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Post by cqmiller on Apr 25, 2008 11:22:38 GMT -6
as much as i don't like pro ball....i do watch the draft...... friend of mine is a dolphins fan......i thought he was gonna drink himself to death when the dolphins passed on quinn last year..... Seriously I almost jump off my balcony!!!! I mean seriously its been 8 YEARS since they had a actual starting QB!!!! I like Ted Ginn Jr., think he's going to be a solid if not good WR, don't know if I like him as the #8 pick with a foot injury. This year it seems that everyone believes that you can still get a quality QB in the 2nd round so why not save some money get one then..... all though I'm still not sure they'll take one at all. umm... didn't they take Beck from BYU in the second last year? If they think he can get the job done with some improvements around him, then build up the OL & DL and get him some weapons (Ronnie Brown, Ted Ginn)... With Parcels in charge, they will turn it around.
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Post by brophy on Apr 25, 2008 18:58:02 GMT -6
"Yea, Boi!!!....I'm goin' to Nawlins!!!"
What? That was only a rumor?...."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2008 19:44:32 GMT -6
With the draft, I watch most of the first round, but then wait until Day 2 to watch more. By then, most teams have made a minimum of two picks and the commentators have a bit more to talk about. I do go to nfl.com to see every single Bears pick, though.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 26, 2008 19:55:43 GMT -6
to be contrarian..I enjoy the draft,solely because of the fanboy behavior it leads to. I find it hilarious reading/seeing fan reactions. I love seeing fans evaluating things based off of such limited or no information and expertise.
I find it so humorous to read about teams "upgrading" or solidifying parts of their team in the draft without using the most important word. POTENTIALLY. For Example...this is from a Saintsfan board "I would grade day one with an 9.0 [out of 10]. Ellis was a great pick and we actually got more in return thatn I thought we would (the 5th). The Porter pick is a good one as well. This kid is super fast and makes plays. While he will struggle to learn the playbook, he will make up for that deficiency through his play on special teams. Saints fans are going to like Porter's ball hawking ability and his knack for making big plays. He isn't perfect, but he was a great pick at #40."
Yeah...and hey base any of this on....
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Post by cqmiller on Apr 27, 2008 12:41:30 GMT -6
I love reading the emails that ESPN displays on the side of the screen... EVERY time a team takes an OL, the fans KILL the team! I just laugh... Makes me wonder what the parents are saying/thinking about what we do on Fridays!
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Post by vassdiddy on Apr 27, 2008 12:52:33 GMT -6
One of my best friends, Dwight Lowery, just got picked by the Jets. He became my good friend (first real friend I made) when I moved to San Jose and was the Assistant Video Coordinator at SJSU. I am rambling, I know.. I am just so excited for him.. It's one thing to read these stories about guys and it's another to live through it with him... Plus, I get to learn the "Belichick 3-4" now!
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Post by brophy on Apr 27, 2008 14:57:42 GMT -6
well if a quarterback legend retires, I guess the plan is to give the glass slipper to the guy that EARNS it.....
Brian Brohm AND Matt Flynn to Green Bay (along with Aaron Rogers and Craig Nall)?
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Post by cqmiller on Apr 27, 2008 15:03:01 GMT -6
well if a quarterback legend retires, I guess the plan is to give the glass slipper to the guy that EARNS it..... Brian Brohm AND Matt Flynn to Green Bay (along with Aaron Rogers and Craig Nall)? I'm wondering WTF too... You take Aaron Rogers in the 1st round a couple years back and you need to draft 2 QB's this year? I think that they must be looking to trade 1 or 2 of those QB's in a package for someone they already have an eye on. Don't know...
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Post by vassdiddy on Apr 27, 2008 15:51:54 GMT -6
well if a quarterback legend retires, I guess the plan is to give the glass slipper to the guy that EARNS it..... Brian Brohm AND Matt Flynn to Green Bay (along with Aaron Rogers and Craig Nall)? I'm wondering WTF too... You take Aaron Rogers in the 1st round a couple years back and you need to draft 2 QB's this year? I think that they must be looking to trade 1 or 2 of those QB's in a package for someone they already have an eye on. Don't know... Casserley said Ted Thompson is a Ron Wolf disciple, and he likes to take at least 1 QB every year. I have a feeling Matt Flynn will be a camp arm. I'd loooooove to hear what the GB QB coach (which might be McCarthy) has to say about Flynn's mechanics. Our very own Coach Slack works with Flynn and laughed because people said Flynn couldn't throw the ball very far, even though he can launch it a good 75 yards (I think that's how far Coach Slack said he could throw it!?) He said Flynn gets a bad rap because his motion is so compact (and IMO looks "effortless"). Funny how proper motion actually makes people think you throw shorter distances - I guess it's like the little guy "flying" in the 40 and getting a 4.3 vs. the big guy "gliding" to a 4.3. I can't help thinking what some of these guys with weird throwing motions (Brennan & Woodson) would get from working with him. Or hell, Vince Young...
