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Post by wildcat on Apr 13, 2008 10:34:49 GMT -6
Wondering if anyone saw it this morning...
Basically about NY Giants kicker Lawrence Tynes' brother and high school buddies who ran a pretty big drug smuggling ring. Tynes' brother got 27 years in prison while the other guys got much lighter sentences for rolling over and cooperating with federal authorities As most of you guys know, Tynes is white and almost all of the guys involved were white or Hispanic and came from upper-middle classs families. What struck me during the program was what I can only describe as "white hip-hop culture"...in photographs that were used in the program, the members of the "ring" were flashing faux-gang signs and and rapper poses...they dressed in "Phat Farm" clothing and other clothing that is predominately marketed to African American consumers (or to kids like this, I guess?) and they even called their little gang "The Bhoyz". As I watched the program, it appeared to me that these guys were just the ultimate wannabes...it was almost LAUGHABLE how hard these guys were trying to act like real gangsters...With that being said, the crime they committed was very serious and resulted in at least one very long prison term.
The school where I teach and coach at is low-income (over 50% of kids receive free or reduced lunches) but we do have some white kids who come from affluence. The "white hip-hop" culture at the high school is heavily evident in terms of fashion, musical preference, language, mannerisms, etc, etc...
Personally, I find this cultural style to be antagonistic towards the goals of a football team. It seems to me that the "white hip-hop" culture stresses materialism, egomania, selfishness, a disregard for authority and teamwork, and a glorification of violence and lawlessness.
Do any of you guys have issues like this at your school?
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Post by coachorr on Apr 13, 2008 10:41:36 GMT -6
Rap music sells mainly to white suburban America. I have coached less than 10 African American kids in 10 years and that includes three sports and three different schools and I woul say that rap music was predominantly the most popular music.
Every school I have worked in has been low income, but this one now is 680 students of which 60 or 70 per cent are on free and reduced and there are less than 15 African American kids in the school and I would say that Rap music is the music of choice.
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Post by wildcat on Apr 13, 2008 10:58:48 GMT -6
Rap music sells mainly to white suburban America. I have coached less than 10 African American kids in 10 years and that includes three sports and three different schools and I woul say that rap music was predominantly the most popular music. Every school I have worked in has been low income, but this one now is 680 students of which 60 or 70 per cent are on free and reduced and there are less than 15 African American kids in the school and I would say that Rap music is the music of choice. Well, I guess that is my point...that's why I referred to it as "white" hip-hop culture. I agree that most "gangster rap" music is NOT marketed to black kids, but to middle class white kids. |
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Post by coachorr on Apr 13, 2008 11:04:45 GMT -6
It is odd to say the leas. And I am not sure that it is conducive to the environment of a football team. It is all individualism as you mention. Good point.
I mean come on, this music is just terrible. I mean, how much talent does it take to sing soulja boy over and over.
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Post by k on Apr 13, 2008 12:15:02 GMT -6
Personally, I find this cultural style to be antagonistic towards the goals of a football team. It seems to me that the "white hip-hop" culture stresses materialism, egomania, selfishness, a disregard for authority and teamwork, and a glorification of violence and lawlessness. Do any of you guys have issues like this at your school? I'm at a co-op between an upper middle class to wealthy suburb and a much more urban school. We have both white kids acting urban and Black and Hispanic kids acting urban from the urban school. What is just as bad as this in my eyes is the "ignorant white redneck" counter culture that has sprung up in the upper middle class suburban school. Kids wearing confederate flags, glorifying violence especially against women, as well as glorifying laziness and partying, being disrespectful to both their teammates and coaches. If I could eliminate one of the two counter cultures on the team it would be this one without a doubt. |
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Post by wingt74 on Apr 13, 2008 12:36:05 GMT -6
I watched the episode.
One comment one of those kids said...in referring to the amount of time the brother got, "27 years? Thats for rapists and murders...thats just to long"
I think kids have this feeling that, pot isn't THAT bad.
