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Post by wildcat on Sept 15, 2007 20:39:36 GMT -6
I know a lot of people don't like how he left Miami, but the guy can coach!
What a great game...too soon to say that the Tide are returning to glory, but this is a pretty big statement.
Is Houston Nutt in trouble after this?
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Post by brophy on Sept 15, 2007 20:43:40 GMT -6
Saban Rules!! Now, Houston Nutt, God love him, but the one thing I thought about this evening.... Nutt four years ago.... Nutt now..... Sometimes, i feel like thats what coaching does to you...
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Post by wildcat on Sept 15, 2007 20:50:04 GMT -6
Looked for a while that Arkansas was going to pull away in the 3rd Quarter...huge momentum shift when they tied the game but 'Bama responed.
What about Sabin's decision to kick the field goal on 4th and 5 instead of going for the first down on the possession before the winning TD? Thought it was the wrong decision at the time..."Bama got lucky that they got that last first down because if the kid didn't get to the sticks, the clock keeps running and the Tide don't get to take a shot at the endzone. Worked out for them, though...hard to argue with results.
And what was up with McFadden on the sidelines? Unless the kid was REALLY hurt, I think he has to be on the field at the end of the game to put it away.
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Post by brophy on Sept 15, 2007 20:58:33 GMT -6
What about Sabin's decision to kick the field goal on 4th and 5 instead of going for the first down on the possession before the winning TD? Thought it was the wrong decision at the time...& I know the broadcasters didn't like it, but why should you 'panic' with a little less than 5 minutes left in the game? Honestly, I had the DVR going because shades of the old Saban LSU fake FG in the Sugar Bowl....... The Alabama defense is on point, and should be awesome in another year. I still cannot believe how different Alabama looks since the Indy Bowl game against Okla State.
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Post by wildcat on Sept 15, 2007 21:12:51 GMT -6
What about Sabin's decision to kick the field goal on 4th and 5 instead of going for the first down on the possession before the winning TD? Thought it was the wrong decision at the time...& I know the broadcasters didn't like it, but why should you 'panic' with a little less than 5 minutes left in the game? Honestly, I had the DVR going because shades of the old Saban LSU fake FG in the Sugar Bowl....... The Alabama defense is on point, and should be awesome in another year. I still cannot believe how different Alabama looks since the Indy Bowl game against Okla State. I thought the same thing about a fake FG...I just think it was too obvious...bad timing for that kind of thing. Here's the thing...it was a ballsy call by Sabin...the "safe" thing to do would have been to go for it on 4th Down and hope for the best. If you don't make it, the excuse is built in...the coach can get in front of the media at the post-game conference and say, "Well, we had to go for the win because we just didn't think we would get the ball back." If they don't get that last first down, the game is over, Arkansas wins, and Sabin gets grilled tomorrow for kicking the FG instead of trying to score on the second to last possession. That's why the guy is a winner despite what people in South Florida think...he didn't panic, he knew that his defense was going to step up, and he knew that his offense was going to give him 1 last shot to win. Just a great example of coaching by Sabin...the guy knows his players, trusted them to do what needed to be done, and it was obvious that those kids were coached up and prepared.
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Post by brophy on Sept 15, 2007 21:24:10 GMT -6
the guy is worth $5M a year.........can't you at least learn to spell his name correctly, Wilesmat?
We could be seeing an upheaval in the Gulf South Recruiting if this continues.
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Post by ajreaper on Sept 15, 2007 21:57:31 GMT -6
Read Saban's book- absolutely great! Every coach should have it in his library.
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Post by vassdiddy on Sept 16, 2007 1:36:19 GMT -6
I was a South Florida resident and loved his ability to coach and his book (read it twice). The principles were great, but after he left Miami, I read it again and had to laugh at all the hypocrisy in it.
Quote of the year - might be a bit paraphrased (Terry Saban, Nick's wife in the 8/27 SI) "There is a gap between what you think of yourself and what people think of you, and it's as wide as the Grand Canyon."
