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Post by sweep26 on Jan 26, 2023 12:40:15 GMT -6
If you are taking over a program that is "Down"...excluding the Weight Program and X's & O's...where do you start?
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Post by blb on Jan 26, 2023 12:50:26 GMT -6
If you are taking over a program that is "Down"...excluding the Weight Program and X's & O's...where do you start? 1. Hiring the best staff possible. 2. Building enthusiasm and confidence in players.
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Jan 26, 2023 13:00:16 GMT -6
Getting a favorable schedule
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 26, 2023 13:08:05 GMT -6
Define down. Like, used to be good, hit a rough patch or has never won a playoff game? I think the answers differ based on those situations.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 26, 2023 13:09:47 GMT -6
Define down. Like, used to be good, hit a rough patch or has never won a playoff game? I think the answers differ based on those situations.
Agreed. There's "down" programs and then there's "We barely have enough kids to play a varsity schedule" bad.
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Post by bulldogsdc on Jan 26, 2023 13:37:39 GMT -6
Swag.....
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Post by sweep26 on Jan 26, 2023 13:48:39 GMT -6
Define down. Like, used to be good, hit a rough patch or has never won a playoff game? I think the answers differ based on those situations. Not good, never been real good. However, they do have decent numbers on their roster.
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Post by silkyice on Jan 26, 2023 13:59:44 GMT -6
I know you said excluding weight program, but that is 100% the key ingredient to changing the program.
That, and stop beating yourself. Don't do stupid things.
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Post by echoofthewhistle on Jan 26, 2023 15:00:27 GMT -6
That, and stop beating yourself. Don't do stupid things. I'd try to figure out who can snap and who can kick before preseason. Been on some bad teams and that been a common issue.
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Post by freezeoption on Jan 26, 2023 18:52:29 GMT -6
Take a look at what has been their downfall. Why did the guy before you leave. I'm big into looking at all of the reasons. There could be several reasons why not successful. I'm sure you looked at the schedule. Most cases you can't hire a lot of coaches and what you have is usually what it is. Look seriously into schedule. Getting some wins somewhere builds confidence. Need more info to help.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 27, 2023 11:08:34 GMT -6
Disclaimer; I've worked in struggling programs but I've never turned one around. So, take my two cents for what it's worth.
Hurdles:
1. Numbers. You've said that's not an issue so, IME, you're in a good spot.
2. In-season standards and expectations. Each of the struggling programs I've been involved in had few, firm standards for in-season practice attendance, punctuality and overall discipline. I suggest establishing those expectations soon; lay them out in a spring parent/player meeting. Don't paint yourself into corners with rules but have firm policies in place and make sure that everyone (players, parents, etc..) know that those policies will be enforced.
3. Off-season standards. Get the kids in the weight room. Two to three days of lifting, plyos and SAQ work will go a long way. Get a schedule in the kids' hands quickly so they know what off-season activities are planned and when. Weight room time, camps, 7v7, etc..etc.. I suggest a minimalist approach for this hurdle; the weight room, one camp away from campus in the summer and the "standard" school camp on campus.
4. Take a long hard look at the staff. Honestly, in my last HC gig, I made a mistake by simply hiring back most of the previous staff. I took the administration's recommendations and it didn't turn out well. I should've opened up all of the positions for interview and been more thorough in hiring the staff. In reality, if I'd replaced ONE dude with another interested candidate, our season would've been better.
IMO, you'll do well if these four hurdles can be addressed and overcome in the first year.
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Post by 53 on Jan 27, 2023 11:41:26 GMT -6
How old is the program?
If they’ve never been good and have been around for awhile, that’s generally a community issue.
Hard to turn a program around when the ones raising the kids have no standards or accountability. You’ll be the {censored} they try to run off before changing
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Post by sweep26 on Jan 27, 2023 14:13:01 GMT -6
Does anyone do anything in particular to develop team unity/connection?
