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Post by ajreaper on May 9, 2007 11:22:54 GMT -6
This is primarily for HC but the thoughts of all would be appreciated as well.
In regard to staffing lower level programs- frosh & JV while admitting each is important which level would you want to place your best coaching talent? Your best HC ect?
I would love to have 2 exceptional experienced coaching staffs but that's not always possible so my priority is the freshman staff-they are the face of high school football for kids entering your program- a poor job done here can lose you kids and create poor habits that may be very difficult or impossible to correct. I'd choose to place the bulk of my coaching talent here and try to ensure they have an exceptional experience and are excited and looking forward to the rest of their time within the program. I guess my position is if one staff will suffer a bit it'll be the JV one.
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Post by coachjd on May 9, 2007 11:25:36 GMT -6
AMEN!!
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Post by brophy on May 9, 2007 11:30:32 GMT -6
IMO....
Going in...I'd HAVE to take two other guys I trust. Those two guys would head the Sophs & Freshmen. If no Sophs, then BOTH at Freshmen level (hopefully, TWO freshmen teams).
On game nights, THOSE TWO are in the booth for me helping my DC & OC get the whole picture.
JV is about giving the position coaches opportunities to be coordinators.
It's not about what the Frosh/JV/Varsity does....its who the PROGRAM performs.
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Post by coachveer on May 9, 2007 12:09:47 GMT -6
You can't have a weak freshman HC. It will just kill ya down the road.
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Post by jhanawa on May 9, 2007 13:01:08 GMT -6
IMO, if you have a good frosh coach/program, then your JV coaches will be supplied with numbers and quality. If you have a bad frosh coach/program, then it probably won't matter what you have for coaches on the JV level because your numbers, talent and fundemental players will be lacking from non development at the frosh level. No brainer to me.
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Post by fbdoc on May 9, 2007 13:11:47 GMT -6
When you look at some of the HS dynansty programs, very often you have a 9th grade coach (or coacehs) who has been with that team for 20-25 years. The instruction they receive from these guys is part of the reason that the HS team stays dominating year after year. Finding a coach to fill this critical position on your staff is one of the toughest challenges a HC can face.
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Post by kloranc on May 9, 2007 14:22:45 GMT -6
It seems like a lot of programs have former varsity coaches with a lot of experience at the freshman HC, especially the guys who still want to coach, but may not want to put in quite the number of hours that varsity coaches put in sometimes. I learned a lot from the freshman head coach my first few years of coaching when I was still in the junior high.
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Post by coachcalande on May 10, 2007 7:43:45 GMT -6
Ill be honest, I put in a TON OF HOURS as a frosh coach. I ran my own wt program, conditioning program, open gyms, film sessions, recruiting , even fund raisers, ...I think in the end I will probably be about even in number of hours put in as a frosh coach. The good ones will watch practice film, game film, scout and film for your, scout and film their own oponnent and basically run the frosh program as a mini version of the hs program. I think the biggest thing a frosh coach can do for the varsity is teach a love of the game, instill discipline and pride, win enough to keep the kids feeling that they are winners, play enough kids to keep them interested and motivated, teach and teach and teach some more...its aweful nice for a varsity coach to inherit linemen that can fold, trap, combo, reach etc. Its great to get linebackers that are familiar wiht back reads and guard reads ...good coaches breed good people and good players.
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Post by jhanawa on May 10, 2007 10:38:28 GMT -6
Steve, well said. I'm going to be in the same boat next year (frosh HC) with the same attitude, mini program within a program. My question to you is how effective were you in raising money at the frosh level? With kids showing up in August, it will be difficult to raise money before the season, in season should be ok. I haven't seen the equipment that we'll be issued at the frosh level yet (I'm almost afraid to, inner city school without much of a budget). I'm assuming it will be garbage and I'll probably end up wanting to replace it, and in August that will be difficult to do. I'm open to ideas.  |
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Post by kloranc on May 10, 2007 10:48:23 GMT -6
I definitely don't want to suggest that freshman coaches don't put in a lot of hours. The coach i was talking about worked very hard and was a committed coach, but he didn't have to be up at the office on Sundays any more. A good freshman HC that is fundamentally sound and loyal to the program is absolutely vital to the success of the program.
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Post by coachcalande on May 10, 2007 11:12:39 GMT -6
NO different than varsity coaches, some put in more time than others for sure. I would agree that a weak frosh program will hurt your chances for success over the long haul.
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Post by briangilbert on May 10, 2007 11:33:48 GMT -6
Hire guys that come from winning programs, I'm not a HC but that is what I would do.
