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Post by airraider on Apr 14, 2008 19:54:03 GMT -6
How do you guys handle this?
I have an assistant, that I did not have to keep on staff.. he is however the AD.
He failed around 5 or so of our football players last 9 weeks.. Although I dont want this to happen, I feel it is outside of the realm of professionalism for me to "ask" him to do them a favor.
I just wish he would take the initiative to find another way to motivate them being that they play football.
He's real old school and has been a head coach for 20 or so years prior to the last few he has been here.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 14, 2008 19:58:50 GMT -6
If this teacher and coach has been in the system for 20+ years than he is failing the students for a reason.
You are correct in assuming that you would be "outside the realm of professionalism" to ask for a favor. Unprofessional doesn't describe what you would be doing.
Instead of turning this into an issue between you and the assistant (which you will lose), you'd better find out why your players academic performance is getting them an F.
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Post by splitricky5 on Apr 14, 2008 20:03:40 GMT -6
How about a courtesy heads-up? At least he could let you know they need help...
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Post by groundchuck on Apr 14, 2008 20:07:19 GMT -6
Maybe the kids need to find a little intrinsic motivation.  OR Maybe the kids need a swift kick in the balls for failing. I guess I don't know the whole situation. I never failed a kid who busted his/her butt. If they were doing everything they could to pass then I have manufactured ways for them to get a "D". On the other hand kids who fail, don't care, don't ask for help....or don't accept help when I offer it....well they wind up with the "F" they earned. |
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Post by tiger46 on Apr 14, 2008 20:23:58 GMT -6
I admit I don't know the whole of the story. But, my initial reaction is: Good for him!'
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Post by airraider on Apr 14, 2008 20:24:38 GMT -6
I would never ask him to do special favors for these kids.. heck I wouldnt even want him too.. But maybe he could handle the movitvation in another way?
I have actually worked at places where there is no way you would fail a football player.. Coach would say.. dont give him a grade.. but do what you have must to allow him to earn it.
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Post by los on Apr 14, 2008 20:32:04 GMT -6
They always told us....playing sports, band or being in club's and stuff.....was a "privledge"....earned by passing grades and good conduct (in and out of school).....still is...isn't it? If these kids won't work hard enough to make a "D -"in school......how hard will they work for you? And worse.....what is giving them something for nothing teaching them? Hows that gonna help them make it in this world.....after the school door hits them in the butt on the way out?..... Stay on top of things airraider......sure....communicate with their other teachers during the year....do everything you can, to get them help.....but you can't do the work "for them" |
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Post by ajreaper on Apr 14, 2008 20:36:02 GMT -6
How about they get treated like every other student- earn a grade, do what you must to take care of business but don't expect special treatment and as a coach don't expect it either. If you want heads up on such things have mandatory grade checks every couple of weeks.
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Post by towtheline on Apr 14, 2008 20:49:53 GMT -6
I realize that this is the cheesiest thing in the world to say but I am a firm believer in the phrase
"they are student-athletes not athlete-students"
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Post by amikell on Apr 14, 2008 21:12:08 GMT -6
warning rambling soapbox ahead... How do you guys handle this? I have an assistant, that I did not have to keep on staff.. he is however the AD. He failed around 5 or so of our football players last 9 weeks.. Although I dont want this to happen, I feel it is outside of the realm of professionalism for me to "ask" him to do them a favor. I just wish he would take the initiative to find another way to motivate them being that they play football. He's real old school and has been a head coach for 20 or so years prior to the last few he has been here. well since he has been around block, I think the kids failed for one of two reasons: 1. They didn't do squat in his class, and he didn't cut them any slack 2. They didn't do jack and he tried to help but they wouldn't help themselves. raider, I know what you are saying, and I feel you. BUT come on..how hard is it to pass a high school class. really? I have a senior football player in my 10th grade world history class who doesn't do squat...when and if he doesn't pass the class will it be my fault? no it'll be his, b/c he doesn't turn any work in regardless of how much I bug him about it. imho, anyone who shows up and does the work during class time should pass a high school class. Something tells me, imho, your former assistant is probably close to the way I feel. my bet is the kids are lazy sacks that don't deserve the grade, nor do they deserve to play. If you need to...play with 28...the ones that stay/make it will build your team and set the tone for the program. Soap box is now discarded. |
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Post by coachcoyote on Apr 15, 2008 0:37:40 GMT -6
Your AD/Asst. Coach didn't fail the kids, the kids failed themselves. The kids will give you all the reasons in the world, why they failed. If they were honest with you, they would tell you they didn't do enough to pass and apologize. A sense of entitlement permeates many of our kids. They forget they are responsible for their own actions and deserve nothing they don't earn. I tell my kids, athletes and non-athletes, everyone starts with an "A". Where they end up is on their shoulders. I offer extra credit work, make up opportunities, and will bend over backwards to assist any student that will show honest effort. Why attend class if you're not going to put forth the effort? If you do attend, look in the mirror and be honest with yourself. Thank the AD. There are too few old schoolers left that would do the right thing and give them the "F" they earned.