We all know how important it is for everyone to feel a sense of belonging. I never played on a great team, either in high school or college...and as I think back, those teams were always very cliquish.
I know first handed how important team chemistry is. I have coached a number of undefeated high school teams...once coached a NJCAA National Championship Team. I knew from day one, when we sat down to have our first meal together, the way they inter-acted that we had a very special group. However, I must confess...I never did anything specifically to develop team comradery....it just happened...the right kids. We worked them hard and tried to do everything that we could to help them succeed.
I have been a head coach for a number of years, nearly all of my research in the past has been focused on X's & O's and S&C. I now realize how important that the team chemistry factor is and have spent much of this past year studying this phase of the game...I need to learn more!
So...again if there are any specific strategies that you guys have regarding developing team unity/connectiveness please share.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 27, 2023 14:14:14 GMT -6
That, and stop beating yourself. Don't do stupid things. I'd try to figure out who can snap and who can kick before preseason. Been on some bad teams and that been a common issue. Meh, don't punt or kick extra points. Problem solved.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 27, 2023 14:18:25 GMT -6
Define down. Like, used to be good, hit a rough patch or has never won a playoff game? I think the answers differ based on those situations. Not good, never been real good. However, they do have decent numbers on their roster. I think you have to do a lot of psychological work. Usually in losing programs the biggest issue is the 6 inches between their ears. If you have the ability to do so, I'd also get rid of any of the previous staff and distance the program from any "traditions" or really any part of their past. Sometimes, you gotta burn it to the ground to rebuild it.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 28, 2023 7:10:57 GMT -6
Does anyone do anything in particular to develop team unity/connection? So...again if there are any specific strategies that you guys have regarding developing team unity/connectiveness please share. Some random things we have done over the years to develop team unity (and other qualities): 1. O-Line BBQ (I always want these guys to feel wanted, needed, important). 2. Workout teams- this is for the summer. We split up captains (more on that in a bit) and have them draft their teams. We do a serpentine draft so it can be as even as possible (so 1-2-3-4-4-3-2-1 etc.). They get points for summer attendance, weight room progress, film study after team camp, attendance at our camp and community service work. They get to name their own teams… I can veto the name and they get one more chance otherwise I will name their team. I need to use Urban Dictionary just to check… (They are usually pretty good about laying off the euphemisms). This is always a big deal to them because the winning team gets shirts with everyone’s name on it- plus they will have less maintenance responsibilities (locker room clean up, taking stuff to the field, etc.) The last place team has an extra week of that… so they do a pretty good job of policing themselves. All of our team responsibilities are handled by workout teams except two weeks when it is done by the senior class. The seniors do the first week to show how things should be done and they do the week of the state championship game if we are fortunate enough to make it. 3. Mentoring program- we have an upper class player paired up with a freshman (by position) to kind of teach them the ropes a bit. This is pretty informal and I don’t have any rules regarding it other than “help them be better”. Often times I see the older guys spending time with the young ones, eating lunch with them, etc. 4. Captains- We had 9 captains this past year. The most we’ve had is 18. Any junior or senior in good standing (not ineligible due to grades or training violations) may apply. They fill out an application and write a letter. From time to time I’ll get asked why we have so many captains and not just 4. I say the same thing every time- if you have 18 leaders, why would you not want them all to lead? I do caution them that it is a lot of responsibility and there are expectations- and if I ever have to demote them from their rank as captain, they will not get that position back that year. RE: Taking over down programs- I have taken over two programs that were “down”. One was a train wreck (4th coach in 4 years) and the other was just a stagnant, middle of the road program. The most important thing aside from the weight room (which didn’t exist at either place) was discipline. Nothing major… just being on time, taking care of equipment… little things (that really are big things). At both places I did the same thing I do everywhere- have the seniors set the rules (which is also me guiding them to put in rules I want too), then hold them accountable for the rules they set.
