|
|
Post by Coach Bruce on Jun 25, 2007 8:40:21 GMT -6
I was coaching Wr's and Te's in Youth (midget) league. I have been asked to take over a pee wee (9-10) year old team. I have been head coach of a flag team before but that was way different. Any advice? Help? Advice? Words of Wisdom? Advice?
|
|
|
|
Post by triploption on Jun 25, 2007 9:31:18 GMT -6
I would start off by getting some help....assistants and such. Then I would get together find a good youth based offense and defense. The idea is to be prepared as much as you can. Keep it simple, for you and the kids.....Dont over complicate things, after all you are coaching a youth team.....Make sure the kids have fun....I almost quit playing after my pee wee year. NOW WHAT I AM ABOUT TO TELL YOU IS VERY IMPORTANT. Draft a parent letter that outlines your season.....what you expect from the kids, and more importantly what you expect from the parents. You need to be firm on this......THERE WILL BE NO YELLING AT ME, CONFRONTING ME HITTING ME, DURING A PRACTICE OR GAME OR EVER IN FRONT OF THE KIDS. If the parents need to speak with you about anything it is always away from the kids. You put this all in the letter.....and then you have them sign it. I am serious about that. This way they cannot use the excuse that they didnt know. I hope this helps. There are other little things you can do....just keep it fun for these kids, so that next year they can t wait to get back on the field and play the greatest game EVER!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Coach Bruce on Jun 25, 2007 9:54:08 GMT -6
So I am correct in feeling that instead of playing studs both ways that I can play ALL my guys? 11 starters on "O" and 11 DIFFERENT starters on "D"?
I wanna run split backs. Some misdirection runs..flood passes. Maybe some sprintout to flood...what offense would you recomend? And thanks for the letter idea. Sounds great.
|
|
|
|
Post by triploption on Jun 25, 2007 11:13:05 GMT -6
I have seen youth coaches attempt to play 11 on offense and 11 different kids on defense. Fact is there just aren't that many talented kids too choose from, at least where I play. I usually have a core of about 10 kids that are pretty solid. The rest you fill in with average to below average talent. I always look for the kid who is most athletic but maybe doesn't have a clue about football. I can teach him the game....hard to teach kids to be better athletes. I am also a big believer in smaller linemen for 2 reasons.....I I like to pull my line man and 2 it is hard physically for for them to come out of there 3 point stance. Their first movement is straight up....to relieve the stress on the knees, more times than not they just get in the way of the play. I am personally running the Wild Bunch offense....sort of a combination of wing-t and the bunch passing game. Hard to recommend 1 particular offense. There are many places here where can find information on certain schemes. I would find an offense stick with it and then keep it simple simple simple. Better to run 8 plays great than 16 plays OK.
|
|
|
|
Post by Coach Bruce on Jun 25, 2007 13:04:59 GMT -6
Thin that 9-10 yo's can run Wild bunch successfully. I have read alot of it and have spoken briefly via email with ted seay about it and liked it on 12-14 yo level...what say ye?
|
|
|
|
Post by triploption on Jun 25, 2007 13:22:35 GMT -6
You need to speak to Jim his name is snibblet on the WB forum. He won a championship running the WB at your age group. Remember , you still have the fly and rocket sweep along with the dives and the QB waggle which is a killer at the youth level. The base pass plays are pretty simple...I believe it is very possible to run the WB at your age. I am coaching 12's and I see no problem what so ever. Think about this. The hardest thing to do in football is cover a receiver, at any age.....at the youth level it is a nightmare. Your QB and receivers no what spot the ball is going to be thrown....the defense on the other hand is clueless. Just my observation.
|
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Jun 25, 2007 13:51:39 GMT -6
I will disagree the hardest thing to do in youth ball is cover a reciever, we dont find that to be very difficult at all. In the 4 different leagues I have coached in at that age group the passing is very inconsistent. My last 4 teams have had more Ints than the opposition has had completions. A passing based offense is left to the mercy of having a stud QB drop in your lap every year and making sure he shows up and is healthy each and every game for the whole game. That is youth football, you don't have a JV of frosh teams to send a kids down to, yu have limited practice time, limited roster sizes and you cant cut anyone, you get what you get and that's it.
