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Post by silkyice on Feb 28, 2023 13:04:04 GMT -6
Top tier in several states are more or less the same. If you took the middle 50% of every state, TX and GA would outclass the rest. For a lot of reasons the depth of those two states is unmatched. There are so many ways to determine who has the best HS football quality. Do we mean top, top to bottom, number of d1 players, what would a random team look like, etc.? |
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Post by bulldogsdc on Feb 28, 2023 13:28:37 GMT -6
If Florida would pay its Coaches the answer would be a no brainer. I got paid 2100.00 to be a Varsity DC at a 4a school in 2017.
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Post by knightfan64 on Feb 28, 2023 15:30:12 GMT -6
If Florida would pay its Coaches the answer would be a no brainer. I got paid 2100.00 to be a Varsity DC at a 4a school in 2017. Florida is going to keep losing top coaches like that. When Darlington left Apopka that’s when it really sunk in for me that Florida was behind. |
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Post by wolverine55 on Feb 28, 2023 15:54:53 GMT -6
If Florida would pay its Coaches the answer would be a no brainer. I got paid 2100.00 to be a Varsity DC at a 4a school in 2017. [br This amazes me. That's what I was paid to be an OL coach at a small IL school...in 2008! And it was low then compared to neighboring schools. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Feb 28, 2023 16:45:23 GMT -6
If Florida would pay its Coaches the answer would be a no brainer. I got paid 2100.00 to be a Varsity DC at a 4a school in 2017. Yeah, since playing several FLA teams over the years that just boggles my mind... especially considering GA is directly above it. My very first gig as an adjunct college kid AC in a school that had just recently broken a 40+ game losing streak was $1800 and that was 1993. In retrospect, the funniest thing is that we put out a 19 year NFL vet, punter Andy Lee. |
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Post by silkyice on Feb 28, 2023 17:35:02 GMT -6
If Florida would pay its Coaches the answer would be a no brainer. I got paid 2100.00 to be a Varsity DC at a 4a school in 2017. Yeah, since playing several FLA teams over the years that just boggles my mind... especially considering GA is directly above it. My very first gig as an adjunct college kid AC in a school that had just recently broken a 40+ game losing streak was $1800 and that was 1993. In retrospect, the funniest thing is that we put out a 19 year NFL vet, punter Andy Lee. 40 game losing streak? Sounds like Andy Lee got a lot of reps.  |
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Post by knightfan64 on Feb 28, 2023 17:41:11 GMT -6
Question here since people are talking pay, in other states is there a major difference district to district? First district I coached in it was $2700 to be a JV assistant. Then transfer districts and I was at $3100 to be a head varsity coach (11 month contract though)….district I’m currently at is based on percentages. Assistant is roughly 7% of your teaching pay. Head coach I think is 15% plus 11 month contract plus 3% lifting stipend
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Post by coachwoodall on Feb 28, 2023 17:46:27 GMT -6
Yeah, since playing several FLA teams over the years that just boggles my mind... especially considering GA is directly above it. My very first gig as an adjunct college kid AC in a school that had just recently broken a 40+ game losing streak was $1800 and that was 1993. In retrospect, the funniest thing is that we put out a 19 year NFL vet, punter Andy Lee. 40 game losing streak? Sounds like Andy Lee got a lot of reps. Yes he did |
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Post by bulldogsdc on Mar 1, 2023 7:42:05 GMT -6
If Florida would pay its Coaches the answer would be a no brainer. I got paid 2100.00 to be a Varsity DC at a 4a school in 2017. Florida is going to keep losing top coaches like that. When Darlington left Apopka that’s when it really sunk in for me that Florida was behind. Darlington has returned twice. |
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
Just here to learn the facemelter
Posts: 414
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Post by SconnieOC on Mar 1, 2023 8:49:54 GMT -6
Even in those leagues though, there is a wide disparity. Right now in the Catholic League there's De La Salle, and then there's everyone else. I'm interested to see what Detroit Catholic Central looks like under some new direction, and OLSM, traditionally a power looks like they're starting to catch their stride finally after moving from the wishbone stuff they did forever to the air raid. PHSL has King and Cass, and then everybody else is pretty bad. I'm sure they have a prospect or two, but it isn't great football. OAA has a lot of prospects as does the MAC Red. Some very good leagues in this part of the state. I do think Michigan in general is pretty good in the midwest though. Not Ohio good, but there's some good ball happening here. Great commentary on needing