At both places the new regime was tested early, at both places they learned it wasn't just lip service, and both places made very noticeable improvements pretty quickly.
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 28, 2023 8:06:58 GMT -6
How old is the program? If they’ve never been good and have been around for awhile, that’s generally a community issue. Hard to turn a program around when the ones raising the kids have no standards or accountability. You’ll be the {censored} they try to run off before changing This was my first thought, too. Community and admin have a large share of a failing program.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 28, 2023 8:07:58 GMT -6
2. Workout teams- this is for the summer. Just as a counter point- if it works for you, that's great. I did this for two years and it was a disaster. Maybe it was because I was never super into it and the kids caught that, maybe I just didn't have the personality to make it work, but both I and the kids ended up hating it. Saw it at a clinic and thought I'd give it a shot as we had just had a real tough year (went 3-6, lost 3 games by a combined 4 points). Also had several leadership and character issues on the team. Actually went pretty OK the first year, but the second year it was a train wreck. I will never do it again.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 28, 2023 10:04:31 GMT -6
Just as a counter point- if it works for you, that's great. I did this for two years and it was a disaster. We've had some things (not) work out like that too. Over the years I've tried some things that didn't go over very well either. I don't remember too many disasters... but quite a few things that just didn't seem worth the effort.
To be honest, I could do away with the workout groups (I kind of tried to last year... but they kept asking "when is the draft?"), so the guys look forward to it and already have team names... so as long as I am here we'll probably keep doing it. And to be honest, it has gone well for us.
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 28, 2023 10:06:25 GMT -6
Just as a counter point- if it works for you, that's great. I did this for two years and it was a disaster. We've had some things (not) work out like that too. Over the years I've tried some things that didn't go over very well either. I don't remember too many disasters... but quite a few things that just didn't seem worth the effort.
To be honest, I could do away with the workout groups (I kind of tried to last year... but they kept asking "when is the draft?"), so the guys look forward to it and already have team names... so as long as I am here we'll probably keep doing it. And to be honest, it has gone well for us.
Like I said, if it works, I'm not here to discourage anyone from it. Just my experiences. The mere mention of it gives me heartburn.
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Post by cqmiller on Jan 29, 2023 12:20:18 GMT -6
Number One = FIND ADULTS TO HELP YOU
That has been my biggest mistake at the 2 places I took trying to turn it around. Assistant coaches, teachers, parents, etc... I did a better job my 2nd time around getting guys on my staff on-board, but at the end of the day, if you don't want to work yourself to death, you need to find people willing to do a lot of stuff for free to help you out.
I took over at 2 programs that were 3-7 at best for a decade prior to me taking over and was able to get some progress, but never able to get over the hump. I was working too long, too hard, and without enough help to make it happen. I just resigned about a month ago from the second job and with a 10-30 record, I was on-pace to be the 3rd all-time winningest coach in that program within a year, but I just couldn't continue.
Find an assistant who wants to run the weightroom and let them do it all... Find a parent/teacher who wants to be in charge of team dinners and let them do it all...
The programs around here that are always good, have an overwhelming support system from the community. I've had HCs find out some of the stuff I have had to do as the HC at the place I just left and they are all SHOCKED...
The kids will respond if the parents are pushing them to be a part of the program and are supportive of the program.
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Post by sweep26 on Jan 29, 2023 16:17:00 GMT -6
Number One = FIND ADULTS TO HELP YOU That has been my biggest mistake at the 2 places I took trying to turn it around. Assistant coaches, teachers, parents, etc... I did a better job my 2nd time around getting guys on my staff on-board, but at the end of the day, if you don't want to work yourself to death, you need to find people willing to do a lot of stuff for free to help you out. I took over at 2 programs that were 3-7 at best for a decade prior to me taking over and was able to get some progress, but never able to get over the hump. I was working too long, too hard, and without enough help to make it happen. I just resigned about a month ago from the second job and with a 10-30 record, I was on-pace to be the 3rd all-time winningest coach in that program within a year, but I just couldn't continue. Find an assistant who wants to run the weightroom and let them do it all... Find a parent/teacher who wants to be in charge of team dinners and let them do it all... The programs around here that are always good, have an overwhelming support system from the community. I've had HCs find out some of the stuff I have had to do as the HC at the place I just left and they are all SHOCKED... The kids will respond if the parents are pushing them to be a part of the program and are supportive of the program. Excellent post Coach!! Everything that you say makes so much sense...genuine commitment from both the Administration and a core group of parents is vital. Your last sentence may be the one of the most imortant factors in rebuilding projects.
