kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on Apr 9, 2008 6:51:49 GMT -6
One of the fastest athletes in our school just told me he wants to play football next year. He runs a sub :50 400 (49.8 yesterday), 6'3 185 - holds the PE record for vertical at 37". He is a 3.8 college prep/accelerated student, he is a consistent member of my FCA huddle (holds bible studies in his home). Here is the rub - the last 3 years he has quit the track team going into the district finals (our track team has been top 3 in state). Everyone from teachers to coaches to players to his parents, his paster etc has tried to talk him out of or stop him from quitting. Why does he quit? He gives multiple reasons (again he is a super kid - does not give excuses - accepts responsibility) He gets along with the other kids - he is not a extrovert but he is not a loner either. I've never dealt with this kid one on one before. Do I lay down the law or treat him with kid gloves? Do I count on him or hold my breath?
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 9, 2008 7:09:07 GMT -6
Lay down the law- tell him how much you'd love to have him, but explain that quitting on his teammates is unacceptable. He's either in or out. Be real with him- but don't hold your breath.
I've learned the hard way to only count on the guys that have followed you through the fire. I hope it pans out as this guy sounds like a superb athlete. Good luck coach!
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Post by phantom on Apr 9, 2008 8:01:26 GMT -6
One of the fastest athletes in our school just told me he wants to play football next year. He runs a sub :50 400 (49.8 yesterday), 6'3 185 - holds the PE record for vertical at 37". He is a 3.8 college prep/accelerated student, he is a consistent member of my FCA huddle (holds bible studies in his home). Here is the rub - the last 3 years he has quit the track team going into the district finals (our track team has been top 3 in state). Everyone from teachers to coaches to players to his parents, his paster etc has tried to talk him out of or stop him from quitting. Why does he quit? He gives multiple reasons (again he is a super kid - does not give excuses - accepts responsibility) He gets along with the other kids - he is not a extrovert but he is not a loner either. I've never dealt with this kid one on one before. Do I lay down the law or treat him with kid gloves? Do I count on him or hold my breath? If he plays he plays. Nice bonus. Hold him to the same expectations as the rest of the team. |
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Post by airraider on Apr 9, 2008 8:16:02 GMT -6
coach I too have come to realize to just open the door, but never push them through it. If you have to beg a kid to play, that opens up problems that could arise from insubordination. If he doesn't want to put in the work, are you going to beg him to do the work, or demand he does it or else? Let them know up front the price he will have to pay and the benefits of such actions. If he then decides to come out then it is on your terms and not his.
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Post by brophy on Apr 9, 2008 8:25:21 GMT -6
call me the minority, but I say give him a wad of cash and have him move in with you
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Post by safetycoach34 on Apr 9, 2008 8:27:57 GMT -6
Coach:
The first thing I would do was make sure this kid can catch/run routes before i start worrying about how to deal with him. I knew a kid that was very similar great runner very explosive, but couldnt catch a cold. If this is the case for this kid would it be worth the work to get him onboard. If he is the athlete that you think he is sit him down and explain to him that the team comes first and quitting is not an option. You also have to instill in him that being a man of your word is very important so if he comes out for the team and gives his word he will be there through the season it is important for him to stick to his words.
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Post by cmow5 on Apr 9, 2008 8:30:25 GMT -6
i would talk to the Track coach and find out how he handled him. It sounds like you might of already did that. If you did then follow then other 3 post and if you have not then there is a starting point.
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Post by brophy on Apr 9, 2008 8:39:50 GMT -6
here is an outside concern, and I can be way off base.
The kid might be going out for track to dominate the local guppies, but is afraid of competing (afraid of failure) by avoiding Districts.
The next question would be, how is he in the weight room?
If he isn't in the weight room....then.....ahem.....what do you really have?
A great body, but a mushy (baby) brain / maturity.
It is going to boil down to finding out what motivates the kid, what his trigger is if you want to unlock his potential.
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mike13
Sophomore Member
Posts: 108
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Post by mike13 on Apr 9, 2008 8:49:43 GMT -6
Coach, you mentioned that he is a member of the FCA. Talk to him tell him what you expect, and them come out and ask him if he's going to quit. Remind him that sports are a commitment. If he comes out then you expect him to honor his commitment. Be honest with him and tell him you expect the same. Good Luck.
