|
|
Post by carookie on Jan 28, 2023 20:39:03 GMT -6
Wondering how much time, on average, you get for indy time during the week (in season)? And how much overall practice time, on average?
By indy I am referring to time when you are working directly with your players primarily on skill development. This precludes small group settings: inside run, 7-on-7, etc, where you may be able to focus on a skill but the activity is primarily focused on players being in the right place or overall understanding of scheme (similar to team) but in a more focused environment.
This does however include skill development stations" block stations, tackling stations, etc.
I'm sure this thread has happened before, but would like to see it again. Interested to see to what extent coaches value this.
|
|
|
|
Post by realdawg on Jan 28, 2023 20:53:13 GMT -6
Kinda depends on group. For example OL get extra indy time during 7 on 7. But on average we practice an hour for each side of the ball a day. Monday you get 15-20 min (not counting these periods where you can steal some extra time) Tuesday 15 min. Wednesday 10
|
|
|
|
Post by Defcord on Jan 29, 2023 7:14:11 GMT -6
We are 10 Indy 5 station work Monday to Wednesday. Thursday we have 5 minutes but it’s players leading the 5 minute Indy we also do in pregame.
|
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Jan 29, 2023 12:31:11 GMT -6
Ideal world for me is a 3:2:1 ratio of Indy:Group:Team
When I was at a full-platoon school with a bunch of athletes, we had a full 2-hours each day with our side of the ball:
30 min run-indy
20 min group run
30 min pass-indy
20 min group pass
20 min team
60 minutes of indy, 40 minutes of group, 20 minutes of team
Been at schools where we have to go both each day, so those numbers get cut in half to fit in an hour so we can rotate to the other side of the ball for the other hour.
Any "practice" is setup with that concept. When we do other types of practices (walkthrough, chalk-talk-stalk, etc...) those are with specific purposes in mind, so those are usually full-team, or if you are a full-platoon, they are full side of the ball on one half of the field, the other side of the ball on the other half.
|
|
|
|
Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 29, 2023 12:55:50 GMT -6
Everyone plays both ways for us, so it is usually 20 min. a week, plus pre-practice is all indy work (5-10 min.). That's just the baseline/template.
Mon is JV game Var. meeting/film/walk-through in the AM,Tues- D indy, W- O indy (O/D team each day).
if we need more/less we will incorporate that in and cut team time down a bit.
|
|
|
|
Post by fballcoachg on Feb 13, 2023 19:25:11 GMT -6
Indy is in direct proportion to the quality of work done in Indy.
If a coach is struggling with his position, we absorb it and create more group work where another coach can help out or take over if needed.
|
|
|
|
Post by rsmith627 on Feb 14, 2023 5:48:21 GMT -6
Once games hit we get about 15-20 minutes of Indy on Tuesday and Wednesday. During 2 a days and camp it is longer.
Monday is film/condition
Thursday is pre-game walkthrough
|
|
|
|
Post by echoofthewhistle on Feb 15, 2023 5:30:58 GMT -6
I agree with cqmiller above, assuming your staff isn't bad, I'd argue it should take the most time. It also important for development of your bench players.
|
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Feb 16, 2023 6:12:18 GMT -6
As a OL coach the answer is, not enough!
|
|
|
|
Post by MICoach on Feb 16, 2023 6:58:33 GMT -6
As a OL coach the answer is, not enough! Seconded - when I coached OL it seemed like we'd get like 40 minutes some days and it was all pretty useful time. Coaching other positions I think you get diminishing returns faster. Depending on the gameplan for the week I felt like 10 with the TE's is enough sometimes. When I was an OC a lot of days the QB's and RB's would never have true indy time as they'd work in a group from the get go. |
|
|
|
Post by rsmith627 on Feb 16, 2023 7:14:00 GMT -6
As a OL coach the answer is, not enough! Seconded - when I coached OL it seemed like we'd get like 40 minutes some days and it was all pretty useful time. Coaching other positions I think you get diminishing returns faster. Depending on the gameplan for the week I felt like 10 with the TE's is enough sometimes. When I was an OC a lot of days the QB's and RB's would never have true indy time as they'd work in a group from the get go. For sure true of RBs. Depending on the week one of my indy periods is spent with the OL working blitz pickup, which is important for us. I did like that though because it eliminated some redundancy and some of those diminishing returns you mentioned. Ball security and our reads in our zone game are important, but you can only do that so much in a season. |
|
|
|
Post by blb on Feb 16, 2023 7:39:07 GMT -6
We did 20 minutes of Individual time every practice except Thursday ("Pre-Game").
