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Post by coachdmyers on Mar 9, 2023 10:10:59 GMT -6
So we have a varsity group that has talent but we are undersized up front. And not just a little, like we have had to gameplan around not really being able to run the ball, and having to release passes quickly (little to no time to throw downfield). We've adapted pretty well, and our offense is built to be able to do that, but it's not where I'd like to be long term. Since we can't run consistently, I've been thinking that Zone is not worth the expense, that it would be better to have a few man or gap concepts to compliment our pass game.
Future class coming in is large up front, and potentially a special group all around. They should be able to run what I'd typically like to be in (spread, zone-option, 50/50 run pass).
As I'm writing this, the obvious answer seems to be "duh, teach them what you want them to be able to do when they're older", but still wondering if anyone else has dealt with this and what pitfalls they've maybe run into when doing this?
I guess part of the issue is where to start covering that gap in systems. I anticipate having to be pass heavy for the next two seasons. We have a JV team and I'm also wondering how to balance getting kids ready for the current system and also experience with the one that some of them will be in by the time they are seniors (like our current freshmen).
The terminology is not different. Our formations will be the same system of calls. Certain elements of the pass game would be different in the more balanced system (fewer pass concepts).
Just wondering where people on this board have drawn that line between prepping kids for the future and prepping them for what's happening now.
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Post by knightfan64 on Mar 9, 2023 10:28:41 GMT -6
When I was a varsity hc I left the JV staff run what they felt comfortable with my first few years. Mistake on my part as my JV coach the first few years was always older and less adept to what we were doing. My last year my JV coach was fantastic and ran our system but with his tweaks and to his personnel. That’s how we tried to do it when I was a JV coach. Use the same terminology but if certain formations and schemes fit your personnel better as the focal point on JV I say run it. On varsity you might be a quick strike passing attack but you’ll certainly still have your base run game in. I don’t feel like it’s that much of a stretch for your varsity to be base gap scheme with zone concepts installed, and for JV to be the reverse. Just be on the same page with coaches
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Post by olcoach53 on Mar 9, 2023 11:06:22 GMT -6
This always led to issues when I saw it happen. Kids would come up to the varsity level mid-season and would be very confused on what their assignment was. When I was coaching JV we would do things differently than the varsity but would keep the same terminology on our level, for instance the varsity did not run a lot of jet or jet motion but we had it in our terminology so we ran it on JV.
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Post by jstoss24 on Mar 9, 2023 11:22:04 GMT -6
It doesn't sound like you will be running two different "systems." If the terminology stays the same and you're using the same formations, it's still the same system to me. You're just running different plays with JV and Varsity. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I have always been of the opinion that you should run what your players are good at. If your JV players aren't good at running the plays you want to run with your Varsity (or vice-versa), then run plays that they are good at.
When I read the thread title, I thought it was going to be a JV coach saying he wanted to run Air Raid when the varsity ran Wing-T. That's an issue, not running different plays within the same system between the two levels.
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Post by coachcb on Mar 9, 2023 11:37:10 GMT -6
I was the froshmore/JV OC in a situation you described. The playbook was Air Raid and the varsity ran a lot of 10 personnel and empty sets and chucked the ball around. The playbook did have 11 personnel tied into it with IZ, Power and Counter. They didn't use it very often as the HC/OC wanted to be that kind of team.
We had a freshman TB that ended up being All-State as a junior and senior so we ran the hell out of the ball at the lower levels. We also had a three QBs at those levels who needed another year or two of development before they'd be consistently effective passers. We still ran most the base varsity passing package (mainly short stuff and screens) but did a whole lot less of it than the varsity. We were a pretty good Dig and Mesh team as our QBs hit those crossing routes well.
The HC wasn't thrilled with the first game I called as I only dialed up a handful of short passes and screens. But, he saw how well we ran the ball so he just asked that the screen and short game be polished. No worries there; that soon-to-be All-State RB was a great screen/short pass WR when we'd motion him out into the slot.
Two years later, the varsity ended up living in 11 and 12 personnel and pounding away more than we did. Lol
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Post by echoofthewhistle on Mar 9, 2023 12:00:46 GMT -6
To me your system is your terminology and your menu. With each year your using the part of the menu that suits your players that year both at JV and Varsity. Kids need to be exposed to all the techniques within the menu, but what you focus on changes.