By the way had a kid that didn't show up for the district track meet two years in a row.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by tedseay on Apr 9, 2008 8:51:13 GMT -6
One of the fastest athletes in our school just told me he wants to play football next year. He runs a sub :50 400 (49.8 yesterday), 6'3 185 - holds the PE record for vertical at 37". He is a 3.8 college prep/accelerated student, he is a consistent member of my FCA huddle (holds bible studies in his home). Here is the rub - the last 3 years he has quit the track team going into the district finals (our track team has been top 3 in state). Everyone from teachers to coaches to players to his parents, his paster etc has tried to talk him out of or stop him from quitting. Why does he quit? He gives multiple reasons (again he is a super kid - does not give excuses - accepts responsibility) He gets along with the other kids - he is not a extrovert but he is not a loner either. I've never dealt with this kid one on one before. Do I lay down the law or treat him with kid gloves? Do I count on him or hold my breath? Let him know the door is open, and tell him to meditate on this: "For by thee I have run through a troop; and by my God have I leaped over a wall." - Psalm 18:29 |
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Post by mwpilots on Apr 9, 2008 13:27:10 GMT -6
You need to have a hart to hart talk with this kid. Why does he now want to play Football after all this time? You don't cheat the game by just showing up for Football after being in the school for three years. I'm sorry, but Football is not a game that you just show up and play on a whim. I don't care what kind of athlete he is the question is "Can he play football?" The other question is "What about the kid who worked his way up from JV to get his shot on varsity?" Don't be so impressed by what he looks like on paper. I personally question his motives. Treat him like everyone else. He gets no special treatment whatsoever. If he can contribute, then use him. If he sucks, well too bad for him. I have not gotten to be head coach yet but I don't think that I will allow to many first year player who are seniors unless they have transferred in from somewhere else where they played football. The only other way I would allow this is if I don't have any numbers. I guess my short answer would be to treat him with Kid Gloves because I would not trust him at all given his past history of quitting.
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Post by scoresalot on Apr 10, 2008 6:40:26 GMT -6
You need to have a hart to hart talk with this kid. Why does he now want to play Football after all this time? You don't cheat the game by just showing up for Football after being in the school for three years. I'm sorry, but Football is not a game that you just show up and play on a whim.
The only thing I have to say about this is that maybe he didn't have a choice to play football. I had a kid a couple years ago who wanted to play football his entire life, but father wouldn't let him. He too was 6'2" 185 lbs, and as an 8th grader, he would've won every varsity hurdle event that our high school competed in. His father passed away sadly, and the next year as a Soph. he convinced his mother to let him play. Yes, he struggled early on, but by midway through the year he was a starting WR and DB. If this kid is the athlete that it sounds, he can play football. He will pick up the skills faster than most.
The biggest question is not "Can he play football?" We some coaching he CAN. The biggest question is "Does he truly WANT to put in the time to play football?" Only time will tell on that one.
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Post by towtheline on Apr 10, 2008 19:57:46 GMT -6
What Phantom said. The last 3 years, he's quit the track team. So he's going to be a senior and a first year football player. A "reason" for quitting is just an excuse that sounds legit. It's still an excuse. "WHY" he quit is irrelevant, quitting is quitting. You're going to be disappointed in him on the football field. He's an athlete, not a football player and if you count on him you need your head examined. I agree, one year players usually don't letter and besides if he quit a non contact sport and quit then................ wow I'm not disrespecting track or anything but there is a huge difference in football and track/cross country |
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Post by CoachDaniel on Apr 10, 2008 21:52:50 GMT -6
This seems simple, unless there's something I'm not seeing. He's interested in playing. Tell him when to be there, if he shows up treat him like everyone else. If he's good, play him, and have a back-up ready. Don't change your scheme to fit his abilities (of which you don't really know if he has any), and you have no worries if he bails on you because you should have another guy ready to roll. Track is not football - that goes both ways. None of us would quit football... but track sucks, all they do is run around. I might think about quitting that. Not to mention, a junior is not a senior. A year can make a difference.