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Post by brophy on Apr 27, 2008 19:51:55 GMT -6
I wonder how you can connect the dots with so many hands stirring the pot....
scouts + personnel directors + general managers + coaches + owners + college coaches + draft scouts....
Also, I really am puzzled by some of the things that took place in this year's draft. Most noteably, the "fall" of some quality quarterbacks and other players. Characteristics that disqualify players, nuances that have kids passed over....just not sure what the "total package" consists of.
One of the factors that is often overlooked and under-appreciated is the perception of 'talent' or skill. You could take 10 coaches from this board and have them take their pick of 300 kids graduating....What you value at _____ position may not be the qualities that the other coach values. Your value of ______ position may not be regarded with the same priority level....
Now, when it comes to position coaches and coordinators, how do they utilize those skill sets of the players that are put in their lap?
The more I learn, the less I have any comprehension.
How do scouts determine what makes a good player? You probably find this more with the "analysts" than the ones employed for a team, but how you use a DE would determine if he's any "good" or not. Take a DE for Penn State (big run stopper).....that same DE would not start at Florida (explosive speed rusher), lets say......
I can't say for sure what is a great pick or bad pick, but guys I was interested in following were Brohm and Flynn (and Jacob Hester), because depending on WHO you are and what your current roster looks like, will determine how you value them and what your 'plans' for them would be.
Just saying - I'm stumped. Wish I was a sports writer, then I'd have all the answers.
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Post by Yash on Apr 27, 2008 20:13:55 GMT -6
Really, no one has the answers. This is like predicting the stock market, Unless you are actually in the waroom of the team, you don't have anything more than a slightly educated guess as to who they are going to draft. They talk about it all because it draws views. Views = money. Those guys just talk all day long to keep us interested and give the uneducated fan some water cooler talk. Now I'm not saying i'm not gulity. I watch it all, but I take it with a grain of salt. I don't really care that brian Brohm has "tissue injuries" the guy can throw a football well. People get hurt in this game. It happens. Don't let the guy get hit as much and I bet he has less "tissue injuries".
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ramsoc
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Post by ramsoc on Apr 27, 2008 21:38:51 GMT -6
I don't really care that brian Brohm has "tissue injuries" the guy can throw a football well. People get hurt in this game. You mean you didn't appreciate the every hour on the hour regurgitation of the Brian Brohm "tissue issue" by Stephania Bell. Hell, I'm an expert on his injuries how from hearing that crap so many times.
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Post by spreadattack on Apr 27, 2008 21:40:18 GMT -6
The QBs fell, in my view, just because of need and economics: if you draft a QB high you have to pay quite a bit for a guy who won't play all that much, and will put added pressure on your starter. And only a few times actually straight up *need* (or will admit that they need) a QB. This is why QB's fall every year. Brohm is a player, but Flacco snuck up there to Baltimore (they probably remember drafting Chris Redman out of Louisville a few years back), and then you just fall until someone takes you. It's telling that it was GB, who people didn't think needed to even take a QB that high.
And it'd be fun to run an NFL draft but far and away football is the hardest sport to evaluate. Looking at some guy run around in shorts or even anecdotally on film or in person is in many ways the absolute worst ways to evaluate talent. Your eyes can be deceiving, you can fall in love with workout wonders, it says little about production in the things you might actually need them to do, and it says nothing about mental/emotional stability to make it in the NFL, to study, learn, and work hard.
But what else can you do? This is where the system QB debates come in. It's just so hard to compare players. If I have four college baseball players who played in a decent league, I can learn *almost* everything I need to know by evaluating their numbers: for pitchers strikes, walks, etc; for batters, batting avg, on base percentage, slugging, etc, etc. The game is so much easier to model. It's all about hitting pitches. Now, some guy in college might not be able to hit a breaking ball or a pitcher might be limited in his pitches, whereas in MLB he needs that ability, those are at the margins.
But what do you do with football? Look at how many pancake blocks some offensive guard has? Obviously not. How much he bench presses? How do you compare a 4-3 DT who plays in the Pac-10 with a 3-4 Nose guard who plays in the ACC? I mean it can be done but not with things easily measured.
