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Post by blb on Dec 7, 2023 13:47:41 GMT -6
If you're going to grade kids - they either got their job done on any given play, or they didn't.
Giving them a positive for just lining up right in correct stance-alignment seems like something that should be assumed.
A missed assignment is one thing. Making a Big Play is another.
Also, how do you grade a kid who lines up correctly in a proper stance, tries to execute his footwork-technique and assignment to the best of his ability - and gets beat because his opponent is simply better than him physically?
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Post by hlb2 on Dec 7, 2023 17:02:46 GMT -6
You do it as I stated. 2 grades. Alignment, Assignment, and Technique (AAT) and Performance (PG). You're example, Johnny does his steps and tech correct but has a negative impact on the play he gets a 1 for his AAT and a 0 for the PG. He got a 50 on that rep. Simple. The last part is tough. That's great you can move and go where you want, but not all of us can, and having that extra data point if you're in a meeting with the "higher ups" at least shows them you're not just "winging it" when it comes to doling out playing time. So if they have correct alignment and assignment but bad technique... what does he get??? not criticizing genuinely curious He gets a 0. AAT is exactly that, they have to align, do their assignment with good technique. The PG is completely independent of the other 3 (AAT). It is simply did you have a positive or negative impact on the play. So if a guy does all 3 (AAT) good, and gets a one, but then late hits out of bounds, he gets a PG of 0. Another scenario is if he aligns wrong, but makes a TFL, he gets a 0 AAT, and 1 PG. If he aligns wrong, then misses a tackle, it would 0's in both columns. At the end, add up all his reps, then add up all the ones for the AAT (there is an AAT grade every play). Take the sum of the ones divide by the total reps, and multiply by 100. That's the AAT grade. Take the number of plays where the player either had a positive or negative impact on the play and add those up. Take the sum of the number of 1's he had and divide it by the total performance grades (there should be significantly less PG's than AAT's) and multiply by 100. That is his performance grade. Take the AAT grade and add it to the PG and divide by 2 and that is the total grade. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Dec 7, 2023 18:58:04 GMT -6
If you're going to grade kids - they either got their job done on any given play, or they didn't. Giving them a positive for just lining up right in correct stance-alignment seems like something that should be assumed. A missed assignment is one thing. Making a Big Play is another. Also, how do you grade a kid who lines up correctly in a proper stance, tries to execute his footwork-technique and assignment to the best of his ability - and gets beat because his opponent is simply better than him physically? Defensively we've gone to a points system. In my last couple of stops it was a bit different, but it isn't a percentage stat rather a counting stat. Like I said it has varied but basically something like: - asst tackle 1 point - solo tackle 2 pts - sack/TFL 3 points and so forth. There was what you have mentioned 'coaches discretion' points for big plays, hustle, etc.... There is also minus points for missed tackles, loafs, etc... It might not be readily evident like making a 75%, but it all works out in terms of everyone seeing the best player is getting 30-40 points per game and the lesser ones are getting 10-12. |
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Post by jgordon1 on Dec 7, 2023 19:01:08 GMT -6
I never felt that "grading" game film helped very much. They're our kids, they're all we've got. Can't trade them or pick up somebody else on the "waiver wire" like in NFL. Plus it's very subjective. If somebody is not getting it done, is the backup going to do it better? If so, you made a bad decision on who should be playing to begin with. That's the kind of the thing you do in college coaching to justify the money you make. 100% That being said, I take notes on each player and position group |
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Post by echoofthewhistle on Dec 8, 2023 5:24:38 GMT -6
My problem with the plus minus system is if a kid lines up correctly and steps correctly but gets whipped... Why am I giving him 2 plusses on that play. Or what if he does everything but misses tackle ... or what if it's other way were he steps wrong but makes a great play anyways... also think that other types of grades can be subjective. Anyway... I am all for feedback for the kid to get better... Idc if hes best I got... my job is to try to make him better. And as far as ammunition... If I am at a place where I have to have that I'm ready to be somewhere else anyway. I like the system I have for OLine stole it from someone years ago. There four columns Assignment, Technique, Effort, and Comment. Outside of max vertical alignment I give them freedom to squeeze and expand their splits so alignment isn't a problem 99% of the time. Assignment simple did they go block the right player, technique is did they attempt to block in the correct manner, and effort is did they block to the whistle. Comments are quick synopsis, using shorthand, of what they did wrong or right predominantly used by me to track things we need to work on. Normally, I'll grade each of these independently starting out but if we have issues with kids not correcting a bad grade column we will minus the entire play. This year we had kids that gave good effort but didn't go the right way enough so a minus in assignment was a minus in all columns on that play in order to stress the importance. I also give all the kids minuses if one of them jumps offside. Finally, I posted them in the entrance to the locker room where everyone could see which our kids took pride in although I could see how that might not work well with every group of kids. |
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Post by echoofthewhistle on Dec 8, 2023 5:37:19 GMT -6