In talking about the music...rap promotes a lot of fighting, killing, anger, gangs, and drugs. I think kids understand killing is really bad, robbery is bad, even assault is bad (bad defined by them as, getting a LOT of years in prison)...but a lot of kids get this sense that selling and smoking pot isn't THAT bad, and if caught, is like getting caught for underage drinking.
I teach my kids that pot will get you some SERIOUS years in prison and turn you into a mush brain.
I bet those kids supplied their entire town with pot, and got a lot of kids addicted to it because of their involvement.
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Post by tiger46 on Apr 13, 2008 12:39:55 GMT -6
Wildcat, If Tyne's brother's gang activities included selling drugs and flashing gang signs; then they were no less legitimate than most black "gangbangers" that I remember. Just hit the problem head-on. I coach youth football in East Austin, Tx. Low income, broken homes, etc... That's how I deal with it. If my players start singing 'gangsta rap' lyrics around me, I methodically go through every line with them and ask them if they really want to grow up that way? I ask things like, 'How many pimps do you see driving you or, your teammates to practice?' 'Any pimps come to your house with a bag of groceries for your mother or your family?' 'Know any gangstas volunteering their personal time to coach your team in football?' By the time I get through running down pimps, playas, big ballers, hustlers, and bangers; they don't much want to be anything like them.  It's depressing to me to hear little kids reciting 'gangsta rap' lyrics. |
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Post by tog on Apr 13, 2008 13:39:21 GMT -6
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Post by k on Apr 13, 2008 14:16:00 GMT -6
I teach my kids that pot will get you some SERIOUS years in prison and turn you into a mush brain. I bet those kids supplied their entire town with pot, and got a lot of kids addicted to it because of their involvement. Careful lying to kids about soft drugs because when you do that and they find out you're lying about soft drugs they are more apt to try hard drugs because then obviously you were lying about those too. You're better off telling them the truth. That one possession charge and there probably goes your college financial aid. That it will make you less likely to be motivated to succede in the classroom and on the field. That it will get you kicked off the sports teams. That we have eyes and ears too and you WILL be caught. |
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Post by CVBears on Apr 13, 2008 14:45:32 GMT -6
although it is true that marijuana will not LIKELY decrease mental capacity as significantly as crack, meth or ecstasy. However, in addition to having a higher potential do damage your lungs and cause lung/throat cancer than cigarettes, marijuana kills brain cells in the outer most region. That outer most region is responsible for higher order thinking and the ability to apply different pieces of information. Not really a big deal if you are asking "would you like fries with that sir?" but would be a big deal if you would ever want to be in a job where they actually have to think.
again, just some additional truth to tell your kids if they are heading down the wrong path
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Post by coachgreen05 on Apr 13, 2008 16:11:48 GMT -6
1. Whats a "rapper pose"?
2. Hip hop music is bought predominately by white suburban kids and women.
3. Nice post DCOHIO
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Post by wildcat on Apr 13, 2008 16:37:48 GMT -6
1. Whats a "rapper pose"? 2. Hip hop music is bought predominately by white suburban kids and women. 3. Nice post DCOHIO We have already established that hip hop music is predominately marketed to and purchased by suburban white kids. As far as a "rapper pose"...perhaps that was a poor choice of words. This is what I am talking about:  ...just with rich, white kids doing it. |
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Post by coachcb on Apr 13, 2008 19:21:43 GMT -6
Heard a great line this week in response to a high school kid saying "was-up ese"?
"Your skins white, your hair's red, but you speak like Mexican immigrant, dress like a Black and drive Japanese"
The hip-hop culture isn't just a laughable fad anymore; kids of all races and colors are getting themselves into serious legal trouble. It has very little to do with the music anymore; it's the perceived "thug-life" that supposedly birthed the music.
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Post by spos21ram on Apr 13, 2008 20:42:30 GMT -6
All people who dress like gangsters are wanna-be's no matter what race they are.