|
|
|
|
Post by bulldogsdc on Feb 16, 2023 7:52:34 GMT -6
20-15-10
|
|
|
|
Post by Defcord on Feb 16, 2023 8:15:56 GMT -6
As a OL coach the answer is, not enough! This is the truth! |
|
|
|
Post by MICoach on Feb 16, 2023 9:12:15 GMT -6
Seconded - when I coached OL it seemed like we'd get like 40 minutes some days and it was all pretty useful time. Coaching other positions I think you get diminishing returns faster. Depending on the gameplan for the week I felt like 10 with the TE's is enough sometimes. When I was an OC a lot of days the QB's and RB's would never have true indy time as they'd work in a group from the get go. For sure true of RBs. Depending on the week one of my indy periods is spent with the OL working blitz pickup, which is important for us. I did like that though because it eliminated some redundancy and some of those diminishing returns you mentioned. Ball security and our reads in our zone game are important, but you can only do that so much in a season. Yeah we did a lot of QB run game so we'd work reads and ball security with them too. If we were chucking it all over the field it probably would've necessitated some more true QB indy time. I'm a big proponnent of pass pro as a group period. I like to split the RB's and have one group work pass pro/blitz pick up, the other at skelly or something. Flip them halfway through the period. I also really like doing this with the QB so they can learn how to move in the pocket. |
|
|
|
Post by rsmith627 on Feb 16, 2023 9:51:26 GMT -6
For sure true of RBs. Depending on the week one of my indy periods is spent with the OL working blitz pickup, which is important for us. I did like that though because it eliminated some redundancy and some of those diminishing returns you mentioned. Ball security and our reads in our zone game are important, but you can only do that so much in a season. Yeah we did a lot of QB run game so we'd work reads and ball security with them too. If we were chucking it all over the field it probably would've necessitated some more true QB indy time. I'm a big proponnent of pass pro as a group period. I like to split the RB's and have one group work pass pro/blitz pick up, the other at skelly or something. Flip them halfway through the period. I also really like doing this with the QB so they can learn how to move in the pocket. I like splitting them when possible as well. They're a big part of our passing game and need those skelly reps as well. |
|
|
|
Post by MICoach on Feb 16, 2023 11:31:24 GMT -6
Yeah we did a lot of QB run game so we'd work reads and ball security with them too. If we were chucking it all over the field it probably would've necessitated some more true QB indy time. I'm a big proponnent of pass pro as a group period. I like to split the RB's and have one group work pass pro/blitz pick up, the other at skelly or something. Flip them halfway through the period. I also really like doing this with the QB so they can learn how to move in the pocket. I like splitting them when possible as well. They're a big part of our passing game and need those skelly reps as well. See I got annoyed because at a previous school we almost never sent our backs into the pass game, and they'd just be halfassed ghost blocking guys in skelly. Complained for a couple weeks until we built in a group blitz pickup period 1-2 days a week. |
|
|
|
Post by rsmith627 on Feb 16, 2023 11:45:15 GMT -6
I like splitting them when possible as well. They're a big part of our passing game and need those skelly reps as well. See I got annoyed because at a previous school we almost never sent our backs into the pass game, and they'd just be halfassed ghost blocking guys in skelly. Complained for a couple weeks until we built in a group blitz pickup period 1-2 days a week. That's frustrating. Our RB led our team in reception yards last year, and while I don't think we'll have quite those numbers this year they'll still be an integral part about what we do. Hate the half assed pass pro stuff lol. Love blitz pickup period, and so do our backs. They've made being physical a part of their identity as a group and I love it. |
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Feb 16, 2023 12:10:26 GMT -6
As a OL coach the answer is, not enough!