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Post by ajreaper on May 10, 2007 12:23:45 GMT -6
Ill be honest, I put in a TON OF HOURS as a frosh coach. I ran my own wt program, conditioning program, open gyms, film sessions, recruiting , even fund raisers, ...I think in the end I will probably be about even in number of hours put in as a frosh coach. The good ones will watch practice film, game film, scout and film for your, scout and film their own oponnent and basically run the frosh program as a mini version of the hs program. I think the biggest thing a frosh coach can do for the varsity is teach a love of the game, instill discipline and pride, win enough to keep the kids feeling that they are winners, play enough kids to keep them interested and motivated, teach and teach and teach some more...its aweful nice for a varsity coach to inherit linemen that can fold, trap, combo, reach etc. Its great to get linebackers that are familiar wiht back reads and guard reads ...good coaches breed good people and good players. Coach you and I are mirror images of each other in regard to how we do things. I mean to a "T". My staff and I had an opportunity to scout a couple of opponents this past year and at one school their AD asked why we were there and we explained we played the team his guys were playing later in the season and he laughed because we'd driven an hour to scout a freshman team (the team in question and my guys were both 5-0 when we met we beat them 50-15 and it wasn't that close of a game). I'm going to do everything to prepare a team to be successful regardless of level- all good coaches do. |
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Post by tog on May 10, 2007 12:48:09 GMT -6
Hire guys that come from winning programs, I'm not a HC but that is what I would do. this doesn't necessarily equate to them being good coaches or not sometimes it just means they are loaded with talent sometimes it means they have kids that can remember everything under the sun that was ever taught to them, and they have work ethic if you are at a place without those two things, then your chances of being able to turn it around are slim, but hiring people based solely on them being from winning programs is not sound I would really look at the WHY is it a winning program. Does their staff really do a good job? Or do they do good despite the coaching for whatever reason? Really, it boils down to finding people that will work hard and that love kids and this game, then allowing them to have some ownership and get them invested in the program so 1. they will want to stay 2. they can continue to grow on their own |
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Post by briangilbert on May 10, 2007 13:03:07 GMT -6
Alright then I guess I was too vague...
Hire guys from winning programs that are also good coaches.
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Post by groundchuck on May 10, 2007 14:46:07 GMT -6
IMO you need yourself as the HC and then your best/most knowledgable assistant on the varsity with you. Then the next two best coaches are at the 9th and 10th grade.
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Post by khalfie on May 10, 2007 15:39:34 GMT -6
I agree with ground chuck...
And would go one step forward... put your best coaches on varsity... and make sure your presence is felt with the lower levels, and you will be okay...
Have a couple of programs in my area that are just horrible at the lower levels... but once they get to varsity, they become world beaters... the kids know who they are playing for... seem to buy their time with their lower level coaches... and when they step up to the lights... all of a sudden they turn it on!
Now, I'm not saying, don't get the best coaches available... what I am saying is... take care of varsity first... if you have great coaches... put them there... and let the coaching filter down from there...
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2007 15:51:33 GMT -6
The school I coached at in 05 had two freshmen coaches with almost sixty years combined experience!! One was the program's former HC who wanted to mentor the current HC, but without the added pressure; the other one spent years as a varsity assistant, but wanted a lighter workload. The kids and program benefit from this setup immensely!!
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Post by coache67 on May 14, 2007 9:28:32 GMT -6
And when you do that and they still don't grow on their own?
What is the best way to go about telling them?
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Post by ajreaper on May 14, 2007 10:38:30 GMT -6
LOL, I'm sorry but coaching does not filter down quickly enough in my opinion- you can lose 2-3 classes waiting for coaching to "filter down". You need to have at least one experienced hard charger to rally the staff and keep things on track. In the long run that'll pay bigger dividends then having that coach on the varsity staff. It's a balance for sure but you'd better be paying attnetion to it.
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Post by khalfie on May 14, 2007 11:51:48 GMT -6
LOL, I'm sorry but coaching does not filter down quickly enough in my opinion- you can lose 2-3 classes waiting for coaching to "filter down". You need to have at least one experienced hard charger to rally the staff and keep things on track. In the long run that'll pay bigger dividends then having that coach on the varsity staff. It's a balance for sure but you'd better be paying attnetion to it. All right coach... you talk a good game, but tell me this... You have a program of 90 kids... Frosh, JV, and Varsity... You have 4 coaches that have head coaching ability and know the game... 2 coaches that have coached for years, but have been doing it just for the paycheck, no clinics, no summers, just fall/football time... and 2 coaches that are newbies... Where do you put them? |
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Post by coachveer on May 14, 2007 12:06:03 GMT -6
I have 2 models.