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Post by phantom on Apr 15, 2008 3:03:12 GMT -6
How about they get treated like every other student- earn a grade, do what you must to take care of business but don't expect special treatment and as a coach don't expect it either. If you want heads up on such things have mandatory grade checks every couple of weeks. That's where I thought the assistant kind of fell down. Why should there be a formal grade check when the kids are in a coach's class? The assistant should have brought it to the HCs attention and the HC could have provided some extra motivation. |
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Post by coachdawhip on Apr 15, 2008 4:20:40 GMT -6
How about they get treated like every other student- earn a grade, do what you must to take care of business but don't expect special treatment and as a coach don't expect it either. If you want heads up on such things have mandatory grade checks every couple of weeks. That's where I thought the assistant kind of fell down. Why should there be a formal grade check when the kids are in a coach's class? The assistant should have brought it to the HCs attention and the HC could have provided some extra motivation. I agree with phatnom most coaches will tell a HC if a player is failing, does that mean we will pass them no, but most will at least tell. Do they have 2, no they don't, but it has been my experience that they usually do. |
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 15, 2008 4:46:24 GMT -6
How about they get treated like every other student- earn a grade, do what you must to take care of business but don't expect special treatment and as a coach don't expect it either. If you want heads up on such things have mandatory grade checks every couple of weeks. That's where I thought the assistant kind of fell down. Why should there be a formal grade check when the kids are in a coach's class? The assistant should have brought it to the HCs attention and the HC could have provided some extra motivation. I think this is the answer he's looking for. I understand that this "old school coach" could be the type that just teaches the cirriculum, gives the assignments and tests, and assigns the grades accordingly. An appropriate approach I guess. This HC would do well to have a sitdown with the asst. and ask him to keep him informed on the progress of his players throughout the grading period, and that if one is in danger of failing give him enough of a heads up to get it straight before final grades. There's nothing wrong with helping a kid in this way. Just giving passing grades to players would be wrong, and wrong to ask for too. I also agree with the coach above that said if the kids were putting in the effort he'd make a way for them to pass, so long as thats the way he treated athletes and non-athlets alike. And like my HS Vice Princ. used to say: "School isn't for everybody!" Finally, I'd make sure that when you approach this "old school" asst. that he doesn't even get a feeling you're trying to have him "give away" grades to athletes. And he may be the hard core type that says "I teach, they learn if they can, and get the grades they earn. It's their job to keep up with their progress." If he says this, then it may be that HC has to identify the players with academic issues and hold them accountable for making their progress known to him. |
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smd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 211 
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Post by smd on Apr 15, 2008 5:17:17 GMT -6
this is what our head coach tells us. have a study hall during athletic pe...they do their work, then they get to participate, no work = no play. he is the coach, it is his job to make sure that they do their work, just like he does on the practice field. question...does he coach his position this way? i am sure not. so why does he teach this way? good luck with the job airraider, you got your work cut out for ya.
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Post by lochness on Apr 15, 2008 5:32:54 GMT -6
airraider,
Why can't YOU jump on their butts and let them be motivated by that? Rather than seeking out your assistant / AD, maybe you should get in their faces and tell them that they better pull their heads out of their rectal orafices.
Sometimes hearing it from the HC is the best motivation a kid can get.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 15, 2008 5:58:02 GMT -6
The coach wasn't wrong for failing them. If you earn an "F" then that's what you get.
