it under the aims of Mr.Magic Bullet and his committee.
It's plausible cover for the Fay Vincent's baby as well, the juiced up world of juiced up baseballs and players.
|
|
|
Post by phantom on May 15, 2008 15:45:43 GMT -6
It's not a federal issue. It's kind of bizarre how we keep bringing it up. But the only thing I agree with re: Specter is I've found it bizarre how the ESPN types have all kowtowed to whatever the NFL says. They come up with a company line, and here comes John Clayton and Chris Mortensen to report it as their "opinion." And it's obvious why they would do this: they rely on the NFL for their weekly info for who is hurt, what is going on here or there, so why would they bite the hand that feeds them? It's just a reminder that outfits like ESPN which do a good job of presenting sports and making them entertaining are not reliable as reporting outfits. Too often they feel like they are insular and they are the only ones reporting a story, so they can adjust it as they see fit (always with a pro-sport bias, save for a few fall guys). Then the major media publications will often catch them with a slightly skewed story. The problem with that is that it should be places like ESPN who have the specialized knowledge to really capture the stories, whereas generalist newspapers/etc can't be expected to always get it right, yet, like I said, ESPN too often shows its bias. This coupled with the death of Sports Illustrated as a legitimate journalistic source (trying to be more like a Maxim magazine or something), sports reporting is basically terrible. So for something like this, all of Spygate, I don't know what to say because every side is so self-serving. The Patriots refuse to even admit guilt, the NFL has its line which ESPN follows, Walsh is a disgruntled employee, and Specter is doing god knows what. It's frustrating. The media is on it because it's news. The best NFL team over the past few years cheated. It's news. Reporting news is their job. They'd pretty much pronounced it dead when Spector got involved. Why is Spector involved? Good question. As a taxpayer I'm gratified to see that the NFL is one of the federal government's biggest problems.
|
|
|
Post by brophy on May 15, 2008 16:19:02 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by Yash on May 15, 2008 16:23:50 GMT -6
This is a little off topic, but Brophy, you might actually be google. How else would you find all of these pictures, stats, links, and all of the info you post on here. I"m not complaining I really enjoy it, but I think that you might actually be google.
|
|
|
Post by raiderpirates on May 15, 2008 16:46:47 GMT -6
Maybe the Comcast stock fixing items should be of greater concern to snarlin' Arlen. "Feb 25, 2008 ... Comcast Scandal! Admits to Paying Seat Fillers to Keep Public Out of FCC Hearing."
Can we have tickets to the big game, or the big hearing? "Both." -Comcast
|
|
|
Post by tog on May 15, 2008 17:41:10 GMT -6
arlen is a doofus socialist loser
|
|
|
Post by leighty on May 15, 2008 19:39:33 GMT -6
Blocking wireless frequencies for the opposition headsets also effected cell phones of fans at the games, other items, an FCC violation. Specter is keeping them out of it by keeping it under the aims of Mr.Magic Bullet and his committee. It's plausible cover for the Fay Vincent's baby as well, the juiced up world of juiced up baseballs and players. I don't know where you get your information. The Patriots have never been found guilty of any violations other than the taping scandal.
|
|
|
Post by raiderpirates on May 16, 2008 0:51:41 GMT -6
Yeah, and Goodell stood next to Mike Vick on draft day a year ago.
Goodell is a knob polisher, nothing more.
|
|
|
Post by leighty on May 16, 2008 1:51:44 GMT -6
Yeah, and Goodell stood next to Mike Vick on draft day a year ago. Goodell is a knob polisher, nothing more. WTF are you talking about? Are you another one of those conspiracy theorists?
|
|
|
Post by groundchuck on May 16, 2008 7:20:16 GMT -6
Spector wants his 15 minutes of fame on ESPN like the MLB steroid investigation guys.
Not a federal issue. What is he going to do recommend the Patriots lose another draft pick and fine Bellicheck again?