Amen.... There have been Tuesdays in my career where I've told the assistants "Don't plan on seeing the fat kids for the first 40 minutes of practice, fellas."
|
|
|
|
Post by spreadattack on Feb 16, 2023 13:23:43 GMT -6
Here's a related question: What percentage of your time (whether in Indy or otherwise) are you spending doing true fundamental/individual work (i.e., stuff on air, vs. no defense, steps, etc) versus small drills/groups/etc?
One thing I have been both evolving to and thinking about - particularly informed by how basketball coaching has evolved -- is to figure out as many opportunities for "live" reaction/decisions/technique, but in controlled "small sided game" environments. One-on-one routes vs. DBs compared to just routes on air, or half line drills, etc. Doesn't mean they have to be "live," but curious how folks think about their practice time with that. Particularly because football is particularly challenging to break up into "small sided games".
|
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Feb 16, 2023 14:36:14 GMT -6
Here's a related question: What percentage of your time (whether in Indy or otherwise) are you spending doing true fundamental/individual work (i.e., stuff on air, vs. no defense, steps, etc) versus small drills/groups/etc? One thing I have been both evolving to and thinking about - particularly informed by how basketball coaching has evolved -- is to figure out as many opportunities for "live" reaction/decisions/technique, but in controlled "small sided game" environments. One-on-one routes vs. DBs compared to just routes on air, or half line drills, etc. Doesn't mean they have to be "live," but curious how folks think about their practice time with that. Particularly because football is particularly challenging to break up into "small sided games". This is a good question, I tend to think that the "small sided games" are useful, but I view them more along the lines of a small group situation as opposed to indi- though they are probably the link between individual and small group. I do think that far too often, coaches utilize "small sided games" as indy, and in essence let the game itself do the instructing of technique. I am not a fan of this. I feel there is still a place for focused and repetitive small part movement as a means of developing and maintaining proficiency (even for the veteran late in a season). EDIT- Actually, I misinterpreted "small sided games" as just one-on-one type things (which is not indy). But if controlled and coordinated correctly, there are lots of one-on-one interactions that can be utilized as indy type work |
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Feb 16, 2023 14:39:13 GMT -6
spreadattackFor us, 'indy' is for specific skills. What you are describing is 'group' work. I pretty much NEVER do a full 7on7. It turns into a $h!t-show. We will do 2 offensive players running routes vs. the 3 defensive players an do our group-work with just the 5 of them and the QB. Closer to game-situation, but still not live. Indy periods are more for: QB - stances, starts, footwork, throwing mechanics, handoff mechanics, ball security RB - stances, starts, footwork, ball skills, handoff mechanics, ball security, pass pro, run blocking WR - stances, getoffs, footwork, route running, ball skills, perimeter blocking OL - stances, steps, types of blocks, doubleteams, combos, etc... etc... etc... LOTS to do for these guys Defense - pretty much the same, but for defense. Lots of leverage, lots of tackle-technique, etc... Group periods are more for specific situations you would apply what you just did in indy Team is more game-situation, where you don't know when you are gonna need the skills, but hopefully apply them when they arise. That's how we handle it, but there are a lot of ways to do it. Some guys do nothing but team, some don't do team, and everything in-between.
|
|
|
|
Post by 44dlcoach on Feb 16, 2023 21:14:04 GMT -6
I used to coach OL and I always thought we needed more Indy time. Now I coach LBs and what it taught me is that OL coaches are a bunch if bellyachers, they have the most Indy time on the team! We do 7 on 7, the OL gets more Indy. We do special teams, the OL gets more Indy. And don't get me started on the QBs and WRs, lol.
My whole post comes from a place of jealousy in case thats not clear.
|
|
|
|
Post by Defcord on Feb 16, 2023 21:32:44 GMT -6
I used to coach OL and I always thought we needed more Indy time. Now I coach LBs and what it taught me is that OL coaches are a bunch if bellyachers, they have the most Indy time on the team! We do 7 on 7, the OL gets more Indy. We do special teams, the OL gets more Indy. And don't get me started on the QBs and WRs, lol. My whole post comes from a place of jealousy in case thats not clear. I coach DBs and OL and never feel like either have enough Indy. When I coached LBs it was a little better but I would steal reps running the scout team D. I would stand 2-3 yards behind them and coach them up every rep and see exactly what they were seeing. OCs never care what those guys are doing as long as they are lined up right and they don’t make too many plays. I’ve definitely never had an OC ask for the LBs to read a certain way so we could always work our reads which is huge. |
|
mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 220
|
Post by mc140 on Feb 17, 2023 0:16:08 GMT -6
One school I was at was 20 minutes each on Tuesday and Wednesday for both sides of ball. Practices on Tuesday and Wednesday were also three hours long. Pre-game was ten minutes for both sides of ball.