I'd be upset that he didn't bring it to my attention earlier. If someone is failing a class, it's our job to be on them like stink on {censored} - in or out of season. I'd say this was a lack of communication on his part.
This also falls on my shoulders for not putting the feelers out there and keeping the lines of communication open with teachers...
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Post by realdawg on Apr 15, 2008 6:12:49 GMT -6
I have taught many football players in class and have and will NEVER give them a grade. If they fail, they fail. I had a couple of projected starters once, they were borderline passing, I called their parents (who couldnt have cared less) and informed our HC often on their progress. In the end, they scored high enough on their state mandated testing to pull out a D
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Post by larrymoe on Apr 15, 2008 6:21:16 GMT -6
How about they get treated like every other student- earn a grade, do what you must to take care of business but don't expect special treatment and as a coach don't expect it either. If you want heads up on such things have mandatory grade checks every couple of weeks. 100% spot on. |
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Post by bulldogoption on Apr 15, 2008 6:33:14 GMT -6
I look at this situation this way. The guy has been coaching for 20 years. He is a football asst coach. I would bet he has already given these kids any extra chances he can without sacrificing his integrity.
In my experience, kids can PASS classes if they want to.
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Post by gunslinger on Apr 15, 2008 7:04:10 GMT -6
My two cents...I don't think that it is the teachers responsibility to give the coach a "heads up" when kids are failing.
A lot of teachers will do that but that isn't their responsibility.
I think that it is the coaches responsibility to check on the academic progress of his team(s).
This is the exact reason why we always had a weekly progress report system in place.
We checked athletes grades every week.
Any D or F landed you in an athletic study hall on your time. You stayed there until all the grades came up.
If you were a repeat offender (multiple weeks, etc.), we added a little "incentive" work after practice.
Did we save everybody? No. Kids are going to fail. However, we were never blind sided at report card time either.
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Post by scoresalot on Apr 15, 2008 7:06:36 GMT -6
My initial reaction is, if a kid is going to screw around enough in a coach's class to fail, is he really someone that can be counted on on the football field? Come on, let's get serious. You are in your coach's class, "old school coach" at that, and you aren't going to do enough work to pass the class. That is a total lack of respect and dedication on the players part. They are the ones who need the swift kick in the butt, not the teacher.
While I agree with dcohio that there are some teachers who don't like athletes, I seriously doubt this is the case with this teacher since he is a coach and AD. Raider, did he give you any heads up about there grades, do you do a grade check during the off-season, etc.?
I was in a similar situation as an assistant coach. I told the head coach several times that starting OL was failing my class and I went so far as to give the coach a list of missing assignments because the kid wouldn't do them for me. I think he thought I would just give him the grade. He still didn't do the work. He "EARNED" the F. I guess coach didn't realize until July that the kid failed 2 classes so he was ineligible. Coach called me and asked me to change his grade. I said, "no, I gave him all the chances in the world." Coach then threatened to non-renew me after the following season if I didn't change it. I went and talked to the AD and Principal, but head coach was a good ol boy in there eyes. He had beent here for 20+ years and I was only there for 2, so they pretty much sided with him. I resigned as a coach right then and there.
Be careful if you approach the teacher/AD/Asst. coach.
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Post by brophy on Apr 15, 2008 7:12:48 GMT -6
I understand what you are asking and it makes sense.
"Cut the kids some slack, and afford them an opportunity to do extra credit....something to earn a way out of failing."
Well......
1) This is your first year as HC. What you do this year will set the tone for the next few years. The shortcuts you take this year will be even more difficult to get back on the 'tough' road (taking a hard line on academics).
or
2) Buy him a new shiny frame from Target for his Gerry DiNardo pictures.
OR
3) Tell him he can pass the kids and coach next year, or fail the kids and watch from the bleachers. You ain't no athletic director.....you're a freaking athletic department secretary!
** I completely understand the rationale behind this, and totally can relate to NEEDING particular players to make things even remotely "work". I know there are tons of kids who need football more than football needs them....
But there comes a time when boys just have to nut up and be MEN. Take responsibility for their actions and reap what you have sown. Not to be a "hard-ass", and not to jump into a bowl of hyperbole, but this is exactly what we are seeing with Carmello Anthony, Adam Jones, etc......poor decision-making and immaturity enabled to NEVER grow up.