Varsity
3 HC types and 1 Experence. HC also the OC/DC/OL each must all have HC type quailites.
JV and Freshman would practice together.
HC type OC for both Freshman and Sophmores
1 ex works DC
2 newbies..
2nd model based on Varsitiy/JV together and Freshman by themselves
V/JV 3 HC/1 ex/2 newbies
Freshman
1 HC and 1 ex.
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Post by ajreaper on May 14, 2007 12:20:53 GMT -6
Well do the "newbies" know the game? Did they play at least high school ball and perhaps college? If that's the case they have a knowledge base and likely are full of {censored} and vingar so you are not hurt having them coach at any level to include varsity. Do the two in season only guys work hard at it- just because they do not clinic or get in during the summer does not mean they do a poor job in season. I had an outstanding reciever/ DB coach who did that-he was the varsity softball coach and was busy in the spring & summer with his girls but come football season he was exceptional. I'd have one of the HC type guys at the freshman level and divide up from there. If the in season only guys are turds and they are still around a year later that's my fault. If you get an entire off season with the "newbies" then you should have them up to speed and ready to go if not that's on me- I reap what I sow so to speak and the program suffers because of it.
I do know without question in th elong run you kill yourself if you keep every HC quality guy on the varsity and let the lower programs "make do"
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Post by khalfie on May 14, 2007 15:34:58 GMT -6
Stop... stop... stop it...
allow me to redefine the circumstances... its year 1. You are a new coach at a struggling program. You have to arrange your staff.
Upon evaluations, you find you have 4 descent coaches, and four guys that get to coach because of their tenure at the school.
what do you do?
Freshman practice with freshmen
Jv with Jv
And varsity with varisty...
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Post by ajreaper on May 14, 2007 18:56:39 GMT -6
LOL- #1 if it's a struggling program you need to flush the turds and make it clear there gone or you are. If you got half your staff who cannot or will not do the job you are screwed. That being said frosh and JV each get a quality coach- who'll make sure things are getting done. Who ever rounds out the varsity staff answers to the HC- I'd hope they work or you can them. 2 or 3 good guys are far better then a turd or two screwing up things.
It's one thing when you have inexpereinced guys who want to learn and perform and turds just hanging out collecting a pay check. As a new HC you should have some leverage to get rid of them, if not you need to move on because it sounds like they accept losing.
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Post by jraybern on May 15, 2007 21:45:33 GMT -6
My situation is similar....kinda. I am a new head coach (never been a head coach anywhere else either) at a very small 8man school. Will have one assistant and there will be two coaches at the junior high (same building). Where do you put the best, most dedicated coach? As the HS assistant? As the junior high head? The administration is talking about maybe moving some guys around and may ask for my input. If one of the three was clearly the best, where would you put him? If two were OK and the other a dud, where would you put the dud?
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Post by fbairattack on May 15, 2007 21:58:28 GMT -6
If two were OK and the other a dud, where would you put the dud? in the stands....... if he is that bad and you cant find someone else that you can teach to do what you want and you are forced to keep him you could explain in very specific details what you want done and give him a very small role in the lower levels and watch him carefully. At the end of the season evaluate and get rid if you can. |
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Post by 3rdandlong on May 16, 2007 15:02:58 GMT -6
I don't know why a high school assistant would just hang around for the sake of hanging around and getting a paycheck. If he's doing it for the money, then he needs to find something else because HS coaching stipends aren't very big- well at least in So. Cal they're not.
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Post by khalfie on May 21, 2007 18:53:36 GMT -6
Well... Wildcat says all you guys are wrong... and don't know what you are talking about! Nah! But you didn't hear that from me!  |
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Post by dolomite on May 21, 2007 19:07:58 GMT -6
Steve, well said. I'm going to be in the same boat next year (frosh HC) with the same attitude, mini program within a program. My question to you is how effective were you in raising money at the frosh level? With kids showing up in August, it will be difficult to raise money before the season, in season should be ok. I haven't seen the equipment that we'll be issued at the frosh level yet (I'm almost afraid to, inner city school without much of a budget). I'm assuming it will be garbage and I'll probably end up wanting to replace it, and in August that will be difficult to do. I'm open to ideas. I take it that this is your first year coaching frosh. You need to get into the middle schools somehow and get these kids excited in april, not august. Make relationships with parents and kids in the spring, not in August. |
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