If only I had half this man's focus!
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Post by wildcat on Sept 16, 2007 5:20:31 GMT -6
the guy is worth $5M a year.........can't you at least learn to spell his name correctly, Wilesmat? Whoops! Here's what I make my 7th Graders do: Saban Saban Saban Saban Saban Saban Saban Saban Saban Saban There...that should do it! ;D
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 16, 2007 8:21:54 GMT -6
vassdiddy hits nail on head. Friends with those who worked with Saban, and Have had multiple chances to attend practices/meetings (in season, not spring). and such. Man has been blessed by the good fortune supporting his HYPE. Not a good human being.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 16, 2007 9:05:41 GMT -6
Not referring to his "practice" demeanor. His practice demeanor is a great one--he is 100% businesslike.
I am referring to the standards he holds others to, and the actions he himself commits. I am referring to how he treats those who work for him (not just coaches or football related members, but admin staff (secretaries and the such), training staff, etc.
You don't know the man. I do. I stand by my assertions.
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Post by wildcat on Sept 16, 2007 10:06:24 GMT -6
Not referring to his "practice" demeanor. His practice demeanor is a great one--he is 100% businesslike. I am referring to the standards he holds others to, and the actions he himself commits. I am referring to how he treats those who work for him (not just coaches or football related members, but admin staff (secretaries and the such), training staff, etc. You don't know the man. I do. I stand by my assertions. With all due respect, so what? He wasn't paid all of that money to mold young men or be a role model or because he remembers Secretary's Day. He was paid that money to win games like the one yesterday and return Alabama to a position of national prominence. Big-time football coaches at the collegiate and NFL level are often control freaks, egomaniacs, liars, cheaters, enablers, and, more often than not, complete d i c k s. Unfortunately, the intense competition of this profession can bring out the absolute worst in some people. Nick Saban is a good football coach. Nothing more, nothing less. The fact that he treats others poorly does not make him a bad football coach. Equally, the fact that he is a highly successful football coach does not make him a good person.
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Post by ajreaper on Sept 16, 2007 10:49:10 GMT -6
LOL, you know you've made it when there's a certain percentage of people who are critical of everything- from what you say to how you dress, whether you say please and thank you or smooge with the "little people".
Attend the NFCA conference one year and you'll find out there's many college coaches and not just head coaches or D1 guys who are complete asses. They have no time for anyone who cannot give them something or from whom they cannot get somethig. And there are others who'll sit down with about anyone and answer questions or diagram plays on a cocktail napkin. Great coaches do not have to be great people any more then a great doctor has to have a great bedside manner.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 16, 2007 10:50:45 GMT -6
Never said anything different. His record on and off the field speak for themselves, as do his successes and failures. I was simply stating that those espousing the "Saban philosophy" as listed in his book should be aware that he does not practice what he preaches.
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Post by ttowntiger on Sept 18, 2007 19:15:20 GMT -6
Right now, Bama is winning off pure emotion. Heck, even Terry Bowden went 11-0 his first year. We'll see how good O Saban Been Lyin' is when he loses his first game and the fans and media realize he's not God. Like you guys said, good coach, sorry human being.
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Post by deaux68 on Sept 18, 2007 21:32:31 GMT -6
The guy yells at a few underlings, despises the media, and basically isn't cordial to people other than recruits.
I think he has a disorder, OCD, something along those lines. Regardless, he's a hell of a coach.
Comparing him to Terry Bowden is like comparing Tuberville to Barfield. Give me a break.
