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Post by brophy on May 7, 2008 12:27:39 GMT -6
in an 8 min game, how many snaps do you typically get in a youth game?
I'm thinking the 30 range (?)....which really isn't much. With so fewer snaps / opportunities is there a desire / game plan to get MORE. Or is the general consensus to get LESS (and get the game over fast)?
Lets say you get _____ amount of snaps in a game, do you game plan / script those opportunities and how does a coach manage those (more plays, a few plays multiplied, never punt, etc).
How diverse is the youth coach's philosophy of managing a truncated game?
Do you purposely go no-huddle to increase the chances? Do you purposely huddle to limit the chances? Do you purposely go fast-tempo to increase the chance even more?
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Post by morris on May 7, 2008 12:58:15 GMT -6
We average around 35-37 plays a game when running the power I. We did not try to run at a extreme pace but often we would have a play in, called and snapped within about 10 sec off the game clock. We also bring a ton of pressure so other teams tend to throw to get back into the game.
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Post by coachdoug on May 7, 2008 13:14:34 GMT -6
in an 8 min game, how many snaps do you typically get in a youth game? I'm thinking the 30 range (?)....which really isn't much. With so fewer snaps / opportunities is there a desire / game plan to get MORE. Or is the general consensus to get LESS (and get the game over fast)? Lets say you get _____ amount of snaps in a game, do you game plan / script those opportunities and how does a coach manage those (more plays, a few plays multiplied, never punt, etc). How diverse is the youth coach's philosophy of managing a truncated game? Do you purposely go no-huddle to increase the chances? Do you purposely huddle to limit the chances? Do you purposely go fast-tempo to increase the chance even more? Here are the metrics I've experienced over the years. Note: we play 10 minute quarters with standard timing rules except that they wind the clock on the chop after change of possession. So, reduce everything by about 15-20% for 8 minute quarters and all standard timing. Average Plays Per Game: 90-100 total Average Offensive Plays Per Game: 37-43 Average Defensive Plays Per Game: 37-43 Average Spec Teams Plays Per Game: 15-20 Average # of Scores per Game: 6 (this varies widely from game to game - I only reference it to show how you get that many special teams plays - 8 kickoffs plus 6 PATs plus 2-6 punts) Average # of possessions per Game: 8 Obviously there is a fair amount of deviation from the mean and blowouts, turnovers, etc. will skew the numbers, but most games will fall within about 10% in either direction of the numbers I gave. Also - teams that throw a lot get a lot more plays in (probably 10-20% more) because they tend to stop the clock a lot more. Your estimate of about 30 plays on each side of the ball for games with 8 minute quarters is probably about right - maybe more like 33 or 34. In general, I like to go up tempo (I've even gone no-huddle at times in the past) as much as possible, to get more plays in, for no other reason than to get the MPR requirements done. After all my MPPs are done, then we may slow down by game plan if we know we're overmatched (may even do that from the opening gun if we know our only chance is to shorten the game, keep the score low and try to make a break with a turnover). So, we like to get a lot of snaps in (especially early) to get our minimum plays done. Separately, we may game plan to go either up tempo or slow tempo depending on our opponent. Generally, though, we just play our game and only change tempo depending on game situations (2-minute drill or slow down with a small lead late in the game).
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Post by davecisar on May 7, 2008 13:21:12 GMT -6
Ive never coached 8 minute quarters. In 10 minute "no mercy rule" games with no running clock we average about 55 offensive snaps. We run no huddle and it is not a rapid pace, but we are at the LOS getting plays off without a huge wast of time.
If you are better than or equal to the other team we are trying to maximize possessions, more snaps.
If we are severly outmatched we use up the entire 25 second clock, every snap ( unless before half or end of game scoring opp)
Our main reason for going no huddle has been to get the kids more snaps. more snaps = more playing time = more fun. We tell the other coaches we are going no huddle, not meant to catch anyone off-guard, meant to get more playing time for the kids.
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Post by raiderpirates on May 7, 2008 14:22:26 GMT -6
We usually had it set where we could go three play calls per huddle and keep running if the plays were clicking along effectively. After that third play call he can always cycle through checkdowns and directional calls(did so often in practice, almost never in real games).
We got most of our MPP in on defense by building leads off the tempo. Then our starters got to take turns being coaches on defense between substitutions, they were very enthusiastic about seeing the others get reps.
My preference for MPP is to get them some specialized reps, new forms, etc. That way you can tailor some reps to their skills.
