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Post by nhsehs on Sept 18, 2024 15:42:46 GMT -6
I worked for a guy who is recognized as one of the best HS offensive minds in the country. Decades of explosive offenses, on the national Glazier circuit, etc.
I’d be in lock step with talking ball and we’d both have good ideas the other hadn’t thought of, but the way his knowledge translates to on-field production separates him from others
The best way I can describe it is he can see into the future how different schemes/calls will play out before they happen and discern which move to make. That is an art.
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Post by Down 'n Out on Sept 19, 2024 6:02:28 GMT -6
The way I see it is preparation is science, play calling is art. Some guys are just magic, see things before they develop. That comes from through preparation but there's some "it" factor to it too
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Post by tripsclosed on Sept 19, 2024 11:37:31 GMT -6
The way I see it is preparation is science, play calling is art. Some guys are just magic, see things before they develop. That comes from through preparation but there's some "it" factor to it too 100%. The science part is your preparation getting you into a range of ideal calls for a certain situation, for example maybe that's a standard 4 man rush with Cover 1 behind it, a standard 4 man rush with QQH behind it, a 5 man zone pressure, and a 6 man Cover 0 pressure. And then the art part is picking from that range.
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Post by Down 'n Out on Sept 19, 2024 11:53:56 GMT -6
Is it fair to say Defensive play calling is more analytics and playing the odds?
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Post by tripsclosed on Sept 19, 2024 19:56:50 GMT -6
Is it fair to say Defensive play calling is more analytics and playing the odds? Yeah I agree with that. You have to play the odds because defense is about trying to minimize damage the offense does, so you have to play the odds to try to minimize the damage. I think the exception would be if you are a pressure-heavy defense, then you are just getting after it stats be dammed lol. But if you use a traditional balanced defensive philosophy or bend but don't break, yeah I agree.
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Post by fantom on Sept 19, 2024 20:09:06 GMT -6
Is it fair to say Defensive play calling is more analytics and playing the odds? As a career DC who's never called offense I have to admit that calling defense on game day is easier. If we have a defense that's solid and sound, with built-in adjustments that they know from early-on and coach them up on technique, we can probably call "Base" most of the night. Two or three times a year maybe we can come up with a "brilliant" call that makes a difference. I can probably count mine on one hand.
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Post by Down 'n Out on Sept 20, 2024 4:16:49 GMT -6
I've never called a Defense, in my time as a HC I let the DC do his thing but occasionally, I guess when the "art" part of play calling struck me and I saw something coming or something open, stepped in and had him make a specific call.
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Post by cwaltsmith on Sept 20, 2024 9:40:36 GMT -6
Is it fair to say Defensive play calling is more analytics and playing the odds? As a career DC who's never called offense I have to admit that calling defense on game day is easier. If we have a defense that's solid and sound, with built-in adjustments that they know from early-on and coach them up on technique, we can probably call "Base" most of the night. Two or three times a year maybe we can come up with a "brilliant" call that makes a difference. I can probably count mine on one hand. I had never thought about it like this... I have called offense mostly... only 3 years calling defense vs 18 calling offense... but I agree... if you have done your job and your kids trust the plan, defense could be easier... where it becomes a challenge is when you are out manned and you are trying to figure out how to slow them down.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 20, 2024 10:20:37 GMT -6
Is it fair to say Defensive play calling is more analytics and playing the odds? As a career DC who's never called offense I have to admit that calling defense on game day is easier. If we have a defense that's solid and sound, with built-in adjustments that they know from early-on and coach them up on technique, we can probably call "Base" most of the night. Two or three times a year maybe we can come up with a "brilliant" call that makes a difference. I can probably count mine on one hand.
This. If you can't stop them with your base defense, you're probably not going to.... And... There are times when we needed to go back to our "Base" (4-2-5/4-4 C3) because we sucked at the adjustments (5-man fronts, Invert 2, etc..) that we had repped all week...
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Post by coachcb on Sept 20, 2024 10:31:25 GMT -6
As a career DC who's never called offense I have to admit that calling defense on game day is easier. If we have a defense that's solid and sound, with built-in adjustments that they know from early-on and coach them up on technique, we can probably call "Base" most of the night. Two or three times a year maybe we can come up with a "brilliant" call that makes a difference. I can probably count mine on one hand. I had never thought about it like this... I have called offense mostly... only 3 years calling defense vs 18 calling offense... but I agree... if you have done your job and your kids trust the plan, defense could be easier... where it becomes a challenge is when you are out manned and you are trying to figure out how to slow them down. IME, calling defense is easier, all around. But... It's not as entertaining. Practice during Week 10 looks a whole helluva lot like Week 2..
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Post by fantom on Sept 20, 2024 10:58:16 GMT -6
I had never thought about it like this... I have called offense mostly... only 3 years calling defense vs 18 calling offense... but I agree... if you have done your job and your kids trust the plan, defense could be easier... where it becomes a challenge is when you are out manned and you are trying to figure out how to slow them down. IME, calling defense is easier, all around. But... It's not as entertaining. Practice during Week 10 looks a whole helluva lot like Week 2.. Not really because the offense we're playing against is different. Of course I retired a few years ago, before spread took over.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 20, 2024 11:08:35 GMT -6
IME, calling defense is easier, all around. But... It's not as entertaining. Practice during Week 10 looks a whole helluva lot like Week 2.. Not really because the offense we're playing against is different. Of course I retired a few years ago, before spread took over.