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Post by brophy on Sept 20, 2007 8:08:03 GMT -6
pardon me, but JESUSCHRIST! You people sound like the chatty cast from the View..... Saban is about organization, discipline, and goal-oriented results. What you got in Alabama is what you got in LSU. What you got in LSU was what you got in Michigan St. Miami? Jimmy Johnson, Dave Wannestedt, Cam Cameron..............skilled coaches, but maaaaybe it has something to do with the organization as a whole (AND the tough division) as to why he left. Now, what is Saban's biggest knock? .......well, for one, he isn't the most media-friendly guy. If you don't make friends with the media - if you don't bend over backwards to appease them, they will crucify you in print, out of principle. Why? because if you can't give them what they want (a story) then "YOU SUCK". Buying into media cliches, bias, and ignorance (as a practicing coach) is just not a good practice. Saban's book is awesome. .......now for any of you that think he backs out on his 'principles' just because he accepted the job in Miami / Alabama, then you really didn't get the message of the book. The book's title was, "HOW GOOD DO YOU WANT TO BE?" always trying to achieve MORE - that IS the role of a true competitor. Now, I'm not saying he is Jesus Christ, but the guy CAN coach and he DOES give an excellent model of how to run a program, PR moves be damned.
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Post by sls on Sept 20, 2007 8:38:56 GMT -6
Worst part of his book is when he talks about the "Last Samurai" movie taking place in China.
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Post by vassdiddy on Sept 20, 2007 13:03:32 GMT -6
Brophy, with all due respect, I think you are wrong about the media deal. I know some people in the Dolphins organization, people in the South Florida media, and people who have worked for him at all of his stops and the guy treats EVERYONE like garbage. I have some stories that I would rather not share, but the guy treats everyone poorly. And I don't mean just not saying hi and what not, I mean going above and beyond being a complete jerk. Placating to the media is one thing, going out of your way to be a jerk is another. The funny thing is, the Miami media never went after him when he was the coach there.
I am not questioning his ability to coach. But being a good coach and half-way decent human being isn't mutually exclusive. The guy writes this book and espouses all this rah rah stuff about having integrity, quitting, treating people with respect, etc. etc. and then lies his way out of a job , leaves his players without addressing them like a coward. I could go on and on. Like someone said, he doesn't treat you well unless you are a 5-star recruit.
The best part is, apparently he has no respect for recruiting dead times and such, and violated tons of stuff. Well, he had no real competition in his backyard at LSU. However, if he doesn't watch his backside, there are plenty of people at Auburn that would LOOOVE to blow the whistle.
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Post by ajreaper on Sept 20, 2007 13:15:19 GMT -6
I find it hard to believe this guy treated the media like crap and THEY NEVER WENT AFTER HIM. What planet was this on? If a guy in his position is going out of his way to treat media types like garbage he'll have a slew of them tearing him apart ever chance they got for anything and everything.
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Post by vassdiddy on Sept 20, 2007 20:11:32 GMT -6
Doing things here and there and feeling bad about them is one thing. Being a complete douche to EVERYONE is another. Lets tell the kids about class, dignity, and all the sportmanship stuff, but let's make sure we treat everyone like garbage.
AJ, the media hit him pretty hard for the "We're don't care about winning this year" in his first year comment, but they ended on a high note. I was told by a famous member of the South Florida media at the time, writes for Yahoo now, that the collective South Florida media was waiting to jump on him. When they finally did, he was already in Tuscaloosa.
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Post by brophy on Sept 20, 2007 20:27:34 GMT -6
I appreciate your insight, Vass.
I believe you.
Personally, I understand everything you've explained. Doesn't change my opinion about Saban, though. The burden of leadership is a beatch. Could he go out of his way and slow down and appease folks more? I'm sure. That type of behavior is common among people I've encountered who are extremely focussed and dedicated to an end. Doesn't mean I would hang out with them as friends, but when it hit the fan, that would be the guy I would want in my corner.
You're right about the other SEC schools turning him in, if indeed, he is running afoul - wisdom is justified by her children.