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coachtconkle
Freshmen Member
"Perfection is not attainable; but, if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" – V. Lombardi
Posts: 70
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Post by coachtconkle on Feb 1, 2023 12:22:35 GMT -6
I have nothing of substance to add, but I will say that there is a wealth of information and tips that have been shared to this point that when compiled they are a great guide!
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Post by knightfan64 on Feb 3, 2023 4:18:39 GMT -6
Lot of things on here are fantastic! One big thing I’d say is find a key non X’s and O’s deficiency and attempt to fix that. That may take a year or two. Sometimes you adjust in different ways. For me when I took over a down program I was a power run game guy. Discovered 2 years in that wasn’t going to help us compete against stronger, more physical teams. So we had to play a bit differently. We weren’t as strong as our opponents but we got stronger. Where we really targeted was our overall team competitiveness. We’d compete compete compete in the off-season in all sorts of ways and kids got more confident in competing and being in uncomfortable situations and our staff was able to find our real leaders through it
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Post by raider92 on Feb 3, 2023 7:02:45 GMT -6
Best advice I've ever heard is to "stop sucking" which sounds flippant but is actually a great way to look at things. What does the program do currently that is associated with teams that suck? Are there daddy ball problems that can pop up in bad programs when it's all off campus coaches? Are practices unplanned or disorganized? Weight room not managed well? Playbook as thick as the bible?
Stop all that stuff. Nothing fancy is needed. The US military wants full spectrum dominance, to be the absolute best in every area. You might want that eventually but right now you need full spectrum competence. Run solid practices, maintain rules and discipline, get the weight room rolling and being done properly, have a sound scheme on both sides that is simple enough to play fast, etc.
Just dont do the things that teams who suck do. Maybe you wont find that very profound or helpful but it certainly helped me look at things differently when I took over my positions. I wanted the world but that's not realistic in a program that's been down
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Post by bigmoot2 on Feb 3, 2023 20:45:23 GMT -6
Best advice I've ever heard is to "stop sucking" which sounds flippant but is actually a great way to look at things. What does the program do currently that is associated with teams that suck? Are there daddy ball problems that can pop up in bad programs when it's all off campus coaches? Are practices unplanned or disorganized? Weight room not managed well? Playbook as thick as the bible? Stop all that stuff. Nothing fancy is needed. The US military wants full spectrum dominance, to be the absolute best in every area. You might want that eventually but right now you need full spectrum competence. Run solid practices, maintain rules and discipline, get the weight room rolling and being done properly, have a sound scheme on both sides that is simple enough to play fast, etc. Just dont do the things that teams who suck do. Maybe you wont find that very profound or helpful but it certainly helped me look at things differently when I took over my positions. I wanted the world but that's not realistic in a program that's been down Not that easy sometimes...my last job, we sucked. Why? We could line 11 guys up in c gap and still could not stop off tackle runs.