A poll I did of over 50 youth coaches from that age group showed that the competitive teams from their leagues threw on average 5 passes or less per game.
If you have a great accurrate, durable injury free thrower that's great you may be able to run the WB. However, lots of 3 and outs and turnovers spell disaster in youth football. In our first game last year the opposing team went 0-31 passing the ball, and they werent that bad. We throw less than most, but nearly always lead the league in TD passses, the playaction, waggle or run pass option is the way to go at that age.
We have gone 62-2 with my last 6 teams in that age group running the Single Wing Offense and averaging about 40 points per game, the kids love it. Lots of scoring and we are able to get a lot of kids the ball. The keys are the blocking, and overwhelming the point of attack, not the backfield action and relying on the assumption you will have studs at certain positions every year. Run 3-4 play SERIES, not the 20 coolest plays youve seen. Perfection of a hanfull of complementary plays are how the successful teams do it.
We may have as few as 8 and as many as 16 plays to use for the entire season. Its really all about practice priorities ( lots of defense and special teams) and great blocking and tackling at that age. Put em in a scheme they can have some fun and success in. If you dont have the kids to go one on one all over the field and you put em into a scheme of "block somebody or block the guy in front of you one on one" blocking scheme, it can be a long season.
|
|
|
|
Post by triploption on Jun 25, 2007 14:07:59 GMT -6
Dave, dont get me wrong. I am not implying that a youth team pass the ball 20 times a game. I think thats where most people assume that the Wild Bunch is this super pass intensive offense. It can be if you choose, however the running game in the WB is fantastic. The fly rocket sweep and the dives and off tackle slam. Add to that the shotgun, which is what I have decided to do and you can actually incorporate some single wing half spin and full spin off the fly. I simply told him what offense I was running but that there are many to choose from, but whatever it be, as a coach learn it forwards and backwards......inside and out. I still say the hardest thing to do in youth football is cover a receiver. When a youth team does pass the ball it is usually after the run has set it up...and when the ball is snapped the kids are looking for the run...and a simple bubble screen or flat route, which does not require a stud to throw.......is wide open. Im not suggesting pass it all day long, but to have some pass plays in the arsenal and when you use them....they usually work great.......and then at least it will keep them honest.......hence the running game becomes more effective......just my 2 cents
|
|
|
|
Post by Coach Bruce on Jun 25, 2007 15:54:48 GMT -6
Where could an unknowing guy such as myself view these plays?
|
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Jun 25, 2007 17:56:53 GMT -6
As far as starting 22 different kids, not so sure about that. Im not big on letting 11 studs go both ways either.
On a team of 24 kids I usually start about 17 different kids. Everyone has an offensive and defensive position. We run a scheme on offense and defense that does not require a stud player at every position, so we can start weaker kids at several positions without embarrassing them or dramatically hurting the competitiveness of the team. Of the remaining 7 each will have an offensive and defensive postion but we will get him into the game for certain on one side of the ball for a certain number of plays no matter the games outcome. Each of the non starters is assigned to the OC or DC to make sure he gets his plays. I've done this in leagues that did not have minimum play rules and now in one that does. IMHO if the kid comes to practice he gets to play in the games, but not as much as the kid outpracticing and outplaying him.
