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Post by M4 on Jan 27, 2023 13:13:50 GMT -6
How have you guys gone about when you have a Goliath in your conference in terms of resources and funding? We're a proud program with regular success, but we have a new school in our area who is just head and shoulders above the conference in terms of what they have available to them (money, new school*)
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 27, 2023 14:12:08 GMT -6
Okay, this response isn't probably what you're looking for and you probably won't like it. Also I might be misreading your post, or just putting some of my personal experiences into your post. If that's the case, my apologies.
That said, the first thing you need to do is change your attitude toward the situation. Facilities and money never won a football game in the history of the game. If you start adopting the idea that you can't compete with someone based on money or facilities or whatever, your kids will adopt that and you're caught in a self fulfilling prophesy.
Sorry, but football coaches complaining about stuff like that is a pet peeve of mine. Friday nights don't have a freaking thing to do with budgets or who has a nicer looking weight room.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jan 27, 2023 14:29:29 GMT -6
We don't have a Goliath in our league, but we do in our state. Top 10 nationally on a consistent basis. I'll tell you what we've done: lost to them over and over and over again.
In all seriousness though I think you just have to let your kids know that you're expecting to compete and perform as well as you can, regardless of the opponent. Sports are about competition, if the other team is great then your kids have a great opportunity in front of them to compete among the best.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jan 27, 2023 14:59:10 GMT -6
For public schools I'd generally agree that a crazy amount of resources and funding aren't an obstacle that can't be overcome. If this is a private school with crazy resources and a desire to be good, they're going to be/get good.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 27, 2023 15:09:49 GMT -6
For public schools I'd generally agree that a crazy amount of resources and funding aren't an obstacle that can't be overcome. If this is a private school with crazy resources and a desire to be good, they're going to be/get good. I'll agree that there is a major difference public/private.
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Jan 27, 2023 15:47:15 GMT -6
How big is the gap between you and them is the question?
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Post by coachwoodall on Jan 27, 2023 16:14:16 GMT -6
Been coaching in public schools, and coaching against/with the 'haves'.
The biggest thing is to ignore it.
Make Monday a Monday, Tuesday a Tuesady, etc... and plow through.
EVERYONE will appreciate that in the long run.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 27, 2023 16:17:07 GMT -6
I can't really comment on the funding/resource aspect but I can provide two examples of how we dealt with a powerhouse program in our state. This program is a monster and I imagine they define not making the semis as a "down year".
In 2016, we knew we were outmatched in every way, shape and form by this team. We came in chucking and ducking. We went down by four scores by the end of the second quarter and there was no coming back.. We continued to throw the ball around, turned the ball over and lost huge. It was exceptionally embarrassing as we were at home. We lost 63-8 and their JV hung 14 on us.
The next year, we had a new HC who wasn't going to let that happen again. We were just as outmatched as the previous year and it had the potential to get real ugly. The new HC made en edict; run the ball, take plenty of time between snaps and chew up that clock if they went up by three scores. We played a pretty tough quarter and a half but the flood gates came open and they went up by three scores. We ran out the second half and lost 35-16.
Some folks accused us of "quitting" in 2017. But, those same people wanted our heads on a pike after the 63-7 loss. So, screw 'em.
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Post by coachdubyah on Jan 27, 2023 20:01:55 GMT -6
I feel strongly about this and will post later…posting now to follow.
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Post by fantom on Jan 27, 2023 21:58:51 GMT -6
How have you guys gone about when you have a Goliath in your conference in terms of resources and funding? We're a proud program with regular success, but we have a new school in our area who is just head and shoulders above the conference in terms of what they have available to them (money, new school*) What do you mean by "new school"? New in your league or a brand new school?
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Post by blb on Jan 28, 2023 8:16:38 GMT -6
There is nothing you can do about the resources or players anybody else has.
So focus on maximizing those that you have ("Control those things over which you have control").
Also - Lou Holtz once said "Run an offense that gives you a chance to beat the best team on your schedule."
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 28, 2023 8:53:39 GMT -6
There is nothing you can do about the resources or players anybody else has. So focus on maximizing those that you have ("Control those things over which you have control"). Also - Lou Holtz once said "Run an offense that gives you a chance to beat the best team on your schedule." Lou Holtz also said “make sure you take that offense to a new school before they can trace the NCAA violations to you at the old one”. To address the OP - depending on the definition of goliath- is it a regionally strong team, a team that made it to the semis the last 5 years, a team ranked nationally year after year etc- there isnt too much one can do at the HS level. Unfortunately, some have figured out it is possible to play a different game at the HS level than their opponents- and they seem they enjoy knowing in August that realistically only 1 or 2 teams in the state MIGHT POSSIBLY have a chance to compete with them. In game strategies such as bleeding the clock are going to be key, also using film in the offseason to identify weaknessss (probably physical) and provide motivation to increase physical attributes may help. But in the end, if you are coaching kids who go to high school and okay football, and their program is full of kids who go to THAT high school TO play football… its tough. Thinking about this a bit further- I find it amusing that so many on this sight seem to have a distain for NFL football. Sure it is different in that it is fairly homogenous schematically (at least on a superficial level). - but it is also the most competitive football in the country. Contrast that with schoolboy football where often one can look at a schedule and easily identify many of the outcomes before the season starts
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Post by freezeoption on Jan 28, 2023 9:38:46 GMT -6
Yes NFL is the best around, it should be when you can pick who is on your team and pay them millions of dollars. The real coaching is when you have 10 players out for a 8 man team and one is a 300 pound down syndrome kid that has seizures before games and plays on skates all night and you have to play a lineman at receiver because he dislocated his shoulder but if he doesn't play the whole team doesn't play.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 28, 2023 10:07:59 GMT -6
The NFL ought to be competitive, the whole thing is rigged through the parity model to ensure it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 28, 2023 10:15:03 GMT -6
The NFL ought to be competitive, the whole thing is rigged through the parity model to ensure it. and?
