jamesmthomson
Sophomore Member
www.lakewoodfootball.com
Posts: 176
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Post by jamesmthomson on Apr 28, 2008 21:36:53 GMT -6
Question:
How many of you guys do a legit hell week/double days/three-a-days, etc?
The rule in California, where I am, is that you have to give kids at least three weeks totally off from football and that they have to have, I believe, two days of conditioning before you can start hitting in full gear. The way it has usually been done and the way that we still do it is to have a "non-contact" summer camp in the first part of summer until late July or so, then bring them back mid-August for about a week and a half of double days before lightening up in preparation for our first game.
The reason I ask is this: It seems like a lot of teams are getting more creative or open-minded about how they prepare for the season. Some teams in CA, I believe, give kids their dead period early and do football the rest of the summer, break it up, etc. Anyone else do something non-traditional in their schedule or approach to summer?
The longer I have coached I have started to believe that hell week(s) and such are so much about survival that kids may not be learning and getting better as much as one would hope but rather they are just trying to get through it--especially the big guys, whom I coach.
Like everyone else, I just want to get our kids as ready for the season as possible and am wondering what the best way to do that is. In 2008 is there a better approach? I am just looking for opinions on the subject from those who have them.
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Post by coachbdud on Apr 28, 2008 21:55:22 GMT -6
this is not the way for all of CA.
each section is different
NCS has gotten rid of all summer rules. You can do anything you want from first day of summer to a August 18th this year
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jamesmthomson
Sophomore Member
www.lakewoodfootball.com
Posts: 176
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Post by jamesmthomson on Apr 28, 2008 22:51:13 GMT -6
Really? Man, I am coaching in the wrong section  |
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Post by leighty on Apr 28, 2008 23:29:48 GMT -6
"Hell Week" is overrated. Just practice football.
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Post by coachbdud on Apr 28, 2008 23:38:12 GMT -6
"Hell Week" is overrated. Just practice football. i agree, you do need to do some "toughening" and "conditioning" of the players. but it doesnt have to be as hard as many think. they overall goal is to get better at football. I have seen teams get worked so hard in hell week that they had nothing left for their first game. Hell week was that brutal on them. Get them in shape, test them mentally, and physiaclly. But improve performance |
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Post by goldenbear76 on Apr 29, 2008 1:16:46 GMT -6
Totally agree with coachbdud, I'll add, "Hell Week" is the ultimate teaching week. Thats the week, where you get your kids doing things the RIGHT way from the first day. Its the week, where you don't let a kid get away with cheating on a drill, or his footwork. You make them do it over and over till they "got it!" (To a point of course). Most important time of the football season imho, because you get the new kids learning the fundamentals of football, and the older kids perfecting them. (though as coaches we can agree..perfection is not attainable hah).
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Post by leighty on Apr 29, 2008 1:56:00 GMT -6
I think if you feel you have to beat your team down in the name of physically challenging/conditioning, then your off-season program has been a waste.
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Post by rideanddecide on Apr 29, 2008 11:24:50 GMT -6
I think if you feel you have to beat your team down in the name of physically challenging/conditioning, then your off-season program has been a waste. Yes. Plus I hate the term "Hell Week". Why not "Pride Week" or "Mascot Name Week"? Sends a more positive message. |
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jamesmthomson
Sophomore Member
www.lakewoodfootball.com
Posts: 176
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Post by jamesmthomson on Apr 29, 2008 11:39:20 GMT -6
Interesting points, especially on the off-season being a waste if you have to use your hell week for toughening kids up, etc.
That being said, beyond just the philosophy part of it, what do you guys actually do during this time? How many double days do you have? How many in a row? When do you start to ease off?
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Post by hsrose on Apr 29, 2008 13:08:39 GMT -6
NCS - After the final hole of the men's golf championship the NCS basically shuts off/goes away/hibernates until the 08/18 date. We could have 2xday in full pads for the full summer if we wanted. No restrictions on equipment, players, coaches, hours, etc. We could organize scrimmages, etc. It's really strange when compared to the other schools I see here.
Now, do something during school and the s*** flies.
The concept of hell week, to me anyway, is a carryover from the old (as in me) days when everyone did whatever they wanted all summer and then showed up and everyone had to get in shape in a short time. Now days we're working all summer in preparation for the start of fall practice. Hell week has lost the meaning when they've been running and lifting all summer, putting in plays, passing leagues, etc.