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 11, 2008 5:01:45 GMT -6
This seems simple, unless there's something I'm not seeing. He's interested in playing. Tell him when to be there, if he shows up treat him like everyone else. If he's good, play him, and have a back-up ready. Don't change your scheme to fit his abilities (of which you don't really know if he has any), and you have no worries if he bails on you because you should have another guy ready to roll. Track is not football - that goes both ways. None of us would quit football... but track sucks, all they do is run around. I might think about quitting that. Not to mention, a junior is not a senior. A year can make a difference. Lots of good advice in here. The kid has shown the interest. No problem there. Let him show up, evaluate him like you do all new comers, and go from there. Sounds like he's a Sr. or upper classman anyway. Developing a raw athletic talent in to a "football player" in one season? Good luck! You might get some contributon out of him, or you might not. Now the quitting thing. Like another said: reasons=excuses. Outside a family catostrophic event, like the death of a parent, his quitting and the timing of it is suspect...no it's not suspect really. "Once is an aberration, Twice is a trend". I'll add: "Three times is a pattern." And I don't care if he quit the tiddly winks team, math team, tennis, track, whatever. Even the "individual" sports in HS are team format. He quit his track team 3 years running at crunch time. Now, you can view him as a possible cancer and just assume he'll quit and be happy if he contributes and doesn't quit, or you can meet him head on and hope you can coach this trait out of him. And it is a trait. SOMETHING in this kid lets him walk away from his team at crunch time. Fear of failure? Fear of success? He gets bored? Whatever! Seems to me that if you decide to take him on, he's a "project" on many levels. And it may be a failing project which is no reflection on you as a coach. Don't be blinded by him as an athlete thinking you got a diamond in the rough. Coach him like you do others and hope he is that. If you've been a positive influence on other kids before, you will be on this one, even if he can't play football or quits, you'll still have left some positive mark on him. In some "coach speak"...he sounds like a tremendous opportunity and a tremendous challenge. |
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Post by scoresalot on Apr 11, 2008 6:00:07 GMT -6
Something struck me when reading back through this thread. As high school coaches, aren't we in the business of educating kids and helping them become men. I know that we can't help everyone, but this young man has expressed interest. For a reason none of us know, he has walked away from track every year. Something is causing that. If someone doesn't work with this young man now, he will have a very difficult time being successful in life. You can't just walk away from everything and have success. As high school coaches, it is our job to try to help anyone who reaches out to us. This young man has reached out to you for whatever reason. Do what you can to help him? Obviously, you can't do it to the detrimant of your team, but as long as he does what he's supposed to, then you need to do for him what you, and we all, would do for any of our players, HELP THEM GROW INTO RESPONSIBLE YOUNG MEN, and hopefully into good teammates and players. Good luck!
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Post by touchdowng on Apr 12, 2008 0:52:20 GMT -6
Have him (or parents) give you a $1,000 deposit.
If he finishes the season, he gets it back
If he quits, all of the money goes to his church
I'm only half kidding here. ;D
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Post by unc31 on Apr 13, 2008 10:48:26 GMT -6
Coach, only you can make that call. Any kid on the team can quit on you. You just have to decide if it is worth your time and effort to train this kid with the knowledge that he may not see it through. If you build a relationship with him and emphasize character and commitment as well as football, that in itself may be the difference maker. Perhaps the other coaches he has had in track or whatever, have not built the relationship nor demanded an investment from him.....therefore it was easy to walk away.
As far as requiring anything extra from him? I think you would open yourself up to lots of problems if you required more from one kid than you do from all kids. jmo
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kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on Apr 13, 2008 13:45:39 GMT -6
I had a great conversation with the kid and his dad. The family is very religious - his parents are very protective and he has led a sheltered life - he does not "go out" with friends unless it is with his church. He has a very intensive academic load - 5/6 classes are accelerated / advanced placement (he already has 8 college credits) and maintains a 3.8 GPA. His priorities are faith/academics & family. Athletics are not even in the picture - he is a competitive and hard working kid (according to track coach - first to practice - last to leave - he has spent many extra hours working with & helping teammates - coach says "whatever I ask the kid to do he does and more." After talking to him & dad - he wants to play football because he knows I'm a Christian (through fca) and as a senior he wants to get more involved in school etc. The reason he quit track was academic (last year he had a national merit scholarship conference) church commitment (one year he chose a mission trip over districts) his freshman year he said he didn't understand the commitment and he felt we wasn't ready (scared?). Ive been coaching for almost 20 yrs so Ive seen plenty of 1st year seniors and I'm not about to play this kid over a kid who has put in 3 good years. There has been a lot of great advise - which I will consider - I'm just perplexed about a kid with so much physical / mental skills but he is very culturally / world view immature. The funny thing is our school is very urban - title I (60% free reduced lunch)- we have a lot of wanna-be gangsters etc. So the kid is exposed to this stuff in the hallway - however. he sticks to the AC wing of the building and does not "hang out" with the 3000+ knuckle heads. Although I know he does witness to kids before school. I also talked to our captains for next year and they know him (from track) and like him "coach we can use him", "coach he's really fast" (both from our best athletes & team leaders).