If you're going to grade kids - they either got their job done on any given play, or they didn't. Giving them a positive for just lining up right in correct stance-alignment seems like something that should be assumed. A missed assignment is one thing. Making a Big Play is another. Also, how do you grade a kid who lines up correctly in a proper stance, tries to execute his footwork-technique and assignment to the best of his ability - and gets beat because his opponent is simply better than him physically? Defensively we've gone to a points system. In my last couple of stops it was a bit different, but it isn't a percentage stat rather a counting stat. Like I said it has varied but basically something like: - asst tackle 1 point - solo tackle 2 pts - sack/TFL 3 points and so forth. There was what you have mentioned 'coaches discretion' points for big plays, hustle, etc.... There is also minus points for missed tackles, loafs, etc... It might not be readily evident like making a 75%, but it all works out in terms of everyone seeing the best player is getting 30-40 points per game and the lesser ones are getting 10-12. My only question, and I guess my overall issue with purely result based grading, is what about players that play positions or roles that aren't designed to make those plays? how does this effect kids willingness to do things that won't result in them getting a tackle? Kid plays 0 tech nose and draws double and triples all game stands out to me. Does that kid start shooting gaps because his point total is low? We could also discuss how those results are also driven by the opponent offense, they could run away from your stud the whole game. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Dec 8, 2023 8:01:34 GMT -6
Defensively we've gone to a points system. In my last couple of stops it was a bit different, but it isn't a percentage stat rather a counting stat. Like I said it has varied but basically something like: - asst tackle 1 point - solo tackle 2 pts - sack/TFL 3 points and so forth. There was what you have mentioned 'coaches discretion' points for big plays, hustle, etc.... There is also minus points for missed tackles, loafs, etc... It might not be readily evident like making a 75%, but it all works out in terms of everyone seeing the best player is getting 30-40 points per game and the lesser ones are getting 10-12. My only question, and I guess my overall issue with purely result based grading, is what about players that play positions or roles that aren't designed to make those plays? how does this effect kids willingness to do things that won't result in them getting a tackle? Kid plays 0 tech nose and draws double and triples all game stands out to me. Does that kid start shooting gaps because his point total is low? We could also discuss how those results are also driven by the opponent offense, they could run away from your stud the whole game. It's not that much different that the +/- way in that there are threshold for what is considered good and not so good. Yes, the front end typically has more points than the back end. That difference is what plays get what points is no different in that I wouldn't ask my filed CB to wrong arm a trap. But as I mentioned there is room for coaching discretion. If you NG is eating up double teams so your ILB can 12 tackles in a game, then the NG will be piling up lots of 'great execution' points. Neither is perfect, but this is a lot easier. If the DB breaks up a pass then you just put a tic mark in that column, and so on. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Dec 8, 2023 8:04:53 GMT -6
Positive Points:
Series
First Hit
Assist
Sack *
QB pressure
TFL *
Batted Ball
Forced Fumble *
Fumble Recovery *
Ball Hawk
Big Hit *
Big Play *
PBU
Lock Down
INT *
Great Execution
* represents automatic star
Negative Points:
Metal Error
Unnecessary Penalty
Loaf
We gave a helmet star for multiples of 15 points, and as noted above some plays got automatic stars. Also if you play 1 play of a series you got credit for being in that series of plays.
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Post by fantom on Dec 8, 2023 11:41:10 GMT -6
I don't understand where people find the time to do all of that grading especially if they're a coordinator.
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Post by cqmiller on Dec 8, 2023 12:14:38 GMT -6
I don't understand where people find the time to do all of that grading especially if they're a coordinator. When I was at a school with so many athletes that we literally needed to do the grading to justify playing time, it had to get done. That's been once in my career. Most schools I've been at, the QB2 is so far behind QB1 grading would be a waste of time. I have a system for doing it, but is it the top of the priority list... NO. We try to have the kids grade themselves, which gets them watching film for a purpose other than "check this one play out", and more of a "I didn't have good feet this game" type of deal. |
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Post by hlb2 on Dec 8, 2023 13:09:12 GMT -6
I don't understand where people find the time to do all of that grading especially if they're a coordinator. I'm the coordinator, and I don't do grading, the position coaches do. Gotta delegate. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Dec 8, 2023 15:33:19 GMT -6
I don't necessarily enjoy the grading, but it isn't that hard. As a position coach, you know what you look for in an athlete, and when you see it..... you see it.
Is it subjective? Yes. But not more subjective than things like, "I won't play him because I don't trust him" or "He gives great effort".
As a younger coach, It gave me a rubric to quantify how to look at film. 31 years later, I can almost predict to a T what will happen within the 1st couple of seconds of a film clip for a DB
-press man and at the snap feet go out/spread instead of inch back = beat and in a trail position
-off man and hips open before the 'catch = beat and in a trail position
and so forth. I'm sure most of you can do the same. Don't get me wrong I can completely understand using that time for something else.
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Post by cwaltsmith on Dec 11, 2023 9:23:52 GMT -6
So if they have correct alignment and assignment but bad technique... what does he get??? not criticizing genuinely curious He gets a 0. AAT is exactly that, they have to align, do their assignment with good technique. The PG is completely independent of the other 3 (AAT). It is simply did you have a positive or negative impact on the play. So if a guy does all 3 (AAT) good, and gets a one, but then late hits out of bounds, he gets a PG of 0. Another scenario is if he aligns wrong, but makes a TFL, he gets a 0 AAT, and 1 PG. If he aligns wrong, then misses a tackle, it would 0's in both columns. At the end, add up all his reps, then add up all the ones for the AAT (there is an AAT grade every play). Take the sum of the ones divide by the total reps, and multiply by 100. That's the AAT grade. Take the number of plays where the player either had a positive or negative impact on the play and add those up. Take the sum of the number of 1's he had and divide it by the total performance grades (there should be significantly less PG's than AAT's) and multiply by 100. That is his performance grade. Take the AAT grade and add it to the PG and divide by 2 and that is the total grade. Holy smokes... is that calculus lol jkjk... again everyone has to do what works for them. I definitely think players need input on film so they can use it to get better. Just think the number system is just as subjective as me saying this kid plays bc he does more things correctly. |
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