We usually have about 5 kids that play quite a bit both ways but we sub for them situationally to get them a breather and get other kids playing time. Have to plan for it, practice it and execute it, like anythng else. We sub 2 players nearly every play at age 8-10 and on some 3-4, we practice the heck out of it and have the right schemes to accomodate it
As to the offense you use, it depends on the talent levels you have. More talent = more space. Since our talent varies so much from year to year but we consistently do not have much size, we have to rely on double team blocks, wedge blocking, traps and pulling to the POA. I also have to train 30+ new coaches every year and I can't learn and teach a new system that is talent dependent with any credibility every year. We run the Single Wing Offense, short shotgun Single Wing and its deceptive as all get out.
|
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Jun 25, 2007 18:19:55 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by los on Jun 25, 2007 19:10:02 GMT -6
Good stuff Dave. nice execution there for little guys!
|
|
|
|
Post by casec11 on Jun 27, 2007 13:18:42 GMT -6
Coach bruce forums.delphiforums.com/TedSeayCoach Ted is on this site also There are plenty of Youth teams that are succesfull passing.... No mater what offense you run, it all comes down to coaching... If you can coach the passing game properly you can be successful. If not you may be blown out more than you would as a running team. but remember youth Defenses are geared to stop the run(6-2,5-3). BTW: Dave that tall kid has a heck of a break awy stride |
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Jun 27, 2007 14:14:43 GMT -6
95% of his runs no one is anywhere near him to even make a tackle. Ive had the same results with 5 different teams 5 different leagues, different BB than in the one film.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachjim on Jun 30, 2007 22:46:56 GMT -6
Very nice. Dave, were you as successful without the shotgun in that series? Obviously, those video's only show the good moments but i'm interested if you went to the shotgun because without it the defense was getting through to quickly. I'll be running the same offense without the shotgun but all those touchdowns have got me thinking you learned the hard way about something along the way and switched.
Or is it just your preference?
|
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Jul 2, 2007 7:57:55 GMT -6
Well, in all seriousness, we have much better clips on our 2006 season. My teams went 62-2 in that stretch and in 2003 scored on every possession of every game, even with backups. In 2006 we scored 3 TDs in the first quarter of 9 games, so our offense has been very consistent the last 6 seasons on every team I took and in 5 different leagues. In 2005 we blew everyone out including 2 "Select" league champs that choose from over 125 kids ( We arent select, int he rural area I coach in now, we take everyone, no cuts etc. )
We are in "shotgun" because this is the Single Wing offense and with foot to foot splits, we rarely get much penetration. We get to the hole a WHOLE lot faster without the burdens of an intermediary (QB) handling the ball. We hit it so quick, just 1 negative yardage play with my first team offense in last 6 seasons.
http://_
|
|
|
|
Post by dolomite on Jul 11, 2007 1:15:25 GMT -6
Well, in all seriousness, we have much better clips on our 2006 season. My teams went 62-2 in that stretch and in 2003 scored on every possession of every game, even with backups. In 2006 we scored 3 TDs in the first quarter of 9 games, so our offense has been very consistent the last 6 seasons on every team I took and in 5 different leagues. In 2005 we blew everyone out including 2 "Select" league champs that choose from over 125 kids ( We arent select, int he rural area I coach in now, we take everyone, no cuts etc. ) We are in "shotgun" because this is the Single Wing offense and with foot to foot splits, we rarely get much penetration. We get to the hole a WHOLE lot faster without the burdens of an intermediary (QB) handling the ball. We hit it so quick, just 1 negative yardage play with my first team offense in last 6 seasons. http://_ Great accomplishment, I coach on the hs and youth level and I get a little p-oed when youth guys can tell you their stats and brag about blowing teams out. If I was up by a substantial amount I would make sure we didn't score, been there done that. No offense but your motives don't sound very pure. Lets not confuse why we are working with these kids 1. To teach kids the fundamentals of football 2. To make better young men If you know your stats verbatim I question your, or anyones intentions. It is coaches like that, that ruin the sport for so many youngsters. At this level you should never take pride in blowing people out. Please don't tell me that you couldn't stop your kids from scoring, doing so would have taught your boys some humility. |