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Post by coach79 on Apr 13, 2008 23:09:07 GMT -6
All people who dress like gangsters are wanna-be's no matter what race they are. Now what is "dressing like a gangster"? |
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Post by coachbdud on Apr 13, 2008 23:12:52 GMT -6
kids are gonna use weed regardless for the most part
can every coach on here honestly say they have never done anything "illegal"
most people have tried weed at some point in there lives
in the area i coach in, it is impossible to tell all the kids dont smoke weed. no one will listen when all you tell them is what they CANT do.
the best you can do as a coach is try to get them to understand how to make good decisions
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Post by tiger46 on Apr 14, 2008 5:36:37 GMT -6
dcohio has the gist of it. Only I'd go further and say that it is not only the suburbanite kids that have a glamorized ideal of being a hustler. Inner-city kids operate under that same delusion- only inner-city kids actually have access to street-life.
That's one of the reasons why I go through the trouble of stripping away the illusion of fast money, big cars, etc...
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Post by spreadattack on Apr 14, 2008 7:25:26 GMT -6
1. Whats a "rapper pose"?  |
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Post by wingt74 on Apr 14, 2008 9:58:24 GMT -6
All people who dress like gangsters are wanna-be's no matter what race they are. Now what is "dressing like a gangster"? Above pictures are it. pants 10 times to big, underwear hanging out, the bling/jewelery, usually a hat worn slanted and up high, general look of stupidity. Honda Civic with heavily tinted windows, huge spoiler, loud music. Thankfully, these kids are making themselves pretty easy to spot. If one of my players dresses this way, we have a talk. Explain the negative connotations that are associated with dressing like a "gangster". I know, probably doesn't do any good, but I'm not going to just ignore it. |
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Post by dacoachmo on Apr 14, 2008 10:20:34 GMT -6
1. Whats a "rapper pose"? ILMAO! |
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Post by safetycoach34 on Apr 14, 2008 12:04:18 GMT -6
IMO i think that for ever one of these "fauxgangsters" you have 20 kids who like rap music that are great kids. I think you need to look less at the music and more at other aspects of teh kids life. I know in every locker room i have been in rap music has been what the majority(80%) of the guys listen to, but they all have their heads on straight and have gone on to be successful the questions we should be asking are not what can we do to change the music, but instead why do some kids try to embrace the "life depicted by the music while others listen for enjoyment, but want nothing to do with the lifestyle
I bet there is something going on in most of these "gangstas" houses that have them looking to rap for answers instead of a trusted adult/parent
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Post by khalfie on Apr 14, 2008 17:14:59 GMT -6
IMO i think that for ever one of these "fauxgangsters" you have 20 kids who like rap music that are great kids. I think you need to look less at the music and more at other aspects of teh kids life. I know in every locker room i have been in rap music has been what the majority(80%) of the guys listen to, but they all have their heads on straight and have gone on to be successful the questions we should be asking are not what can we do to change the music, but instead why do some kids try to embrace the "life depicted by the music while others listen for enjoyment, but want nothing to do with the lifestyle I bet there is something going on in most of these "gangstas" houses that have them looking to rap for answers instead of a trusted adult/parent Great post. Way to provide some perspective in this "generalized" dialouge... |
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Post by tiger46 on Apr 14, 2008 20:30:55 GMT -6
IMO i think that for ever one of these "fauxgangsters" you have 20 kids who like rap music that are great kids. I think you need to look less at the music and more at other aspects of teh kids life. I know in every locker room i have been in rap music has been what the majority(80%) of the guys listen to, but they all have their heads on straight and have gone on to be successful the questions we should be asking are not what can we do to change the music, but instead why do some kids try to embrace the "life depicted by the music while others listen for enjoyment, but want nothing to do with the lifestyle I bet there is something going on in most of these "gangstas" houses that have them looking to rap for answers instead of a trusted adult/parent Crap is crap. Strip away the identity with 'gangsta rap'. |
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Post by khalfie on Apr 14, 2008 23:47:21 GMT -6
pretty strong feelings on "gangsta rap'...