Some folks, unfortunately, DON'T matter. Power thrusts DO occur in business and most effective leaders are guilty of this. Coaching is about control....in every aspect. If it is chewing out administrative staff for not filling up the snack bar with the correct little debbie snack cakes (Yeah, I heard about that story, too), then hey...that is why they call him "nicktator". Power thrusts usually occur to set the tone for leadership. The Al Haig element of "As of NOW, I am IN CONTROL!", has to be set to let people know, there is a new sheriff in town.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 20, 2007 20:48:59 GMT -6
Yes...we are all coaches. However, I do not think all of us have had an office administrative asst (think, lady in her mid 50's, not an administrative asst hoping to coach) reassigned from the athletic dept because she bought the wrong snack cakes...................
I do enjoy the fact that the mighty midget has to walk to work daily beneath a giant Bear Statue.
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Post by vassdiddy on Sept 20, 2007 21:07:11 GMT -6
5085, I love it too. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Saban as a coach. And I am not asking him to placate to everyone. My point is, if you don't have the time to go out of your way to be nice, why do you have to take it to go out of your way to be a jerk?!?!
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 20, 2007 21:14:51 GMT -6
vass...i think we both agree..well, somewhat. I don't LOVE hiim as a coach...but i do respect is results.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
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Post by tedseay on Sept 21, 2007 3:00:57 GMT -6
The Al Haig element of " As of NOW, I am IN CONTROL!", has to be set to let people know, there is a new sheriff in town. Brophy: But Al Haig WASN'T in charge, and now people remember him as the butt of a very dumb joke, rather than for his service to country in a long, distinguished military career and as SecState. They way you treat other people matters, period. George Schultz and Colin Powell cared about how Foreign Service Officers were treated by the bureaucracy, and as a result we revere them as Secretaries of State. Madeleine Albright, James Baker and Warren Christopher didn't give a rat's ass about us and didn't care who knew it -- and we remember them as the douchebags they were. No matter how "focused and dedicated to an end" they were. Colin Powell knows a thing or two about "focused and dedicated," and he didn't have to act like a prick all the time to prove it.
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Post by brophy on Sept 22, 2007 20:50:39 GMT -6
Nick Saban may be the devil, but man.....can he manage a game......three weeks straight, he is hanging with the big boys and operating the game like a surgeon
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Post by wildcat on Sept 22, 2007 21:51:13 GMT -6
Loss today shows once again how ridiculous and inaccurate the polls are...today's game will be used by Saban's detractors to show that he isn't that good of a coach because 'Bama lost to a lower ranked opponent.
If anyone saw Arkansas today, you know that they were overrated by the pollsters before the season and 'Bama should probably not have been a Top 20 team this week for beating Arkansas last week.
Saban has things going the right way at 'Bama, regardless of what happened today.
And for all of you guys who think that it is ironic that Saban has to walk past that statue of The Bear...Bryant could be a pretty mean SOB, as well...
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 23, 2007 12:20:19 GMT -6
wildcat-just for clarity--the irony is that Bryant was a physically imposing man, and saban is a shorty.
I don't have a problem with saban being "mean". I have a problem with him bullying non-football oriented football staff (ie..secretaries, office staff, etc) over snack cakes. I have a problem with him preaching one thing, and doing another. I have a problem with him holding others to a standard of behavior that he doesn't hold himself to.
But he can coach defense.
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crl
Junior Member
Pick me , pick me... I want to be on the RNC location scout team.
Posts: 476
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Post by crl on Sept 24, 2007 2:18:08 GMT -6
He is a workacholic when it comes to the Defensive backs. Buddy of mine did a summer in Miami with the Coach Saban. He is detailed and wants all the ducks in a row evrything must be perfect, he would always keep his DB an extra 1/2 hour after, and my Buddy was impressed with his knowledge of coverages and playing them, that speaks alot to me seeing that this guy played 12 years in the NFL and is now DC. He is not a bad person he just wants the job done right, he is a bit aloof but hey that is to be expected at that level of play. I don´t know the man, don´t claim too...but I am just repeating what was told to me firsthand.
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