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Jul 11, 2007 5:05:08 GMT -6
Im afraid you have no idea of why I coach etc The record is known because when I tell my coaches how and why to do things they want to know it works. I started a free program from scratch by myself in the inner-city of Omaha now with over 400 kids playing, 6 figures of my own money out of my own pocket, not paid back. Free, doesnt cost the kids a dime, including shoes. Start up is very tough, recruited all the kids, coaches, training, fields,legal, equipment. 1000s of hours of time, who washes all the gear and cleans 450 helmets ? Me screamingeaglefootball.comGiven away over 200 computers to underprivledged kids based on our weekly academic accountability program, manage and train over 70 coaches every year, give and get jobs to a select group of our kids every year, huge community service prioject every year and personally coach 1-2 teams every year onl top of managng it all. Not to mention stuffing 8-10 sweaty kids in my vehicle every day, counseling sessions for the kids, teacher meetings , open houses, field trips, who packs and pays for 300 lunches? Me. My personal team last year saw 13 different kids score TDS and 20 of the 22 carry the ball, ( 2 other couldnt over the ball carrier weight) , eveyone kicked off and 17 different kids tried PAT kicks, we could have easliy scored 50-60 points in every game but one as we scored 3 TDs in the first quarter of 9 games, but I am beyond merciful and sub generously as well as tell refs to flag us on purpose if we get too far ahead. Way wrong on this Im afraid, in it for the right reasons and given more than most anyone. Unlike HS or College coaches I dont get paid to do this, it costs me a ton of money to do. BTW own kid only played 2 of 15 years Ive coached. Couldnt be more wrong. |
|
|
|
Post by dolomite on Jul 11, 2007 11:14:34 GMT -6
Im afraid you have no idea of why I coach etc The record is known because when I tell my coaches how and why to do things they want to know it works. I started a free program from scratch by myself in the inner-city of Omaha now with over 400 kids playing, 6 figures of my own money out of my own pocket, not paid back. Free, doesnt cost the kids a dime, including shoes. Start up is very tough, recruited all the kids, coaches, training, fields,legal, equipment. 1000s of hours of time, who washes all the gear and cleans 450 helmets ? Me screamingeaglefootball.comGiven away over 200 computers to underprivledged kids based on our weekly academic accountability program, manage and train over 70 coaches every year, give and get jobs to a select group of our kids every year, huge community service prioject every year and personally coach 1-2 teams every year onl top of managng it all. Not to mention stuffing 8-10 sweaty kids in my vehicle every day, counseling sessions for the kids, teacher meetings , open houses, field trips, who packs and pays for 300 lunches? Me. My personal team last year saw 13 different kids score TDS and 20 of the 22 carry the ball, ( 2 other couldnt over the ball carrier weight) , eveyone kicked off and 17 different kids tried PAT kicks, we could have easliy scored 50-60 points in every game but one as we scored 3 TDs in the first quarter of 9 games, but I am beyond merciful and sub generously as well as tell refs to flag us on purpose if we get too far ahead. Way wrong on this Im afraid, in it for the right reasons and given more than most anyone. Unlike HS or College coaches I dont get paid to do this, it costs me a ton of money to do. BTW own kid only played 2 of 15 years Ive coached. Couldnt be more wrong. I guess I could've taken a better tact. When I read your post my response was to that. I have no reason not to believe you. It sounds like you're doing some pretty great things for your kids. Let me extend my hand in apology. I too help out with a pay league here in town. Most of our kids can't afford to play. We have simply made it happen. Could you give me some pointers on how you achieved this? I am trying like heck to raise money so our underprivileged kids can play. I purchased t-shirts for our team out of my own pocket and handed them out yesterday. I am a young coach with a young family and can't afford to keep shelling out my bill money. Please send me some suggestions via IM. I guess I jumped the gun on you. I really didn't realize how confrontational I sounded until I just read my last post. Again, sorry!!! |
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Jul 11, 2007 12:05:53 GMT -6
Accepted.
Was blessed with a good job etc.
We did not fundraise to any big extent, cant offer you much help there. I found most of it when dealing with inner-city kids was more trouble than it was worth, little return, big effort etc. I added up all the hours and figured it was easier raising the money by putting that time in at work.