to be able to separate the strength of larger cities from the state's overall.OAA and MAC Red = "surrounding areas". Grand Rapids area also has some of the best HS football in MI. But don't think it compares to TX, CA, FL, GA for example. Tough to compete with states where they have spring football so kids have many more extra practices-reps by the time they're seniors.This is the answer to the original question though right? There are certainly some pockets that don't have spring ball who produce good players and every state has a program or 25 who play really high level/really well coached ball with great athletes but if we're talking quality ball... it's going to be states where the kids get an extra 1500 reps in the spring. There's no doubt there is still bad football with bad coaching in those states but when I was coaching at D3, our immediate impact freshmen guys were generally from Texas, Georgia, and Arizona. They may not have been more talented than some of our midwest locals, but they were just more mentally prepared to play at that level for multiple reasons. They had the reps, they played against a lot of high level competition, and for most of them, it wasn't a fun hobby, it was a way of life. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Mar 1, 2023 9:33:42 GMT -6
OAA and MAC Red = "surrounding areas". Grand Rapids area also has some of the best HS football in MI. But don't think it compares to TX, CA, FL, GA for example. Tough to compete with states where they have spring football so kids have many more extra practices-reps by the time they're seniors.This is the answer to the original question though right? There are certainly some pockets that don't have spring ball who produce good players and every state has a program or 25 who play really high level/really well coached ball with great athletes but if we're talking quality ball... it's going to be states where the kids get an extra 1500 reps in the spring. There's no doubt there is still bad football with bad coaching in those states but when I was coaching at D3, our immediate impact freshmen guys were generally from Texas, Georgia, and Arizona. They may not have been more talented than some of our midwest locals, but they were just more mentally prepared to play at that level for multiple reasons. They had the reps, they played against a lot of high level competition, and for most of them, it wasn't a fun hobby, it was a way of life. Pretty much. Spring ball is such a huge advantage all other things being equal. We produce D1 kids in Michigan obviously, but those prospects getting over 1000 extra reps every year have such a leg up. |
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Post by irishdog on Mar 4, 2023 16:27:41 GMT -6
Have had the privilege to coach in CA, NH, MN, OH, and finally TX.
CA had a wide distribution of athletes, especially in SoCal. Frankly, HS ball in the Central Valley of CA had the environment and atmosphere of HS ball in TX, but not necessarily a lot of big-time talent. Good QB's are a dime a dozen in CA.
Surprisingly, while the lack of big-time talent and resources was scarce in NH I felt those kids were some of the toughest, hard-nosed kids I have coached.
There were a number of schools in MN that had great facilities, coaching staffs, a plethora of bigs with talent in the outstate, and a bunch of good athletes in the Twin Cities metro. But...Because of the weather the schools only play 8 regular season games and EVERYONE makes the playoffs (hey, it's Minnesota).
Ohio schools were hit and miss with resources, talent, and game atmospheres and environments. Some of the larger city schools better than others their size and a number of smaller rural schools, but a many larger city schools were lacking in comparison to a number of smaller rural schools that had better resources, game environments, and talent than some of those larger city schools. Private schools rule in Ohio.
Texas on the other hand...well..."Friday Night Lights" is what it is truly all about. From small 6-man schools to the largest Class 6A schools the passion for playing football is incredible all over Texas. MOST of the schools in Texas have incredible resources, facilities, and coaching, and most of it is found in public schools. When you think of high school football in Texas it's all about public schools. Private schools in Texas are NOT football factories like private schools elsewhere. Talent can vary around the state with gobs more athletes located in and around DFW and Houston. You'll find really good kids in Austin and San Antonio, but each region (Texas is a huge state) has their fair share of talent (especially East Texas, West Texas, and Central Texas).
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Post by 19delta on Mar 4, 2023 20:20:11 GMT -6
In Illinois, head football coaches are most likely going to be PE, Social Studies, or Driver Ed teachers. But that isn’t a hard and fast rule. And assistant coaches will often represent the entire spectrum of the teaching staff.
In the states where high school football is a huge priority, what classes are being taught by the football coaches?