Do we feel the same about gangsta movies?
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Fridge
Sophomore Member
Re-Building the Bocholt Rhinos (18+) in Germany for 2024.
Posts: 148 
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Post by Fridge on Apr 15, 2008 5:17:12 GMT -6
... glorifying laziness and partying, being disrespectful to both their teammates and coaches... Coaches, it reads strange for me, that this problem is a topic even in the US, where anyone should know how important the own behaviour even outside the football team is, for the football team. Here in Germany, where American Football is still a hobby, young guys have to pay for to play in clubs, this is a huge problem. Great guys, who say they "love" their football team go drunk at a party, jump from walls or trees and get hurt some weeks before season starts and things like that. I don´t know how to motivate the guys, to have their "freedom of youth", have their fun on parties, may get drunk from time to time, but NEVER forget their team and teammates. Some of them try to convince the others, but mostly without success. Smoking is another thing to that. They start smoking, wonder why the lack condition, but don´t stop. They even lie, when you ask them about it. It would be easy, if they "adjust" their thinking on football, e.g. that they would say, that this is just a hobby for them. But those guys - of course - are the first guys who cry about a loss, cry about why they aren´t as good as others etc. That hiphop-thingy is quite another story. In Germany there is a growing hip-hop community, who think they come from typical ghettos. And the kids, who like that, behave like ghetto kids, even if they are way far from knowing what "ghetto" means... I don´t think I can imagine that. But by acting that way, disrespecting others, rating temporary FUN before long-termed TEAM SPIRIT, I even more and more loose the point, how football in Germany can/will grow up. It is and will be the sport with the most team spirit needed, with the most courage needed. With decreasing courage and team spirit, this will be even harder in the future... (just a bit crying by me, sorry if I failed the topic) |
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Post by tiger46 on Apr 15, 2008 6:38:44 GMT -6
khalfie,
Yes I do. Glorifying the mafia and/or gangsters is just as silly to me.
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Post by khalfie on Apr 15, 2008 8:24:06 GMT -6
khalfie, Yes I do. Glorifying the mafia and/or gangsters is just as silly to me. Glad to hear it... But my point was, and is, that we compartmentalize too often... We look at symptoms instead of the ailment... Gangsta Rap... can't defend it... no more than I can defend horror, action, and even comedy movies... no more than I can defend, Metal, rock, or country music, they all have their negative commentary... no more than I can defend questionable literature... What I find questionable, is the myopic view of the coaching fellowship... instead of looking at the power ingrained within hip hop culture... you focus on the negative step child of the industry, "gangsta rap", and generalize the complete movement on its failures. I don't like gangsta rap, but recognizing the influence it has on our youth, regardless of race, I am aware of it... I'm more so aware of the positive aspects of hip hop culture... the dance, the "other" music, and yes, there is other hip hop music, the style, and I utilize it to create a vehicle of communication with a generation of children that find it so enthralling. You want to know about hip hop... rent a movie called "brown Sugar"... it will get you on the right path... Instead of being the antagonist, take a different stance, be able to communicate on it intelligently, and then win some of the kids back from the darkside. The underbelly of society is consumed with materialism, hyper sexism, drug usage, and dehumanization. If you want to counter that... sitting on your pedestal commentating on how wrong it is will get you nowhere... or at least, exactly where you are now... on the message board complaining about today's youth. Just a suggestion, find your conversation within hip hop... find your "in", so that you can truly affect change... because your current methodology, just isn't getting it done. |
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kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on Apr 15, 2008 9:15:16 GMT -6
What to teenage boys need to become a REAL man?