It raises my cockles as well when I know we could have won 10 of 12 games by 50-60 and we didnt and even let 7 teams score on purpose, not perfect, but we do it right.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachjim on Jul 13, 2007 6:55:10 GMT -6
Dave: "We are in "shotgun" because this is the Single Wing offense and with foot to foot splits, we rarely get much penetration. We get to the hole a WHOLE lot faster without the burdens of an intermediary (QB) handling the ball. We hit it so quick, just 1 negative yardage play with my first team offense in last 6 seasons."
RE: Ah. I've got the jet series so i'm hoping for the momentary indesicion and misdirection advantage of the triple option type attack, especially with the jet guy. I already know it will be a second slower and the play action hard to complete well unless repped to death with some speed. Ted recommends one foot split as well, like with your series; we'll be mostly down blocking playside so that should open stuff up at angles.
In this type of series (8-10ys.) on playside, do you also advocate this close alignment with the feet or think the quickness of the G +T's plays a part. Last year all we had we're kids struggling to make the weight and we're slow. (We ran the I and they couldn't move, no less creat a hole.)
btw, I applaud your philanthropic effort, success, and selflessness. A question... I just can't help but ask it and think I already know the answer, but... would you have had the heart, reserve, and fortitude to persevere with 0 -9 records? Just curious. I'm not sure I could. I love and volunteer youth too, but losses gnaw at your drive. Even if its just about fun and fundamentals.
Hrm, I am running out of the 80 series later on as well, now that might be ideal for the QB to be back... any thoughts?
gl this season, Coach.
|
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on Jul 13, 2007 19:32:51 GMT -6
I dont like to offer advice without having tested the theory. We are foot to foot splits and we have not run any jet series yet out of "shotgun". I have a lot of faith in anything Ted Seay says, Im sure he has tried it and it works. If your jet back has a ton of speed and gets depth you probably could get away with wider splits, but Ive never done it.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachjim on Jul 19, 2007 23:13:23 GMT -6
*nod* Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by raiderpirates on Mar 31, 2008 3:42:03 GMT -6
More than one back, so you have an extra blocker and can run misdirection or counters. The best blocker can often become a solid play action target from a lead series as well.
Two tight ends as well. Especially splitting that narrow.
We had spacing just under a foot(shoe length between players) and zoned. Wider splits were my preference but the HC didn't want to do that. He had trouble using counts effectively(always tried using it as a way of drawing offsides instead of quick counts paired with cadence counts). Had the count calls been used effectively we could have spaced wider, he's yet to solve why teams are all over his counts. First sound, going off set, etc, work best for me if we want to continue the same (or any other)system.
The second TE was my idea, the narrow spacing meant the wide LB was getting to the ball, he'd always cheat the slot over on runs and it gave away the play call anyways. Going big widened the distance to get there, gave their SS fits, allowed the slower developing crossbucks and lead fakes to work wonders. It hid the intent of plays and we doubled our points and tripled our yardage.
We usually put an extra OL or blocker type as the second TE and kept their spots consistent so the star TE(best pass catcher, tallest and fastest) could always have a consistent set to start from opposite. He read his release and coverage so well we'd run him on isolation/option routes and reverses, amazing cutback vision on his part.
The WR caught less, they were going at an 80-90% clip using my routes but the other coach wanted "to simplify" it and went from using smash(inside/slant release, skinnied out like a go or skinny post, then cornered back outside atop the route's stem) to a straight GO and we spent more time chasing missed passes then we did throwing after that. We completed 8 or 9 of every ten even though our own DB knew the route coming, from the way players used their release and read the space to throw open, when we used the smash concept consistently. Our percentages for the route on the sprints in early games and scrimmages was in the 70% range as well. Some guys fall in love with calling pocket passes for routes that aren't open.
Anyways, the two TE let you run a lot of the wide sweeps and those horizontal fakes were great for setting up a reverse or counter/cross buck.