So I wouldn't have a flexbone JV team with an Air Raid varsity, but your JV being more of a IZ team versus your varsity being more counter isn't a issue as long as it fits with your system and your JV kids are still exposed to counter.
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Post by MICoach on Mar 9, 2023 12:58:01 GMT -6
We have a JV team and I'm also wondering how to balance getting kids ready for the current system and also experience with the one that some of them will be in by the time they are seniors (like our current freshmen). The terminology is not different. Our formations will be the same system of calls. Certain elements of the pass game would be different in the more balanced system (fewer pass concepts). Just wondering where people on this board have drawn that line between prepping kids for the future and prepping them for what's happening now. This seems like pretty par for the course, IMO. Naturally you're going to have some differences in approaches between different levels, especially if there is a unique coaching staff. We've always run "the same system" on varsity and the lower levels but if you have different playcallers and personnel, it's going to look different. My personal opinion is your core run game philosophy should be consistent (gap, zone, veer, etc.) and you can branch out from there. |
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Post by chi5hi on Mar 9, 2023 16:51:14 GMT -6
So we have a varsity group that has talent but we are undersized up front. And not just a little, like we have had to gameplan around not really being able to run the ball, and having to release passes quickly (little to no time to throw downfield). We've adapted pretty well, and our offense is built to be able to do that, but it's not where I'd like to be long term. Since we can't run consistently, I've been thinking that Zone is not worth the expense, that it would be better to have a few man or gap concepts to compliment our pass game. Future class coming in is large up front, and potentially a special group all around. They should be able to run what I'd typically like to be in (spread, zone-option, 50/50 run pass). As I'm writing this, the obvious answer seems to be "duh, teach them what you want them to be able to do when they're older", but still wondering if anyone else has dealt with this and what pitfalls they've maybe run into when doing this? I guess part of the issue is where to start covering that gap in systems. I anticipate having to be pass heavy for the next two seasons. We have a JV team and I'm also wondering how to balance getting kids ready for the current system and also experience with the one that some of them will be in by the time they are seniors (like our current freshmen). The terminology is not different. Our formations will be the same system of calls. Certain elements of the pass game would be different in the more balanced system (fewer pass concepts). Just wondering where people on this board have drawn that line between prepping kids for the future and prepping them for what's happening now. Okay, here's where I fall in this question... Say...A varsity player goes down with an injury that will keep him out next week. If you can pull up a JV player and give him one week of practicing the upcoming game plan...can he do it? If he can't, or if he's lost in the terminology or formational stuff, then the JV's aren't running the team's system. Now...There are some years when one of the three teams get their jock straps handed to them. That's either sub-standard coaching, or they're being asked to do things that they can't physically do. Guess what? Kids of that age grow up, get bigger and stronger, and will be better next year. If the JV's are only running gap stuff and the Varsity is only running zone stuff, well..."zone" is only gap blocking toward the play and gaps are blocking the other way. Can a JV player move upstairs and function? Does he know what you're talking about? Keep it that simple and you'll be OK. BTW, anticipating what you can or can't do 2 years from now might surprise you. Unless you can recruit for what you want, you'll have to dance with what you get. Insisting on a SYSTEM is very important on all levels. |
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Post by peacock1915 on Mar 11, 2023 18:53:54 GMT -6
We made the switch from a 10 personnel spread team to an under center flexbone team. The last year in spread we went ahead and installed the flexbone at the freshman level. So I would call a flexbone game on Monday night and a spread game on Friday night. We had separate practices so really wasn’t much of an issue.
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Post by jg78 on Mar 12, 2023 10:12:54 GMT -6
Your lower level kids running the same system as your varsity guys is a huge advantage for a couple of reasons:
1. Younger players moving up to varsity who are physically ready to contribute or start are ahead of the game. I remember a game I coached several years where a couple of starters were injured in a game early in the year and a couple of sophomores were able to step in and be effective enough to hold on to a lead because of what they learned in JV.
2. You don’t have to burn as much varsity practice time teaching rising players the basics from scratch. Your HB already knows 437 means Buck Sweep to the right - or whatever. And a senior guard who’s been pulling on Buck Sweep since he was a 7th grader probably isn’t going to make too many mistakes.
I agree with those who say it’s fine to make some tweaks for the JV depending on the personnel - but they need to be fluent in your terminology.
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