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 28, 2023 10:54:59 GMT -6
The NFL ought to be competitive, the whole thing is rigged through the parity model to ensure it. and? I mean, if that's your thing, have at it.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 28, 2023 13:03:01 GMT -6
How have you guys gone about when you have a Goliath in your conference in terms of resources and funding? We're a proud program with regular success, but we have a new school in our area who is just head and shoulders above the conference in terms of what they have available to them (money, new school*) We have that situation here too. We are just outside that invisible border for the oil money. Our neighboring district (relative term here- 60 miles away) has a new turf field, new track… now a new school. It hasn’t improved their program… they are OK... kind of a middle of the pack team. The school up the road (another 60 mi. or so) has beautiful facilities. Their practice gym is bigger than our competition gym. For gym sports (BB, VB, etc.) they play in a 5500 seat arena. It looks like a Division 2 college... and they have really struggled. Part of it is they had to move up a class for most sports and have to do so despite a somewhat transient student population, but in football, minus some readjustment that moved some smaller schools out (us included), they’ve been in the same class for a while and they won 2 games this year (surpassing their win total for the last four years) and one was against a new school who had no seniors. Before the oil patch traffic, both of these schools has crummy facilities like we have. And both of them were pretty good. The second school I mentioned won several state titles through the 80s – early 2000s. I always remind our guys that when Rocky was training in a dirt alley, chasing a chicken in the grey sweatshirt with the holes in it, he won the title. When he got the new, fancy gym that had the gold ropes around the ring Clubber Lang beat his @ss. We kind of embrace the dungeon (we just need a larger one). I remember a few years ago we had a former player come back from college for a few days before he had to report back to pre-season camp. He was a big weight room guy. He told me he went to his friend’s house in another town (not a very good program there) one weekend and was raving about how nice their weight room was etc. He then said “Yeah it’s real nice… I guess they just don’t know how to use it.”
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 29, 2023 17:29:04 GMT -6
I mean, if that's your thing, have at it. Not sure why anyone would prefer a system where most of the competitions are not between two relatively even teams? Clearly creating such parity isn't really possible in school based football. I was just pointing out that many would seem to rather watch a district bottom dweller run the flexbone team get pummeled by a district leading wing T team 42-7 because they are outclassed than watch a 4 win NFL Team take an 11 win Divisional leader into overtime.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 29, 2023 18:13:27 GMT -6
I mean, if that's your thing, have at it. Not sure why anyone would prefer a system where most of the competitions are not between two relatively even teams? Clearly creating such parity isn't really possible in school based football. I was just pointing out that many would seem to rather watch a district bottom dweller run the flexbone team get pummeled by a district leading wing T team 42-7 because they are outclassed than watch a 4 win NFL Team take an 11 win Divisional leader into overtime. You're right. I definitely prefer a league that penalizes greatness in exchange for a false sense of fans' hope so they'll throw more money at your dumbed down, terrible product. It's fantastic.
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Post by fantom on Jan 29, 2023 18:40:28 GMT -6
Not sure why anyone would prefer a system where most of the competitions are not between two relatively even teams? Clearly creating such parity isn't really possible in school based football. I was just pointing out that many would seem to rather watch a district bottom dweller run the flexbone team get pummeled by a district leading wing T team 42-7 because they are outclassed than watch a 4 win NFL Team take an 11 win Divisional leader into overtime. You're right. I definitely prefer a league that penalizes greatness in exchange for a false sense of fans' hope so they'll throw more money at your dumbed down, terrible product. It's fantastic. I'll bite: Instead of "penalizing greatness" what should they do?
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Post by 33coach on Jan 29, 2023 19:09:44 GMT -6
ignore the opponent, quit thinking about what you dont have or do have, line up your shot and take it...