We'd get teams wanting to come over the edge to the wr side so much that we could fake leads and get a good 15-20 yard pass off simple FB flats. It worked to the strong TE's side because they came to expect runs there and the flanker would split wide that side and clear. It worked to our passing end's side because the TE to that side could hold the SS on Tez's pass side like STICK concepts do(even though he ran corners or post, until they changed it to a GO for far fewer completions as well). He was really good at getting his man turned on a block for enough time to allow the lead back to reach the point, he'd release and drive the SS after that and still get out on his route, and he almost always drew double teams to that side as a reflex so the backs could find ways to get out to a lot of open space.
We lost every one of our top 3 skills(actually Tez's talent matched theirs he was TE and blocked well enough to be an OL). Now we're planning on making the WR into a QB(DeMarco) and moving up our youngest player (Tino) to flanker. Our prior Qb ran so well that we could have a few simple routes and he'd run it past that, this year we'll have a bit less downfield throwing and more control stuff. We need to find ways of getting the ball to more small players out in space and mix it up with a bit less dynamic runners and more inside emphasis from the backs.
That leaves us needing two RB(three counting depth demands). Plans look to put in place one of our younger DB as a back(BooMan- Boo holds onto the ball we might have the slasher we need at HB, he's a bit rough on running routes and other items though) and both coaches want their sons(OL) to play TE or RB. The one best fit for that was our LT and really not replaceable there. Our 6th OL spotted starts at 3 different positions,(disciplinary or family leave). Having our G/2ndTE Everett is going to full time skill, his knee best hold up he got it injured wrestling at home w/his neighbor Boo. We basically had us seven OL for what was effectively 5-6 positions(4 in rotation on D). Moving two out of that probably kills a great depth of rotation, and the C said he may not return, he's ready for the next level. He may get less reps there than we get here(I know that for certain) but he will do well, very coachable and high character and I prefer he get on a first name basis with his coach and their system. So their plans of moving both the OL suited sets to skill may have to be reviewed anyways.
If he has to do it I'd rather put the T to one of the TE spots so we can run single wing or split double TE. Great potential there, great frame, quickness, power, and 'good enough' straight line speed to be among the special teams tackles leaders as a wedge buster.
The OL has some real characters playing. Some kids who are physically tough and take nothing from nobody, but have learned restraint for the most part and see their actions as something with purpose to it. Others are gentle giants with wrestling backgrounds or experience from other states down to pop warner age. We have a lot of young kids working around them at skill, and an lot of beef blocking for them. It's going to make for interesting contrasts and chemistry.
We ended up putting one of rotation TE opposite Tez at G late when an injury occurred and someone was out of town, he was nicknamed "whiff" by his teammates for missing some tackles. He improved with instruction, and was quite coachable, and probably has hit his own growing spree. It's my hope he's the one we can put at end more, at G we could hide some of his stance and leverage issues by helping him, he was kind of awkward in the tweener mode in terms of physical attributes, that's probably changed now. My OL were good at adding some leverage his way, they would do a hybrid combo start if no one was on them and straighten out whoever you had, stopping their charge and/or getting the player's pads up, and they also helped keeping him squared to his assigned blocker.
Narrowed splits helped that, it puts the help closer. Against truly dominant DL that can hurt the scheme, he'll take up two and often still get near the ball with his reach. If you do narrow splits it helps address defensive penetration. You still need to widen the line ends out from the effect of shorter spacing. Double tight addresses that. You should be able to pull from those sets, and will trap less unless it's on the edge.
My preference is wider spacing, it creates more interior room and reduces the danger of the edge rush. Too wide a spacing set and you can't really pull as much. More the center leads the way you want to pull, and linemen learn to play softer shoulders the side they want defenders to move. Learn to shape influence and switch with the C, and still emphasize the line importance of beating those two and three techs to the point.
As for the classic counter gap, wide spacing is essential to it? That reverse step I've read about here sounds like the perfect technique to address the problems we had coming off narrow splits. It seems this should work for either item, trey for wide splits or pulling for any item in tight spacing.
|
|