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Post by phantom on Apr 29, 2008 14:27:30 GMT -6
Other than pledging I've never heard the term "hell week". What is it?
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Post by airman on Apr 29, 2008 17:11:21 GMT -6
in wisconsin where we have no spring and summer practice the first week is often used as a hell week style. in wisconsin you cannot for a kid to come to summer weights/conditioning, nor can you hold it against him making the team.
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Post by leighty on Apr 29, 2008 18:26:45 GMT -6
in wisconsin you cannot for a kid to come to summer weights/conditioning, nor can you hold it against him making the team. There are ways around that. |
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Post by wingtol on Apr 29, 2008 18:34:28 GMT -6
Other than pledging I've never heard the term "hell week". What is it? Yeah me to just wondering about this "hell week" We have always had two weeks of two-a-days or three-a-days in full pads then week one. We have a month of work outs in helmets before we put on the pads. Is hell week like a week of extreme conditioning? or is it in full pads? just another name for two-a-days? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2008 19:32:35 GMT -6
Hell Week is another term for two-a-days mainly.
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Post by airman on Apr 29, 2008 23:14:37 GMT -6
in wisconsin you cannot for a kid to come to summer weights/conditioning, nor can you hold it against him making the team. There are ways around that. what are the ways? |
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jamesmthomson
Sophomore Member
www.lakewoodfootball.com
Posts: 176
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Post by jamesmthomson on Apr 30, 2008 0:14:52 GMT -6
Interesting--the term hell week was always something I had heard since I started playing at 7-years-old here in California. I assumed it was universal. Maybe it's just a regional term. Basically no different than 2-a-days. I suppose it probably comes from the rules that are in CA (and I'm sure other places as well) which often state that you have to go through several practices of "conditioning" without pads before you can put them on.
I do agree with a lot of the people on here, though. We work our kids 5 days a week in the off-season and work them hard. I am talking nearly 2 hours a day starting before Christmas. As soon as summer starts we are working our tails on outside o pads for at least two hours a day and that isn't including passing leagues, lineman competitions, etc. I am sure there are schools out there that go at it harder than we do, but not many. Every transfer we get goes through a "shell-shock" period of adjustment to our off-season program.
That being said, they get what our section mandates as a three week dead period totally away from football. They cannot have any contact with coaches. Do we encourage them to lift? Of course. Do we try to organize kids with phone numbers, workout schedules, phone trees, etc? Absolutely. Then we bring them back about three weeks before our first game and we work their ass with double days. Personally, as I said before, I feel like it is overkill. As someone else said, a tough guy, old school throwback, and not in a good way.
As I told our head coach at one point last year, it's not the number of reps we get, it's the speed and tempo and quality of the reps we get and our reps aren't of a high quality when kids are in survival mode.
What I am most curious about is how you guys balance building toughness with teaching and learning during this time.
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Post by rideanddecide on Apr 30, 2008 6:16:49 GMT -6
There are ways around that. what are the ways? Being from Wisconsin myself I thought I could help with this one... We are a small school (300 enrollment). I told the kids they were going to lift and that is the only way they could begin to win football games. Luckily in our situation this led to the teams first winning season and a playoff berth so that clearly helped. Also, every meeting with athletes and parents I tell them why they are going to lift AND I tell them that I cannot legally hold anything against them if they choose not to. BUT, they need to look around and see who is lifting. If Jimmy and Joey play the same position and Jimmy lifts, then I don't want to hear from Joey or Joey's parents about why he's not on the field. I've also equated it to school. If Jimmy and Joey are in the same class and Jimmy studies for every exam and works at all his homework, but Joey doesn't do anything because he has to work, is to lazy, gets good enough grades without it, etc... Who do you expect to do better in the class? This offseason we've had an 85% attendance rate. That is based on non sport athletes lifting 4 times/week and in season athletes lifting 2x/week. In our quarterly newsletters I include the names of the athletes that have lifted more times than the team average. I also include this informatin at our spring parents meeting and ask, "If your son isn't on this list, why?" |
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Post by kylem56 on Apr 30, 2008 8:32:41 GMT -6
does anyone do their 2 a days like colleges do with the 2 practices-1 practice / meetings -2 practice format ?
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bigcroz
Junior Member
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Post by bigcroz on Apr 30, 2008 8:57:45 GMT -6
Airman
In Mi we cannot make workouts mandatory or hold them against the kids. However, what I do is to hand out the schedule for the first week of practice (which is team camp for us...3 practices and 3 meetings each day) at the spring parent meeting. Included in that schedule is a MANDATORY 1 hour conditioning period after the third practice of the day. I REWARD the kids that had 85% attendance to summer workouts by excusing them from this conditioning period. First year there were alot of kids at conditioning during camp now very very few.