-Time with thier fathers or significant positive male role models
-Life skills & the ability to discern & discriminate virtues from culture
-Directions with solid why answers
-Integrity and convictions through positive modeling
-Love & affirmation from their fathers and other men who surround them
A REAL MAN...
accepts responsibility
rejects passivity by leading courageously
enacts justice on others behalf by showing empathy
expects a greater reward
Manhood is defined by the relationships we develop & maintain throughout our lifetime.
-a man's capacity to love other people
-a man's capacity to receive love from those around him
-a man's character with and around other men
A REAL man has a clear and compelling definition of manhood and a specific code of conduct for being a man. He understands the importance of a transcendent purpose for his life.
Transcendent Purpose :
- being OTHERS centered
- the number of people you touch in a positive way (positive impact)
- the things you do / give / or provide to effect other people in a positive way
4 components of FALSE MASCULINITY:
1. Athletic or Physical ability & appearance: how I look or "look at me"
2. Sexual conquest: sexual manipulation of women or self-gratification including: pornography; masturbation; fantasy
3. Economic Success: How much stuff do I own or "My house is bigger than your house"
4. Control / conquest / domination: no loyalty to anyone or anything; no virtue / morales; lack of empathy or caring for anyone.
IMO our society has a lack of positive male models who are willing to stand up, step out and stand in. Check the deans offices in your schools and I bet the majority of discipline problems come from a fatherless or "absent" father (a father who is there in body but not spirit due to addiction/self-centered/mental illness) home. The biggest difference in our generations is FATHERLESSNESS & lack of POSITIVE male communities/groups in which boys are raised. THIS TRANSCENDS ECONOMICS/CULTURE/SKIN COLOR/RACE/RELIGION/MUSIC/CLOTHING/SPEECH-LANGUAGE ETC.
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Post by cmow5 on Apr 15, 2008 9:34:32 GMT -6
khalfie, Yes I do. Glorifying the mafia and/or gangsters is just as silly to me. Glad to hear it... But my point was, and is, that we compartmentalize too often... We look at symptoms instead of the ailment... Gangsta Rap... can't defend it... no more than I can defend horror, action, and even comedy movies... no more than I can defend, Metal, rock, or country music, they all have their negative commentary... no more than I can defend questionable literature... What I find questionable, is the myopic view of the coaching fellowship... instead of looking at the power ingrained within hip hop culture... you focus on the negative step child of the industry, "gangsta rap", and generalize the complete movement on its failures. I don't like gangsta rap, but recognizing the influence it has on our youth, regardless of race, I am aware of it... I'm more so aware of the positive aspects of hip hop culture... the dance, the "other" music, and yes, there is other hip hop music, the style, and I utilize it to create a vehicle of communication with a generation of children that find it so enthralling. You want to know about hip hop... rent a movie called "brown Sugar"... it will get you on the right path... Instead of being the antagonist, take a different stance, be able to communicate on it intelligently, and then win some of the kids back from the darkside. The underbelly of society is consumed with materialism, hyper sexism, drug usage, and dehumanization. If you want to counter that... sitting on your pedestal commentating on how wrong it is will get you nowhere... or at least, exactly where you are now... on the message board complaining about today's youth. Just a suggestion, find your conversation within hip hop... find your "in", so that you can truly affect change... because your current methodology, just isn't getting it done. Excellent post. I have connected with a few of my players this year because hip-hop/gangsta rap is the music I listen to. I spent most of my life in projects and ghettos (Yes there is a difference between the two). I was the bad kid making the bad decisions and I am paying for it now. I am able to connect with the trouble kids on a level a lot of other adults can not because of my back ground. Hip/Hop is a culture not a fad. It is here to stay and the most popular music out there. It started with the sugar Hill gang in the late 70's and has been going strong ever since. The term Gangsta Rap come mostly from N.W.A in the late 80's. Believe or not most of todays "Rap" is not considered "Gangsta Rap" it is Hip Hop. Instead of being someone that says it sucks, its not music, and my players/kids can not listen to it. I would get to know about it more and be able to communicate with your kids about it. Its like a brand new Offense come out that is sweeping the nation and you want no part of it. No one sayd you have to run it, but you better know about it because chances are you will face a team that runs it. No one says you have to like or listen to "Rap", but get to know about it and maybe you can start to communicate with the kids when you hear them talking about it or talking in "Ebonics" |