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Post by nhsehs on Mar 5, 2023 6:52:17 GMT -6
In Illinois, head football coaches are most likely going to be PE, Social Studies, or Driver Ed teachers. But that isn’t a hard and fast rule. And assistant coaches will often represent the entire spectrum of the teaching staff. In the states where high school football is a huge priority, what classes are being taught by the football coaches? TX: no classes because they are AD also. Other good places: Same as what you said but with reduced course load. Part of the teaching day will be in football weights. |
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Post by realdawg on Mar 5, 2023 8:10:51 GMT -6
I am a HC in NC. I teach PE. Alot (not all) head coaches around here are PE teachers, and most of those teach wt. lifting. My schedule looks like this
Fall
1. Fresh. Health and PE (freshmen football players only)
2. Prep Period
3. Prep Period
4. Football Class
Spring
1. Football Class
2. PE 2
3. Prep Period
4. Fresh Health and PE
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Post by 19delta on Mar 5, 2023 8:37:08 GMT -6
I am a HC in NC. I teach PE. Alot (not all) head coaches around here are PE teachers, and most of those teach wt. lifting. My schedule looks like this Fall 1. Fresh. Health and PE (freshmen football players only) 2. Prep Period 3. Prep Period 4. Football Class Spring 1. Football Class 2. PE 2 3. Prep Period 4. Fresh Health and PE I’m assuming you must be on block schedule? What is the curriculum for “football class”? |
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Post by 19delta on Mar 5, 2023 8:39:37 GMT -6
In Illinois, head football coaches are most likely going to be PE, Social Studies, or Driver Ed teachers. But that isn’t a hard and fast rule. And assistant coaches will often represent the entire spectrum of the teaching staff. In the states where high school football is a huge priority, what classes are being taught by the football coaches? TX: no classes because they are AD also. Other good places: Same as what you said but with reduced course load. Part of the teaching day will be in football weights. Ok. I always wondered that about Texas. So HFCs in Texas don’t teach any classes at all? They are always an administrator? Or does that differ among districts? What about basketball, baseball, and other sports? Are those HCs also admins or do they teach? |
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Post by realdawg on Mar 5, 2023 11:50:01 GMT -6
Delta-to be honest whatever I want it to be. I’m sure there is something on paper somewhere. But I’ve never seen it or been shown it. In season we generally lift, film, chalk talk. Off season we generally just lift/run.
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Post by tripsclosed on Mar 5, 2023 12:29:47 GMT -6
I am a HC in NC. I teach PE. Alot (not all) head coaches around here are PE teachers, and most of those teach wt. lifting. My schedule looks like this Fall 1. Fresh. Health and PE (freshmen football players only) 2. Prep Period 3. Prep Period 4. Football Class Spring 1. Football Class 2. PE 2 3. Prep Period 4. Fresh Health and PE Coach, when did you become a HFC in NC? Congrats! Last I remember you were a DC down in SC |
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Post by 19delta on Mar 5, 2023 13:00:32 GMT -6
Delta-to be honest whatever I want it to be. I’m sure there is something on paper somewhere. But I’ve never seen it or been shown it. In season we generally lift, film, chalk talk. Off season we generally just lift/run. Got it. It is simply extra time built into your school day to work on football stuff. Are all the football players in that class? Are there any non-football players in that class? I don't think there are any public school districts in Illinois that have something like that. I'm sure it's a huge advantage! |
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Post by nhsehs on Mar 5, 2023 14:07:06 GMT -6
TX: no classes because they are AD also. Other good places: Same as what you said but with reduced course load. Part of the teaching day will be in football weights. Ok. I always wondered that about Texas. So HFCs in Texas don’t teach any classes at all? They are always an administrator? Or does that differ among districts? What about basketball, baseball, and other sports? Are those HCs also admins or do they teach? If a HFC is teaching classes in TX it’s typically a large district with a lack of resources and not a good job. Vast majority are AD/HFC and paid/treated as administrators. As far as other sports HC’s, if the district is serious about athletics (most are), the HC will teach 4 classes, 2 athletic periods and have 1 conference (planning) period. This is for a 7 period schedule. Block scheduling differs but as far as minutes in the classroom/week, it’s about the same. This is also typical for football coordinators. Standard teaching assignment on a 7 period day is “1-4 and out the door”, meaning teach 1-4 periods, then the rest of the day is athletic periods and a conference period. Now, in places where athletics is very much emphasized, the teaching load is less, sometimes only athletic periods. In smaller schools, it may not be this way as human resources are more scarce. |
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Post by carookie on Mar 5, 2023 14:11:37 GMT -6
In Illinois, head football coaches are most likely going to be PE, Social Studies, or Driver Ed teachers. But that isn’t a hard and fast rule. And assistant coaches will often represent the entire spectrum of the teaching staff. In the states where high school football is a huge priority, what classes are being taught by the football coaches? Once again, I think it depends on the school- if they are trying to be a big time football school or a normal high school. I have worked with 4 schools in the past decade within a 10 mile radius of one another (southern California). Those two schools that were just regular schools, HC's were an off campus guy, and a math teacher. Those schools that were trying to be football, HCs had a non teaching but in a classroom campus job, usually related to athletics. College recruiting coordinator, athletics liaison, etc. |
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Post by realdawg on Mar 5, 2023 14:19:26 GMT -6
Delta-to be honest whatever I want it to be. I’m sure there is something on paper somewhere. But I’ve never seen it or been shown it. In season we generally lift, film, chalk talk. Off season we generally just lift/run. Got it. It is simply extra time built into your school day to work on football stuff. Are all the football players in that class? Are there any non-football players in that class? I don't think there are any public school districts in Illinois that have something like that. I'm sure it's a huge advantage! It’s mainly for wt lifting but yea we can do some football stuff. Pretty much all our guys are in there. In the spring you might miss 1 or 2 who are in baseball class instead. There aren’t many if any non football players in it. Only guys who have quit or maybe said they were gonna play but didn’t. We are usually able to get those guys shipped out. It’s relatively normal around here. Some schools have it over 2 classes. For example at the school I was DC at before football was 1st and 2nd period both semesters. And our players were spread out over those 2 classes. |
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Post by realdawg on Mar 5, 2023 14:21:28 GMT -6
I am a HC in NC. I teach PE. Alot (not all) head coaches around here are PE teachers, and most of those teach wt. lifting. My schedule looks like this Fall 1. Fresh. Health and PE (freshmen football players only) 2. Prep Period 3. Prep Period 4. Football Class Spring 1. Football Class 2. PE 2 3. Prep Period 4. Fresh Health and PE Coach, when did you become a HFC in NC? Congrats! Last I remember you were a DC down in SC Coach I’ve been the HC here for 3 seasons now. I was a DC before that. But I’ve never worked in SC even though I’m 5 miles or so from the state line. You may have me mixed up with someone else. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 5, 2023 16:44:02 GMT -6
We have 7 period days. We have a 'football class' and are trying to double block that. The main thing for the football class is to lift. We are also doing a 'program' class to work on the off the field stuff that plagues us. I know, I know, that some ridicule the 'program themes' but our HC really is working to try and fix stuff.