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 29, 2023 19:19:10 GMT -6
Not sure why anyone would prefer a system where most of the competitions are not between two relatively even teams? Clearly creating such parity isn't really possible in school based football. I was just pointing out that many would seem to rather watch a district bottom dweller run the flexbone team get pummeled by a district leading wing T team 42-7 because they are outclassed than watch a 4 win NFL Team take an 11 win Divisional leader into overtime. You're right. I definitely prefer a league that penalizes greatness in exchange for a false sense of fans' hope so they'll throw more money at your dumbed down, terrible product. It's fantastic. Well, given that you aren't in the entertainment industry... You are probably right. HS ball is probably a much better "product" as evidenced by St John Bosco's 3 games (out of 14) with less than a 25 point differential. Or a Duncanville Tx program with a net point differential of +469 over 15 games (a 31 point per game difference) St. Thomas Aquinas (Fla) also enjoyed a 31 point per game average differential. Sounds much better.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 29, 2023 19:30:55 GMT -6
You're right. I definitely prefer a league that penalizes greatness in exchange for a false sense of fans' hope so they'll throw more money at your dumbed down, terrible product. It's fantastic. I'll bite: Instead of "penalizing greatness" what should they do? Stop making rules to penalize it? Every rule the NFL has put in since Pete Rozelle is designed to keep all 32 teams equally crappy to keep that cash flowing. Salary cap, drafting, free agency rules, hell, even in game rules. It's a giant scam.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 29, 2023 19:31:40 GMT -6
You're right. I definitely prefer a league that penalizes greatness in exchange for a false sense of fans' hope so they'll throw more money at your dumbed down, terrible product. It's fantastic. Well, given that you aren't in the entertainment industry... You are probably right. HS ball is probably a much better "product" as evidenced by St John Bosco's 3 games (out of 14) with less than a 25 point differential. Or a Duncanville Tx program with a net point differential of +469 over 15 games (a 31 point per game difference) St. Thomas Aquinas (Fla) also enjoyed a 31 point per game average differential. Sounds much better. God damn it. I did it again. Fell into the trap of arguing with you. God damn me.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 29, 2023 19:43:48 GMT -6
Well, given that you aren't in the entertainment industry... You are probably right. HS ball is probably a much better "product" as evidenced by St John Bosco's 3 games (out of 14) with less than a 25 point differential. Or a Duncanville Tx program with a net point differential of +469 over 15 games (a 31 point per game difference) St. Thomas Aquinas (Fla) also enjoyed a 31 point per game average differential. Sounds much better. God damn it. I did it again. Fell into the trap of arguing with you. God damn me. It is only a trap because quite frankly, half of the "grumpy old man" type things you post are simply ridiculous. I mean look at yourself...you claim that measures to increase fan interest and involvement and thus income in a BUSINESS is "a scam" In another thread you accuse someone who is questioning their relationship choices and future of being a psychopath. Trust me, very few if any of the well respected and sensible members of this forum would call much of what you post in this vein "arguing" anymore than they would consider a wolf howling at the moon "arguing" Maybe coachpithy would think the stuff you posted was a constructed argument. It is one thing to say that one doesn't enjoy NFL football for whatever reason. But to argue that it is not the most competitive football across the board, or that somehow measures to ensure that constitute a "scam"...are just objectively foolish.
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Post by carookie on Jan 29, 2023 21:16:23 GMT -6
Yes NFL is the best around, it should be when you can pick who is on your team and pay them millions of dollars. The real coaching is when you have 10 players out for a 8 man team and one is a 300 pound down syndrome kid that has seizures before games and plays on skates all night and you have to play a lineman at receiver because he dislocated his shoulder but if he doesn't play the whole team doesn't play. Wow, I'm pretty sure we are the same person, because I have been in that exact same position.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 29, 2023 21:21:30 GMT -6
God damn it. I did it again. Fell into the trap of arguing with you. God damn me. It is only a trap because quite frankly, half of the "grumpy old man" type things you post are simply ridiculous. I mean look at yourself...you claim that measures to increase fan interest and involvement and thus income in a BUSINESS is "a scam" In another thread you accuse someone who is questioning their relationship choices and future of being a psychopath. Trust me, very few if any of the well respected and sensible members of this forum would call much of what you post in this vein "arguing" anymore than they would consider a wolf howling at the moon "arguing" Maybe coachpithy would think the stuff you posted was a constructed argument. It is one thing to say that one doesn't enjoy NFL football for whatever reason. But to argue that it is not the most competitive football across the board, or that somehow measures to ensure that constitute a "scam"...are just objectively foolish. Oh no, you called me names. How will I ever live with myself?
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Post by freezeoption on Jan 29, 2023 21:38:39 GMT -6
Yes NFL is the best around, it should be when you can pick who is on your team and pay them millions of dollars. The real coaching is when you have 10 players out for a 8 man team and one is a 300 pound down syndrome kid that has seizures before games and plays on skates all night and you have to play a lineman at receiver because he dislocated his shoulder but if he doesn't play the whole team doesn't play. Wow, I'm pretty sure we are the same person, because I have been in that exact same position.
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Post by freezeoption on Jan 29, 2023 21:41:32 GMT -6
Well if your my twin I could use some help, got some teenage girls I need help raising, dogs and cats to take care of and a wife that doesn't really like me.
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Post by carookie on Jan 29, 2023 21:49:06 GMT -6
Well if your my twin I could use some help, got some teenage girls I need help raising, dogs and cats to take care of and a wife that doesn't really like me. You make it a teen son and tween daughter then once again we are spot on.
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