So it's tough. Especially since football is so demanding, how guys will shake out over a couple of years. In some ways, I'm amazed it works out as well as it does. I've always believed the reason the "more picks" philosophy at least appears to work is that it just averages the numbers out. You mess up with the same guys but get more tries to even it out.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2008 21:41:37 GMT -6
Even with all the research done, the draft really is a crapshoot. Someone did a study recently and the odds of finding a pro bowler with the first overall pick is only slightly better than with the 32nd pick. The article also pointed out why the heralded Jimmy Johnson value chart is outdated, but teams still swear by it. I think it was in ESPN magazine.
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Post by spreadattack on Apr 27, 2008 23:01:42 GMT -6
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Post by raiderpirates on Apr 27, 2008 23:50:33 GMT -6
Packers blocked other teams in their division getting those QB. In the past they've had Brunnel, Brooks on their squad. "All your QB are belong to ours!" In the salary cap era, you draft to your strengths so there are options. The Dolphins did really well, got a lot of LB/linemen to fit a 4-3 or 3-4/ Now you'll have to go through two base defensive sets in practice. So much for expanding thew game plan. Those huge OL they added, including baseball legend Dale Murphy's 320LB son, top pick Jake Long, and others to compliment bringing in veteran TE Fasano(a sixth OL in terms of run blocking) and two RB one of whom can play HB or FB gives Parcells a lot of power. Hit the other team in the mouth, slow the game down, change the D looks often. The OLB/DE from Hampton I wanted to see him get, expected him to move up, he's a DeMarcus Ware prototype whose value climbed, I was expecting him to go in rd 2 late for him, he had the first pick of 3, moved it back a few slots and still got his player. Perfect 3-4 SAM, or a 4-3 run defensive end. The DE Merling from Clemson, should of had to move up in one for him, got him at the start of round two, a great 3-4 end. Close as this draft had to a Leonard Marshall type. He added a Hamptom teammate undrafted for size and chemistry, someone able to be a 3-4 end or 4-3 tackle rotation. Instant chemistry for those two on stunts. He brought in a huge veteran NT or two gapper, a great undertackle from the Titans as well who could probably go to a 3-4 end, and traded for a veteran LB from the Dallas 3-4 to replace Zach Thomas with more speed and less cap cost. He also added an NFL brother in the BYU LB Poppinga, undrafted, a player I wanted my team to get in the seventh when he slid. He added three potential starters on the OL in a deep year for the draft there and he had two ready to start as holdovers. He brought in an extra OL in the form of a TE who knows his system and added yeoman runnning back depth. Players whose style displays your philosophy, who buy into what you want done. They run to the ball, play strong through the whistle, they establish a presence on the field with how well they finish plays. That's his foundation. He has a special teams return star to help field position, he added power up front to slow games down, and he has all kinds of defensive depth. He may have to manage a trade he proposed that never came through involving a star player who knows he's on the way out. See how that works on the way, since an in law of his was already released fromt he roster and went to the coach's former team. The only selection I wasn't enthused with was Chad Henne, I didn't like his footwork in some lowlights of him on some film. He appears to be quite football smart though, and that is prime at the position, he rivals a one year player at QB, the competition should fuel their camp to better levels with the arrival of a veteran as well. The value of a QB can't be overlooked so it was good for where he picked. He did have Merling already and knew he had the first pick of the third round. He picked players who resemble persons he used in similar roles to high levels on prior teams. Parcells can let others take notes, usually he's gone to the extent of auctioning off future picks and this was not done for the draft this year. He's actually progressed his own great status in the game to this point. Even if you beat them, his team will make you pay a physical price. In time those kind of teams win their share, and don't even share, they can get downright stingy with points and opportunities for the other side. He's amazing with veteran players as well and probably adds more value after the cut dates in June for cap hits and final rosters or late free agency. Who knows what the Supplemental Draft could score from him as well... My favorite team went for speed players, upside types. Workout warriors, etc. got the biggest game breaker and some other with similar hopes or style, for a team who has lost most of their games by less than seven points in the past seasons. My preference is more power players but they have added that with players traded for the prior year, and draft picks they developed along those lines, or free agents familiar with our OL coach. Provided these guys stay healthy we should be right in the thick of things. We mishandled a trade to an extent, but it is what it is, the player put self in that position and his time here was done, similar things happened last season. Oh, we didn't get Bruce Davis Jr. either. He had six more career sacks than the sixth overall pick at the same position. Fuming over that, but the late round DE we did get shows some promise, more an underdog.
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Post by coachaaron on Apr 28, 2008 8:44:48 GMT -6
How about some of those schools that did not have any players drafted. I don't think I saw anyone taken from Alabama, Syrcacuse, Ok State, Miss State . . .is there really a lack of talent at those bigtime, or at least fairly bigtime, schools?
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