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Post by los on May 7, 2008 20:43:21 GMT -6
When I started coaching....the league we played in was 6 min. qtrs for the little guys(8-10) and 8 min. qtrs. for the older group (11-12), we later changed it to 8 and 10 min qtrs......those 6 min. qtrs just zoomed by too fast......regular clock....just like a HS game....we had no "mercy rule", but the teams were usually fairly evenly matched.....and were always fairly close games......I think thats pretty close Brophy? = somewhere between 35 - 45 offensive plays.....we always huddled....some years we could signal in the play.....other years, the QB just trotted over close and got the play......or we sent it in with players rotating in and out......nothing real speedy... but also....never really tried to slow the game pace down/ or eat clock......with the exception of "strategic neccessity", like right before the half, really deep in our end.....or at the end of a close game(if you're ahead)... stuff like that.....mostly just tried to keep a steady pace.....and use timeouts strategically. I will say, since the emphasis here was more on defense,(as far as playing the better players) for "most" of the teams we played(including ours)....the average offensive production, relative to being successful in most games, was kinda like this......1 score = fair.....make the pat = good enough to win half your games......2 scores = very good....make both pats = awesome, you're gonna win 75% of the games.....3 scores = excellent.....make all three pat's = super awesome....you'll win 95% of your games....4 scores = you....my friend....are a friggin offensive genius, lol.....make all 4 pat's = unbelievable....you just won all your games this year.....check your mail.... cause those job offers from all the big hs and major college teams will be coming in.... any day now.......promise......I wouldn't lie
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Post by los on May 7, 2008 22:22:14 GMT -6
Sorry Brophy.....got a little silly there at the end......trying to look up "truncated" in the dictionary.....kinda blew my mind. Far as, game planning/scripting......you can do it "some" in youth ball....provided you kinda know what to expect?.....during a regular season, we usually played each team twice and at least one of them, 3 times, for an average 8-10 game schedule.....since teams changed coach's, schemes, players....like they changed socks.....that 1st game, you played each team.....was a learning experience from the 1st kick-off.....I mean.....by the time you play the 1st game.....you "kinda know", what "you" do best.....but won't know exactly what will work....till the game is underway a bit.....they may have a big kid named "bubba" playing nose...teeing off on your center every play, destroying the snap exchange/handoff timing, etc...?......or a couple dominate kids in the off-tackle area, shutting down your "best" play there?.....just whatever?.....yeah, I wanna know what front they're playing, what coverage, etc... but it's more about personnel match-ups early....then later, who's "not" playing their position properly, in whatever scheme they're using?.....so sure.....you could script plays to "probe" these multiple areas, early in the game, run them off in rapid succession.....see what works, for future reference......then go back to it.....so....because of this "feeling out" process..... yes.....we punted waaay more in the 1st half....than the 2nd..... After we played each team once, we could then come up with a "legitimate", game plan
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Post by raiderpirates on May 8, 2008 15:39:09 GMT -6
2.5 possessions per quarter. If we three and out or they do then that increases.
Using our no huddle into the second quarter and on the first scripted possession usually adds a couple of possessions per team to the plan.
Clock runs in the second half most of the games, it's why my preference is to treat the first half like the game's end when it comes to the notion of urgency. We were down enough to close the gap on those types of leads and bring the clock back down the few times we trailed by more than a score.
My preference is reps, regardless of the scoreboard. More plays for both teams, more reps so I can get everyone some meaningful snaps. Everyone from the city teams will be on the same team in one or two years, reps are important for long term development, it details game management just as much. The two teams who tried to slow us down like that we scored on, one with six seconds left in the half and the other with about forty seconds left. I almost got them into the red zone with 26 seconds left in the game I got to call plays, we had three shots at the end zone on the effort anyways. I'd use time outs just to emphasize that you had better not assume the clock was on your side and that we couldn't move the ball, many teams would let an opposing team run it down when leading.
We'd always script at least the first four to five plays when we reviewed our best scoring efforts. The original wristband contained almost no cohesive call order to it, just random plays thrown together. After the game this was used I had us use series or groupings for players/call sides to it and it really accelerated what we could do. Then my QB could be told to choose from three plays we selected off a grouping of plays or to pick the first of a series and go through it from that starting point.
A lot of the times I'd just see how they developed their front and send in four plays in a row for one message when we huddled near so we could get the plays out in time. The first time I did that we scored 3 of four plays, two touchdowns, a two pointer, and a six yard gain in four calls.
The scores broke the game open, we'd gotten into the red zone three drives before(result of special teams return, a defensive turnover, and our first possession on scripted runs) and kept floundering on trick play calls, etc that were used in the red zone. Their team was undefeated at the time and playing well, we were fortunate to have kept them on one side of the field for so long.
Don't leave what works until they stop it or change fronts to match a call you would anticipate.
Adding no huddle and scripted reps for at least two series per half will increase your possessions and usually produce better results in those possessions. Done well it can shape the way that a half ends so you leave the field on a score. If your system has audibles, line checks, where a QB can change the play if the defense is where it is going, by all means use the tempo to let that player command the game.
If the defense is playing well it will build on what the tempo produces for your offense, and usually add about four possessions per half, two for your team, with field position from your defense being based on what they do. If they can't get far into the playbook then you need with yours, to in terms of tempo.
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Post by los on May 8, 2008 20:42:24 GMT -6
This is probably straying from Brophy's original post, but....it does have to do with play calling and stuff......you know raiderpirates....I use to think this exclusively also..."Don't leave what works until they stop it"......but, as I got older, as a "youth coach", and determined (right or wrong), that the "main" reason "they" couldn't stop it, was because, we had a great player/players "mismatch" in a certain area.....and "if" we wore out our welcome there...... it wouldn't take very long, before joey and scottie, were on the bench.......and Billy Bob and Big Lucious were taking their place......then so long....ace in the hole...."5 yards, whenever we need it"....play? Its like....."offensively speaking".....I didn't want, "their best"....playing against "my best"....too easy to have a stalemate there......I wanted their best guys against my weakest(even if they were kicking the crap out of us there)......then, just stay away from them, or run a "token" play that way occasionally, to keep "them" honest..... and operate nicely elsewhere.....so while I do agree in taking advantage of something thats open.....I've gotten away from trying to "wear it out"....too early in the game......always seemed to turn around and bite me in the rear ?
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Post by raiderpirates on May 9, 2008 6:49:46 GMT -6
We ran split backs and both were great, one more durable, the other faster. The line was solid almost all year as well. Some formation changes were required, and a hurt player was kept in every down late, at a new position, and it affected chemistry with his replacement to some extent until we switched out the starters and put a true lineman back in on the line and allowed the replacement to return to the end rotation.
Every play was a five yard play against their base defense, unless they blitzed. They changed the front and I installed three plays to run off each front, he would look to those on his armbands and call them as a series the first time he saw the new look.
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