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Post by k on Apr 15, 2008 7:32:50 GMT -6
Our starting RB had a 59.5 for me this year during the season. If he had a 59.4 I would have failed him. I will NEVER give a player a grade he doesn't deserve just because he plays football. If my HC asked me to I would instantly resign. I'm not sure if I'd go to the principal or not...
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coachwoody
Freshmen Member
Gotta love it!!!
Posts: 45
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Post by coachwoody on Apr 15, 2008 7:38:22 GMT -6
Airraider, I know the situation you are in and I would ask him if there was any thing they could do to bring up their grades. I understand that this is the guy that tried to get his guy hired instead of you and it did not work. You are a better man than I am when it comes to keeping the previous staff and not bringing in everyone you want to. Granted he has been in the system for years but they could reassign him if they wanted. Get as many people on your side as possible in order to turn it around. Good luck.
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Post by midlineqb on Apr 15, 2008 7:45:09 GMT -6
I have always told all of the teachers to let me know if they are having a problem with any of our players, academically or discipline wise. Nearly all do. Most even at the first sign of a problem. You have to keep after them throughout the year, not just during the season.
During the season at the end of each practice we talk about grades to the players. Remind them to take homework home and DO it. To ask questions in class if they don't understand something; there are no "stupid" questions, it is being stupid not to ask.
Just my thoughts.
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 15, 2008 8:19:19 GMT -6
How about they get treated like every other student- earn a grade, do what you must to take care of business but don't expect special treatment and as a coach don't expect it either. If you want heads up on such things have mandatory grade checks every couple of weeks. 100% spot on. I think any kid that wants to pass, and gives the effort and can't, should get some special treatment in school. The job of teachers and coaches is to teach, coach, train, and develope young men and women intellectually and physically. Some need more help than others in the classroom just like on the field some kids just "get it" quicker than others. As long as it's not about manufacturing a grade for eligibility, then extra help should go to those that need it, athlete or not. Giving them busy work for extra credit so they can pass is not to the benefit of anyone. Setting them up with real help so they can learn, and helping them earn credit is the proper and right thing to do for the kid. Not all kids need the extra attention. |
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Post by cqmiller on Apr 15, 2008 8:49:40 GMT -6
I taught summer school last year and I failed our #1 WR because he refused to do the work... He is the best athlete in the school, and he had to miss our first 5 games. I am actually a little harder on my football kids, probably to make sure that there is 0% chance that any issues like this would come up... Quickest way to ruin your reputation is to give kids a break because they play sports.
I hate it when teachers "help" a kid out...
It just gives them the sense that for the rest of their lives, as long as they are "the athlete", they can get special treatment. When in reality, they need to do things that extra bit better than a "normal" student because of the stigma that comes with being a football player... We all know the general thoughts behind college football players.
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Post by phantom on Apr 15, 2008 9:13:15 GMT -6
My two cents...I don't think that it is the teachers responsibility to give the coach a "heads up" when kids are failing. A lot of teachers will do that but that isn't their responsibility. I think that it is the coaches responsibility to check on the academic progress of his team(s). This is the exact reason why we always had a weekly progress report system in place. We checked athletes grades every week. Any D or F landed you in an athletic study hall on your time. You stayed there until all the grades came up. If you were a repeat offender (multiple weeks, etc.), we added a little "incentive" work after practice. Did we save everybody? No. Kids are going to fail. However, we were never blind sided at report card time either.[/quote The teacher IS a coach. I wouldn't expect every teacher to report to the coach but I'd certainly expect it from a guy on my staff.] |
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Post by fatkicker on Apr 15, 2008 9:26:35 GMT -6
like some have already said......
if the kid can't make an effort to pass a coach's class.......then you don't need him anyway........
if you blame your assistant for the kids failing...then shame on you......
an old coach used to tell me (and this probably applies to several of us).....he used to say that you could sit a donkey in the back of his class....and if that donkey would show up on time, do some of his homework, and stay pretty quiet....he'd have a shot at passing......
i'd be willing to bet that this kid had every opportunity to do the right thing....
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