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Post by tiger46 on Apr 15, 2008 17:13:01 GMT -6
khalfie, Yes I do. Glorifying the mafia and/or gangsters is just as silly to me. Glad to hear it... But my point was, and is, that we compartmentalize too often... We look at symptoms instead of the ailment... Gangsta Rap... can't defend it... no more than I can defend horror, action, and even comedy movies... no more than I can defend, Metal, rock, or country music, they all have their negative commentary... no more than I can defend questionable literature... What I find questionable, is the myopic view of the coaching fellowship... instead of looking at the power ingrained within hip hop culture... you focus on the negative step child of the industry, "gangsta rap", and generalize the complete movement on its failures. I don't like gangsta rap, but recognizing the influence it has on our youth, regardless of race, I am aware of it... I'm more so aware of the positive aspects of hip hop culture... the dance, the "other" music, and yes, there is other hip hop music, the style, and I utilize it to create a vehicle of communication with a generation of children that find it so enthralling. You want to know about hip hop... rent a movie called "brown Sugar"... it will get you on the right path... Instead of being the antagonist, take a different stance, be able to communicate on it intelligently, and then win some of the kids back from the darkside. The underbelly of society is consumed with materialism, hyper sexism, drug usage, and dehumanization. If you want to counter that... sitting on your pedestal commentating on how wrong it is will get you nowhere... or at least, exactly where you are now... on the message board complaining about today's youth. Just a suggestion, find your conversation within hip hop... find your "in", so that you can truly affect change... because your current methodology, just isn't getting it done. khalfie, I think you've got me messed up with someone else. I don't need to be introduced to hip hop. I grew up listening to R&B and hip hop. As I grew older, I learned to appreciate other genres of music, also. Happens when not all of your friends are black, also. But, I still listen to hip hop, too. I can't control what kids listen to in their own homes or, with their friends. I don't try. It's beyond the scope of my abilities. It doesn't excuse the fact that the content of most gangsta rap songs that I hear is crap. As I said, 'crap is crap.' The design of the commode it sits in doesn't make a difference. I even once interrupted a group of them reciting 'This is the Way I Live'- which really isn't the worst gangsta song I've ever heard. I challenged them to a rap battle. They didn't even know what a rap battle was. They can recite junk lyrics. But, they don't even know what a rap battle is. Yeah, these kids are really preserving the legacy of hip hop.  I give a lot of them rides to their homes. I put in Eric B. & Rakim and let them 'Check Out My Melody'. I didn't attack hip hop. Wouldn't attack hip hop. You're reading something into my posts that isn't there. What I try to do for the kids is help them place a mental filter up to know that being a pimp, hustler, or drug dealer isn't a wise career choice. They may want to think twice about spraying down a street corner with an AK-47. And, that most of gangsta rappers haven't done anywhere near the amount of BS that they're claiming in their songs. If they even have a police record at all for their 'street cred', it's usually for being some minor drug dealer. I'm not on a pedestal. I'm in the trenches. If you're assuming that I'm attacking all of hip hop; you're wrong. If you're claiming that I attack the content of gangsta rap; then you have a case. I ask them questions like, "Do you really want to be a thug? What does it mean to you to go out 'thugging?" I explain what that lifestyle is like. I ask, "If gangbanging is so glamorous and profitable why did they stop doing it and start rapping? Or, do you really believe Snoop Dog is standing on a corner somewhere waiting to sell you rocks? Ice Cube ain't out there either. And, neither is Rich Boy." Hit the problem head on. Crap is crap. I don't avoid it; if anything, I rub their noses in it and let them get a whiff because the one thing they don't need is a real taste. |
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