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Post by leighty on Apr 30, 2008 10:29:15 GMT -6
There are ways around that. what are the ways? Like bigcroz said, tell them that whatever punishment you've dreamed up for missing summer workouts is mandatory. Those who come to a satisfactory number of sessions are excused. |
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Post by airman on Apr 30, 2008 17:21:43 GMT -6
Airman In Mi we cannot make workouts mandatory or hold them against the kids. However, what I do is to hand out the schedule for the first week of practice (which is team camp for us...3 practices and 3 meetings each day) at the spring parent meeting. Included in that schedule is a MANDATORY 1 hour conditioning period after the third practice of the day. I REWARD the kids that had 85% attendance to summer workouts by excusing them from this conditioning period. First year there were alot of kids at conditioning during camp now very very few. your method is interesting. I still think it would be against the WIAA rules in Wisconsin. |
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Post by phantom on Apr 30, 2008 18:54:12 GMT -6
Hell Week is another term for two-a-days mainly. So it's the first week of 2-a-days, the conditioning week without pads? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2008 20:29:09 GMT -6
In IL, a team must go three days without full pads. Every team I've coached with has done two practices a day during this stretch; we just can't go pads. From the fourth day on, we can go full gear. Most kids and coaches in IL refer to the whole two-a-day process as "hell week".
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Post by phantom on May 1, 2008 16:08:42 GMT -6
We're required to condition without pads for the first week of 2-a-days. When we get the pads on we continue 2-a-days for at least another week.
We don't do much different during the no-pads days then we do for the rest. We don't feel that we have time to waste killing kids when we could be learning football. As others have mentioned, we've just spent seven months conditioning. It's a vestige of the days when the coach didn't see his players from November to August.
On a related note we used to spend the first day in pads doing "toughness" drills like Nutcracker and the like. A few years ago we decided that it was also a waste of time. We now use football practice strictly practicing football.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2008 16:29:41 GMT -6
I'm in agreement with you. I personally think two-a-days are a thing of the past. There is no excuse for NFL teams to do them with OTAs and five or six weeks of camp before the first regular season game.
Even at the high school level, I think the need for two-a-days is becoming less and less. In IL, we get 25 contact days which can be full gear, then have to go no pads for three days. Doesn't make sense to me. I can see why states without summer ball would need two-a-days, but I think those states are becoming fewer and fewer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2008 17:32:06 GMT -6
Does anyone on here avoid two-a-days altogether and simply practice once per day in the pre-season by choice?
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Post by phantom on May 1, 2008 18:23:34 GMT -6
I'm in agreement with you. I personally think two-a-days are a thing of the past. There is no excuse for NFL teams to do them with OTAs and five or six weeks of camp before the first regular season game. Even at the high school level, I think the need for two-a-days is becoming less and less. In IL, we get 25 contact days which can be full gear, then have to go no pads for three days. Doesn't make sense to me. I can see why states without summer ball would need two-a-days, but I think those states are becoming fewer and fewer. Wait a minute. I never said that we don't have 2-a-days. I just said that we don't waste time hammering the kids. In our state we can't do football during the summer. |
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Post by rideanddecide on May 2, 2008 8:50:29 GMT -6
Does anyone on here avoid two-a-days altogether and simply practice once per day in the pre-season by choice? We do, kind of. Practice 8-1. We are a co-op program so we have 10 kids that have to bus 30 minutes to and from practice each day. So, a typical day is: 8-10 O or D focus 10-11: Break, lift, meetings, eat something, get off your feet, etc.. 11-1: Opposite the morning + Special Teams We used to do AM and PM practice, but I've found the tempo is much better in this set up than coming back at night. |
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Post by airman on May 2, 2008 12:00:57 GMT -6
I peronally like 4 shorter practices with 1 hour breaks for the first 4 days of football. on the fifth day practice in the moring and under the lights on friday night have a practice game.
practices are 1hr and 30 min Offense in the morning, then special teams, then defense, then special teams again. by doing this I get every kid into a game and we have no bad special teams play with reserves.
if you platoon your defense and offense get two pratices a day. I am a huge believer that special teams win games. special teams are the only time you do not control the ball persay. you are in the moment of transfering the ball to the other team so you have no control over it.
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