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 13, 2008 15:17:09 GMT -6
I had a great conversation with the kid and his dad. The family is very religious - his parents are very protective and he has led a sheltered life - he does not "go out" with friends unless it is with his church. He has a very intensive academic load - 5/6 classes are accelerated / advanced placement (he already has 8 college credits) and maintains a 3.8 GPA. His priorities are faith/academics & family. Athletics are not even in the picture - he is a competitive and hard working kid (according to track coach - first to practice - last to leave - he has spent many extra hours working with & helping teammates - coach says "whatever I ask the kid to do he does and more." After talking to him & dad - he wants to play football because he knows I'm a Christian (through fca) and as a senior he wants to get more involved in school etc. The reason he quit track was academic (last year he had a national merit scholarship conference) church commitment (one year he chose a mission trip over districts) his freshman year he said he didn't understand the commitment and he felt we wasn't ready (scared?). Ive been coaching for almost 20 yrs so Ive seen plenty of 1st year seniors and I'm not about to play this kid over a kid who has put in 3 good years. There has been a lot of great advise - which I will consider - I'm just perplexed about a kid with so much physical / mental skills but he is very culturally / world view immature. The funny thing is our school is very urban - title I (60% free reduced lunch)- we have a lot of wanna-be gangsters etc. So the kid is exposed to this stuff in the hallway - however. he sticks to the AC wing of the building and does not "hang out" with the 3000+ knuckle heads. Although I know he does witness to kids before school. I also talked to our captains for next year and they know him (from track) and like him "coach we can use him", "coach he's really fast" (both from our best athletes & team leaders). Let me take a wild gues here? Church of Christ? Hard to gig a kid for putting those things first huh? Even when he quits you when you need him most. "Coach, I got a church conference the first week of playoffs." What do you say? Nah, you got a real problem for the team on your hands if he's on your team in my opinion, assuming he's a difference maker. I've known plenty of guys that could balance it and put a real world perspective on in. Jay Barker QB, Alabama (1992 NC) is one such player. He's as committed to his faith and Christ as any man I've known, but when he committed to the team, he somehow managed to meet that commitment. One thing kids like this (and their families) don't seem to prioritize is church. They think they HAVE to be at every function, conference, etc. They can't seem to separate "The Church" and "Christianity". The athletes that can are the ones like Tim Tebow, who have a heavy emphasis on faith, religion and the church, but understand you can miss church a time or two and still be 100% committed to Christ. Christ aint the church, nor is the Church Christ. In other words, this kid has been told and learned that "The Church Team" comes before all. The thing is "The Jesus Team" can still come before all and yet co-exists with other commitments. "The Church Team" often, and sadly, wants to be the ONLY commitment. Sounds like a good kid that's been a little misguieded about religion. Christianity is a faith and religion, "The Church" is a business. |
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Post by coachweav88 on Apr 16, 2008 7:54:05 GMT -6
Coach,
I worked in youth ministry for 3 years and also played football at a Christian college. I always hated to see when someone quit in the name of "follwing Jesus."
Matthew 5:37
"Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one."
Proverbs 25:14 "A person who promises a gift but doesn’t give it is like clouds and wind that bring no rain."
Proverbs 19:22
Loyalty makes a person attractive.It is better to be poor than dishonest.
Proverbs 17:17
A friend is always loyal,and a brother is born to help in time of need.
Proverbs 20:6
Many will say they are loyal friends,but who can find one who is truly reliable?
Ecclesiastes 9:10
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
Colossians 3:23
Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men,
(including sports)
If the kid makes a commitment, he had better keep it!! You can be as "religious" as you want, but followers of Jesus Christ follow through on their commitments. Loyalty is something that is completely lacking in our churches. If you can't keep a commitment to a person who you can see, how in the world are you going to be able to keep a commitment to God who you can't physically see? It makes me so mad because I think it gives people an inaccurate view of what following Christ is all about. Followers of Christ should know how to be loyal. For crying out loud, these are the same people who have pledged their lives to Jesus no matter what. These same people who can pledge their lives to Jesus, can't follow through on a simple commitment to a team? That doesn't jive with me. The time to judge whether a sport or endeavor will conflict with following Christ is BEFORE you start, not after you've made the commitment. So if this kid is strong in his faith, commitment should not be an issue with him.