My last season as an HC, we had to pull our defense wayyy back. We had our entire defense installed within a few days at camp. It was the bare minimum to cover our bases, for the rest of the season. We sprinkled in some adjustments but most games were 4-2-5, C3 and C1...
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Post by coachroberts99 on Sept 21, 2024 8:58:12 GMT -6
One of the best things we started doing was having an assistant write down the play we just ran and the outcome. Always made for interesting reading mid-game when you remove the emotion and your subconscious bias about your offence to find out everytime you run play "Blah" you made 7 yards.
Well, ok, guess we'll keep running that.
I script for situations, so first time we're in 3rd and long, first time redzone, that sort of thing.... I just could never get on board with the idea of scripting 10 plays and running them regardless of the game.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 21, 2024 9:10:07 GMT -6
Having been both an OC and DC at various times in my career- On gameday, being a DC is easier than being an OC. Either you're prepared and assignment sound, or you're not. Offense may have to deal with a whole laundry list of problems. Even if a team comes out in a set you're not prepared for, if you've done the work to make the D sound, you can deal with it. During the weekend before- Sat and Sunday, it's a LOT harder than being an OC. During the week, they're about equal IMO.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 21, 2024 13:27:56 GMT -6
One of the best things we started doing was having an assistant write down the play we just ran and the outcome. Always made for interesting reading mid-game when you remove the emotion and your subconscious bias about your offence to find out everytime you run play "Blah" you made 7 yards. Well, ok, guess we'll keep running that. I script for situations, so first time we're in 3rd and long, first time redzone, that sort of thing.... I just could never get on board with the idea of scripting 10 plays and running them regardless of the game. Your first 10 play script is when you are on schedule. If a situation arises (3rd and short/long/whatever), you get off the script, call the correct play, and then get back on the script at the first opportunity.
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Post by tripsclosed on Sept 21, 2024 14:30:59 GMT -6
One of the best things we started doing was having an assistant write down the play we just ran and the outcome. Always made for interesting reading mid-game when you remove the emotion and your subconscious bias about your offence to find out everytime you run play "Blah" you made 7 yards. Well, ok, guess we'll keep running that. I script for situations, so first time we're in 3rd and long, first time redzone, that sort of thing.... I just could never get on board with the idea of scripting 10 plays and running them regardless of the game. Your first 10 play script is when you are on schedule. If a situation arises (3rd and short/long/whatever), you get off the script, call the correct play, and then get back on the script at the first opportunity. Depending on how much time you have to prepare and how crazy you want to get, you could combine these two approaches, and have a broad script that is broken down into specific situations with scripted plays that make sense for each specific situation. Each time you are in a specific situation, you run the next play in that situation's script and put a checkmark beside it on your gameplan sheet so that when you come back to that situation again, you know you have already ran that scripted play and you run the next scripted play for that situation. If for example you are having success early on and not getting into a lot of 3rd-mediums or 3rd-longs, then you might only visit your 3rd-medium to 3rd-long script once, but it's there if you happen to keep getting put in 3rd-medium to 3rd-longs...
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Post by veerwego on Sept 23, 2024 11:12:30 GMT -6
One of the best things we started doing was having an assistant write down the play we just ran and the outcome. Always made for interesting reading mid-game when you remove the emotion and your subconscious bias about your offence to find out everytime you run play "Blah" you made 7 yards. Well, ok, guess we'll keep running that. I script for situations, so first time we're in 3rd and long, first time redzone, that sort of thing.... I just could never get on board with the idea of scripting 10 plays and running them regardless of the game. Been doing this a long time, and it is an important practice. I have the person doing it highlight plays that are gaining more than 5 yards in one color and also negative plays in another. Then I make them stick it in front of my face, because I never remember. Look it over between series. Helps me know what to get back to and maybe what to stay away from. There are some times that you called a play twice that you didn't think was going to be anything special, but it gained 7 and 11 yards. Maybe you don't even remember at halftime, but you need to call it more in the second half. I also think that the sideline/pressbox video could help with one thing... I have had games where I call a play early and it gets stuffed. I just naturally do not call it anymore. Then you see on film that maybe there was an assignment bust or maybe you just got whooped but can do better with better technique. Then you can go back to the play after seeing what really happened.
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Post by tigerpride on Sept 28, 2024 10:46:35 GMT -6
I don't know how to quote the above but they said "the making of the script is more important than the script."
I usually script three drives and stick to the first 4-8 plays. After that, I stare at the script but call plays based off the feel of the game.
Probably put a couple hours into the script and that preps me mentally for play calling.
I will say that we have a ten minute period each day in which we run thru the script vs air. Our kids seem to very prepared for the first quarter of every game.
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