Our FB classes deal with things like conflict resolution, interview skills, creating contacts, etc..... One of the things we try to give our kids is a simple useful tool: an interview suit-- pants, shirt, tie, coat, belt, shoes.
From freshman year to senior year we try and build what a typical kid would needs to walk into job site and be able to reasonably be able to get a job.
We call it our R.E.F.I.N.E.D program.
If anyone is interested, my HC isn't trying to market/sell/hide the make up. In fact you can look it up online.
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Post by coachscdub on Mar 5, 2023 17:42:31 GMT -6
I think California has the best top teams, Specifically the Trinity League as well as Corona Centennial, and historically De La Salle.
Texas probably has the best football all around though if you were to take into account the lowest level to the highest.
Florida, Ohio, Oklahoma, and Ohio are all near the top, but the aforementioned are my top two.
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Post by wingtol on Mar 5, 2023 19:14:09 GMT -6
Cali/Texas/Fla Tier 1
GA/SC/Bama/Ohio(maybe...) Tier 2
DC/PA/LA/MS/OK/MI Tier 3
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Post by tog on Mar 6, 2023 21:55:57 GMT -6
texas
period
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Post by silkyice on Mar 7, 2023 8:48:27 GMT -6
So I can agree with this. I have zero knowledge besides what I have read/heard about. California is just huge with some huge high schools and some amazing private schools. They are bigger than many countries. So they are great through just sheer size and money. Texas is also huge but I think the passion, tradition, and commitment is better. Florida has some freak athletes but don't think the commitment is there statewide like Texas. I think that some other states like Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, etc. are similar to Texas except they are just smaller states. If you took Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi, South Carolina then you have Texas. I will say this. If you just take a random average school with a size of 500 or so, I think Texas, Georgia, Alabama would probably be on top. That is purely speculation. So here is why Texas is clearly on top. It is number 1 or 2 in sheer size and money spent. It is in top 3 in just pure athletes. It is probably top or tied at the top in passion, tradition, and commitment. It is the top or near the top in urban schools, suburban schools, and rural schools. It is at or near the top in the small, medium, large, and huge school sizes. Maybe the only place that is not the top or close is with independent schools. |
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Post by coachcb on Mar 7, 2023 10:15:26 GMT -6
So I can agree with this. I have zero knowledge besides what I have read/heard about. California is just huge with some huge high schools and some amazing private schools. They are bigger than many countries. So they are great through just sheer size and money. Texas is also huge but I think the passion, tradition, and commitment is better. Florida has some freak athletes but don't think the commitment is there statewide like Texas. I think that some other states like Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana, etc. are similar to Texas except they are just smaller states. If you took Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Tennessee, Mississippi, South Carolina then you have Texas. I will say this. If you just take a random average school with a size of 500 or so, I think Texas, Georgia, Alabama would probably be on top. That is purely speculation. So here is why Texas is clearly on top. It is number 1 or 2 in sheer size and money spent. It is in top 3 in just pure athletes. It is probably top or tied at the top in passion, tradition, and commitment. It is the top or near the top in urban schools, suburban schools, and rural schools. It is at or near the top in the small, medium, large, and huge school sizes. Maybe the only place that is not the top or close is with independent schools.
A few years ago, I was flipping back and forth between a TX high school playoff game, a AA state championship (MT), and a D2 playoff game. The TX playoff game was pretty much head and shoulders above the rest.
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