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Post by raider92 on Feb 3, 2023 20:57:14 GMT -6
Best advice I've ever heard is to "stop sucking" which sounds flippant but is actually a great way to look at things. What does the program do currently that is associated with teams that suck? Are there daddy ball problems that can pop up in bad programs when it's all off campus coaches? Are practices unplanned or disorganized? Weight room not managed well? Playbook as thick as the bible? Stop all that stuff. Nothing fancy is needed. The US military wants full spectrum dominance, to be the absolute best in every area. You might want that eventually but right now you need full spectrum competence. Run solid practices, maintain rules and discipline, get the weight room rolling and being done properly, have a sound scheme on both sides that is simple enough to play fast, etc. Just dont do the things that teams who suck do. Maybe you wont find that very profound or helpful but it certainly helped me look at things differently when I took over my positions. I wanted the world but that's not realistic in a program that's been down Not that easy sometimes...my last job, we sucked. Why? We could line 11 guys up in c gap and still could not stop off tackle runs. Certainly not easy, it's not a guarantee that you wont suck. If your guys cant do it they cant do it but the idea is to run the program in a way that gives them the best chance they can get. Their best might still be terrible though. I've been there, 0-9 my 1st year as an assistant.
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Post by mariner42 on Feb 4, 2023 9:05:41 GMT -6
Best advice I've ever heard is to "stop sucking" which sounds flippant but is actually a great way to look at things. What does the program do currently that is associated with teams that suck? Are there daddy ball problems that can pop up in bad programs when it's all off campus coaches? Are practices unplanned or disorganized? Weight room not managed well? Playbook as thick as the bible? Stop all that stuff. Nothing fancy is needed. The US military wants full spectrum dominance, to be the absolute best in every area. You might want that eventually but right now you need full spectrum competence. Run solid practices, maintain rules and discipline, get the weight room rolling and being done properly, have a sound scheme on both sides that is simple enough to play fast, etc. Just dont do the things that teams who suck do. Maybe you wont find that very profound or helpful but it certainly helped me look at things differently when I took over my positions. I wanted the world but that's not realistic in a program that's been down Stop doing/eliminate the stuff that loses games first, then start working on winning games. More games are lost than won.
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Post by sweep26 on Feb 4, 2023 10:31:12 GMT -6
Best advice I've ever heard is to "stop sucking" which sounds flippant but is actually a great way to look at things. What does the program do currently that is associated with teams that suck? Are there daddy ball problems that can pop up in bad programs when it's all off campus coaches? Are practices unplanned or disorganized? Weight room not managed well? Playbook as thick as the bible? Stop all that stuff. Nothing fancy is needed. The US military wants full spectrum dominance, to be the absolute best in every area. You might want that eventually but right now you need full spectrum competence. Run solid practices, maintain rules and discipline, get the weight room rolling and being done properly, have a sound scheme on both sides that is simple enough to play fast, etc. Just dont do the things that teams who suck do. Maybe you wont find that very profound or helpful but it certainly helped me look at things differently when I took over my positions. I wanted the world but that's not realistic in a program that's been down Good one Coach!! You have obiously read the book "Break Free From Suckville"... I have not read it. Just learned that there is such a book...and just ordered it from Amazon.
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Post by raider92 on Feb 4, 2023 10:51:07 GMT -6
Best advice I've ever heard is to "stop sucking" which sounds flippant but is actually a great way to look at things. What does the program do currently that is associated with teams that suck? Are there daddy ball problems that can pop up in bad programs when it's all off campus coaches? Are practices unplanned or disorganized? Weight room not managed well? Playbook as thick as the bible? Stop all that stuff. Nothing fancy is needed. The US military wants full spectrum dominance, to be the absolute best in every area. You might want that eventually but right now you need full spectrum competence. Run solid practices, maintain rules and discipline, get the weight room rolling and being done properly, have a sound scheme on both sides that is simple enough to play fast, etc. Just dont do the things that teams who suck do. Maybe you wont find that very profound or helpful but it certainly helped me look at things differently when I took over my positions. I wanted the world but that's not realistic in a program that's been down Good one Coach!! You have obiously read the book "Break Free From Suckville"... I have not read it. Just learned that there is such a book...and just ordered it from Amazon. I've actually never heard of it. It's just what my old HS coach told me he did when he took over at the school I went to
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