If Spector wants to make a name for himself in the news right now figure out how to lower the price of a gallon of gas.
|
|
|
Post by coach4life on May 16, 2008 11:23:56 GMT -6
Like most of our current "leadership" in the Congress, do not get caught between him (or many others I could name but its not worth the time) and a camera, your injuries could be severe.
|
|
|
Post by brophy on May 16, 2008 11:31:04 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on May 16, 2008 12:16:58 GMT -6
IMHO they have more pressing issues than spending time on a sports game.
|
|
|
Post by groundchuck on May 16, 2008 12:23:39 GMT -6
Pretty soon they'll want to investigate why the Bears won't cut ties with Rex Grossman.
|
|
|
Post by spreadattack on May 16, 2008 13:44:52 GMT -6
The Adams guy is interesting. How big was his role in this? Do we know?
|
|
|
Post by brophy on May 16, 2008 14:01:18 GMT -6
The Adams guy is interesting. How big was his role in this? Do we know? the ESPN link has a pretty interesting take on it......he is essentially the "thinking component" liason that interfaces the VC's, Scouts, and HC. That article 'fills in the blanks' on what he did and probably does now. The article essentially infers the tapes were made for him. He was the spotter in the booth watching the signals during the live games (having watched the signals previously) and relaying that to Belichick. In the book, "Patriot Reign", released after they beat the Panthers, it mentions Belichick and Crennel being able to correctly surmise the coming play in most games....that was based on tendencies, formations, and personnel groupings. The book mentioned that if the two were wrong more than 5 times a game, then it was a surprise...... I remember reading that and saying, "DANG! I need to watch more film!". However, about the same time (leading up to that SB), there was a 60 minutes piece on Belichick AND John Fox. It was pretty much a big expose on the life of a coach and it had Fox going through the DV analyzers and dialing up every scenario from any team in the league. So, I believe it IS possible to "know" an opposing coordinator - it isn't that far of a stretch. www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/16/60minutes/main643894.shtmlgadgetopia.com/post/2984[gvid]-2383955895915080209[/gvid] Point is ....all of us, as coaches, need to tap into as much INFORMATION (data that is the absence of doubt) as possible to be effective and increase our chances for success on game day as well as in our method of teaching.
|
|
|
Post by raiderpirates on May 16, 2008 14:59:27 GMT -6
There's database software that can track play calls as well and it ends up being pretty close to most situations.
Being wrong five times a game would apply to certain situational calls for the set and form, on average teams have five to six plays they could call, five plays wrong would be a 20% difference range which would take into account the expectation most of those match ups would be predicated on the least effective cover pairing.
See also Simoneau's side of the field being thrown at the entire second half the Super Bowl.
Sometimes it isn't about guesswork after all....
|
|
|
Post by coachbb on May 16, 2008 15:59:49 GMT -6
The reason Spector is doing this is the same reason why Congress called baseball representatives before Congress... to attract media attention to themselves. Only this time, there is no clear Congressional issue. But, hey, how many more people have heard of Arlen Spector?
|
|
|
Post by raiderpirates on May 16, 2008 18:21:07 GMT -6
The Jets could lose a first round pick, or do the usual item of picking someone in the first round who shouldn't be a first rounder.
|
|
drift
Probationary Member
Posts: 14
|
Post by drift on May 16, 2008 22:22:56 GMT -6
This is really a more compelling problem....
"Pretty soon they'll want to investigate why the Bears won't cut ties with Rex Grossman."
THIS isn't..... As to what the Patriots did or didn't do... the taping is breaking a RULE so there is a penalty. BUT, you're not supposed to be stealing signs from the opposing sideline either. Can anyone on this board tell me they AREN'T guilty of this???
|
|
|
Post by CoachDaniel on May 17, 2008 0:04:04 GMT -6
Why haven't the Bears cut ties with Rex Grossman? Seriously...has this been addressed?
Is there a rule on HS coaches videotaping signals/practices/etc.? Alright, so lets get some 0-10 team to videotape their opponents every move. If they win the State the next year, then I'm convinced. Otherwise, the Patriots are good, and found an opportunity to get an edge. Illegal, but not earth shattering. But they are fun to watch, and the NFL is a business (I'm a Falcons fan.. I despise the NFL right now)
|
|
|
Post by raiderpirates on May 17, 2008 15:46:06 GMT -6
Blocking opposing headset frequencies is all right, even if it messes up the network announcer's wireless headset and mic?
Okay then.
|
|
|
Post by brophy on May 17, 2008 15:54:21 GMT -6
raiderpirates - I think what he was asking was citing your source for that allegation.
----------------------------- CBS NEWS Eye To Eye: Bill Belichick
|
|