What we do where I am at now is a bit different during season. Offensive day is Tuesday (Indy,Group,Team). Defense gets last 40 minutes of practice. The DC decides what to do for those 40 minutes. Wednesday it is flipped. I have seen that time split up all possible ways depending on opponent and what we need to work on. Practices are a little over two hours.Pregame is typically 10 minutes each.
|
|
|
|
Post by spreadattack on Feb 17, 2023 8:46:50 GMT -6
spreadattack For us, 'indy' is for specific skills. What you are describing is 'group' work. I pretty much NEVER do a full 7on7. It turns into a $h!t-show. We will do 2 offensive players running routes vs. the 3 defensive players an do our group-work with just the 5 of them and the QB. Closer to game-situation, but still not live. Indy periods are more for: QB - stances, starts, footwork, throwing mechanics, handoff mechanics, ball security RB - stances, starts, footwork, ball skills, handoff mechanics, ball security, pass pro, run blocking WR - stances, getoffs, footwork, route running, ball skills, perimeter blocking OL - stances, steps, types of blocks, doubleteams, combos, etc... etc... etc... LOTS to do for these guys Defense - pretty much the same, but for defense. Lots of leverage, lots of tackle-technique, etc... Group periods are more for specific situations you would apply what you just did in indy Team is more game-situation, where you don't know when you are gonna need the skills, but hopefully apply them when they arise. That's how we handle it, but there are a lot of ways to do it. Some guys do nothing but team, some don't do team, and everything in-between. Good stuff, and basically agree. Football is such a technique driven sport, and also the nature of it (play stops every 3-6 seconds) it's different than some other more "free flowing" sports. That said, I have been trying to think about how (if possible) to spend as much time working on skills/techniques by "playing" but in controlled environments in football. The below is an example of some of the thinking for basketball; there's lots of stuff out there. The analogy is trying to get away from spending a bunch of time working on stationary right hand pound dribble, left hand pound dribble, etc., when (especially for high school and below) kids need to learn by "doing." But again, football is not basketball or other sports - so (good offseason project) trying to think of drills that (a) get a lot of reps, (b) simulate but break down a game like situation, maybe with constraints, (c) gets a lot of good technique/skill work in and (d) frankly keeps the kids engaged. coachingtoolbox.net/practice/games-based-approach-coaching-basketball.html |
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Feb 17, 2023 12:06:16 GMT -6
spreadattack For us, 'indy' is for specific skills. What you are describing is 'group' work. I pretty much NEVER do a full 7on7. It turns into a $h!t-show. We will do 2 offensive players running routes vs. the 3 defensive players an do our group-work with just the 5 of them and the QB. Closer to game-situation, but still not live. Indy periods are more for: QB - stances, starts, footwork, throwing mechanics, handoff mechanics, ball security RB - stances, starts, footwork, ball skills, handoff mechanics, ball security, pass pro, run blocking WR - stances, getoffs, footwork, route running, ball skills, perimeter blocking OL - stances, steps, types of blocks, doubleteams, combos, etc... etc... etc... LOTS to do for these guys Defense - pretty much the same, but for defense. Lots of leverage, lots of tackle-technique, etc... Group periods are more for specific situations you would apply what you just did in indy Team is more game-situation, where you don't know when you are gonna need the skills, but hopefully apply them when they arise. That's how we handle it, but there are a lot of ways to do it. Some guys do nothing but team, some don't do team, and everything in-between. As a defensive coach, I break my drills up into the following categories: - Eyes/Stance/Reads/Getoffs - Movement in Space - Block Destruction - Coverage - Tackling But its not as if each sub section only has one drill or technique being used; our DL have lots of block destruction drills during indy time, to deal with multiple types of blocks they face. Our DBs will have multiple coverage drills to work on the different techniques (or better perfect the components of one technique). |
|