Sorry about the soap box. I just don't like to see Jesus' name be used as an excuse for not being committed.
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Post by coachweav88 on Apr 16, 2008 8:00:33 GMT -6
sorry, accidentally sent the same message twice
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Post by fatkicker on Apr 16, 2008 8:08:58 GMT -6
this may sound wrong....
but i don't trust people when they openly speak about their religion the first time i meet them.....especially in sports......
God told me to sign this contract.....NO......your CPA told you to sign that 80 million dollar contract......
God wants me to give back to the community.....NO.....your publicist told you to do something positive so the newspaper would have something to say other than you being arrested........
God told me to take this head coaching position.....NO.....you were tired of teaching 6 classes and coaching 3 sports.....now, you have an opportunity to make more money, teach less, and coach only 1 sport.......your wife told you take the job, so you could see her more during the school year.......
and kids will use this as a crutch to get out of workouts that they don't want to do.....
i bet if you gave away free cheeseburgers on wednesday night church wouldn't be that important.....
but if you had to run 25 sprints at the end of practice, little johnny would say he needs to leave early and miss the running......"can't be late for church!!!!"
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Post by coachweav88 on Apr 16, 2008 8:16:09 GMT -6
but i don't trust people when they openly speak about their religion the first time i meet them.....especially in sports...... Fat kicker, I agree. I'd much rather see someone live out their faith (e.g. follow through on commitments, put the team ahead of themselves, work hard, never give up, be disciplined, not back down from anyone) then preach a sermon any day. We must be good news before we can share good news |
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Post by kurtbryan on Apr 16, 2008 8:46:19 GMT -6
As coaches it is IN our blood to help kids...But that being said, there are some kids in certain situations that are unreachable and/or no matter what you do or say, you cannot change their mind.
"You can lead a horse to water...."
Say your peace to him, have two or three of your captains meet with him alone and let it go from there. Treat everybody equal and let the cards fall.
KB
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Post by gacoach on Apr 16, 2008 9:05:08 GMT -6
I've always been of the belief that once you start quitting, it gets easier each time you do.
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 16, 2008 20:15:43 GMT -6
Coach, I worked in youth ministry for 3 years and also played football at a Christian college. I always hated to see when someone quit in the name of "follwing Jesus." Matthew 5:37 "Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one." Proverbs 25:14 "A person who promises a gift but doesn’t give it is like clouds and wind that bring no rain." Proverbs 19:22 Loyalty makes a person attractive.It is better to be poor than dishonest. Proverbs 17:17 A friend is always loyal,and a brother is born to help in time of need. Proverbs 20:6 Many will say they are loyal friends,but who can find one who is truly reliable? Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom. Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, (including sports) If the kid makes a commitment, he had better keep it!! You can be as "religious" as you want, but followers of Jesus Christ follow through on their commitments. Loyalty is something that is completely lacking in our churches. If you can't keep a commitment to a person who you can see, how in the world are you going to be able to keep a commitment to God who you can't physically see? It makes me so mad because I think it gives people an inaccurate view of what following Christ is all about. Followers of Christ should know how to be loyal. For crying out loud, these are the same people who have pledged their lives to Jesus no matter what. These same people who can pledge their lives to Jesus, can't follow through on a simple commitment to a team? That doesn't jive with me. The time to judge whether a sport or endeavor will conflict with following Christ is BEFORE you start, not after you've made the commitment. So if this kid is strong in his faith, commitment should not be an issue with him. Sorry about the soap box. I just don't like to see Jesus' name be used as an excuse for not being committed. GREAT POST! A Christian doesn't make conflicting commitments, then choose one over the other...and doesn't quit a previous committment when another opportunity to commit comes along. Hiding behind the Church or Religion to do so is just wrong. But, Coach should be aware that he's not fighting the kid, but his parents, and a Church that promotes itself over all else. |
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Post by coachroberts99 on Apr 17, 2008 9:15:33 GMT -6
I agree with most the guys, invite him along, lay down the same rules as everyone else and see how it goes.... don't treat him special or different because you think he might be good.
As someone on here told me, "potential means you aint done {censored} yet"
However the fact he quit track a few times just says to me he may just not really want to do track... maybe he gets bored of it, especially if it's so easy to him, perhaps football will give him the challange he needs?
Good luck with him.
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